354 réponses à ce sujet

[clennon8]

The stuff you pro-Synths say *genuinely* disturbs me. It's like meeting an old friend that you used to hang out and drink a few beers with, but now he has shaved his head, sworn off alcohol and meat, and talks in a soft monotone.

Modifié par clennon8, 30 janvier 2013 - 09:59 .

[Red Panda]

clennon8 wrote...

The stuff you pro-Synths say *genuinely* disturbs me. It's like meeting an old friend that you used to hang out and drink a few beers with, but now he has shaved his head, sworn off alcohol and meat, and talks in a soft monotone.

Have a little faith.

[Ryoten]

Faust1979 wrote...

On my second play through I chose synthesis and it was an even better ending than destruction. From what I've been seeing from playing the game back to back, the people that have been saying the endings don't fit with the games are completely wrong! these endings have been great and I liked seeing all the races I helped and the wars I stopped bring people to together.

Beautifully sickening.

[evilgummybear]

destructions the way to go.

Reset all tech & start all over

Modifié par evilgummybear, 30 janvier 2013 - 11:51 .

[KevShep]

evilgummybear wrote...

destructions the way to go.

Reset all tech & start all over

This^ Destory is the only way that OUR future will be just that...OURs.

The less we have of reapers influence the better. Destroy does just that...Gives us a future that we deserve!...more importantly, a future that we have EARNED!

Modifié par KevShep, 31 janvier 2013 - 01:12 .

[Hurbster]

You pro synthesis peeps need to play Deus Ex:Invisible War to see synthesis done right. It's still no valid platform to build a sequel but still better than the nonsensical rip-off rubbish we got.

[Wayning_Star]

bored trolls with buzz words.. comon you guys/gals, you can DIS sythesis bettern'n that..

(well, maybe not, but I'm hoping you keep up the way your goin..proves Synthesis as canon..)

[Shelondias]

I liked it too.
I'm intrigued as to the questions it left- namely just how the abominations the reapers made feel about it all. Can't be just one really surprised husk after all.

[Wayning_Star]

Zondergrod wrote...

I liked it too.
I'm intrigued as to the questions it left- namely just how the abominations the reapers made feel about it all. Can't be just one really surprised husk after all.

they got nowhere to go but up.. or so it seems from posts about them..as second or less class citizens.. sad really.

[Auintus]

Zondergrod wrote...

I liked it too.
I'm intrigued as to the questions it left- namely just how the abominations the reapers made feel about it all. Can't be just one really surprised husk after all.

That husk is my new best friend. I call him Leon.

Seriously though, I once started a thread on that topic alone: the fate of the Reaper faction troops. I just hope that they weren't restored to who they were before.

[ziyon conqueror]

Synthesis is not a good ending without Shepard in it. It made me sad the first and only time I completed the game

[Nimpe]

I thought the EDI voice over was sweet, anyways.

[Geomon19]

I don't see how anyone can watch the newly awakened Husk look around himself with new awareness and think, "Man, that's just beautiful."

[RiptideX1090]

Wayning_Star wrote...

now Edi has a force of will, but that will is to be thrown away in destroy, cause of the misinformation/lack of information as to the risk benefit ratio of synthesis. We know Edi is someone, but not worth saving if synthesis is to be chosen?

so much for self determination...just to get even with a broken machine mind...that can be repaired/replaced via other choices.. Glad we're just being human and not playing deity of the week.

It's not about getting even, though shutting up that stupid little plot contrivance certainly feels good. It's about making the best decision you can with what you're given.

So lets look at our options.

Synthesis, the choice that has no explanation for what it does or how it does it. All we know is it will stop synthetics and organics from going to war. We're never told how it does this, besides some vague BS about people having tech in them and that somehow leading to Synthetics having understanding. How or why having cybernetic implants changes anything is never explained, how it happens is never explained, how precisely this solves the conflict is never explained, and on that front, what conflict is there at this point? The only ones we're in conflict with are the Reapers. Not the Geth, not EDI, nor any other Synthetic. Just the Reapers. And why in the hell should we make peace with them? Why should we take this option that dramatically alters every living thing in the galaxy without their consent and leaves the Reapers, the most powerful force in the entire galaxy, alive and with the will to do whatever they please?

Control isn't much better, you're just replacing one monster with another. Paragon or Renegade doesn't even matter here, they're both saying the exact same thing, that they'll enforce peace and anyone who dissents is going to get crushed. You're doing the Catalyst's job, you're just not doing it in Cycle's anymore, now you're policing the entire galaxy to keep this supposed problem from happening. And this is monumentally dangerous. What if someone else uploaded themselves into the Reapers like Shepard did? What if the AI goes mad? More to the point, the entire galaxy becomes a police state, and anyone who doesn't go with what Shepard or The Many want don't get to have a say, and if they dissent, they get obliterated.

Destroy is the only course of action where you're not bowing out to the Reaper's wishes or leaving them around to be abused later. The Reapers are unbelievably dangerous, led by the Catalyst or controlled by Shepard, either way they're going to be the ones running the galaxy. And who the hell wants that?

If EDI and the geth have to bite it, too ****ing bad. We already lost Legion, Thane, Tarquinn, Mordin, Anderson, what's one more? As for the geth, they can be rebuilt, so what if they go offline for a little while? We proved peace was possible, Tali even states they were synthesizing with the quarians already of their own volition, we don't need to force it on everyone in the galaxy against their will. We don't need the Reapers keeping the geth in check and policing the galaxy, indoctrinating **** wherever they go, we can do it ourselves as a united galaxy.

All Synthesis and Control accomplish are turning Shepard into a Monster and screwing over free will in the galaxy.

[Auintus]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Synthesis, the choice that has no explanation for what it does or how it does it. All we know is it will stop synthetics and organics from going to war. We're never told how it does this, besides some vague BS about people having tech in them and that somehow leading to Synthetics having understanding. How or why having cybernetic implants changes anything is never explained, how it happens is never explained, how precisely this solves the conflict is never explained, and on that front, what conflict is there at this point? The only ones we're in conflict with are the Reapers. Not the Geth, not EDI, nor any other Synthetic. Just the Reapers. And why in the hell should we make peace with them? Why should we take this option that dramatically alters every living thing in the galaxy without their consent and leaves the Reapers, the most powerful force in the entire galaxy, alive and with the will to do whatever they please?

Inaccurate. The Catalyst explains that the Synthesis solution would blur the line between synthetics and organics, removing that as a possible cause for war. The Catalyst has lived eons and has seen synthetics and organics come into conflict enough times to assume it is a foregone conclusion. I'm gonna trust it's judgement over yours here. "Whatever they please" is returning the memories of preseverved species to the galaxy. Their goal was to preserve organic life, which they accomplished the only way they could. With the synth-organic conflict ended, the harvest has no more purpose and the Reapers can help in ways that the galaxy would accept.

Control isn't much better, you're just replacing one monster with another. Paragon or Renegade doesn't even matter here, they're both saying the exact same thing, that they'll enforce peace and anyone who dissents is going to get crushed. You're doing the Catalyst's job, you're just not doing it in Cycle's anymore, now you're policing the entire galaxy to keep this supposed problem from happening. And this is monumentally dangerous. What if someone else uploaded themselves into the Reapers like Shepard did? What if the AI goes mad? More to the point, the entire galaxy becomes a police state, and anyone who doesn't go with what Shepard or The Many want don't get to have a say, and if they dissent, they get obliterated.

First off, there is a difference. Paragon defends the many, ie. they rule themselves and s/he ensures that they can. Renegade claims to lead the many, much more accurate to your statement. The Catalyst's job was a good one. You just had issue with the methodology.

If EDI and the geth have to bite it, too ****ing bad. We already lost Legion, Thane, Tarquinn, Mordin, Anderson, what's one more? As for the geth, they can be rebuilt, so what if they go offline for a little while? We proved peace was possible, Tali even states they were synthesizing with the quarians already of their own volition, we don't need to force it on everyone in the galaxy against their will. We don't need the Reapers keeping the geth in check and policing the galaxy, indoctrinating **** wherever they go, we can do it ourselves as a united galaxy.

Really? I can't imagine you'd be so nanchalant if you were the one being sacrificed against your will. Worse than physically modified, in my opinion. You proved nothing. That cooperation lasted a matter of months, if that. The Catalyst has seen organics and synthetics come to war enough times that it doesn't even bother to let it happen anymore. I believe it when it assumes that conflict will eventually arise.

All Synthesis and Control accomplish are turning Shepard into a Monster and screwing over free will in the galaxy.

I hesitate to say that the geth volunteered to die to destroy the Reapers. Legion seems perfectly willing to kill Shepard, the only one who has a real chance to stop the Reapers, to ensure that his own people have a chance at a future.
As for Synthesis, Shepard makes one choice on behalf of everyone, and as a result, they get to make many more choices of their own free will, and with all the potential in the world.

[Genetic Destiny]

Haargel wrote...

Sorry, imo, NO.

If you think it is the best, I respect that, I'm not here to force an ending to anyone.

Synthesis for me looked like: rape the whole galaxy, I chose destroy everytime, and still got heartbroken by the fact that the Geth and EDI died.

For me it looked like: The leader of the reapers is offering to fuse my essence with...machines? I've been fighting cyborg-zombie-slaves the whole game I'm not falling for this s***! Control it is! 

In the following playthroughs, I only chose Destroy.

[RiptideX1090]

@Auintus.

If my view is inaccurate (it's not), yours is unsubstantiated. You trust the Catalyst, but why? It's an AI designed by a race that understands no other way to interact with other sentient beings than through domination and manipulation. It takes these qualities to new, genocidal levels with the Reapers. And you believe trusting what it says, when it gives no validated examples for it's argument other than what it extrapolates is going to happen, and it's own favored solution, Synthesis, doesn't even receive an actual explanation for how it solves it's own posited problem? Why? Why take the word of a machine that has never made any attempt at compromise in its entire existence, instead preferring manipulation and domination and slaughter? Furthermore, you claim that the Reapers will be benevolent enough to just give out all the memories of their races, and while that appears true, you're also forgetting that as the most powerful force in the entire galaxy, their will is law. They warp free will just by being around sentient beings, and we want them walking around our cities? Why? Why is this a good thing? Because it saves EDI and the Geth? Keeping them alive is worth potentially sacrificing all free will in the galaxy because some insane AI says it's the best thing to do after giving no examples or explanations? That's not logical.

As for Control turning the entire galaxy into a dictatorship, this person explains it better than I could.

And you've proved nothing. You have no verifiable facts to indicate how long my cooperation could or would have lasted, only a theory stated by an AI, which has been proven wrong. The geth were aiding the quarians, making them stronger, and EDI was ready to die for Jeff and the Normandy's crew. And yes, I'd happily give my own life if it meant stopping a menace like the Reapers, or to take a bullet for a friend or loved one, and that you can't seem to comprehend that is rather disturbing.

That's the thing, you've no evidence they're dead. The Catalyst in the EC never says the geth will be destroyed, only that all synthetics will be Targeted. EDI is dead, there's no doubt about that, her core was made from Sovereign, but the geth could be rebuilt. Furthermore, I'd argue you killed EDI with Synthesis. EDI as I knew her valued her own life and the lives of the people she cared about, and she valued the fact that unlike the Reapers who only care about self-preservation, she cares and values the part of her humanity that allows her to be able to give her life for another person, going so far as to modify her own code to reflect this. The EDI in Synthesis completely disregards this in favor of blathering on about Immortality. As Legion and many of your crew mates argue during A House Divided, if you rewrite or destroy the Heretics, they're dead either way. Who they are is gone forever, whether they're shut down or made to think another way, their perspective, their way of thinking is dead, and by doing Synthesis, EDI has clearly 180'ed from the EDI that served on your team to one who thinks like a Reaper. No more war, maybe, but only because you took away free will.

[Wayning_Star]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

@Auintus.

If my view is inaccurate (it's not), yours is unsubstantiated. You trust the Catalyst, but why? It's an AI designed by a race that understands no other way to interact with other sentient beings than through domination and manipulation. It takes these qualities to new, genocidal levels with the Reapers. And you believe trusting what it says, when it gives no validated examples for it's argument other than what it extrapolates is going to happen, and it's own favored solution, Synthesis, doesn't even receive an actual explanation for how it solves it's own posited problem? Why? Why take the word of a machine that has never made any attempt at compromise in its entire existence, instead preferring manipulation and domination and slaughter? Furthermore, you claim that the Reapers will be benevolent enough to just give out all the memories of their races, and while that appears true, you're also forgetting that as the most powerful force in the entire galaxy, their will is law. They warp free will just by being around sentient beings, and we want them walking around our cities? Why? Why is this a good thing? Because it saves EDI and the Geth? Keeping them alive is worth potentially sacrificing all free will in the galaxy because some insane AI says it's the best thing to do after giving no examples or explanations? That's not logical.

As for Control turning the entire galaxy into a dictatorship, this person explains it better than I could.

And you've proved nothing. You have no verifiable facts to indicate how long my cooperation could or would have lasted, only a theory stated by an AI, which has been proven wrong. The geth were aiding the quarians, making them stronger, and EDI was ready to die for Jeff and the Normandy's crew. And yes, I'd happily give my own life if it meant stopping a menace like the Reapers, or to take a bullet for a friend or loved one, and that you can't seem to comprehend that is rather disturbing.

That's the thing, you've no evidence they're dead. The Catalyst in the EC never says the geth will be destroyed, only that all synthetics will be Targeted. EDI is dead, there's no doubt about that, her core was made from Sovereign, but the geth could be rebuilt. Furthermore, I'd argue you killed EDI with Synthesis. EDI as I knew her valued her own life and the lives of the people she cared about, and she valued the fact that unlike the Reapers who only care about self-preservation, she cares and values the part of her humanity that allows her to be able to give her life for another person, going so far as to modify her own code to reflect this. The EDI in Synthesis completely disregards this in favor of blathering on about Immortality. As Legion and many of your crew mates argue during A House Divided, if you rewrite or destroy the Heretics, they're dead either way. Who they are is gone forever, whether they're shut down or made to think another way, their perspective, their way of thinking is dead, and by doing Synthesis, EDI has clearly 180'ed from the EDI that served on your team to one who thinks like a Reaper. No more war, maybe, but only because you took away free will.

all in all it's a matter of seeing the catlyst for what it is, not apply any humanity to it. As you say it's creators think in absolutes, deception not being one of them. They have no need to lie, they KNOW what they're doing, doen't matter if they're wrong or right from our perspective. The catalyst tells you what is up with it, the crucible alters it's programming to permit choices, more than it would if not for the crucible. We don't know who made the crucible, nor the choices menu, but that is just it, we got what we got and we take our number.

Synthesis is the most potent choice as its the most radical. The catalsyt doesn't care, cause it cannot care, it's a computer with a program. You can blow it and the reaperships up with Geth/Edi and much of the tech associated, you can attempt assuming complete control, as pulling a TIM on the situation, or you can alter the MEU to the core of it's being as to attempt to nutralize all concerned by removing some of the competition from the equation of chaos. Or you can refuse and walk away, let the next in line take your calls. 

But, The crucible is the key to that and the crucible is what we have to 'trust' not the catalyst. The choices are the other faith based reality Shep is faced with. Totally unknown who or how those were divined, but the story only permits their use, not the full understanding of them.

IF you don't 'trust' or confide in what you have to work with, then refuse is the option to take, as that covers the distrust in Sheps' personna, to make the hardest choices for the MEU.

[RiptideX1090]

Wayning_Star wrote...

IF you don't 'trust' or confide in what you have to work with, then refuse is the option to take, as that covers the distrust in Sheps' personna, to make the hardest choices for the MEU.

Apathy is death, worse than death. And Refuse is just Destruction except everyone dies instead of EDI, and the geth (though their death is implied to be temporary by the Catalyst).

[V-rcingetorix]

Hexley UK wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

On my second play through I chose synthesis and it was an even better ending than destruction. From what I've been seeing from playing the game back to back, the people that have been saying the endings don't fit with the games are completely wrong! these endings have been great and I liked seeing all the races I helped and the wars I stopped bring people to together. In the epilog Shep kept saying she was alive I guess she didn't die in the beam and she became something else as well. 

That's nice for you, you must be one of the 5% of the fanbase they were aiming for.

As a genuinely curious question, have you played the ME1 and ME2 games? I mean from beginning to end, not just ME3 and then decided to play the others. Polls on BSN simply do not have the crowd-reach for accurate polling :/

[V-rcingetorix]

Wayning_Star wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...

~snip~ doing Synthesis, EDI has clearly 180'ed from the EDI that served on your team to one who thinks like a Reaper. No more war, maybe, but only because you took away free will.

all in all it's a matter of seeing the catlyst for what it is, not apply any humanity to it. As you say it's creators think in absolutes, deception not being one of them. They have no need to lie, they KNOW what they're doing, doen't matter if they're wrong or right from our perspective. The catalyst tells you what is up with it, the crucible alters it's programming to permit choices, more than it would if not for the crucible. We don't know who made the crucible, nor the choices menu, but that is just it, we got what we got and we take our number.

But, The crucible is the key to that and the crucible is what we have to 'trust' not the catalyst. The choices are the other faith based reality Shep is faced with. Totally unknown who or how those were divined, but the story only permits their use, not the full understanding of them.

IF you don't 'trust' or confide in what you have to work with, then refuse is the option to take, as that covers the distrust in Sheps' personna, to make the hardest choices for the MEU.

Interesting reasoning, but that's making the Leviathan/Catalyst into amoral individuals. That is impossiblg.  Why is the "catalyst" not held responsible for the Reapers deception? Or the Indoctrinated of the Reapers?

Saren, for example, deceived everyone, and Sovereign allowed everyone to believe it was a Super Geth Ship of Awesomeness. That's deception, not blatant "I'm Big and Bad, Surrender Immediately".

Javik references the traitors in the Prothean Empire, who breached security and let in the Reapers. Deception and lies, no absolute movement of purpose.

On Earth, the Reapers demand the world leaders "enter their superstructures to negotiate peace." Which would most likely be followed by a "cease fire" order...deception. If the Reapers were absolute, no morals, they wouldn't lie by saying 'negotiate" or allow their servants to lie as well, it would just be simple slaughter: kill all who resist. Instead, wrangling is introduced, both at the beginning and at the end.

For that matter, the Leviathan have been hiding out for how long again? Letting countless cycles go past w/o interfering, w/o revealing their presence or offering to finish the Crucible in their spare time...of which there is a considerable amount every 50,000 years...if this cycle can take finished (mostly) plans, and with their technology capability and knowledge create the Crucible, how come the Leviathan (with their superior knowledge) didn't or couldn't? Deception.

The Citadel is its home, the Reapers are his creation. When you build a sentient robot, you program its ethics. Maybe it has absolute thinking, but the Catalyst has a very odd way of evincing such thought. Its creators were master manipulators, and they programmed that into the Catalyst.

In my not-very-humble opinion, the Reapers are some of the biggest liars in the galaxy, and to trust the guy holding their leash is tantamount to trusting a rabid animal not to bite you. At least with animals you can keep your distance.

~EDIT: clarity, spelling

Modifié par V-rcingetorix, 31 janvier 2013 - 06:46 .

[thijs166]

Well... I like the colour green of synthesis, but other than that no...

Choosing control or synthesis makes me feel i'm pissing on the graves of the countless lives the reapers took. And refuse feels like my shepard has failed, its his/her story to finish not the next cycle's.

So yea i pick destroy. To bad of the geth and edi their sacrifice will not be forgotten, my shep and his/her squad will make sure of that . Besides if they ever want to create AI's again they will be better prepared on how to treat them.

Modifié par thijs166, 31 janvier 2013 - 08:26 .

[Mcfly616]

My canon ending is Destroy. But I think every ending is pretty cool in their own way.

I like synthesis because its got a trippy sci fi feel to it (with Asimov as a major influence) and it's like a futuristic utopia


As long you don't tell me how much better your choice is than mine lol people really need to let go and get over that train of thought

[CR121691]

So this is beautifull?