354 réponses à ce sujet

[GreyLycanTrope]

iakus wrote...
Hey if there's one thing the Mass Effect trilogy has taught us, it's that taking shortcuts using poorly-understood technology always works out just fine 

The square root of 906.01 is 30.1 after all

[Wayning_Star]

john_sheparrd wrote...

shame on you man

yeah, should've chose synthesis the first time. It's a purely renegade option, so I understand it.

[Wayning_Star]

Greylycantrope wrote...

iakus wrote...
Hey if there's one thing the Mass Effect trilogy has taught us, it's that taking shortcuts using poorly-understood technology always works out just fine 

The square root of 906.01 is 30.1 after all

actually that post supports synthesis, or at least the reason it's there..and it's really just 1+1= I win..reapers/leviathan lose..lol

[jijeebo]

As much as I love the positivity, I can't say I'm THAT fond of Synthesis myself.

Still prefer it to Refuse and Destroy though, but only just.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Wayning_Star wrote...

actually that post supports synthesis, or at least the reason it's there..and it's really just 1+1= I win..reapers/leviathan lose..lol

Not sure which post you're reffering to. Though I don't see how synthesis supports the I win view point.
How do the Reapers lose when they get what they wanted? They don't lose they'll just allow you to live now. And since when does Levi and cohorts matter? Both from a storyline and meta perspective, it is optional DLC it should have no bearing on the game's outcome.

[Mouton_Alpha]

That backlash in this thread is, as usual, hilarious. "rape, atrocity, brainwashing"

Oh well, hyperbole is the food of the internet.

[3DandBeyond]

Wayning_Star wrote...


now Edi has a force of will, but that will is to be thrown away in destroy, cause of the misinformation/lack of information as to the risk benefit ratio of synthesis. We know Edi is someone, but not worth saving if synthesis is to be chosen?

so much for self determination...just to get even with a broken machine mind...that can be repaired/replaced via other choices.. Glad we're just being human and not playing deity of the week.

That only points out the flaws with destroy, which isn't any better than the other choices at its core.  It's based upon the assumption that a super-heroic person would choose some depressing way to doom the galaxy and is playing god-using the kid's explanations as if they were proven fact.

It's all about what flavor and what degree of destructive authority you want the reapers to assert over the galaxy.  Do you want them to control the body, the mind, or the heart?  In synthesis they control the body.  In control, the mind.  In destroy, the heart.  They have decided what aspect of life you get to keep, and you pick what you (as a galaxy) can live without.  And if you decide, it is a question of being a deity.  Shepard was tasked with one decision and one action only.  But Shepard wasn't told to turn off his/her brain and just end this.  Shepard should be using the old noggin all the way through and should be capable of saying, "this makes no freaking sense".  The devs decided that no real person would say that.  Real people here have proven they were wrong.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 29 janvier 2013 - 07:56 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

That backlash in this thread is, as usual, hilarious. "rape, atrocity, brainwashing"

Oh well, hyperbole is the food of the internet.

I'll stick with atrocity but I say that about all the options. Just a matter of which one you find least atrocious really.

[3DandBeyond]

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

That backlash in this thread is, as usual, hilarious. "rape, atrocity, brainwashing"

Oh well, hyperbole is the food of the internet.

Considering this whole debacle was created in part due to the overuse of hype in order to get you to part with your money and buy a game with a huge variety of endings that are completely determined by blah blah blah, and no ABC ending and blah blah blah, why should the result be lacking in hyperbole?

[BirdsallSa]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...


now Edi has a force of will, but that will is to be thrown away in destroy, cause of the misinformation/lack of information as to the risk benefit ratio of synthesis. We know Edi is someone, but not worth saving if synthesis is to be chosen?

so much for self determination...just to get even with a broken machine mind...that can be repaired/replaced via other choices.. Glad we're just being human and not playing deity of the week.

That only points out the flaws with destroy, which isn't any better than the other choices at its core.  It's based upon the assumption that a super-heroic person would choose some depressing way to doom the galaxy and is playing god-using the kid's explanations as if they were proven fact.

It's all about what flavor and what degree of destructive authority you want the reapers to assert over the galaxy.  Do you want them to control the body, the mind, or the heart?  In synthesis they control the body.  In control, the mind.  In destroy, the heart.  They have decided what aspect of life you get to keep, and you pick what you (as a galaxy) can live without.  And if you decide, it is a question of being a deity.  Shepard was tasked with one decision and one action only.  But Shepard wasn't told to turn off his/her brain and just end this.  Shepard should be using the old noggin all the way through and should be capable of saying, "this makes no freaking sense".  The devs decided that no real person would say that.  Real people here have proven they were wrong.

However, Synthesis is inevitable. And saying that one person has control is a pre synthesis mentality. It makes us all connected. The Catalyst explains this. Synthesis puts an end, once and for all, to the organic-synthetic conflict. That's what makes it so beautiful.

[Reorte]

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

That backlash in this thread is, as usual, hilarious. "rape, atrocity, brainwashing"

Oh well, hyperbole is the food of the internet.

Yes, because saying it isn't bad makes it not bad. Got any actual counter-arguments?

[Reorte]

BirdsallSa wrote...

However, Synthesis is inevitable. And saying that one person has control is a pre synthesis mentality. It makes us all connected. The Catalyst explains this. Synthesis puts an end, once and for all, to the organic-synthetic conflict. That's what makes it so beautiful.

Everyone connected? Sounds hideous; not only does it invade every cell of my body completely against my will it also now destroys the privacy of my mind? And in any case there's no rational reason for it to end organic-synthetic conflict (which was never portrayed as anything particularly significant anyway). Please actually think about these things instead of just accepting what you're told.

[3DandBeyond]

BirdsallSa wrote...

However, Synthesis is inevitable. And saying that one person has control is a pre synthesis mentality. It makes us all connected. The Catalyst explains this. Synthesis puts an end, once and for all, to the organic-synthetic conflict. That's what makes it so beautiful.

Yeah, the Catalyst is actually not proof of anything.  He thinks a lot of things are inevitable.  So what?  He's about as flawed in his logic as anything can get and has the audacity to be called an AI-well, artificially (as in false) intelligence may be about right.  His logic is not logic.  His model for everything is based upon a certain point in time and not current events.  Synthesis does no such thing-it isn't logical to conclude it stops such a conflict.  Because it doesn't require people have the desire to change, unless it forces them to do so.  So you think that's beautiful?  Forcing people to become controlled internally by tech?  Remember, if free will exists conflict will occur.  People have individual thought and will disagree.  Synthesis merely removes organic life from the equation, but it could be created again.  And there's nothing stopping Synthetics from accidentally killing or deciding to kill.  And how about that tech inside people-you ignore that still.  What about the body's natural defenses?  What about someone not liking this connection and wanting to do what EDI wanted?

What is a post-synthesis mentality?  No one has control or everyone does over everyone else?  I'm sorry but I don't want to be connected to you.  And EDI didn't want to be part of a hive mind.  Legion wanted to be an individual.  Some synthetics might want to be "connected" but most organics don't want to be, not in that way.


Synthesis is not inevitable not as shown.  That isn't something that will just happen, people will grow tech in their DNA. 

[LucasShark]

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

That backlash in this thread is, as usual, hilarious. "rape, atrocity, brainwashing"

Oh well, hyperbole is the food of the internet.

Exactly what is hyperbolic about the comparison to rape?  The ending shows Shepard sticking something in "your" (ie: everyone in the galaxy) body whether you want it or not and without consent.  Sounds about accurate to me.

[BirdsallSa]

Reorte wrote...

BirdsallSa wrote...

However, Synthesis is inevitable. And saying that one person has control is a pre synthesis mentality. It makes us all connected. The Catalyst explains this. Synthesis puts an end, once and for all, to the organic-synthetic conflict. That's what makes it so beautiful.

Everyone connected? Sounds hideous; not only does it invade every cell of my body completely against my will it also now destroys the privacy of my mind? And in any case there's no rational reason for it to end organic-synthetic conflict (which was never portrayed as anything particularly significant anyway). Please actually think about these things instead of just accepting what you're told.

Of course there's a reason it ends the conflict. It's like you guys don't even pay attention to the narrative. The Catalyst himself says that synthetics will finally understand organics. Organics will be fully compatible with tech. This is what started the conflict to begin with as shown many times throughout the series.

[GreyLycanTrope]

BirdsallSa wrote...
However, Synthesis is inevitable. And saying that one person has control is a pre synthesis mentality. It makes us all connected. The Catalyst explains this. Synthesis puts an end, once and for all, to the organic-synthetic conflict. That's what makes it so beautiful.

Right it's not like glow boy could be wrong or anything. <_<

[3DandBeyond]

Reorte wrote...

BirdsallSa wrote...

However, Synthesis is inevitable. And saying that one person has control is a pre synthesis mentality. It makes us all connected. The Catalyst explains this. Synthesis puts an end, once and for all, to the organic-synthetic conflict. That's what makes it so beautiful.

Everyone connected? Sounds hideous; not only does it invade every cell of my body completely against my will it also now destroys the privacy of my mind? And in any case there's no rational reason for it to end organic-synthetic conflict (which was never portrayed as anything particularly significant anyway). Please actually think about these things instead of just accepting what you're told.

Exactly.  And the one huge synthetic vs organics conflict that would have relevance to Shepard is never referenced.  Why is that?  Because the synthetics involved were rebelled against by their creators (not the created rebelling as the kid says), the geth also were not out to destroy all organics, but were fighting for their lives, and these killer robots decided to stop.  They used their evolving minds to determine not to kill, except when Sovereign comes along and uses some to kill organics, or when the brilliant quarians decide to try and take back Rannoch in the middle of a reaper sh!!storm.  And even they could be made to see that the geth were not out to kill them.  However, this brilliant little AI kid can't comprehend such a situation and Shepard never even tries to discuss it.

[ruggly]

My problem with synthesis is that it affects every being in the galaxy.  In my opinon, Shepard, or anyone really, has no right to go ahead and affect all these unknown races and cultures for a war/problem they don't even know about.  That just seems akin to uplifting races before they're ready, and it seems like that has nothing but pretty disastrous results (but that's just me speculatin').  Plus the whole "final evolution" line...

As interesting as synthesis could be, it was not well thought out at all.

[BirdsallSa]

3DandBeyond wrote...

BirdsallSa wrote...

However, Synthesis is inevitable. And saying that one person has control is a pre synthesis mentality. It makes us all connected. The Catalyst explains this. Synthesis puts an end, once and for all, to the organic-synthetic conflict. That's what makes it so beautiful.

Yeah, the Catalyst is actually not proof of anything.  He thinks a lot of things are inevitable.  So what?  He's about as flawed in his logic as anything can get and has the audacity to be called an AI-well, artificially (as in false) intelligence may be about right.  His logic is not logic.  His model for everything is based upon a certain point in time and not current events.  Synthesis does no such thing-it isn't logical to conclude it stops such a conflict.  Because it doesn't require people have the desire to change, unless it forces them to do so.  So you think that's beautiful?  Forcing people to become controlled internally by tech?  Remember, if free will exists conflict will occur.  People have individual thought and will disagree.  Synthesis merely removes organic life from the equation, but it could be created again.  And there's nothing stopping Synthetics from accidentally killing or deciding to kill.  And how about that tech inside people-you ignore that still.  What about the body's natural defenses?  What about someone not liking this connection and wanting to do what EDI wanted?

What is a post-synthesis mentality?  No one has control or everyone does over everyone else?  I'm sorry but I don't want to be connected to you.  And EDI didn't want to be part of a hive mind.  Legion wanted to be an individual.  Some synthetics might want to be "connected" but most organics don't want to be, not in that way.


Synthesis is not inevitable not as shown.  That isn't something that will just happen, people will grow tech in their DNA. 

There is no concept of control at all. We're all one. It is the apex of all life. The Catalyst is the only one who is fully logical. It's all of you synthesis and control bashers who have flawed logic. The Catalyst says this himself when talking about Leviathan, "Their flawed organic reasoning...".

[BirdsallSa]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Reorte wrote...

BirdsallSa wrote...

However, Synthesis is inevitable. And saying that one person has control is a pre synthesis mentality. It makes us all connected. The Catalyst explains this. Synthesis puts an end, once and for all, to the organic-synthetic conflict. That's what makes it so beautiful.

Everyone connected? Sounds hideous; not only does it invade every cell of my body completely against my will it also now destroys the privacy of my mind? And in any case there's no rational reason for it to end organic-synthetic conflict (which was never portrayed as anything particularly significant anyway). Please actually think about these things instead of just accepting what you're told.

Exactly.  And the one huge synthetic vs organics conflict that would have relevance to Shepard is never referenced.  Why is that?  Because the synthetics involved were rebelled against by their creators (not the created rebelling as the kid says), the geth also were not out to destroy all organics, but were fighting for their lives, and these killer robots decided to stop.  They used their evolving minds to determine not to kill, except when Sovereign comes along and uses some to kill organics, or when the brilliant quarians decide to try and take back Rannoch in the middle of a reaper sh!!storm.  And even they could be made to see that the geth were not out to kill them.  However, this brilliant little AI kid can't comprehend such a situation and Shepard never even tries to discuss it.

Actually, the Geth rebelled against the Quarians the second that one rogue refused to shut down. That's when the cycle started. And just because the quarians and geth can come to a ceasefire for a few days, does that disprove billions of years of hard cold evidence? Nonsense. Who are you to defy The Intelligence?

[Sable Rhapsody]

I do like the interpretation of Synthesis that Ieldra thought out and posted in the OP of the Synthesis support thread. Here's the thing: I honestly think that's a case of fans putting more time, thought, and effort into the ending than the writers did  It is so massively different from the "miracle space magic" vibe I got from the game itself.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 29 janvier 2013 - 08:30 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Apex of life is a flaw concept to begin with, beside that it implies stagnation. No thanks.
Never mind that the Catalyst was written by a human equally capable of flawed organic reasons as the rest of us...

BirdsallSa wrote...
Who are you to defy The Intelligence?

I'm The Goddamned Shepard!

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 29 janvier 2013 - 08:29 .

[3DandBeyond]

LucasShark wrote...

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

That backlash in this thread is, as usual, hilarious. "rape, atrocity, brainwashing"

Oh well, hyperbole is the food of the internet.

Exactly what is hyperbolic about the comparison to rape?  The ending shows Shepard sticking something in "your" (ie: everyone in the galaxy) body whether you want it or not and without consent.  Sounds about accurate to me.

Yes, apparently some think it must apply only to some sexual abuse, but the term is used as in rape of the land.  In ME3, Shepard is clearly forcing something the kid says can't be forced upon others where a percentage would not want it, without any kind of consent, implied or spoken or sent by morse code or carrier pigeon.  Shepard is forcing his/her own essence be sent out along with some reaper stuff through this beam that emanates from the joining of the crucible and the citadel, and having it inserted into others' bodies.  If this was consensual someone might need a cigarette, but since it's not even what others ever thought would happen, it's molestation.  And though rape is nothing to joke about, what makes synthesis partly worse is that it forever alters every single organic being in the galaxy internally.

At no point does Shepard even ask anyone if this sounds like a good idea.

[BirdsallSa]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

I do like the interpretation of Synthesis that Ieldra thought out and posted in the OP of the Synthesis support thread. Here's the thing: I honestly think that's a case of fans putting more time, thought, and effort into the ending than the writers did >< It is so massively different from the "miracle space magic" vibe I got from the game itself.

That's just headcanon. We could headcanon a lot of great things. That doesn't mean they're what actually happen in the game.

[BirdsallSa]

3DandBeyond wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

That backlash in this thread is, as usual, hilarious. "rape, atrocity, brainwashing"

Oh well, hyperbole is the food of the internet.

Exactly what is hyperbolic about the comparison to rape?  The ending shows Shepard sticking something in "your" (ie: everyone in the galaxy) body whether you want it or not and without consent.  Sounds about accurate to me.

Yes, apparently some think it must apply only to some sexual abuse, but the term is used as in rape of the land.  In ME3, Shepard is clearly forcing something the kid says can't be forced upon others where a percentage would not want it, without any kind of consent, implied or spoken or sent by morse code or carrier pigeon.  Shepard is forcing his/her own essence be sent out along with some reaper stuff through this beam that emanates from the joining of the crucible and the citadel, and having it inserted into others' bodies.  If this was consensual someone might need a cigarette, but since it's not even what others ever thought would happen, it's molestation.  And though rape is nothing to joke about, what makes synthesis partly worse is that it forever alters every single organic being in the galaxy internally.

At no point does Shepard even ask anyone if this sounds like a good idea.

You're indoctrinated.