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[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Would you guys like to see Morailty repsented differently in Mass Effect 4 and if so how and if not would you like to see it tweaked.

I think it could use an overhaul.
I think if you are playing as a paragon there are times when you should get angry an example being when you get back from the geth ship in ME3, or in your conversation with TIM after you first time on the collector base in ME2. I also think you can be a renegade without being an ass and some of the renegade choices come off that way.

Dammit wrong forum, oh well.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 29 janvier 2013 - 07:25 .

[Argolas]

I personally think that system is somewhere in between bad and broken. See 2nd link in my sig.

[David7204]

There are plenty of times throughout the entire times where the Paragon option is being angry or even hostile.

[AlanC9]

I think morality systems are conceptually bad and should never be used.

[PainCakesx]

The Paragon / Renegade was okay for the most part. There were a few sketchy things where something was Renegade that shouldn't have been. For example, I helped Liara on Illium in ME2 with my Paragon Shepard despite it being the "Renegade" thing to do. 

Modifié par PainCakesx, 29 janvier 2013 - 07:32 .

[Argolas]

AlanC9 wrote...

I think morality systems are conceptually bad and should never be used.

Unless subjective morality systems that are not based on a general categorization, but on the subjective POVs of your allies, voiced in approval and disapproval. Dragon Age: Origins did that pretty well.

[IMNOTCRAZYiminsane]

Well renegade is being a jerk but a jerk who gets things done !

I want them to fix the system to have Shepard react in renegade ways if you have renegade or paragon if you have paragon (since they want to go down the "auto-dialogue" route) in ME3 one of my biggest issues with my renegade Shepard was her dreaming about the kid when renegade Shepard knows not to dwell on that and after Thessia pissed me off Renegade Shepard should not be sorry that Asari councilor held onto information until her country was getting destroyed and yelling to Joker about his joke it's silly and was annoying that no matter what choice you chosen Joker gets yelled at by Shepard.

*you can tell my Favorite huh? LULZ*

Modifié par IMNOTCRAZYiminsane, 29 janvier 2013 - 07:36 .

[David7204]

Games with decisions should always morality in them. And there should always to consequences to that. The only difference is whether it's directly visible or not.

I think people who say morality systems are bad are drastically overestimating the impact removing them would have. The 'good' choice is almost always obvious (as it should be) - save the most people, don't be selfish or cruel, do the right thing. You don't need a morality system for that to be clear.

[DeinonSlayer]

OP, why do you feel compelled to adhere to one or the other? The Reputation system removed the lockout mechanic from ME2. Think for yourself instead of letting the game tell you right and wrong. You can do whatever you think is right without worrying about dialogue being blocked to you... so long as you do enough fetch quests.

For the record, I only have my dumber/more emotional/more self-centered Shepards punch Gerrel. The man made the right call. It's pure egoism that makes people angry in that situation.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 29 janvier 2013 - 07:38 .

[Steelcan]

ME3 did Paragon/Renegade right. But maybe there should be more than just Paragon/Renegade, maybe thrown in another axis to the system.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

OP, why do you feel compelled to adhere to one or the other? The Reputation system removed the lockout mechanic from ME2. Think for yourself instead of letting the game tell you right and wrong. You can do whatever you think is right without worrying about dialogue being blocked to you... so long as you do enough fetch quests.

For the record, I only have my dumber/more emotional/more self-centered Shepards punch Gerrel. The man made the right call. It's pure egoism that makes people angry in that situation.

I don't, I'm just saying it could be better, and on whether or not Gerrel made the right call is debatable, if you are Shepard you should be thinking about how to get the biggest army possible and having peace between the Geth and Quarians is the best way to do so, so no if you are Shepard Gerrel did not make the right call he is putting your whole mission in danger. Not to mention if you are dead the galaxy is ****ed.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 29 janvier 2013 - 07:59 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Seeing as it was largely inconsequential at the end I don't see why. Lose the morality score add a persuasion skill you can dump points into and let people intimidate or charm their way out of a situation according to their perspective instead of the placement of the option on the dialogue wheel.

[DeinonSlayer]

DinoSteve wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

OP, why do you feel compelled to adhere to one or the other? The Reputation system removed the lockout mechanic from ME2. Think for yourself instead of letting the game tell you right and wrong. You can do whatever you think is right without worrying about dialogue being blocked to you... so long as you do enough fetch quests.

For the record, I only have my dumber/more emotional/more self-centered Shepards punch Gerrel. The man made the right call. It's pure egoism that makes people angry in that situation.

I don't, I'm just saying it could be better, and on whether or not Gerrel made the right call is debatable, if you are Shepard you are should be thinking about how to get the biggest army possible and having peace between the Geth and Quarians is the best way to do so, so no if you are Shepard Gerrel did not make the right call he is putting your whole mission in danger. Not to mention if you are dead the galaxy is ****ed.

Every Geth on that dreadnought was still hostile. They'd be working on repairs. If the Geth got barriers back up, they'd go right back to tearing into Shepard's only allies in the system, and this time there would be no way to stop it. That dreadnought was a lost cause the moment the Geth gave the reigns to the Reapers. It was a risk, but Shepard and co got out unharmed.

I doubt Koris' civilian crew appreciates being abandoned to the Geth, either, but that, too, services the larger objective. I doubt people would be as vocal in their objections to Gerrel's actions if it had been a couple of nameless Quarian operatives on the ship instead.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 29 janvier 2013 - 07:59 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

OP, why do you feel compelled to adhere to one or the other? The Reputation system removed the lockout mechanic from ME2. Think for yourself instead of letting the game tell you right and wrong. You can do whatever you think is right without worrying about dialogue being blocked to you... so long as you do enough fetch quests.

For the record, I only have my dumber/more emotional/more self-centered Shepards punch Gerrel. The man made the right call. It's pure egoism that makes people angry in that situation.

I don't, I'm just saying it could be better, and on whether or not Gerrel made the right call is debatable, if you are Shepard you are should be thinking about how to get the biggest army possible and having peace between the Geth and Quarians is the best way to do so, so no if you are Shepard Gerrel did not make the right call he is putting your whole mission in danger. Not to mention if you are dead the galaxy is ****ed.

Every Geth on that dreadnought was still hostile. They'd be working on repairs. If the Geth got barriers back up, they'd go right back to tearing into Shepard's only allies in the system, and this time there would be no way to stop it. That dreadnought was a lost cause the moment the Geth gave the reigns to the Reapers. It was a risk, but Shepard and co got out unharmed.

I doubt Koris' civilian crew appreciates being abandoned to the Geth, either, but that, too, services the larger objective. I doubt people would be as vocal in their objections to Gerrel's actions if it had been a couple of nameless Quarian operatives on the ship instead.

When Gerrel fired on that ship he did not care if Shepard got off, from Shepard pov it was the wrong decision, plus it was not part of the plan, Shepard agreed too help the Quarian live ships escape not continue a pointless war with the geth.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

It's not as simple as they made it.

Charm/Intimidate --- this I like. Dump skill points into this.

Reputation -- Your Paragon/Renegade scores here, but make them faction based. What is paragon with one faction may count against you with another faction.

What this may actually do is make our hero tend toward playing more neutral until they are sure which faction they are going to side with, because there is always going to be that tipping point, unless there is an option to make peace between the rival factions. Treading the line between them can be dangerous and the truce may have some undesired results.

[AresKeith]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

It's not as simple as they made it.

Charm/Intimidate --- this I like. Dump skill points into this.

Reputation -- Your Paragon/Renegade scores here, but make them faction based. What is paragon with one faction may count against you with another faction.

What this may actually do is make our hero tend toward playing more neutral until they are sure which faction they are going to side with, because there is always going to be that tipping point, unless there is an option to make peace between the rival factions. Treading the line between them can be dangerous and the truce may have some undesired results.

Paragade is the way to go

[Thrazesul]

I think it's a bit bad that you can't be neutral, or a bit of both (well you can but see below). I don't see how having high paragorn/renegade skill has to do with being able to tell Miranda/Jack or Tali/Legion something that's quite obvious so they stop fighting. Otherwise I don't mind the system but it removes the ability to properly roleplay your character sometimes. But that's just me maybe.

Modifié par Thrazesul, 29 janvier 2013 - 08:12 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

OP, why do you feel compelled to adhere to one or the other? The Reputation system removed the lockout mechanic from ME2. Think for yourself instead of letting the game tell you right and wrong. You can do whatever you think is right without worrying about dialogue being blocked to you... so long as you do enough fetch quests.

For the record, I only have my dumber/more emotional/more self-centered Shepards punch Gerrel. The man made the right call. It's pure egoism that makes people angry in that situation.

I don't, I'm just saying it could be better, and on whether or not Gerrel made the right call is debatable, if you are Shepard you are should be thinking about how to get the biggest army possible and having peace between the Geth and Quarians is the best way to do so, so no if you are Shepard Gerrel did not make the right call he is putting your whole mission in danger. Not to mention if you are dead the galaxy is ****ed.

Every Geth on that dreadnought was still hostile. They'd be working on repairs. If the Geth got barriers back up, they'd go right back to tearing into Shepard's only allies in the system, and this time there would be no way to stop it. That dreadnought was a lost cause the moment the Geth gave the reigns to the Reapers. It was a risk, but Shepard and co got out unharmed.

I doubt Koris' civilian crew appreciates being abandoned to the Geth, either, but that, too, services the larger objective. I doubt people would be as vocal in their objections to Gerrel's actions if it had been a couple of nameless Quarian operatives on the ship instead.

My own Shepard told Gerrel "We'll take care of disabling the ship. Then you counter-attack."

Gerrel did that. I was supposed to get angry at him? No. "Good job taking out that ship."

[GreyLycanTrope]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
My own Shepard told Gerrel "We'll take care of disabling the ship. Then you counter-attack."

Gerrel did that. I was supposed to get angry at him? No. "Good job taking out that ship."

It's inconsitant if you go full paragon as well, you tell him to retreat, he tries to kill you but you're cool with it.
Punch him every time, we could have used that ship!

[DeinonSlayer]

DinoSteve wrote...

When Gerrel fired on that ship he did not care if Shepard got off, from Shepard pov it was the wrong decision, plus it was not part of the plan, Shepard agreed too help the Quarian live ships escape not continue a pointless war with the geth.

Yours did. Mine remembered that it takes days for the Migrant Fleet to traverse a relay - retreat was never a viable option. I encouraged them to press the attack. The Geth are currently Reaper pawns - an enemy, no better than heretics or husks - and we know nothing about Legion's status at that time. I won't assault Gerrel for making a command decision and expanding on my recommendation.

I don't want to get into the discussion here, but suffice to say, the war was not "pointless." They acted on the information they had. Really, neither the Quarians nor the Geth had much choice but to do what they did (declare war, side with the Reapers). Both made mistakes contributing to the situation (Quarian aggression, Geth hostile isolationism).

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 29 janvier 2013 - 08:27 .

[Davik Kang]

DinoSteve wrote...

Would you guys like to see Morailty repsented differently in Mass Effect 4 and if so how and if not would you like to see it tweaked.

I think it could use an overhaul.
I think if you are playing as a paragon there are times when you should get angry an example being when you get back from the geth ship in ME3, or in your conversation with TIM after you first time on the collector base in ME2. I also think you can be a renegade without being an ass and some of the renegade choices come off that way.

I thought it was used fairly well in the series, though I definitely hope they come up with something more interesting for future games.  It was pretty cool in earlier games like KotOR, but it has a couple of problems now that the games have moved on from then, e.g.

1 - It's not really rewarding.  Having a Paragon Only choice at the end of the game simply forces you to choose lots of Paragon options earlier on, without thinking about the choices independently.

2 - Shoving them together as Reputation is interesting, but ultimately defeats the point of a personality 'score' - it means you either pick extreme options for a high score, or you go with more timid neutral options for a low score.  Again this diminishes the decision-making process during each choice.

It worked well in Star Wars because it reflected the Light Side / Dark Side dichtomy and how making less savoury choices could slowly lead you down an 'all too familiar path'.  And it was fun at times in ME, but yeah I hope they think of a way to make personality or persuasion features more developed in future games (if they retain them).

Modifié par Davik Kang, 29 janvier 2013 - 08:20 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Greylycantrope wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
My own Shepard told Gerrel "We'll take care of disabling the ship. Then you counter-attack."

Gerrel did that. I was supposed to get angry at him? No. "Good job taking out that ship."

It's inconsitant if you go full paragon as well, you tell him to retreat, he tries to kill you but you're cool with it.
Punch him every time, we could have used that ship!

That ship was a lost cause the moment the Geth handed it over to the Reapers.

[Argolas]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
My own Shepard told Gerrel "We'll take care of disabling the ship. Then you counter-attack."

Gerrel did that. I was supposed to get angry at him? No. "Good job taking out that ship."

It's inconsitant if you go full paragon as well, you tell him to retreat, he tries to kill you but you're cool with it.
Punch him every time, we could have used that ship!

That ship was a lost cause the moment the Geth handed it over to the Reapers.

That would apply to the Geth as a whole, then. What's the difference between a typical Geth and a Geth ship? I'd say none. Geth are Software, those walking flashlights are just platforms, as are their ships. Until Reaper code changes them, that is.

[CynicalShep]

David7204 wrote...

Games with decisions should always morality in them. And there should always to consequences to that. The only difference is whether it's directly visible or not.

I think people who say morality systems are bad are drastically overestimating the impact removing them would have. The 'good' choice is almost always obvious (as it should be) - save the most people, don't be selfish or cruel, do the right thing. You don't need a morality system for that to be clear.

No they shouldn't. I agree about the consequences, however. Some people need to see that shooting a civie in the foot is bad. Also, something ME overlooked - giving a criminal a loaded gun and turning your back on him is usually a bad idea. Obsessive-compulsive paragons should have been punished as well(sometimes the short way is the right way).

I would much rather have an influence system like KOTOR or even TOR. Push that merc of the Dantius tower - Jack likes it, Kaidan dislikes it, Garrus doesn't give a damn (just an example, your opinion may be different).