307 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

Steelcan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Most of my play throughs lean renegade.

That said I do have a 99% paragon run.

Where'd the 1% come from?

. Destroying the heretics:devil:

Nice work. :devil:

[Dean_the_Young]

AlanC9 wrote...

I think morality systems are conceptually bad and should never be used.

What do you think of factional-alignment systems, then? Things such as FNV?

And what if there was an ideological system: not so much tied to a specific group, but a dominant viewpoints of a setting?

[Steelcan]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Most of my play throughs lean renegade.

That said I do have a 99% paragon run.

Where'd the 1% come from?

. Destroying the heretics:devil:

Nice work. :devil:

. Rewriting them is one of three options I would never pick under any circumstances.  The other two are Synthesis and killing the quarians

[Seboist]

Should have sold Legion to Cerberus. It would have spared you from wasting time with a pointless Heretic sub-plot.

[CynicalShep]

My main playthrough is mixed. I have a full renegade for teh lulz but most of the times I mix it up.

David7204 wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

Seboist wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

Shepard: "You are a criminal, you are bad and you should feel bad!".
Random criminal: "You are right. I understand the error of my ways and I will stop being bad. In fact, I will open a dog-shelter tomorrow"
It doesn't work like that and it never will. Going the extra-mile to help someone should be rewarded. Making bad calls because "shining paragon of compassion and love" shouldn't. Long story short - naïveté should be punished.

In the whacky world of the ME sequels it does. Based on one choice you can make in ME1 you can transform aspiring crime lord Helena Blake who had Shepard assasinate her rivals into a social worker(lol).

Or turning your back on the merc leader on the Dantius tower and walking away(after blasting through dozens of other mercs).

No. First of all, there's zero evidence that that particular merc was any kind of leader. Secondly, Shepard gives his word that he'll let him go if the merc gives him information. You don't go back on something like that. Like you just said, it's a single guy. Shepard's just gunned down dozens. He's not going to cause a problem.

"No, I don't need any reinforcements. Don't worry, I got it under control". Either he is an uber-soldier or he is in charge of a merc squad. And he could do anything starting with shooting you repeatedly point-blank in the back to giving away your location/squad formation/armor and weapon specs. You either incapacitate and silence him or kill him. You don't just walk away, you jeopardize your mission and safety. I know Shepard is fantastic and can take on anyone but simply walking away is careless and illogical.

Seboist wrote...

I always killed that merc. Now, if there was an incapacitate or capture option things might've gone differently but such as it was, he gots to die.

Exactly

[DeinonSlayer]

Steelcan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Most of my play throughs lean renegade.

That said I do have a 99% paragon run.

Where'd the 1% come from?

. Destroying the heretics:devil:

Nice work. :devil:

. Rewriting them is one of three options I would never pick under any circumstances.  The other two are Synthesis and killing the quarians

I did a "rewrite the heretics" playthrough (Pragmatic Engineer FemShep). She was... not pleased with the outcome. I'll never do a playthrough with either of those other two, though.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 30 janvier 2013 - 12:38 .

[Seboist]

CynicalShep wrote...

he could do anything starting with shooting you repeatedly point-blank in the back to giving away your location/squad formation/armor and weapon specs. You either incapacitate and silence him or kill him. You don't just walk away, you jeopardize your mission and safety. I know Shepard is fantastic and can take on anyone but simply walking away is careless and illogical.

Same reason why I killed Rana Thanoptis in ME1.

[Steelcan]

Seboist wrote...

Should have sold Legion to Cerberus. It would have spared you from wasting time with a pointless Heretic sub-plot.

. What do you think my newest play through is doing?

Hes a fanatical pro-human, kind of person who leaves David plugged in, if I had Overlord..

[Seboist]

Steelcan wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Should have sold Legion to Cerberus. It would have spared you from wasting time with a pointless Heretic sub-plot.

. What do you think my newest play through is doing?

Hes a fanatical pro-human, kind of person who leaves David plugged in, if I had Overlord..

To quote TIM, "You've made the right choice". *thumbs up*

I kept David in Overlord as well.It's too bad like most other Renegade choices it's pointless though.

[DeinonSlayer]

Steelcan wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Should have sold Legion to Cerberus. It would have spared you from wasting time with a pointless Heretic sub-plot.

. What do you think my newest play through is doing?

Hes a fanatical pro-human, kind of person who leaves David plugged in, if I had Overlord..

You should get it. It has the Hammerhead!

[CynicalShep]

Steelcan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Most of my play throughs lean renegade.

That said I do have a 99% paragon run.

Where'd the 1% come from?

. Destroying the heretics

Nice work.

. Rewriting them is one of three options I would never pick under any circumstances. The other two are Synthesis and killing the quarians

I nearly always rewrite them. Way I look at it - if they play nice those will be useful reinforcements. If they turn on us we're as good as screwed anyways

[Seboist]

I never had too much trouble with the Hammerhead's armor. You can pick off Geth troops from afar without them even shooting back or take out those drones in the dig site quickly and with Overlord's turrets some simple strafing does the job.

[Dean_the_Young]

I'm not particularly enamored with morality systems as a -moral- system, and I think ME2 demonstrated the weaknesses of using a tone-based morality system: the exact same actions or circumstances would flip in alignment from mission to mission, or even within the same mission. Inconsistency is the antithesis of a system, while moral ambiguity makes a morality-based system harder to do. Good and Evil is easy, but not very interesting: the closer to grey and grey you get, the less meaningful the moral difference.


What I do enjoy, however, are ideological-based morality systems: systems in which a morality is associated with key themes and principles, and the actions that support those principles are consistently that morality. ME1 was arguably the strongest of the trilogy because while it had some flaws in what made up Paragon and Renegade, it was at least clear and consistent. Paragon was ideologically inclined towards pro-Council, pro-cooperation, and mercy: Renegade was consistently about Human-first, self-reliance, and retribution. They weren't always handled evenly, but they were clear.

I think ideology-moral systems are interesting and useful because they can allow a good structure for reflecting and conveying key themes. More specific is better for this, of course: 'Paragon' can mean a lot of things without you adhering to all of them. But ideological conviction can be seen as a different form of factionalism, and faction-based systems are something I think most people can agree make sense.

[Steelcan]

Seboist wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Should have sold Legion to Cerberus. It would have spared you from wasting time with a pointless Heretic sub-plot.

. What do you think my newest play through is doing?

Hes a fanatical pro-human, kind of person who leaves David plugged in, if I had Overlord..

To quote TIM, "You've made the right choice". *thumbs up*

I kept David in Overlord as well.It's too bad like most other Renegade choices it's pointless though.

. Do they give the choice again? So we can make the right be this time around?

[DeinonSlayer]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I'm not particularly enamored with morality systems as a -moral- system, and I think ME2 demonstrated the weaknesses of using a tone-based morality system: the exact same actions or circumstances would flip in alignment from mission to mission, or even within the same mission. Inconsistency is the antithesis of a system, while moral ambiguity makes a morality-based system harder to do. Good and Evil is easy, but not very interesting: the closer to grey and grey you get, the less meaningful the moral difference.


What I do enjoy, however, are ideological-based morality systems: systems in which a morality is associated with key themes and principles, and the actions that support those principles are consistently that morality. ME1 was arguably the strongest of the trilogy because while it had some flaws in what made up Paragon and Renegade, it was at least clear and consistent. Paragon was ideologically inclined towards pro-Council, pro-cooperation, and mercy: Renegade was consistently about Human-first, self-reliance, and retribution. They weren't always handled evenly, but they were clear.

I think ideology-moral systems are interesting and useful because they can allow a good structure for reflecting and conveying key themes. More specific is better for this, of course: 'Paragon' can mean a lot of things without you adhering to all of them. But ideological conviction can be seen as a different form of factionalism, and faction-based systems are something I think most people can agree make sense.

There was a lot of potential for this. Pro-organic or pro-synthetic? Pro-freedom or pro-martial law? Did you let C-Sec tap private video surveillance? They could have charted it in any number of ways without "suggesting" to the player that one was better than the other.

[Steelcan]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Most of my play throughs lean renegade.

That said I do have a 99% paragon run.

Where'd the 1% come from?

. Destroying the heretics:devil:

Nice work. :devil:

. Rewriting them is one of three options I would never pick under any circumstances.  The other two are Synthesis and killing the quarians

I'd add Refuse and cure genophage with Wreav to that list.

. Refuse doesn't count, it's not a real option.  And I'll add Wreave + cure to the list.

[Steelcan]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

I think morality systems are conceptually bad and should never be used.

What do you think of factional-alignment systems, then? Things such as FNV?

I love the faction system of New Vegas.

. All hail Caesar 

[Steelcan]

CynicalShep wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Most of my play throughs lean renegade.

That said I do have a 99% paragon run.

Where'd the 1% come from?

. Destroying the heretics

Nice work.

. Rewriting them is one of three options I would never pick under any circumstances. The other two are Synthesis and killing the quarians

I nearly always rewrite them. Way I look at it - if they play nice those will be useful reinforcements. If they turn on us we're as good as screwed anyways

. Why add fuel to the fire?

[dreamgazer]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

I think morality systems are conceptually bad and should never be used.

What do you think of factional-alignment systems, then? Things such as FNV?

I love the faction system of New Vegas.

+1

[Seboist]

Steelcan wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Should have sold Legion to Cerberus. It would have spared you from wasting time with a pointless Heretic sub-plot.

. What do you think my newest play through is doing?

Hes a fanatical pro-human, kind of person who leaves David plugged in, if I had Overlord..

To quote TIM, "You've made the right choice". *thumbs up*

I kept David in Overlord as well.It's too bad like most other Renegade choices it's pointless though.

. Do they give the choice again? So we can make the right be this time around?

No, what happens is that Shepard behaves as a schizoid hypocrite by condemning what Gavin Archer did despite being his enabler by agreeing to keep David there.

Renegade consistency ftw.

[Seboist]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

I think morality systems are conceptually bad and should never be used.

What do you think of factional-alignment systems, then? Things such as FNV?

I love the faction system of New Vegas.

. All hail Caesar 

'
I actually just finished up a Legion playthrough last week. It was very enjoyable to help Caesar crush the NCR and sell Arcade into slavery to cure his tumour.

Playing a pro-Legion female courier was awesome for me.



It's one of the most oddball tales of female empowerment out there.

[Steelcan]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
I think morality systems are conceptually bad and should never be used.

What do you think of factional-alignment systems, then? Things such as FNV?

I love the faction system of New Vegas.

. All hail Caesar 

'
I actually just finished up a Legion playthrough last week. It was very enjoyable to help Caesar crush the NCR and sell Arcade into slavery to cure his tumour.

. I'm a sucker for Ancient Rome.  I pick the Legion, Empire in Skyrim.