177 réponses à ce sujet

[Dunvi]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Maybe. I've played one game with him and then spent a respec card on it and didn't bother to spend the points.

I actually sent Eric Fagnan an email last week regarding exactly this buff, complete with the math asking them to do exactly what they did (raise base force to at least 650N, increase evolutions to give at least 10% more). The reason this is a significant buff (as opposed to the original, token buff) is that you now can get enough force to stagger a gold phantom while still taking both radius and the turian weapon passives at rank 4, the only real bonus this class has over any vanguard. It has nothing to do with the damage amount, it has to do with the force.

This buff basically puts him in an interesting niche similar to the drellguard, who sacrifices health and shields (and a lot of them) for some crazy good weapon passives. Similarly, the turian havoc has a weaker charge in exchange for some really good weapon passives. It's something to consider, basically.

If you want to see the PM, I have a copy saved in my gists, I can link it.

Yes, this was a good analysis.

Thank you! I try my best.

ETA: a link to a copy of the PM. I discovered some interesting conclusions about various vanguards in it, for those of you who are not inclined to crunch numbers yourselves.

Modifié par Dunvi, 29 janvier 2013 - 09:44 .

[Thrasher91604]

Staggering bosses does not make up for the bugged stim packs and double strikes. Sorry. Fix the bugs rather adding flimsy bandaids.

Modifié par Thrasher91604, 29 janvier 2013 - 09:46 .

[Dunvi]

Thrasher91604 wrote...

Staggering bosses does not make up for the bugged stim packs and double strikes. Sorry. Fix the bugs.

... stim packs aren't bugged to my knowledge. And what about double strikes? In fact, these buffs make a melee build actually viable now, as opposed to before where it was flat out asking to get synckilled.

[ShinTheZero]

These buffs are delicious; because now the Turian Havoc is a decent weapon platform.
Basically, through the Force&Damage buff, you can take the weapon tree without sacrifing the ability to stagger most things in the game.

Havoc Strike gives a +25% Weapon Damage Bonus. The passives of the Armiger Legion +30% and +55% Weapon Stability. Combined with Stimpacks +20.5% you get +75.5% weapon damage after using Havoc Strike and Stimulant Pack.

Also, the Turian Havoc has Cryo Blast, making enemies even more vulnerable (-25% and -25% on armor).

Why am I thinking of a non-Fitness build ... hm ... I think, I must be crazy.

[Thrasher91604]

You must not have much experience playing this build then on PC, nor reading these forums....

Stim packs don't take sometimes. In a clutch situation they must be reliable, but they are not. Similar for double strike, the second melee doesn't happen frequently.

[Arctican]

Dunvi wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Maybe. I've played one game with him and then spent a respec card on it and didn't bother to spend the points.

I actually sent Eric Fagnan an email last week regarding exactly this buff, complete with the math asking them to do exactly what they did (raise base force to at least 650N, increase evolutions to give at least 10% more). The reason this is a significant buff (as opposed to the original, token buff) is that you now can get enough force to stagger a gold phantom while still taking both radius and the turian weapon passives at rank 4, the only real bonus this class has over any vanguard. It has nothing to do with the damage amount, it has to do with the force.

This buff basically puts him in an interesting niche similar to the drellguard, who sacrifices health and shields (and a lot of them) for some crazy good weapon passives. Similarly, the turian havoc has a weaker charge in exchange for some really good weapon passives. It's something to consider, basically.

If you want to see the PM, I have a copy saved in my gists, I can link it.

Yes, this was a good analysis.

Thank you! I try my best.

ETA: a link to a copy of the PM. I discovered some interesting conclusions about various vanguards in it, for those of you who are not inclined to crunch numbers yourselves.

Very well thought out! Perhaps you could put forth more analysis for other things that needs buff in the future. 

[Beep Il]

Wouldn't call that a significant buff. Mediocre at best.

[cdzander]

It was already one of the few kits I have 200 waves done with. I don't grind any particular challenge, I just let them happen as I play.

[Arctican]

Thrasher91604 wrote...

You must not have much experience playing this build then on PC, nor reading these forums....

Stim packs don't take sometimes. In a clutch situation they must be reliable, but they are not. Similar for double strike, the second melee doesn't happen frequently.

Dual-strike requires good timing for the second melee to happen. Stim pack doesn't activate at times, but those are pretty rare for me and I used to go crazy over the melee Havoc in beginning of Retaliation.. 

[Raptor2023]

Dunvi wrote...

Maybe. I've played one game with him and then spent a respec card on it and didn't bother to spend the points.

I actually sent Eric Fagnan an email last week regarding exactly this buff, complete with the math asking them to do exactly what they did (raise base force to at least 650N, increase evolutions to give at least 10% more). The reason this is a significant buff (as opposed to the original, token buff) is that you now can get enough force to stagger a gold phantom while still taking both radius and the turian weapon passives at rank 4, the only real bonus this class has over any vanguard. It has nothing to do with the damage amount, it has to do with the force.

This buff basically puts him in an interesting niche similar to the drellguard, who sacrifices health and shields (and a lot of them) for some crazy good weapon passives. Similarly, the turian havoc has a weaker charge in exchange for some really good weapon passives. It's something to consider, basically.

If you want to see the PM, I have a copy saved in my gists, I can link it.

Good call.

[Dunvi]

Thrasher91604 wrote...

You must not have much experience playing this build then on PC, nor reading these forums....

Stim packs don't take sometimes. In a clutch situation they must be reliable, but they are not. Similar for double strike, the second melee doesn't happen frequently.

Same response I give for shield boost and ops packs. Use them preemptively, not as a response. These powers all give a momentary invulnerability period, which is far more valuable/significant than the shield restore.

And I flat out admitted I don't play Turian Havoc, and I don't really like the TGI much either. Doesn't mean I don't know how to use the powers.

[BridgeBurner]

Dunvi wrote...

Maybe. I've played one game with him and then spent a respec card on it and didn't bother to spend the points.

I actually sent Eric Fagnan an email last week regarding exactly this buff, complete with the math asking them to do exactly what they did (raise base force to at least 650N, increase evolutions to give at least 10% more). The reason this is a significant buff (as opposed to the original, token buff) is that you now can get enough force to stagger a gold phantom while still taking both radius and the turian weapon passives at rank 4, the only real bonus this class has over any vanguard. It has nothing to do with the damage amount, it has to do with the force.

This buff basically puts him in an interesting niche similar to the drellguard, who sacrifices health and shields (and a lot of them) for some crazy good weapon passives. Similarly, the turian havoc has a weaker charge in exchange for some really good weapon passives. It's something to consider, basically.

If you want to see the PM, I have a copy saved in my gists, I can link it.

Good job Miss, now can you correlate some numbers on why krogan melee should be improved?

It sucks that krogan almost a year after launch are still inferior to infiltrators who are hitting almost as hard as krogan sentinels in melee (in some cases harder)... with weapon and power bonuses on top of that.

That's completely ridiculous.

Is it too much to ask that krogan be the best at melee combat? Yeah, it is I suppose. Goddess forbid that any class who's not an infiltrator be good at ANYTHING in this game.

Grumble, grumble.

Modifié par Annomander, 29 janvier 2013 - 10:03 .

[Original Twigman]

Thrasher91604 wrote...

You must not have much experience playing this build then on PC, nor reading these forums....

Stim packs don't take sometimes. In a clutch situation they must be reliable, but they are not. Similar for double strike, the second melee doesn't happen frequently.

You seem very appreciative of this game.

[Dunvi]

Arctican wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Maybe. I've played one game with him and then spent a respec card on it and didn't bother to spend the points.

I actually sent Eric Fagnan an email last week regarding exactly this buff, complete with the math asking them to do exactly what they did (raise base force to at least 650N, increase evolutions to give at least 10% more). The reason this is a significant buff (as opposed to the original, token buff) is that you now can get enough force to stagger a gold phantom while still taking both radius and the turian weapon passives at rank 4, the only real bonus this class has over any vanguard. It has nothing to do with the damage amount, it has to do with the force.

This buff basically puts him in an interesting niche similar to the drellguard, who sacrifices health and shields (and a lot of them) for some crazy good weapon passives. Similarly, the turian havoc has a weaker charge in exchange for some really good weapon passives. It's something to consider, basically.

If you want to see the PM, I have a copy saved in my gists, I can link it.

Yes, this was a good analysis.

Thank you! I try my best.

ETA: a link to a copy of the PM. I discovered some interesting conclusions about various vanguards in it, for those of you who are not inclined to crunch numbers yourselves.

Very well thought out! Perhaps you could put forth more analysis for other things that needs buff in the future. 

I have a couple others I've been thinking about, though none of them have happened yet for various reasons - sabotage, for instance, both because the devs obviously seem to be terrified of the power and because I never saw the (apparently) OP version at release (latecomer to the game).

Quarian Marksman is the kit I'm thinking about at the moment - his passives are still significantly weaker than the old-turian passives, and a dodge only counters the old-turian better shields, leaving him strictly worse still. I wish the old-turian headshot bonus wasn't so stupid high, because I'd like to say that old-turians should get the stability bonuses and overall weapon bonuses, and the QMS should get the crazy headshot bonuses giving each of them a niche...

[Dunvi]

Annomander wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Maybe. I've played one game with him and then spent a respec card on it and didn't bother to spend the points.

I actually sent Eric Fagnan an email last week regarding exactly this buff, complete with the math asking them to do exactly what they did (raise base force to at least 650N, increase evolutions to give at least 10% more). The reason this is a significant buff (as opposed to the original, token buff) is that you now can get enough force to stagger a gold phantom while still taking both radius and the turian weapon passives at rank 4, the only real bonus this class has over any vanguard. It has nothing to do with the damage amount, it has to do with the force.

This buff basically puts him in an interesting niche similar to the drellguard, who sacrifices health and shields (and a lot of them) for some crazy good weapon passives. Similarly, the turian havoc has a weaker charge in exchange for some really good weapon passives. It's something to consider, basically.

If you want to see the PM, I have a copy saved in my gists, I can link it.

Good job Miss, now can you correlate some numbers on why krogan melee should be improved?

It sucks that krogan almost a year after launch are still inferior to infiltrators who are hitting almost as hard as krogan sentinels in melee (in some cases harder)... with weapon and power bonuses on top of that.

That's completely ridiculous.

Is it too much to ask that krogan be the best at melee combat? Yeah, it is I suppose. Goddess forbid that any class who's not an infiltrator be good at ANYTHING in this game.

Grumble, grumble.

I can try. That's another one on my list, hasn't happened yet because I can only find the problem and am having trouble concluding a solution...

[Learn To Love Yourself]

Until they buff Havoc Strike to the point that it can take down a Gold unshielded Atlas in a single cast, I am not touching the Havoc.

[Thrasher91604]

Dunvi wrote...

Thrasher91604 wrote...

You must not have much experience playing this build then on PC, nor reading these forums....

Stim packs don't take sometimes. In a clutch situation they must be reliable, but they are not. Similar for double strike, the second melee doesn't happen frequently.

Same response I give for shield boost and ops packs. Use them preemptively, not as a response. These powers all give a momentary invulnerability period, which is far more valuable/significant than the shield restore.

And I flat out admitted I don't play Turian Havoc, and I don't really like the TGI much either. Doesn't mean I don't know how to use the powers.

Well that explains it. A preemptive stim pack that fails can be just as bad as an emergency stim pack that fails. Buggy powers and moves are buggy, and should be fixed.

[032OffensiveBias]

I use him as a melee class and top scoreboards alot.
Someone once posted a dual strike tactic with him and I use a modified version of it and I must say, it works VERY well,. He's also looks cool and has a sick melee animation

[Dunvi]

Thrasher91604 wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Thrasher91604 wrote...

You must not have much experience playing this build then on PC, nor reading these forums....

Stim packs don't take sometimes. In a clutch situation they must be reliable, but they are not. Similar for double strike, the second melee doesn't happen frequently.

Same response I give for shield boost and ops packs. Use them preemptively, not as a response. These powers all give a momentary invulnerability period, which is far more valuable/significant than the shield restore.

And I flat out admitted I don't play Turian Havoc, and I don't really like the TGI much either. Doesn't mean I don't know how to use the powers.

Well that explains it. A preemptive stim pack that fails can be just as bad as an emergency stim pack that fails. Buggy powers and moves are buggy, and should be fixed.

... that doesn't explain anything. There's nothing buggy about stimpacks, just the netcode in general and there's not much they can do about that.

[Knockingbr4in]

A quick analysis on my part tells me I won't spend a respec card on my 0/6/6/6/6 build.

edit: brainfart typo

Modifié par Knockingbr4in, 29 janvier 2013 - 10:30 .

[.458]

Thrasher91604 wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Thrasher91604 wrote...

You must not have much experience playing this build then on PC, nor reading these forums....

Stim packs don't take sometimes. In a clutch situation they must be reliable, but they are not. Similar for double strike, the second melee doesn't happen frequently.

Same response I give for shield boost and ops packs. Use them preemptively, not as a response. These powers all give a momentary invulnerability period, which is far more valuable/significant than the shield restore.

And I flat out admitted I don't play Turian Havoc, and I don't really like the TGI much either. Doesn't mean I don't know how to use the powers.

Well that explains it. A preemptive stim pack that fails can be just as bad as an emergency stim pack that fails. Buggy powers and moves are buggy, and should be fixed.

The bugs are mainly network issues. People see what fails and often don't realize these are only the signs and symptoms. In terms of networking, the structure of data and amount of data has a big impact on what you see fail. Particular maps and particular powers may look buggier than they are because of how they go across the network. I wouldn't blame the powers for being buggy in this case, blame networking. Rearranging data could vastly improve it.

[Shampoohorn]

Annomander wrote...
...

Is it too much to ask that krogan be the best at melee combat? Yeah, it is I suppose. Goddess forbid that any class who's not an infiltrator be good at ANYTHING in this game.

Grumble, grumble.

You mean like the GI being able to do 4682 damage per pulse... to armor!?  AoE?!  (fyi with proxy debuff)

Or the Huntress topping all other kit's 5456 armor damage?  Also AoE.

Kind of makes the ultimate krogan soldier's 3977 armor damage seem a bit paltry.  Even the Batarian's Falcon Punch (4106) doesn't measure up.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Significant buff?  The power doesn't even work.  It misses half the time.  You can't rely on it at all.  It's garbage. 

.458 wrote...

Thrasher91604 wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Thrasher91604 wrote...

You must not have much experience playing this build then on PC, nor reading these forums....

Stim
packs don't take sometimes. In a clutch situation they must be
reliable, but they are not. Similar for double strike, the second melee
doesn't happen frequently.

Same response I give for
shield boost and ops packs. Use them preemptively, not as a response.
These powers all give a momentary invulnerability period, which is far
more valuable/significant than the shield restore.

And I flat out
admitted I don't play Turian Havoc, and I don't really like
the TGI much either. Doesn't mean I don't know how to use the powers.

Well
that explains it. A preemptive stim pack that fails can be just as bad
as an emergency stim pack that fails. Buggy powers and moves are buggy,
and should be fixed.

The bugs are mainly network
issues. People see what fails and often don't realize these are only the
signs and symptoms. In terms of networking, the structure of data and
amount of data has a big impact on what you see fail. Particular maps
and particular powers may look buggier than they are because of how they
go across the network. I wouldn't blame the powers for being buggy in
this case, blame networking. Rearranging data could vastly improve it.

I'm really getting tired of people blaming this game's broken **** on lag.  If the network makes the power fail completely a high percentage of the time, even when you're Host,  that power doesn't belong in the game, period.

BTW, who the hell is Dunvi, and why is Fagnan personally responding to his ideas?

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 29 janvier 2013 - 10:28 .

[Shampoohorn]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Significant buff?  The power doesn't even work.  It misses half the time.  You can't rely on it at all.  It's garbage. 

Works fine for me.:innocent:

[Thrasher91604]

Dunvi wrote...

Thrasher91604 wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Thrasher91604 wrote...

You must not have much experience playing this build then on PC, nor reading these forums....

Stim packs don't take sometimes. In a clutch situation they must be reliable, but they are not. Similar for double strike, the second melee doesn't happen frequently.

Same response I give for shield boost and ops packs. Use them preemptively, not as a response. These powers all give a momentary invulnerability period, which is far more valuable/significant than the shield restore.

And I flat out admitted I don't play Turian Havoc, and I don't really like the TGI much either. Doesn't mean I don't know how to use the powers.

Well that explains it. A preemptive stim pack that fails can be just as bad as an emergency stim pack that fails. Buggy powers and moves are buggy, and should be fixed.

... that doesn't explain anything. There's nothing buggy about stimpacks, just the netcode in general and there's not much they can do about that.

Wrong. Most other powers are much more reliable. Stim packs about the worst. Armwaving excuses about the netcode beeing bad in general shows you really haven't the experience to talk about this.