177 réponses à ce sujet

[ThomasakaDes_]

Maybe on bronze and silver, just to get the challenges for him done.
I've only used him once, but not becaus I thought he was weak, I just didn't like him.

[Necrotron]

I love the Havoc. Amazing invulnerability frames during Havoc Strike, fantastic dodge, stim packs, ect. What is not to like? Havoc Strike + Immediate Dodge afterwards will let you do amazing things.

Not to mention, they are the king of rezzing in tricky situations. Havoc Strike for stagger, quick rez someone, stim pack, havoc strike or dodge out.

I just bring a AT-Raider and an Acolyte and use my Melee build on gold and go to town. Was hunting down Phantoms today with it.

[niripas]

My pure cryoless build is now happy If you cannot read between lines: you can spend more points in weapon damage. Phantoms still will die fast Before the stim nerf he could dance with two phantoms simultaneously, now he can do this with one + second one gets full blast to the face

[MetalDeggial]

I don't see how this buff was "significant". It doesn't change the Havoc's HS + HM strategy at all, since he never needed his weapon passives due to this. You know what would've been a significant buff? Making Cryo Blast prime for CEs without the need to fully freeze opponents.

I personally got bored of the so-called dual strike months ago. If someone comes up with an amazing build involving Havoc Strike, let me now, but for now... zzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

Modifié par MetalDeggial, 30 janvier 2013 - 01:55 .

[DSxCallOfBooty-]

1. Havoc Strike
2. Backdash
3. Shoot
4. ???
5. Profit

[HolyAvenger]

Been running a HS-less build. Will respec but not expecting much difference or to fall in love with HS.

[JumboWheat01]

Sure I'll use him... when I unlock him. I would've used him before the buff anyhoo. Jetpacks are awesome.

[oO Stryfe Oo]

Dunvi wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Dunvi wrote...
snip

Yes, this was a good analysis.

Thank you! I try my best.

ETA: a link to a copy of the PM. I discovered some interesting conclusions about various vanguards in it, for those of you who are not inclined to crunch numbers yourselves.

All I got out of that is that they actually do take the time to read forum member's suggestions. That's actually kind of cool.

Modifié par oO Stryfe Oo, 30 janvier 2013 - 02:10 .

[Doctor Trick]

I just started trying him out last week, should be interesting with the buff. Although I still haven't found a weapon I like on him.

[.458]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Significant buff?  The power doesn't even work.  It misses half the time.  You can't rely on it at all.  It's garbage. 

.458 wrote...

Thrasher91604 wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Thrasher91604 wrote...

You must not have much experience playing this build then on PC, nor reading these forums....

Stim
packs don't take sometimes. In a clutch situation they must be
reliable, but they are not. Similar for double strike, the second melee
doesn't happen frequently.

Same response I give for
shield boost and ops packs. Use them preemptively, not as a response.
These powers all give a momentary invulnerability period, which is far
more valuable/significant than the shield restore.

And I flat out
admitted I don't play Turian Havoc, and I don't really like
the TGI much either. Doesn't mean I don't know how to use the powers.

Well
that explains it. A preemptive stim pack that fails can be just as bad
as an emergency stim pack that fails. Buggy powers and moves are buggy,
and should be fixed.

The bugs are mainly network
issues. People see what fails and often don't realize these are only the
signs and symptoms. In terms of networking, the structure of data and
amount of data has a big impact on what you see fail. Particular maps
and particular powers may look buggier than they are because of how they
go across the network. I wouldn't blame the powers for being buggy in
this case, blame networking. Rearranging data could vastly improve it.

I'm really getting tired of people blaming this game's broken **** on lag.  If the network makes the power fail completely a high percentage of the time, even when you're Host,  that power doesn't belong in the game, period.

BTW, who the hell is Dunvi, and why is Fagnan personally responding to his ideas?

Dunvi is a logical, well-thought person. Played many games with her. I think she is also an engineering student. I've been a software engineer a long time myself, and worked on networking issues enough to know them.

Lag was not mentioned when I mentioned network issues. The combination of how several events go over the network to describe a single event, combined with the way the UDP networking protocol was used, is what is wrong for the most part. Granted, host will not fail many things when it is a network issue, but there are exceptions even for that since the host talks to off-hosts.

There are times I've been asked to post on this topic, and I know I could enlighten quite a few people, but it's one of those topics that would fill pages and require patience to read. Some things are indeed just lag, but I have doubts that any code would be rewritten for cases where it improves the game (the description would for example allow complete cure of missile glitching while improving performance).

Let me ask you this question...what is your experience programming UDP networks, real time distributed programming, and working with teams of people who have only specifications to go by in programming their components?

Modifié par .458, 30 janvier 2013 - 02:35 .

[Kalas Magnus]

just tried him out.

He can tank really well. I hosted which help. Took on at least 5 geth units at once.

Should've taken grenade gear but whatever.

[JiceDuresh]

Check me Origin name.

He pretty much is the only guy I use any more, and now I just feel like even more of a boss.

[mybudgee]

I used him all weekend, so yeah

[pyroboy2290]

IllusiveManJr wrote...

Turian Havoc got a significant buff, will you be using him now? 

Well, personally I used him before, however I will still be speccing out of havoc strike as it continues to be mostly useless except perhaps as a means of convayance to areas not quickly reached by normal jetpacking.

[SavagelyEpic]

Don't think you've fooled us. A mere name change cannot hide you.

You will always be TIM11 to me.

[CitizenThom]

Yes. Soloing with him on bronze gave me a better feel on how to play him... yes Havoc Strike is like a Biotic Charge... but it's not designed for being spammed. Yes bronze has many more unshielded enemies than Gold and Platinum, but Cryo Blast seems to have a brief stagger effect on shielded/barriered/armored (non-boss) enemies.

My opinion is that Havoc should be played in a way similar to the Batarian Soldier. Carry a heavy hitting weapon, don't worry abou the impact on cooldowns. Havoc Strike is something like Ballistic Blades, a 6-7 second cooldown is all you need. Cryo Blast certianly doesn't care all that much about how heavy a weapon you carry.

I used him on a Bronze Solo for the weekend objectiv carrying the Typhoon, and suddenly the class felt right. Havoc Strike is for when you get swarmed... or to get close to those enemy troops that like to snipe you all day long. It's like Ballistic Blades, but can be used on enemies at longer ranges.

[Moress]

hellz yes...he was my favorite kit the day he was released...all these havoc strike buffs are just gravy making him better and better

[Admiral Dreck]

I love to play him.

But I don't use Havok Strike.
I want to!

But it constantly freezes my Xbox.. :|

[l3en]

I finished the 200 waves completed with him like 2 hours before the buff came out '

[Arctican]

Dunvi wrote...

Arctican wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Maybe. I've played one game with him and then spent a respec card on it and didn't bother to spend the points.

I actually sent Eric Fagnan an email last week regarding exactly this buff, complete with the math asking them to do exactly what they did (raise base force to at least 650N, increase evolutions to give at least 10% more). The reason this is a significant buff (as opposed to the original, token buff) is that you now can get enough force to stagger a gold phantom while still taking both radius and the turian weapon passives at rank 4, the only real bonus this class has over any vanguard. It has nothing to do with the damage amount, it has to do with the force.

This buff basically puts him in an interesting niche similar to the drellguard, who sacrifices health and shields (and a lot of them) for some crazy good weapon passives. Similarly, the turian havoc has a weaker charge in exchange for some really good weapon passives. It's something to consider, basically.

If you want to see the PM, I have a copy saved in my gists, I can link it.

Yes, this was a good analysis.

Thank you! I try my best.

ETA: a link to a copy of the PM. I discovered some interesting conclusions about various vanguards in it, for those of you who are not inclined to crunch numbers yourselves.

Very well thought out! Perhaps you could put forth more analysis for other things that needs buff in the future. 

I have a couple others I've been thinking about, though none of them have happened yet for various reasons - sabotage, for instance, both because the devs obviously seem to be terrified of the power and because I never saw the (apparently) OP version at release (latecomer to the game).

Quarian Marksman is the kit I'm thinking about at the moment - his passives are still significantly weaker than the old-turian passives, and a dodge only counters the old-turian better shields, leaving him strictly worse still. I wish the old-turian headshot bonus wasn't so stupid high, because I'd like to say that old-turians should get the stability bonuses and overall weapon bonuses, and the QMS should get the crazy headshot bonuses giving each of them a niche...

Hmm, 30% is still pretty good weapons damage passive IMO. Thats only 2.5% away from the max Drell weapons damage. The dodge is really useful in cases where high shields won;t save you, like furthering yourself from sync-kills. Plus I believe that Tactical Scan is a superior debuff power vs. Prox Mine.

I was actually thinking more along the lines of buffing most of the non-UR AR we have in our current availible weapons. Most are heavy for what they can do. Their DPS for the most part loses to their counterparts in other weapons classes, even the SMG.

[Feneckus]

Had a couple of games with the Havoc, I was quite surprised. He's pretty damn good now. 

[Dunvi]

Feneckus wrote...

Had a couple of games with the Havoc, I was quite surprised. He's pretty damn good now. 

Dude, you were kicking my ass, and that was with you being sync killed 5 times a game or something (that brute kill on Hydra... that one was pretty funny actually). Can I ask how you specced him out?

[Feneckus]

Dunvi wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Had a couple of games with the Havoc, I was quite surprised. He's pretty damn good now. 

Dude, you were kicking my ass, and that was with you being sync killed 5 times a game or something (that brute kill on Hydra... that one was pretty funny actually). Can I ask how you specced him out?

All weapon damage in the passive
Havoc Strike for damage, weapon synergy and radius
No fitness

And of course, a Claymore 

Claymore bodyshot + havoc strike = tech explosion and your Claymore reloads itself during Havoc Strike's animation.

Cryo Blast + Claymore + Havoc Strike + Claymore does sick damage.

[DJ Airsurfer]

Feneckus wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Had a couple of games with the Havoc, I was quite surprised. He's pretty damn good now. 

Dude, you were kicking my ass, and that was with you being sync killed 5 times a game or something (that brute kill on Hydra... that one was pretty funny actually). Can I ask how you specced him out?

All weapon damage in the passive
Havoc Strike for damage, weapon synergy and radius
No fitness

And of course, a Claymore 

Claymore bodyshot + havoc strike = tech explosion and your Claymore reloads itself during Havoc Strike's animation.

Cryo Blast + Claymore + Havoc Strike + Claymore does sick damage.

How fragile is the No Fitness Havoc? :I 

[iOnlySignIn]

Feneckus wrote...

All weapon damage in the passive
Havoc Strike for damage, weapon synergy and radius
No fitness

And of course, a Claymore 

Claymore bodyshot + havoc strike = tech explosion and your Claymore reloads itself during Havoc Strike's animation.

Cryo Blast + Claymore + Havoc Strike + Claymore does sick damage.

I use Claymore too, but 36665. Havoc Strike serves no purpose besides occasional reload/escape.
Still quite squishy on Gold with no consumables. But Cryo Blast makes easy headshots. 

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 30 janvier 2013 - 06:15 .