59 réponses à ce sujet

[Nighteye2]

Interesting read. That article reminded me of an interesting loophole, though: even if neither you nor Alistair or Loghain impregnates her, there is still that Orlesian grey warden to do the job in your stead to ensure the Child will be there for the sequel either way, whether you choose to sleep with her or not.

[Herr Uhl]

Nighteye2 wrote...

Interesting read. That article reminded me of an interesting loophole, though: even if neither you nor Alistair or Loghain impregnates her, there is still that Orlesian grey warden to do the job in your stead to ensure the Child will be there for the sequel either way, whether you choose to sleep with her or not.

He apparently can't do it due to being a warden for too long.

If he did, why did the warden die? Placebo?

[Ubasti]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Ubasti wrote...

And still, I would say Morrigan comes out as a different kind of person when the main character is a female, and also I guess, if the player is a female and sees Morrigan as another example of her own gender.

What do you mean?

Morrigan's words when she tells the PC that she never expected to find a friend, even a sister, when she left the wilds with the wardens. And the hesitation with what she says this, and the expression that has been animated on her face when she says it. And all the talks with Morrigan, to me they seem to be made by a person who is not so sure of herself after all. Probably interpreted that way due to my own relationship with my own mother though...(that can be a difficult thing for some women in real life as well). So my main trusted Morrigan and her offer to be sincere, even though I myself had doubts, but I didn't metagame my own doubts into the game.

[novaseeker]

She treats female characters differently, clearly. Which makes perfect plot sense, because as she says when making her proposal at the end of the game, the whole idea was to secure a warden's seed -- so the nature of her relationship with a male warden will be, quite deliberately, very different and in effect fundamentally manipulative.



She is a fun and well-written character, but after the first play-through I found her more irritating than anything else.

[InvaderErl]

novaseeker wrote...
so the nature of her relationship with a male warden will be, quite deliberately, very different and in effect fundamentally manipulative.

Morrigan does a pretty ****** poor job if that's the case, without the player initiating anything she what flirts with male Wardens once or twice on her own? Yep, real manipulation going on there. Its only when the player shows an interest when she does the whole Tis Cold in My Tent thing.

Otherwise you can remain strictly friends with her if you wish and have a relationship that is almost identical to the female Warden one.

And when there is a relationship and maintaining it would clearly be to her advantage she instead freaks out and tries to break it off twice.

So to sum up, I disagree.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 09 janvier 2010 - 03:16 .

[Ubasti]

novaseeker wrote...

She treats female characters differently, clearly. Which makes perfect plot sense, because as she says when making her proposal at the end of the game, the whole idea was to secure a warden's seed -- so the nature of her relationship with a male warden will be, quite deliberately, very different and in effect fundamentally manipulative.

She is a fun and well-written character, but after the first play-through I found her more irritating than anything else.

I think you got to the point here. She's been very well written, and the difference if you play a male or a female character is one proof of it. Though I must say I have never found her irritating, but then again, I have mostly played female characters. And my PCs always somehow get her approval all the time, even though I'm not trying to please her that much. (Well, my husband thinks she's much like I was when we met, maybe I just answer to her like I would to younger me, hehe.)

[Doyle41]

Morrigan was only frustrating to me because she doesn't want you, but she forces you to choose between her and Leliana. She also dissaproves when you kill Kitty. Hmmm.

[InvaderErl]

That always made no sense to me, she is clearly not cool with demons via her trip into the fade during the Connor quest. Weird.

[Doyle41]

http://www.1up.com/d...=17&cId=2019479



Any idea what this screenshot is about? I found it odd that Morrigan was being attacked. Can you even kill her?

[InvaderErl]

Is that the Urn? Looks like he poured the blood in.

[Doyle41]

That what was suggested, but would this attack provoke the death of Morrigan? Actually it looks as though he killed his whole party except Morrigan. Hmm, rather curious game choice. Wonder how that would affect DLC content or the end of the game.

Modifié par Doyle41, 09 janvier 2010 - 03:57 .

[InvaderErl]

I think the player is attacking Leliana who with Wynne are attacking Morrigan who is still in the party.

[Ulicus]

Hmm. An enjoyable opinion piece that makes some interesting points regarding BioWare titles -- and another comparison between Zevran and Jack Harkness! Thanks for the link, Maria. Ultimately, though, I think it demonstrates a lack of research in that the author hasn't explored many options (and certainly not all of them) at the time of writing, misrepresents (unintentionally, it looks like) certain events and states as fact things that aren't true.

Modifié par Ulicus, 09 janvier 2010 - 05:19 .

[tallon1982]

God baby is the key to ending the darkspawn for good?

[MiG-77]

Herr Uhl wrote...


He apparently can't do it due to being a warden for too long.

If he did, why did the warden die? Placebo?

Flemeth could just have saved more wardens from Ostagar and just would not told PC (as a backup plan). As to why warden dies is easy to explain. That kind of explosions can kill people if you get close enought.

[Ulicus]

If the Archbaby is born regardless of the Warden's decision, it could always be that the ritual was simply the easiest and most assured way to spawn the kid, rather than the only way. If they want to make the Archbaby the focus of the sequel or an expansion, there's all manner of things BioWare could do.

[robertthebard]

jsachun wrote...

But thats what(old god corrupted by the tevinter mages) the archdemon is. Collective spirit of the Blight.

No.  It is Old God tainted by darkspawn, unless you can show me somewhere in game where Tevintar mages are in league with the darkspawn?

[ReubenLiew]

Read the article, the bit where she walks off pregnant even though you didn't do the ritual, has nothing to do with the magical sex rite. As David Gaider said, there are more ways to impregnate a woman than with black magic.

[robertthebard]

MiG-77 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...


He apparently can't do it due to being a warden for too long.

If he did, why did the warden die? Placebo?

Flemeth could just have saved more wardens from Ostagar and just would not told PC (as a backup plan). As to why warden dies is easy to explain. That kind of explosions can kill people if you get close enought.

Then why doesn't the exact same explosion occuring exactly the same way kill the Warden that makes the killing blow with the ritual?  It's all fun to pretend that these things don't matter but the fact is, the only difference between dead warden for the killing blow and no dead warden for the killing blow is the ritual.

[MiG-77]

robertthebard wrote...

[Then why doesn't the exact same explosion occuring exactly the same way kill the Warden that makes the killing blow with the ritual?  It's all fun to pretend that these things don't matter but the fact is, the only difference between dead warden for the killing blow and no dead warden for the killing blow is the ritual.

Because you did just make choice of "die or not to die". What I told is just how developers could continue God Child story and not dissmiss any choice player made.

[robertthebard]

MiG-77 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

[Then why doesn't the exact same explosion occuring exactly the same way kill the Warden that makes the killing blow with the ritual?  It's all fun to pretend that these things don't matter but the fact is, the only difference between dead warden for the killing blow and no dead warden for the killing blow is the ritual.

Because you did just make choice of "die or not to die". What I told is just how developers could continue God Child story and not dissmiss any choice player made.

Except your version does dismiss any choice the player may have made.  Morrigan states she needs a freshly tainted GW for the ritual to work.  There are no other Wardens present, and if they had another stashed away in Flemeth's hut, and you kill Flemeth, don't you think you'd have found one?  The fact that you can indeed kill Flemeth, even if it is, as Morrigan suggests, temporary, that would mean that it's not likely that, giving that we all presume she had foreknowledge of the ritual, means that she's not going to be gung ho about sending you back to find the Grey Warden they have stashed just in case.

You do the ritual, you get Old God baby, and don't die.  You don't do the ritual, no Old God baby, and somebody must die.  This is the only "black and white" choice in the game.  If Morrigan runs off and does the ritual with another Grey Warden, then nobody dies.

[MiG-77]

robertthebard wrote...

Except your version does dismiss any choice the player may have made.  Morrigan states she needs a freshly tainted GW for the ritual to work.  There are no other Wardens present, and if they had another stashed away in Flemeth's hut, and you kill Flemeth, don't you think you'd have found one?  The fact that you can indeed kill Flemeth, even if it is, as Morrigan suggests, temporary, that would mean that it's not likely that, giving that we all presume she had foreknowledge of the ritual, means that she's not going to be gung ho about sending you back to find the Grey Warden they have stashed just in case.

Those other wardens dont need to be stashed in Flemeth hut. There is lot of area where they might be. And Morrigan knew about the ritual. She confess it in some dialogue if I remember right.

You do the ritual, you get Old God baby, and don't die.  You don't do the ritual, no Old God baby, and somebody must die.  This is the only "black and white" choice in the game.  If Morrigan runs off and does the ritual with another Grey Warden, then nobody dies.

No it wont dissmiss player choices. Those choices just dont end to what player expect and that is normal thru game (and in RL). In one player wanted to be good and sacrificed himself to end blight and  stop reborn of old god. Didnt work out lilke he wanted. In other he wanted to live and just stop blight.

Modifié par MiG-77, 09 janvier 2010 - 07:55 .

[Hirdas]

I read somewhere that if you didn't do the ritual as male warden but did have a relation, there will be a baby anyway?

[Bhatair]

I wanted to name the kid Grendel but Morrigan wouldn't let me

[robertthebard]

MiG-77 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Except your version does dismiss any choice the player may have made.  Morrigan states she needs a freshly tainted GW for the ritual to work.  There are no other Wardens present, and if they had another stashed away in Flemeth's hut, and you kill Flemeth, don't you think you'd have found one?  The fact that you can indeed kill Flemeth, even if it is, as Morrigan suggests, temporary, that would mean that it's not likely that, giving that we all presume she had foreknowledge of the ritual, means that she's not going to be gung ho about sending you back to find the Grey Warden they have stashed just in case.

Those other wardens dont need to be stashed in Flemeth hut. There is lot of area where they might be. And Morrigan knew about the ritual. She confess it in some dialogue if I remember right.

You do the ritual, you get Old God baby, and don't die.  You don't do the ritual, no Old God baby, and somebody must die.  This is the only "black and white" choice in the game.  If Morrigan runs off and does the ritual with another Grey Warden, then nobody dies.

No it wont dissmiss player choices. Those choices just dont end to what player expect and that is normal trhu game (and in RL). In one player wanted to be good and sacrificed himself to end blight and  stop reborn of old god. Didnt work out lilke he wanted. In other he wanted to live and just stop blight.

Ok, let's take this from the top.  When an Archdemon dies, it's essence jumps into a tainted body.  If no GW's are present, then it jumps into a darkspawn, which is soulless, and acts as the ultimate vessel for the Archdemon, and the Blight continues.  If a GW kills the Archdemon, the essence jumps into the GW, killing both.  If you do the Dark Ritual, the essence jumps into the baby.  No essence jumps into the GW, and nobody dies.  This is all explained in game.  It's pretty simple.  No ritual equals dead GW, ritual equals Old God baby, and no dead GW.  From what we know about the ritual, it doesn't matter which GW does the ritual, and it doesn't matter which one kills it.  In fact, if you do the ritual, the PC automatically goes into the Final Blow cutscene.  So no, Morrigan doesn't run off and sleep with another GW.  In fact, we know from the epilog that if you didn't romance Morrigan, or were a female PC, that somebody matching her description is in Orlais, in some noble's court.  It never mentions her being pregnant.  To dispel your most obvious next answer, if you do romance her, and deny her the ritual, she can indeed wind up pregnant.  As has been pointed out, however, Dark Rituals are not the only way to make a baby in Thedas.  You see, when a man and a woman like eachother a whole lot....