59 réponses à ce sujet

[MiG-77]

robertthebard wrote...

Ok, let's take this from the top.  When an Archdemon dies, it's essence jumps into a tainted body.  If no GW's are present, then it jumps into a darkspawn, which is soulless, and acts as the ultimate vessel for the Archdemon, and the Blight continues.  If a GW kills the Archdemon, the essence jumps into the GW, killing both.  If you do the Dark Ritual, the essence jumps into the baby.  No essence jumps into the GW, and nobody dies.  This is all explained in game.  It's pretty simple.  No ritual equals dead GW, ritual equals Old God baby, and no dead GW.  From what we know about the ritual, it doesn't matter which GW does the ritual, and it doesn't matter which one kills it.  In fact, if you do the ritual, the PC automatically goes into the Final Blow cutscene. 

So far I agree...

So no, Morrigan doesn't run off and sleep with another GW. 

 
And you know this how? If you dont do dark ritual with Morrigan she leaves (and you dont know what she does).

In fact, we know from the epilog that if you didn't romance Morrigan, or were a female PC, that somebody matching her description is in Orlais, in some noble's court.  It never mentions her being pregnant.  To dispel your most obvious next answer, if you do romance her, and deny her the ritual, she can indeed wind up pregnant.  As has been pointed out, however, Dark Rituals are not the only way to make a baby in Thedas.  You see, when a man and a woman like eachother a whole lot....

It never mentiones also from how much time has passed. It might be that she still is very early pregnancy or already given a birth. So both end still fits to story.

Modifié par MiG-77, 09 janvier 2010 - 08:07 .

[Cybercat999]

robertthebard wrote...

As has been pointed out, however, Dark Rituals are not the only way to make a baby in Thedas.  You see, when a man and a woman like eachother a whole lot....

Go on...... I am sure lot of us would like to learn more about making babies in Thedas.

[robertthebard]

MiG-77 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Ok, let's take this from the top.  When an Archdemon dies, it's essence jumps into a tainted body.  If no GW's are present, then it jumps into a darkspawn, which is soulless, and acts as the ultimate vessel for the Archdemon, and the Blight continues.  If a GW kills the Archdemon, the essence jumps into the GW, killing both.  If you do the Dark Ritual, the essence jumps into the baby.  No essence jumps into the GW, and nobody dies.  This is all explained in game.  It's pretty simple.  No ritual equals dead GW, ritual equals Old God baby, and no dead GW.  From what we know about the ritual, it doesn't matter which GW does the ritual, and it doesn't matter which one kills it.  In fact, if you do the ritual, the PC automatically goes into the Final Blow cutscene. 

So far I agree...

So no, Morrigan doesn't run off and sleep with another GW. 

 
And you know this how? If you dont do dark ritual with Morrigan she leaves (and you dont know what she does).

In fact, we know from the epilog that if you didn't romance Morrigan, or were a female PC, that somebody matching her description is in Orlais, in some noble's court.  It never mentions her being pregnant.  To dispel your most obvious next answer, if you do romance her, and deny her the ritual, she can indeed wind up pregnant.  As has been pointed out, however, Dark Rituals are not the only way to make a baby in Thedas.  You see, when a man and a woman like eachother a whole lot....

It never mentiones also from how much time has passed. It might be that she still is very early pregnancy or already given a birth. So both end still fits to story.

Ok, now I'm beginning to believe that you are deliberately being dense.  If you agree with the first part, which you say you do, it's nonsensical to believe that she violated the first part, and is carrying an Old God baby, since you agree that that would be impossible.  Remember, you've already agreed that doing the ritual means no dead GW, and the fact that w/out it there is a dead GW means that no ritual was done.

[Ulicus]

MiG:
I seriously doubt that the child in Morrigan's epilogue in the non-ritual ending harbours the soul of an old god. The very fact that the Warden who slays the Archdemon dies goes quite a long way (all the way, in fact) towards proving that she didn't get any sort of ritual done on the eve of battle... not to mention that the epilogue itself states that the ritual wasn't completed (though that may imply that it was started).

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there was some sort of contingency plan. (Though, in all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there wasn't, either)

Modifié par Ulicus, 09 janvier 2010 - 08:19 .

[MiG-77]

robertthebard wrote...

Ok, now I'm beginning to believe that you are deliberately being dense.  If you agree with the first part, which you say you do, it's nonsensical to believe that she violated the first part, and is carrying an Old God baby, since you agree that that would be impossible.  Remember, you've already agreed that doing the ritual means no dead GW, and the fact that w/out it there is a dead GW means that no ritual was done.

Huh? How did I agree it would be imbosible? If player dont do dark ritual morrigan goes to plan B to get other GW. Your player (or Alistair/Loghain) dies because of explosion. In fact that player/Alistair/loghain is sure that he die (as no dark ritual) he dont even try to avoid explosion (no point, you are going to die anyway). If you did dark ritual GW would logically try to save itself from that explosion. 

[MiG-77]

Ulicus wrote...

MiG:
I seriously doubt that the child in Morrigan's epilogue in the non-ritual ending harbours the soul of an old god. The very fact that the Warden who slays the Archdemon dies goes quite a long way (all the way, in fact) towards proving that she didn't get any sort of ritual done on the eve of battle... not to mention that the epilogue itself states that the ritual wasn't completed (though that may imply that it was started).

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there was some sort of contingency plan. (Though, in all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there wasn't, either)

Point is that there are not said anywhere that dark ritual actually failed. You as player and PC just think so in certain endings. Now Im sure that this only is just one possibility to continue to story.

Modifié par MiG-77, 09 janvier 2010 - 09:07 .

[SusanStoHelit]

Interesting article, although wrong on several counts, as already mentioned by others. He even misread 'with child' (pregnant) as 'with a child' (accompanied by a child). Much less sex only once - did he not pursue a relationship with her at all other than obviously doing her quest?



In any case, I'd also like to add that there need not be any difference between male and female pcs and their relationship with Morrigan - other than sex. She says right at the beginning that sex is fine, she's not interested in a relationship or love. She doesn't say love doesn't exist, only that it's not important. Survival is important. Power is important. (Something like that, anyway.) And as long as you can accept that ...



So my male pc had a sexual relationship with her. When she said she wanted to break it off, he said 'cool, that's your choice'. No explosion, no whining, and the progression followed pretty much the 'female' relationships. We were friends, got all those conversation options, the "I may not always be worthy" one, and so on. It's only guys who can't take 'goodbye', who lied (maybe to themselves) when they said that they could walk into the relationship knowing her terms (not permanent) that feel so betrayed.



My thoughts, anyway. I liked Morrigan as a character - she's incredibly conflicted, but goes on with her life the way she sees as right, regardless. I don't like her ethics, I find her incredibly socially maladjusted, and very emotionally damaged - but all those things 'fit' with even the little I know of her background. So I'm not surprised or upset with the way she acts or with what she says. Either she will eventually get past all that, heal and mature - or she won't. But that is up to her.

[robertthebard]

MiG-77 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Ok, now I'm beginning to believe that you are deliberately being dense.  If you agree with the first part, which you say you do, it's nonsensical to believe that she violated the first part, and is carrying an Old God baby, since you agree that that would be impossible.  Remember, you've already agreed that doing the ritual means no dead GW, and the fact that w/out it there is a dead GW means that no ritual was done.

Huh? How did I agree it would be imbosible? If player dont do dark ritual morrigan goes to plan B to get other GW. Your player (or Alistair/Loghain) dies because of explosion. In fact that player/Alistair/loghain is sure that he die (as no dark ritual) he dont even try to avoid explosion (no point, you are going to die anyway). If you did dark ritual GW would logically try to save itself from that explosion. 

Yeah, so regardless of game lore, we'll just go with what you said, so nobody on the roof any where near the Archdemon survives, which means even if you do the ritual, Morrigan dies, no big deal.  Either it's going to kill them, or it's not.  However, I'm really through discussing this.  You have been pointed to all the information you need to see that you are wrong, and yet you persist.  Further discussion is really pointless.

[Ulicus]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

In any case, I'd also like to add that there need not be any difference between male and female pcs and their relationship with Morrigan - other than sex. She says right at the beginning that sex is fine, she's not interested in a relationship or love. She doesn't say love doesn't exist, only that it's not important. Survival is important. Power is important. (Something like that, anyway.) And as long as you can accept that ...

So my male pc had a sexual relationship with her. When she said she wanted to break it off, he said 'cool, that's your choice'. No explosion, no whining, and the progression followed pretty much the 'female' relationships. We were friends, got all those conversation options, the "I may not always be worthy" one, and so on. It's only guys who can't take 'goodbye', who lied (maybe to themselves) when they said that they could walk into the relationship knowing her terms (not permanent) that feel so betrayed.

And miss out on this gem?

Morrigan: After the archdemon is slain, I am gone. You understand this, yes?
Charname: I understand. Thank-you for everything you've done.
Morrigan: *Sadly* There is far more I might have done for you had this been another time and we... been different people. *Sigh* Allow me to say only one thing before we go. I was foolish. This could have been so much easier; yet... I cannot regret what was between us. I will always remember you, my love. Now, let us see this finally done. The arrchdemon awaits.

I'm a sucker for star-crossed lovers.

I never felt remotely betrayed by Morrigan, really (though a couple of my characters did)... I just found the whole thing incredibly sad. When the romance is taken to its conclusion, Morrigan leaves out of "destiny" and "duty", not desire. She can even say at one point she wishes things could be different.

Modifié par Ulicus, 09 janvier 2010 - 10:47 .

[MiG-77]

robertthebard wrote...


Yeah, so regardless of game lore, we'll just go with what you said, so nobody on the roof any where near the Archdemon survives, which means even if you do the ritual, Morrigan dies, no big deal.  Either it's going to kill them, or it's not.  However, I'm really through discussing this.  You have been pointed to all the information you need to see that you are wrong, and yet you persist.  Further discussion is really pointless.

??? How do you suddenly concluded that all that are top of tower dies? Your reasoning is not logical at all. GW that does killing blow only dies becasue hes so close to it (next to it) and is not going to even try to save itself. And in plan B Morrigan can be anywhere on on city and soul would go still to that child.