184 réponses à ce sujet

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

kipac wrote...

There's no way sometimes you would will get sync-killed unless because you're standing damn close to them, with especially an exception of if it's a banshee.

Fixed that for you.

Apparently, I've decided I'm going to be obnoxious today.
:innocent:

[BlackDahlia424]

luciox wrote...

Dokteur Kill wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

The gist of the persons post is correct. sync kills happen 95% of the time because the player made a mistake. There are the very rare cases of a banshee teleporting through a wall and down a level to grab you but most often it is player error that causes it.

I estimate about 80% of my sync kills being down to banshees teleporting through walls.

Same thing here.
More than 80% time sync kills happen to me is: Banshee came up from nowhere and perform a sync kill within 2 seconds.

It's very rare that I get sync killed and realize it's my fault. Banshees going through walls in the #1 reason. Besides that, it's getting vaccuumed to an enemy who never performed a melee move or stunned you in any way. The game overriding your input isn't legit - it's cheap and cheesy.

Also, Phantoms interrupting animations, especially their stun animation. How many times have I charged a Phantom, she gets thrown backwards and as I line up the headshot, she decides she doesn't feel like being stunned and guts me. Cheap.

Modifié par BlackDahlia424, 30 janvier 2013 - 03:38 .

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Oh really?

That video...
showed me my pain. 

[BlackDahlia424]

If they wanted to fix sync-kills, they should make it MANDATORY that you are being stunned for them to activate it.

[Beerfish]

Lord_Sirian wrote...



How is it player error when enemies are supposed to do one thing and do another? I'm mainly talking about Phantoms here. They're supposed to prime their sync-kill with a melee attack. But half the time they just don't. All they need to do is start 0.000000000000000001% of the melee animation, and regardless of whether it was visible or not, they can then sync-kill until they cloak or take cover. That's absurd. That's when you get situations like where someone lashes a Phantom across the map, where it instantly sync-kills someone (has happened to me). 

That's not player error. That's BS. 

Plus how is it player error if they get slashed by a Phantom, run 20 metres away and get magnet-handsed back by the Phantom? Or when you are several feet behind a Brute, and it teleports you around to the front in order to sync kill you. That's not player error, that's a load of absolute nonsense.

lol opponents are supposed to do one thing and don't?  Someone is too used to a formula of how every spawn occurs in one location, every enemy action is painted out in a sequence of events.  Knowing that they do not obey all of these rules you have quoted, stay the hell away from them.  this fits in very nicely with all the anti stasis threads as in people always saying 'you don't need stasis vs phantoms just do the following.

You must be very unlucky or just used to playing too aggressive in that case as I very rarely have those things happen unless I let the dangerous opponent get too close or in a certain location.

[Beerfish]

BlackDahlia424 wrote...

luciox wrote...

Dokteur Kill wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

The gist of the persons post is correct. sync kills happen 95% of the time because the player made a mistake. There are the very rare cases of a banshee teleporting through a wall and down a level to grab you but most often it is player error that causes it.

I estimate about 80% of my sync kills being down to banshees teleporting through walls.

Same thing here.
More than 80% time sync kills happen to me is: Banshee came up from nowhere and perform a sync kill within 2 seconds.

It's very rare that I get sync killed and realize it's my fault. Banshees going through walls in the #1 reason. Besides that, it's getting vaccuumed to an enemy who never performed a melee move or stunned you in any way. The game overriding your input isn't legit - it's cheap and cheesy.

Also, Phantoms interrupting animations, especially their stun animation. How many times have I charged a Phantom, she gets thrown backwards and as I line up the headshot, she decides she doesn't feel like being stunned and guts me. Cheap.

lol, I am loving all these responses.  Have to dredge this topic up next time we have a 'I don't spec into stasis because I easily kill all phantoms by 'insert method here.'.

People saying that 80% of sync kills are cheap and are not their fault?  You people are not playing the same game that I am .

[spudspot]

Beerfish wrote...

Feeble excuses for people that make errors and then blame it on other things.  And I don't count a bunch of lag as a a valid reason to complain about sync kills.

Almost without exception every time I have been sync'd I feel I have made an error.  Not backing out of range fast enough, not being situationally aware, trying to squeeze that last shot in on another opponent.

So I made a mistake if a Banshee jumps in front of my face from outside my FoV and grabs me instantly after that? Note that people were discussing how the audible clues for where the enemies are are a little wonky and that you and me both probably have whitnessed many silent or invisible Banshees.

Or a Phantom that spawns directly behind me, immediately stabs me to death and then camps my corpse only to instakill me right after I get up?

Somewhere around here was also a solo video of somebody who had a Brute spawn directly behind and immediately instakill him.

A friend of mine was instakilled by a Praetorian while that thing went through its dying animation. 

Add lag to all of the abovementioned scenarios and tell me that sync-kills in their current form ain't a little stupid at times.

Modifié par spudspot, 30 janvier 2013 - 03:58 .

[luciox]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

People saying that 80% of sync kills are cheap and are not their fault?  You people are not playing the same game that I am .

 

Or maybe they're just better players than you, get sync-killed less often, but when they do get sync-killed it's due to BS?

Banshee+off-host+lag
Some ppls know what I mean

[Dokteur Kill]

Beerfish wrote...
People saying that 80% of sync kills are cheap and are not their fault?  You people are not playing the same game that I am .

Or, apparently, we just make less mistakes than you do.

The other sync kills are for the most part fairly avoidable.

[Mendelevosa]

Beerfish wrote...

Feeble Reasonable excuses for people that make errors and then blame it on other things  are victims of bad game design and netcoding. And I don't count a bunch of lag as a a valid reason to complain about sync kills.

Almost without exception every time I have been sync'd I feel I have made an error been cheated in some way. Not backing out of range fast enough, not being situationally aware, trying to squeeze that last shot in on another opponent.  Banshee's phasing through walls and telepoerting 3x their normal range, Phantoms grabbing me with their magnet hands and impaling, and Praetorians cnacelling their required melee attack to go straight for the sync kill. These types of mechanics take control away from the player and are never acceptable in any circumstance. This adds tons of frustration and zero fun into the game. Why is Bioware so biased against melee playstyles?

Sorry. Just wanted to fix a few grammatical errors in your post.

Modifié par Mendelevosa, 30 janvier 2013 - 04:12 .

[Aerowind]

Removing post because I can admit when I am wrong.

Modifié par Aerowind, 30 janvier 2013 - 04:55 .

[BlackDahlia424]

Lord_Sirian wrote...
Right... I'll just stay the hell away from half the enemies in the game. Sure, who the hell plays Vanguards anyway? Those are for tryhards and n00bs. 

Enemies in this game are SUPPOSED to have a formula. That's how PvE mechanics work. When there is inconsistency, player skill becomes irrelevant to the equation. Basically the only times I get sync-killed, there is BS involved.

This. On Gold Collectors, being a Vanguard is the absolute worst because you simply can't charge 90% of the enemies in late waves because you know the game will somehow screw you over with a sync-kill that doesn't make sense.

And Phantoms interrupting their own stun is just mind boggling. I'd sure like the ability to do that. How the hell are you supposed to play Vanguard if you can't charge half the enemies in the game?

Inconsistant mechanics force you to lower your DPS to compensate for potentially BS situations. We shouldn't have to account for that crap, but we do.

[UnknownMercenary]

Aerowind wrote...

spudspot wrote...

Chealec wrote...

hint: Phantom DR has **** all to do with her shield; you're actually better throwing a power at her to get her to pull up her shields so that she stands still while you shoot her, that way she does NOT go into her DR dance... this is far less reliable on-host though; and that's the complaint.

Because on host, she will constantly switch back and forth between those two states without any sort of cooldowns which means you're screwed without a hitscan power or charge. 

Also, on the stunlock thingy. I recently had to play on my sister's old notebook at roughly 15fps (no, I wasn't hosting). Chose a SI and managed to not check my loadout so I ended up with using my Mantis instead of the BW. 

Game turned out to be Geth/Hazard Ghost/Gold. Came in second - which doesn't say much since #1 is a friend of mine and will usually outscore me - and we finished the match in < 20min. 

So can I - or other people - work my way around stunlock? Yup. Is fighting Geth annoying as hell because of this? Yup. Does this make stunlock a bad thing? Possibly.

Pretty sure that enemies were missing you BECAUSE of your bad framerate.  Some games rely on your framerate for calculations.  Bad framerate in WH40k: Space Marine multiplayer would get you killed by the same exact same kit, even if you started firing first because you actually fired slower with a slower FPS.  ME3 has its own issues with FPS too.

http://social.biowar...ndex/15711621/1

He was not hosting.

[spudspot]

Aerowind wrote...

Pretty sure that enemies were missing you BECAUSE of your bad framerate.  Some games rely on your framerate for calculations.  Bad framerate in WH40k: Space Marine multiplayer would get you killed by the same exact same kit, even if you started firing first because you actually fired slower with a slower FPS.  ME3 has its own issues with FPS too.

http://social.biowar...ndex/15711621/1

Did you read the part where I wrote I didn't host? If so, did you read the thread you've linked?

[Beerfish]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

People saying that 80% of sync kills are cheap and are not their fault?  You people are not playing the same game that I am .

 

Or maybe they're just better players than you, get sync-killed less often, but when they do get sync-killed it's due to BS?

  Great rebuttle.  This smacks of the very good players just being incredulous that they can actually make a mistake in game and take repsonsibility for it.   The same players that have no problem at all heaping abuse on all the lesser players, noobs, pugs etc.

I got killed due to a sync kill??????    Damn game mechanics!  Just think of these issues as a 'game mechanic' like reload cancelling.

[Beerfish]

spudspot wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Feeble excuses for people that make errors and then blame it on other things.  And I don't count a bunch of lag as a a valid reason to complain about sync kills.

Almost without exception every time I have been sync'd I feel I have made an error.  Not backing out of range fast enough, not being situationally aware, trying to squeeze that last shot in on another opponent.

So I made a mistake if a Banshee jumps in front of my face from outside my FoV and grabs me instantly after that? Note that people were discussing how the audible clues for where the enemies are are a little wonky and that you and me both probably have whitnessed many silent or invisible Banshees.

Or a Phantom that spawns directly behind me, immediately stabs me to death and then camps my corpse only to instakill me right after I get up?

Somewhere around here was also a solo video of somebody who had a Brute spawn directly behind and immediately instakill him.

A friend of mine was instakilled by a Praetorian while that thing went through its dying animation. 

Add lag to all of the abovementioned scenarios and tell me that sync-kills in their current form ain't a little stupid at times.

No, as I said in my post if a banashee teleports through a wall and a down a level and syncs you before you can move that is not your fault.  That however does not happen that often.  Lag is lag, it can kill you agaisnt any opponent, that doesn't make the syncs more unfair.  It's a function of bad connections.

[Blarg]

You're absolutely right, OP.

Sync-kills aren't cheap at all. Magnet hands that pull you into sync-kills when you're already out of range are cheap as hell, though. Oh, and what about when that Banshee teleports beside you and picks you up before you have a chance to move? Is that the player's fault?

And the Phantom bubble isn't cheap, true. It only blocks projectile powers, unlike the Praetorian bubble that blocks all powers. But her flips, which cause 90% DR and result in a Claymore to the face doing almost no damage, definitely is. Not to mention flipping back and forth so much that it takes more than a Typhoon's clip to kill her. Seems fair.

And yeah, staying in hard cover is a great idea against Geth. Or at least it would be, if the Bomber didn't fly over you to stunlock you to death no matter where you are. But I suppose you like not being able to move your character no matter what.

[Beerfish]

Mendelevosa wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Feeble Reasonable excuses for people that make errors and then blame it on other things  are victims of bad game design and netcoding. And I don't count a bunch of lag as a a valid reason to complain about sync kills.

Almost without exception every time I have been sync'd I feel I have made an error been cheated in some way. Not backing out of range fast enough, not being situationally aware, trying to squeeze that last shot in on another opponent.  Banshee's phasing through walls and telepoerting 3x their normal range, Phantoms grabbing me with their magnet hands and impaling, and Praetorians cnacelling their required melee attack to go straight for the sync kill. These types of mechanics take control away from the player and are never acceptable in any circumstance. This adds tons of frustration and zero fun into the game. Why is Bioware so biased against melee playstyles?

Sorry. Just wanted to fix a few grammatical errors in your post.

Funny how it is 'bad game design' when it is a negative but a feature when something is a positive.  Some opponents are very dangerous and deserve a high level of respect.  In a game where players always know spawn points, always know every trick in the book against enemies, play in a way that will be most effective you still need the fear factor. 

You guys (mostly very good players) do realize that the game would be a sheer and utter walk in the park if you made sync kills a totally static feature that only happened under totaly very controlled situations. 

[spudspot]

Beerfish wrote...

No, as I said in my post if a banashee teleports through a wall and a down a level and syncs you before you can move that is not your fault.  That however does not happen that often.  Lag is lag, it can kill you agaisnt any opponent, that doesn't make the syncs more unfair.  It's a function of bad connections.

See, there are unavoidable sync-kills. Since the rest of them are, uhm, avoidable, people being good at avoiding them might rage at a larger proportion of the sync-kills they've had.

Beerfish wrote...
 

You guys (mostly very good players) do realize that the game would be a sheer and utter walk in the park if you made sync kills a totally static feature that only happened under totaly very controlled situations.  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

Of course this would make it easier, it's what happened to the reapers after the magnet hands got fixed. It's still aggrevating at times if the game just decides 'spudspot is gonna spectate for the rest of the wave, yes, that's a good idea' instead of actually making something that is challenging and forces me to make an error. (So I could blame myself.)

It's similar to the geth and their stunlock, of course it makes the game 'harder' but in a way that's just frustrating and penalizes certain kits a lot more than others. 

Modifié par spudspot, 30 janvier 2013 - 04:30 .

[Dokteur Kill]

Beerfish wrote...
  Great rebuttle.  This smacks of the very good players just being incredulous that they can actually make a mistake in game and take repsonsibility for it.

...or maybe we just make less mistakes.

You're generalizing from your own experience. In your case, 95% of sync kills may be due to you screwing up and getting too close to a Phantom or Praetorian. In my case, 80% are down to banshees teleport-grabbing me.

[Beerfish]

blaaaaaaaaaarg wrote...

You're absolutely right, OP.

Sync-kills aren't cheap at all. Magnet hands that pull you into sync-kills when you're already out of range are cheap as hell, though. Oh, and what about when that Banshee teleports beside you and picks you up before you have a chance to move? Is that the player's fault?

VEry very rarely does a banshee teleport right beside you and insta kill you from a distance if you are attacking her.  If she does teleport in close you can the great majority of the time get away if you have given yourself an exit strategy.

And the Phantom bubble isn't cheap, true. It only blocks projectile powers, unlike the Praetorian bubble that blocks all powers. But her flips, which cause 90% DR and result in a Claymore to the face doing almost no damage, definitely is. Not to mention flipping back and forth so much that it takes more than a Typhoon's clip to kill her. Seems fair.

Again, I love all of this whining about phantoms, it goes 100% contrary to every anti statis thread I ahave been a part of.  "Phantoms are easy you jsut do 'inset tactic here.' you don't need statis at all!

And yeah, staying in hard cover is a great idea against Geth. Or at least it would be, if the Bomber didn't fly over you to stunlock you to death no matter where you are. But I suppose you like not being able to move your character no matter what.

Geth Bombers are overpowered for their function but they are not in the league of this discussion.  You have to kill them before they get close or you have to evade if they get on top of you.  Their whole function is to flush you out and they do a fine job of it.

[Beerfish]

spudspot wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

No, as I said in my post if a banashee teleports through a wall and a down a level and syncs you before you can move that is not your fault.  That however does not happen that often.  Lag is lag, it can kill you agaisnt any opponent, that doesn't make the syncs more unfair.  It's a function of bad connections.

See, there are unavoidable sync-kills. Since the rest of them is, uhm, avoidable, people being good at avoiding them might rage at a larger proportion of the sync-kills they've had.

People are talking as if this is a massive epidemic and that they are NEVER at fault for a sync kill.  As I said very good players appear to shoe horning all sync kills into 'cheap' sync kills and the cheap ones are just not that common in the grand scheme of things.