184 réponses à ce sujet

[Beerfish]

Dokteur Kill wrote...

Beerfish wrote...
  Great rebuttle.  This smacks of the very good players just being incredulous that they can actually make a mistake in game and take repsonsibility for it.

...or maybe we just make less mistakes.

You're generalizing from your own experience. In your case, 95% of sync kills may be due to you screwing up and getting too close to a Phantom or Praetorian. In my case, 80% are down to banshees teleport-grabbing me.

How often does this happen to you?  If you say any more than rarely I cast doubt on it. 

[spudspot]

Beerfish wrote...

People are talking as if this is a massive epidemic and that they are NEVER at fault for a sync kill.  As I said very good players appear to shoe horning all sync kills into 'cheap' sync kills and the cheap ones are just not that common in the grand scheme of things.

Nah, if I'm with my regular squad and play a Vanguard, I'll just frantically charge anything, because that works well enough for me and doesn't lead to too many instakills actually. Still, I do have my fair share of 'oh well, that was dumb' situations.

Not saying these don't exist and that the mechanic isn't somewhat fair in these situations. It becomes questionable though if you see how inconsistent it can be. 

[luciox]

"very very very rarely does a banshee teleport right...great majority of the time"

Well...I either see a kid with too much free time who ALWAYS host OR a kid who has the most expensive internet connection (of course he does not pay for it himself).

P.S. can I call OP a moron? I really want to. OP, you made a mistake, admit it and stop pointing figure at ppl and telling them what to do.

[Mendelevosa]

Beerfish wrote...

Mendelevosa wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Feeble Reasonable excuses for people that make errors and then blame it on other things  are victims of bad game design and netcoding. And I don't count a bunch of lag as a a valid reason to complain about sync kills.

Almost without exception every time I have been sync'd I feel I have made an error been cheated in some way. Not backing out of range fast enough, not being situationally aware, trying to squeeze that last shot in on another opponent.  Banshee's phasing through walls and telepoerting 3x their normal range, Phantoms grabbing me with their magnet hands and impaling, and Praetorians cnacelling their required melee attack to go straight for the sync kill. These types of mechanics take control away from the player and are never acceptable in any circumstance. This adds tons of frustration and zero fun into the game. Why is Bioware so biased against melee playstyles?

Sorry. Just wanted to fix a few grammatical errors in your post.

Funny how it is 'bad game design' when it is a negative but a feature when something is a positive.  Some opponents are very dangerous and deserve a high level of respect.  In a game where players always know spawn points, always know every trick in the book against enemies, play in a way that will be most effective you still need the fear factor. 

You guys (mostly very good players) do realize that the game would be a sheer and utter walk in the park if you made sync kills a totally static feature that only happened under totaly very controlled situations. 

It would not be bad game design if: 1.) It was not affected by connection lag, 2.) It didn't make an entire class of characters useless, and/or 3.) If there was some way for the victim to counter the process once grabbed. Having mechanics that punish players are fine, but it is not very creative to include a feature that makes an affected player totally helpless. I never saw why some developers considered those types of features to be fun when all they do is create more frustration. There could be at least some form of ability, gear, ect. that allows players to survive those attacks. 

Yes, some sync kills (specifically from Brutes, Atli, and Scions) are very avoidable. However, there are some enemies that make insta-killing inevitable. Some of them insta-kill too quickly for other teammates to kill or stagger them. Then you have enemies that break their own rules (Banshees teleporting far and through matter, Phantoms neglecting to melee, and Praetorians cancelling their melee to sync kill), which makes the game even more frustrating. If they could fix the issue of enemies ignoring their assigned prerequisites that are needed to perform sync kills, that alone would make the mechanic more acceptable. Though I would prefer the cancellation of magnet grabbing and extended teleportation.

[Blarg]

Beerfish wrote...

Very very rarely does a banshee teleport right beside you and insta kill you from a distance if you are attacking her.  If she does teleport in close you can the great majority of the time get away if you have given yourself an exit strategy.

Again, I love all of this whining about phantoms, it goes 100% contrary to every anti statis thread I ahave been a part of.  "Phantoms are easy you jsut do 'inset tactic here.' you don't need statis at all![/b]

Geth Bombers are overpowered for their function but they are not in the league of this discussion.  You have to kill them before they get close or you have to evade if they get on top of you.  Their whole function is to flush you out and they do a fine job of it.

Banshees teleport right next to me quite often in close quarters maps, but not in large ones, true. Consider yourself lukcy you aren't Banshee bait. I often have an exit strategy, but no time to act upon it. However, Banshees are mostly fine. What I'm talking about with the magnet hands are Phantoms. Those are the ones where it's complete BS and unavoidable, especially considering the stagger from their attacks means that dodge-less kits are SOL.

I've never said Phantoms are easy. My argument here is separate from what others have said. There are abilities that help against them, but those are on few classes, and weapons classes are the ones who are out of luck when the Phantom brings up its DR.

Yes, they flush you out of cover. But the OP said that to counter Geth, you must stay in cover. So they are definitely in the league of this discussion. The point here is that against Geth, you will be stunlocked at multiple points in the match. There's no getting around it. And having control taken away is not considered fun by most players.

[no1hascontrol]

I saw the video. And I stand by what I said. I realize what phantom DR is. And if you want to call that a cheap mechanic to overcome all the powers and ammo powers, that's fine. I agree that it Should be same as offhost for on-host and vice versa. But, that doesn't mean i think its a broken mechanic. What's your suggestion to fix it? You have tons of combinations of what each players load outs and powers can be. She is difficult for majority of players but makes stasis and other powers useful.

Also, banshees teleporting through walls is very rare. She can teleport over cover but not through walls. And yes, it's players mistake 90% of the time like other player said.

[HolyAvenger]

no1hascontrol wrote...

 She can teleport over cover but not through walls. 

Clueless OP is clueless.

[spudspot]

HolyAvenger wrote...

no1hascontrol wrote...

 She can teleport over cover but not through walls. 

Clueless OP is clueless.

/thread

[NuclearTech76]

Beerfish wrote...

spudspot wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

No, as I said in my post if a banashee teleports through a wall and a down a level and syncs you before you can move that is not your fault.  That however does not happen that often.  Lag is lag, it can kill you agaisnt any opponent, that doesn't make the syncs more unfair.  It's a function of bad connections.

See, there are unavoidable sync-kills. Since the rest of them is, uhm, avoidable, people being good at avoiding them might rage at a larger proportion of the sync-kills they've had.

People are talking as if this is a massive epidemic and that they are NEVER at fault for a sync kill.  As I said very good players appear to shoe horning all sync kills into 'cheap' sync kills and the cheap ones are just not that common in the grand scheme of things.

I don't think anyone here is saying they never make a mistake and get sync killed. However, good players do have plans to avoid sync kills when they are legitimate. So do you believe the vast majority of sync kills that occur to a good player is because of player error? There exists a certain BS factor in game that you absolutely cannot plan for or battle against IE banshees coming through a floor or wall and immediately grabbing you.

[cdzander]

Banshee teleport instagrab happens. It happens through walls. Sometimes, on the right map, through the floor. If you are playing a kit with no dodge, it's over. But I guess that's always the players fault. How dare he not know a banshee was coming through that wall.

[NuclearTech76]

no1hascontrol wrote...

I saw the video. And I stand by what I said. I realize what phantom DR is. And if you want to call that a cheap mechanic to overcome all the powers and ammo powers, that's fine. I agree that it Should be same as offhost for on-host and vice versa. But, that doesn't mean i think its a broken mechanic. What's your suggestion to fix it? You have tons of combinations of what each players load outs and powers can be. She is difficult for majority of players but makes stasis and other powers useful.

Also, banshees teleporting through walls is very rare. She can teleport over cover but not through walls. And yes, it's players mistake 90% of the time like other player said.

I tell you what, play Ghost/Reapers/Gold tonight and let me know if she can't teleport through walls. You're clueless.

[MajorStupidity]

no1hascontrol wrote...

I saw the video. And I stand by what I said. I realize what phantom DR is. And if you want to call that a cheap mechanic to overcome all the powers and ammo powers, that's fine. I agree that it Should be same as offhost for on-host and vice versa. But, that doesn't mean i think its a broken mechanic. What's your suggestion to fix it? You have tons of combinations of what each players load outs and powers can be. She is difficult for majority of players but makes stasis and other powers useful.

Also, banshees teleporting through walls is very rare. She can teleport over cover but not through walls. And yes, it's players mistake 90% of the time like other player said.

really?

She constantly teleports through walls and the majority of the time that is how she kills me... If it doesnt happen to you great, but that is just your experience the fact remains that she is capable of putting players into positions where there is no escape from her sync-kills and when that happens it is just bad game design. 

I dont remember ME2 or 1 having insta-kill, nor do I remember the geth relying so heavily on stagger to kill the player. I also remember ME2 being much more difficult, but at the same time more rewarding than ME3 despite not having these "fake difficulty" mechanics.

[Zodhiarche]

no1hascontrol wrote...

I saw the video. And I stand by what I said. I realize what phantom DR is. And if you want to call that a cheap mechanic to overcome all the powers and ammo powers, that's fine. I agree that it Should be same as offhost for on-host and vice versa. But, that doesn't mean i think its a broken mechanic. What's your suggestion to fix it? You have tons of combinations of what each players load outs and powers can be. She is difficult for majority of players but makes stasis and other powers useful.

Also, banshees teleporting through walls is very rare. She can teleport over cover but not through walls. And yes, it's players mistake 90% of the time like other player said.

Simple : remove sync-kill from the game if you can't fix it.

Or, to balance it and make it more fair : give sync-kill to CQC characters.
Phantoms can sync-kill you with their sword ? I should be able to sync-kill phantoms with my human soldier's omniblade. That's what I call a fair game mechanism.

Modifié par Zodhiarche, 30 janvier 2013 - 05:04 .

[Happy Shepard]

Could some of those "l2p" people please explain why the Reapers used to be the hardest enemy faction and are now the easiest (at least according to BSN)? I'm just curious. A certain "fix" to Banshee sync-kills didn't have anything to do with it? It was almost impossible for me (horrible lag with players hosting outside of Europe) to play Gold/Platinum PUGs against Reapers because it was almost guaranteed that i'd get hugged at least once or twice every match. Which often had the result of a roflwipe.

And now, we have the same problem with Phantoms. Different issue, same BS. It's not fair and definitely worth complaining about when players have a huge disadvantage while hosting or having a bad host.

[3XT3RM1N4TUS]

Another "I am pro, l2p, noobs" moron.

[Spartanburger]

I'll be completely honest here. I've been hosting games pretty much exclusively for the last 3 months, and I have never seen any kind of "Damage Reduction" done to Phantoms as the host. Hell, they're easier to kill on host because there isn't any lag.

[billy the squid]

Happy Shepard wrote...

Could some of those "l2p" people please explain why the Reapers used to be the hardest enemy faction and are now the easiest (at least according to BSN)? I'm just curious. A certain "fix" to Banshee sync-kills didn't have anything to do with it? It was almost impossible for me (horrible lag with players hosting outside of Europe) to play Gold/Platinum PUGs against Reapers because it was almost guaranteed that i'd get hugged at least once or twice every match. Which often had the result of a roflwipe.

And now, we have the same problem with Phantoms. Different issue, same BS. It's not fair and definitely worth complaining about when players have a huge disadvantage while hosting or having a bad host.

Some buffs, new characters, changes to maps and fixing the banshees, magnetic hands which could sync kill you from 10 meters away.

Cerberus Dragoons now follow a berzerk charge and spam smash, the later waves being composed of Phantom and dragoon spam, although not as bad a first released Phantom DR. 

Geth were punished brutally by the FBW gold farming and were subsequently buffed beyond belief and with the changes to the map to kill camping have become a pain in the arse, not difficult just irritating in the extreame.

Collectors. Blitzkrieg on steroids. The Praetorians move faster than any boss bar Phantoms, power immunity, mutiple possession, butt lasers through cover, seeker swarms, and the Scion's OP cannon which delays shield regen, along with the cluster grenades, power combo damage is still broken on Collectors too.

Reapers, well they got left behind. Banshees unless they decide to bend their attacks round/ through a wall, they aren't the threat they were before. Brutes meh. Only Marauders and to an extent ravagers provide any real danger.

Modifié par billy the squid, 30 janvier 2013 - 05:39 .

[OneMore1968]

Beerfish 

lol opponents are supposed to do one thing and don't?  Someone is too used to a formula of how every spawn occurs in one location, every enemy action is painted out in a sequence of events.  Knowing that they do not obey all of these rules you have quoted, stay the hell away from them.  this fits in very nicely with all the anti stasis threads as in people always saying 'you don't need stasis vs phantoms just do the following.

You must be very unlucky or just used to playing too aggressive in that case as I very rarely have those things happen unless I let the dangerous opponent get too close or in a certain location.

Seriously?   Is that some kind of new gameplan, use an RNG to determine how enemies will react.  Until we get into the realm of true AI in computer programming, ie that can think and develop new behaviour based on exposure to an environment, then we are locked in a situation of game developer creates behaviourial code for a character in a game. That will contain a set pattern of actions taken based on how the "real" player interacts with it during the game.  Even with OOP, this is still limited to a programmer defined feature set.  

What we find is that in ME3 MP, the behaviour of certain enemies is altered randomly due to bugs/glitches, call them what you will.  If you play the SP game for any length of time you would realise that in the main, the characters behave as they have been programmed.  That is not to say that they never glitch occasionally but generally a LOT less than in MP.

This is a condition that can be remedied by BW. 

[Lady Galaga]

The closest thing to a complaint for me is that the Phantom's sync-kill is somewhat incongruous, considering she uses the sword for normal attacks AND the sync kill, making it weird that she doesn't just do the sync-kill every time she swings. It'd be like if the Nemesis had a sync kill where not moving after she lines up and hits you risks a second sync-kill-style sniper hit to a critical spot. Plus, the Phantom's sync-kill shouldn't affect Krogan or Vorcha. But that's not really a complaint.

Modifié par Lady Galaga, 30 janvier 2013 - 05:40 .

[OneMore1968]

On a side note Beerfish. If you play PUGs at Silver or above, you will need to play fairly aggressively to mke life easier. Its just not possible to get the co-op teamplay necessary in randoms. You need to clear enemies asap, what u genrally find is if ur lucky two players good enough to solo at that level, others trying it but its a struggle. therefore that means getting up close and personal with enemies. I can count on one hand the matches I have recently had where four good players have worked well in a group moving around the map together or duo-split, one duo at one side, two at the other.

So getting random behaviour in matches where the team isnt as good as it should be is incredibly frustrating. Wastes consumables like crazy and should be fixed. I feel however it might not be because of this very fact!

[Happy Shepard]

billy the squid wrote...

Happy Shepard wrote...

Could some of those "l2p" people please explain why the Reapers used to be the hardest enemy faction and are now the easiest (at least according to BSN)? I'm just curious. A certain "fix" to Banshee sync-kills didn't have anything to do with it? It was almost impossible for me (horrible lag with players hosting outside of Europe) to play Gold/Platinum PUGs against Reapers because it was almost guaranteed that i'd get hugged at least once or twice every match. Which often had the result of a roflwipe.

And now, we have the same problem with Phantoms. Different issue, same BS. It's not fair and definitely worth complaining about when players have a huge disadvantage while hosting or having a bad host.

Some buffs, new characters, changes to maps and fixing the banshees, magnetic hands which could sync kill you from 10 meters away.

Cerberus Dragoons now follow a berzerk charge and spam smash, the later waves being composed of Phantom and dragoon spam, although not as bad a first released Phantom DR. 

Geth were punished brutally by the FBW gold farming and were subsequently buffed beyond belief and with the changes to the map to kill camping have become a pain in the arse, not difficult just irritating in the extreame.

Collectors. Blitzkrieg on steroids. The Praetorians move faster than any boss bar Phantoms, power immunity, mutiple possession, butt lasers through cover, seeker swarms, and the Scion's OP cannon which delays shield regen, along with the cluster grenades, power combo damage is still broken on Collectors too.

Reapers, well they got left behind. Banshees unless they decide to bend their attacks round/ through a wall, they aren't the threat they were before. Brutes meh. Only Marauders and to an extent ravagers provide any real danger.

I just wanted to point out how fixing Banshee sync-kills changed the difficulty of the entire faction. And don't forget the Atlas and Geth Drone buffs. Imo, the illusion of the Reaper's difficulty and dat FBW were the reason why all factions got significantly buffed and also got new units. That's why such issues should be fixed and there is no reason to call out those who try to get bugs and glitches fixed.