137 réponses à ce sujet

[Cuttlebone]

Kroitz wrote...

Ninja Stan wrote...

Official DJ Harbinger wrote...

My "one liner" is all I needed to post, if BioWare doesn't respond to fans then they're gonna lose a lot of them, seriously.

With all of the "BioWare's gonna lose fans because of X" type predictions I've seen in the last 11 years, I'm surprised BioWare has any fans left! I mean, there have been more than a few "BioWare's going to go out of business" and "no one's going to buy the next game" type posts floating around since NWN! Seriously.

But in all seriousness, was it ever up to this magnitute?

Well I think at this point all of the fans that could have been lost because of that are already lost. Nothing's gonna change that. Still things don't look that bad.

[M2S SOLID JOSH]

while im a bit (for lack of a better word) overwhelmed by these comments i will say this. why are people so suprised that this is still going on? why are you suprised people blame so and so? ea, a company notorious for rushing out cames like theres no tomorrow and ign notorious for giving undeserving scores will always receive hate and as for bioware who for many people took a franchise and nearly flushed it down a toilet and never really explained why (other that the infamous "artistic integrity) will now be looked down upon. people need to blame someone and someone needs to take the blame. i (and others as well) would at least want to hear a " we're sorry" and no i dont take the ec as an apology.

[The Real Bowser]

Wow, and now Bioware is going to egg on the argument? I'm done here, what a joke.

[Morty Smith]

Cuttlebone wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

Ninja Stan wrote...

Official DJ Harbinger wrote...

My "one liner" is all I needed to post, if BioWare doesn't respond to fans then they're gonna lose a lot of them, seriously.

With all of the "BioWare's gonna lose fans because of X" type predictions I've seen in the last 11 years, I'm surprised BioWare has any fans left! I mean, there have been more than a few "BioWare's going to go out of business" and "no one's going to buy the next game" type posts floating around since NWN! Seriously.

But in all seriousness, was it ever up to this magnitute?

Well I think at this point all of the fans that could have been lost because of that are already lost. Nothing's gonna change that. Still things don't look that bad.

I think the current situation goes a tad beyond lost pre-orders. I´m speaking of the general word of mouth about the company, malevolent behaviour among the fan-base and the curtain of steel between the BSN and the devs.

[Cuttlebone]

Kroitz wrote...

Cuttlebone wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

Ninja Stan wrote...

Official DJ Harbinger wrote...

My "one liner" is all I needed to post, if BioWare doesn't respond to fans then they're gonna lose a lot of them, seriously.

With all of the "BioWare's gonna lose fans because of X" type predictions I've seen in the last 11 years, I'm surprised BioWare has any fans left! I mean, there have been more than a few "BioWare's going to go out of business" and "no one's going to buy the next game" type posts floating around since NWN! Seriously.

But in all seriousness, was it ever up to this magnitute?

Well I think at this point all of the fans that could have been lost because of that are already lost. Nothing's gonna change that. Still things don't look that bad.

I think the current situation goes a tad beyond lost pre-orders. I´m speaking of the general word of mouth about the company, malevolent behaviour among the fan-base and the curtain of steel between the BSN and the devs.

Yeah well that's been happening for a long time now ever since DA2, but other companies have raised from worst situations, and BW is not even close to the point of no return when damage cannot be undone. They just need to get rid of EA.

[Brass_Buckles]

Cuttlebone wrote...

Yeah well that's been happening for a long time now ever since DA2, but other companies have raised from worst situations, and BW is not even close to the point of no return when damage cannot be undone. They just need to get rid of EA.

EA bought Bioware, Bioware did not buy EA.  So Bioware can't "get rid of EA," not unless they are bought from EA by some other company, which is exceedingly unlikely.

Bioware's reputation has been hurt by this, make no mistake.  I preordered a couple of games from them--DA2 and ME3.  I won't likely be preordering the next game, unless I have very good reason to do so (i.e. ME4 is a sequel--mind you that I'm not expecting Shepard to appear in it).  I want to hear more about the game before I buy it next time.  If that means there's a leaked script and I have to read through the entire thing, I will do so.  Part of me wants to say that the rest of ME3 was worth my money, because despite its flaws I really enjoyed it.  But that ME3 ending really ruined the whole thing for me.  And DA2, while still better than average as games go, was a bit disappointing compared to DAO or ME1.

So next time, I'm going to find out beforehand if I think I'll like the game before I throw my money at it.  I don't earn enough to waste my cash on something that's going to make me depressed, angry, annoyed, disappointed, etc.

[FlamingBoy]

more pure nonsense trying to pin this as some how "our" fault

[FlamingBoy]

Seishoujyo wrote...

IReuven wrote...

Being sarcastic and saying that IGN "is in EAs arse" got me temp-banned.

They are, it's fact. IGN are corrupted, just look at COD BO2, 9,5/10, lol, and every year it's the same stuff.

As for ME3 the little exchange between EA and IGN is fact too, I m talking about Diana Allers aka Jessica Chobot and the nearly perfect review on IGN.

Doritos/Mountain View Gate all over again.

not  to mention the rediculous pre-coverage that bioware got before release, the guy reviewing posted an article a day while playing for a whole week describing his feelings about me3

[Ninja Stan]

FlamingBoy wrote...

more pure nonsense trying to pin this as some how "our" fault

I know, right? If someone isn't talking to you, it's got to be their fault they're not responding to all the yelling and accusations and name-calling. How dare they not reveal all the information you want them to, or explain things to you when you want them to? You're a paying customer with legitimate complaints, damn it! They have to talk to you!

[Iakus]

Ninja Stan wrote...

With all of the "BioWare's gonna lose fans because of X" type predictions I've seen in the last 11 years, I'm surprised BioWare has any fans left! I mean, there have been more than a few "BioWare's going to go out of business" and "no one's going to buy the next game" type posts floating around since NWN! Seriously.

Umm, no offense, but where were the throngs of cheering fans wielding inflatable omniblades this year?

Just because it has been falsely predicted in the past doesn't mean it can't happen at all.  Pretty sure "It can't happen because it's never happened before" is some kind of fallacy, but I cna't be bothered to look it up right now.

No, this isnt' something I want to happen, and I desperately hope Bioware can win back my trust.  But Bioware did break the trust of a sizable number of of people.  It doesn't justify personal attacks or insults, and whatnot.  But fans passionate about a product (particularly one designed with stirring emotions in mind) do get passionately angry as well.  At some point, Bioware is going to have to face this.

Modifié par iakus, 31 janvier 2013 - 12:31 .

[FlamingBoy]

Ninja Stan wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

more pure nonsense trying to pin this as some how "our" fault

I know, right? If someone isn't talking to you, it's got to be their fault they're not responding to all the yelling and accusations and name-calling. How dare they not reveal all the information you want them to, or explain things to you when you want them to? You're a paying customer with legitimate complaints, damn it! They have to talk to you!

Don't appreciate the condescending tone, I see now I am just following by biowares example from the moderators they hire.

[RukiaKuchki]

Why does this always have to be so melodramatic? Bioware aren't curing cancer, they make videogames. It's time-wasting entertainment produced by a group of talented, creative people. People here have to stop taking things so seriously and so personally. You didn't like the game for whatever reason, that's fine. You don't have to defend your personal preferences. But over-interpreting and twisting every little comment (or lack of comments) as a personal attack on yourself or your fellow fans is just silly. And looking for insidious relationships with publishers and media outlets...it's just paranoia. Who really cares what a reviewer gave the game when it's your own opinion that counts?

Modifié par RukiaKuchki, 31 janvier 2013 - 12:48 .

[FlamingBoy]

RukiaKuchki wrote...

Why does this always have to be so melodramatic? Bioware aren't curing cancer, they make videogames. It's time-wasting entertainment produced by a group of talented, creative people. People here have to stop taking things so seriously and so personally. You didn't like the game for whatever reason, that's fine. You don't have to defend your personal preferences. But over-interpreting and twisting every little comment (or lack of comments) as a personal attack on yourself or your fellow fans is just silly. And looking for insidious relationships with publishers and media outlets...it's just paranoia. Who really cares what a reviewer gave the game when it's your own opinion that counts?

an opinion is not an opinion unless you can defend it from criticism, anything else is wasting everyones time

thats the whole point of discussions, debates, arguments, and even internet forums

Modifié par FlamingBoy, 31 janvier 2013 - 01:03 .

[TheRealJayDee]

actually, nevermind anything

Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 31 janvier 2013 - 01:39 .

[Morty Smith]

FlamingBoy wrote...

an opinion is not an opinion unless you can defend it from criticism, anything else is wasting everyones time.

Em, no.

Opinions do not work that way. I think you mean facts, those can be objectively "defended".
 

Modifié par Kroitz, 31 janvier 2013 - 01:34 .

[FlamingBoy]

Kroitz wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

an opinion is not an opinion unless you can defend it from criticism, anything else is wasting everyones time.

Em, no.

Opinions do not work that way. I think you mean facts, those can be objectively "defended".
 

Em, yes.

An opinion can be criticised, torn apart, explored, doubted, disproved (with facts), and be subjected to any other human tool of criticism at our disposal. using the same tools you can therefore defend it. Saying its "my opinion" or "thats just my opinion" is not an adequate defence.

Modifié par FlamingBoy, 31 janvier 2013 - 01:44 .

[Morty Smith]

FlamingBoy wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

an opinion is not an opinion unless you can defend it from criticism, anything else is wasting everyones time.

Em, no.

Opinions do not work that way. I think you mean facts, those can be objectively "defended".
 

Em, yes.

An opinion can be criticised, torn apart, explored, doubted, disproved (with facts), and be subjected to any other human tool of criticism at our disposal. using the same tools you can therefore defend it. Saying its "my opinion" or "thats just my opinion" is not an adequate defence but its an ongoing school of thought that must be put down.

It can, yes. But even if it doesn´t hold up to the critizism, it is by definition still an opinion. A fact does lose it´s definition if it doesn´t hold up to be such.

[FlamingBoy]

Kroitz wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

an opinion is not an opinion unless you can defend it from criticism, anything else is wasting everyones time.

Em, no.

Opinions do not work that way. I think you mean facts, those can be objectively "defended".
 

Em, yes.

An opinion can be criticised, torn apart, explored, doubted, disproved (with facts), and be subjected to any other human tool of criticism at our disposal. using the same tools you can therefore defend it. Saying its "my opinion" or "thats just my opinion" is not an adequate defence but its an ongoing school of thought that must be put down.

It can, yes. But even if it doesn´t hold up to the critizism, it is by definition still an opinion. A fact does lose it´s definition if it doesn´t hold up to be such.

the difference is by subject to criticism the opinion can be turned into a "wrong opinion" or a "not very good opinion"

yes in essence the definition remains the same, but in my eyes the value and meaning of an "opinion" changes

[Morty Smith]

FlamingBoy wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

an opinion is not an opinion unless you can defend it from criticism, anything else is wasting everyones time.

Em, no.

Opinions do not work that way. I think you mean facts, those can be objectively "defended".
 

Em, yes.

An opinion can be criticised, torn apart, explored, doubted, disproved (with facts), and be subjected to any other human tool of criticism at our disposal. using the same tools you can therefore defend it. Saying its "my opinion" or "thats just my opinion" is not an adequate defence but its an ongoing school of thought that must be put down.

It can, yes. But even if it doesn´t hold up to the critizism, it is by definition still an opinion. A fact does lose it´s definition if it doesn´t hold up to be such.

the difference is by subject to criticism the opinion can be turned into a "wrong opinion" or a "not very good opinion"

yes in essence the definition remains the same, but in my eyes the value and meaning of an "opinion" changes

That sounds like a fine opinion. I wish there was an endorsement button.

Ah, wait.

<3

[Ninja Stan]

Let's try and get back on topic, please. Thank you.

[KiroKatashi]

Ninja Stan wrote...

I know, right? If someone isn't talking to you, it's got to be their fault they're not responding to all the yelling and accusations and name-calling. How dare they not reveal all the information you want them to, or explain things to you when you want them to? You're a paying customer with legitimate complaints, damn it! They have to talk to you!

They don't have to respond, but keeping quiet sure isn't doing them any favors to help dispell all the yelling and accusations and name-calling. Should people be threatening and insulting the developers? Of course not, but the "toxic environment" of the forums is not going to just go away on its own, Bioware needs to make some effort and actually communicate. It's like a clogged toilet, fixing it is not going to be pleasant, but it needs to be done, otherwise it just gets worse and worse until something breaks and you have to call a plumber and you get stuck with a huge bill and the analogy starts to fall apart. 

Modifié par KiroKatashi, 31 janvier 2013 - 08:32 .

[ugurbu]

Well said. You may not like the ending, you may not like the path ME took towards the end but it does not give you the right to insult, threaten or discredit Casey Hudson and/or any other lead producers.

[Anthadlas]

Ninja Stan wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

more pure nonsense trying to pin this as some how "our" fault

I know, right? If someone isn't talking to you, it's got to be their fault they're not responding to all the yelling and accusations and name-calling. How dare they not reveal all the information you want them to, or explain things to you when you want them to? You're a paying customer with legitimate complaints, damn it! They have to talk to you!

The problem with your point is that we are paying customers, If this was just a normal conversation then fine you can ignore us.
But when you have customers who have paid for a product and the vast majority are disappointed with it you have to expect and deal with negative views on your business practices.
Especially when you use all the digital media rights to stop anybody from actually getting a refund