137 réponses à ce sujet

[99DP1982]

I'll give one of the examples of what made me particularly angry at Bioware... One thing is marketing campaign, but completely another is showing BS like this.

http://www.dailymoti...es#.UQr4cfJ-R8E

Be at least kind enough to show THE ACTUAL choices and consequences, and not BS, where we find out in game that what was shown in the promotional video was a pure BS.

Modifié par 99DP1982, 31 janvier 2013 - 11:10 .

[paul165]

Ninja Stan wrote...

There is a lot of misconception in your post, DarthKilby. Over the last year or so, I've tried to correct these statements wherever possible, because some people use them as fuel for their anger even though the statements are, at best, misremembered or taken out of context.

And when Chris Priestly dismissed all the correct concerns about the amount of auto dialogue and the removal of the third dialogue option with a statement very close to "I can't beleive how stupid some people are" am I "misrepresenting" that Stan? When he responded to threads with your Mum jokes is that "out of context"?

When he persistently locked threads pointing out that single player EMS was insufficient to acheive all endings, one of your PR people (I think the head of marketing) trotted out to tell everyone how he had done it and lots of other people had done it and those complaining just didn't know what they were doing which part of that was not "dismissing legitimate concerns".

Look post ME3 the forums went mental I think everyone can acknowledge that but what I have yet to see is an acceptance that a significant part of the fuel for that was the response by BW - to the ending, to the marketing, to the EMS, to the bugs.

[paul165]

Ninja Stan wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

more pure nonsense trying to pin this as some how "our" fault

I know, right? If someone isn't talking to you, it's got to be their fault they're not responding to all the yelling and accusations and name-calling. How dare they not reveal all the information you want them to, or explain things to you when you want them to? You're a paying customer with legitimate complaints, damn it! They have to talk to you!

And where were the devs before all the yelling and screaming? Right they were perfectly happy telling everyone misleading information before release and letting people make assumptions because it benefited them. There was a few days when they could have got ahead of it and had a semi-reasoned discussion instead the team chose to disengage completely and at least tacticly let IGN and co. carry the argument for them. They chose to do that in a manner almost designed to encourage trolls, bad behaviour and them vs. us.

Bioware did nothing...

The situation predictably deteriorated.

Modifié par paul165, 01 février 2013 - 12:35 .

[Ninja Stan]

Then I suppose there's nothing more to talk about, paul165. You're angry at the developers for lying to you, abandoning you, ignoring you, inciting your anger, and not doing anything to make you less angry. They did it all on purpose, just to make you and all the other upset, frustrated fans angry, and now you've caught them with their hand in the cookie jar. Congratulations.

I'm curious, though. What's your win situation here, paul165? Obviously, my win situation is the community being less hostile and more civil and respectful in order to encourage more dev interaction. Yours seems to be an abject public apology from BioWare as a company and reassurance that they'll never again do or say anything that could be misinterpreted.

[TheRealJayDee]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Then I suppose there's nothing more to talk about, paul165. You're angry at the developers for lying to you, abandoning you, ignoring you, inciting your anger, and not doing anything to make you less angry. They did it all on purpose, just to make you and all the other upset, frustrated fans angry, and now you've caught them with their hand in the cookie jar. Congratulations.

I'm curious, though. What's your win situation here, paul165? Obviously, my win situation is the community being less hostile and more civil and respectful in order to encourage more dev interaction. Yours seems to be an abject public apology from BioWare as a company and reassurance that they'll never again do or say anything that could be misinterpreted.

Yeah, in the past have repeatedly bothered to respond to posts like this, but everything I have to say I have said in other threads, and I have learned that I basically just wasted my time and energy. 

Guess you are right, and there is nothing more to talk about. 

[rapscallioness]

nvm.

just kill it w/fire already

[Malstrife]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Then I suppose there's nothing more to talk about, paul165. You're angry at the developers for lying to you, abandoning you, ignoring you, inciting your anger, and not doing anything to make you less angry. They did it all on purpose, just to make you and all the other upset, frustrated fans angry, and now you've caught them with their hand in the cookie jar. Congratulations.

I'm curious, though. What's your win situation here, paul165? Obviously, my win situation is the community being less hostile and more civil and respectful in order to encourage more dev interaction. Yours seems to be an abject public apology from BioWare as a company and reassurance that they'll never again do or say anything that could be misinterpreted.

Not to be rude by interjecting but...

Your first statement (of obvious sarcasm) is slightly unbecoming of someone who has been here as long as you have.  I mean no disrespect in that comment, but that is pushing the boundaries of being 'professional' and 'another squabbler of BSN."

I agree that dev/community interaction is important, and a less hostile environment is an ideal place for that.  However, when the situation explodes (we all know how by now) and the limited reactions other than the boss man stating 'artistic integrity' (even if meant in support of Bioware's vision, not a pot shot at fans) rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.  Me included.

Paul165's 'win' is probably more clarity in advertising like 'HOW' is it 'interactive storytelling?'  Other than 'option a, b, or c ends in x, y, or z consequences.'

And being realistic, your comment including 'public apology from Bioware as a company ...reassurance that they'll never again do or say anything that could be misinterpreted.'  You are basically putting the argument in a hole because no company in their right minds could expect everything to run perfectly with no mistake.

The most I expect as someone who has played your company's games for over a decade is a game that kicks ass and takes names, and offers an end result that we can all swallow (that coincides with the FULL extent of the lore included, and not something explained in later purchased content). 

Friendly suggestion to avoid misinterpretation in advertising:  "Bioware's famous storytelling that is effected by choices available to players" or "A story that can be molded by your choices" (if said choices truly effect the 'end game' of things).

[Ninja Stan]

Malstrife wrote...

Not to be rude by interjecting but...

Your first statement (of obvious sarcasm) is slightly unbecoming of someone who has been here as long as you have.  I mean no disrespect in that comment, but that is pushing the boundaries of being 'professional' and 'another squabbler of BSN."

No offense taken. It's a little more pointed than my usual interaction, I'll admit, but having been here as long as I have, the hostility and unreasonable expectations wears a little. Many folks are looking for answers, but based on my experience here in the forums, they're looking for specific answers presented in a specific fashion, and are generally uninterested in anything less. I have received far more and far better responses to my posts in the past couple of months than I ever got when I was a BioWarian posting here. This is why I ask about a win condition, since some of the responses in this thread indicate that unless specific "answers" are produced, they will be dismissed as just "excuses."

I agree that dev/community interaction is important, and a less hostile environment is an ideal place for that.  However, when the situation explodes (we all know how by now) and the limited reactions other than the boss man stating 'artistic integrity' (even if meant in support of Bioware's vision, not a pot shot at fans) rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.  Me included.

Paul165's 'win' is probably more clarity in advertising like 'HOW' is it 'interactive storytelling?'  Other than 'option a, b, or c ends in x, y, or z consequences.'

That is something specific that can be discussed, and had his post been presented as such rather than as an attack, my post would like have been far less defensive. If this is correct, then I apologize for my tone. This is precisely the reason I usually counsel being far less hostile in the forums and being more constructive.

And being realistic, your comment including 'public apology from Bioware as a company ...reassurance that they'll never again do or say anything that could be misinterpreted.'  You are basically putting the argument in a hole because no company in their right minds could expect everything to run perfectly with no mistake.

You'd be surprised by the expectations some people have. Usually, it's based on ignorance of just how game development works, which is understandable, but one would think that the less one knows about a topic, the more careful one would be in making assumptions! I would never have known just how much work is involved in releasing a game if I hadn't been a part of the process for a decade! I don't want people to think that it is at all possible to guarantee that a game--regardless of its creator, lineage, publisher, or genre--will definitely please you.

The most I expect as someone who has played your company's games for over a decade is a game that kicks ass and takes names, and offers an end result that we can all swallow (that coincides with the FULL extent of the lore included, and not something explained in later purchased content).

Friendly suggestion to avoid misinterpretation in advertising:  "Bioware's famous storytelling that is effected by choices available to players" or "A story that can be molded by your choices" (if said choices truly effect the 'end game' of things).

A lot of the big marketing done for media products is not done by the creators of the product. For example, a director of a film is unlikely to be the one guiding the marketing campaign and the author of a book is probably not going to be the one scripting the ad copy. You'd be surprised at just how divisive some of the game marketing can be, even within the company. There was a lot of talk around the office regarding Dragon AGe's "This is the new [bleep]" trailer, for example.

The ad copy and marketing catchphrases are but a part of the issue, in my opinion. One other part is how that message is interpreted by the audience and the expectations it creates. Some people, for example, are upset over the "no A, B, or C endings" comment, even though that wasn't part of the marketing campaign. Neither was "16 endings," but that doesn't stop gamers from bringing it up as an example of BioWare "lying."

Yeah, I get that people following the game closely heard a lot of things (from many different sources) that turned out not to be true in the final game. This frustrated a lot of people and made them angry, because why would BioWare lie to them? In some cases, I would say that some folks heard something they really liked, something that was especially relevant to their interests, and jacked up their expectations of the game. A simple phrase like "customizable characters" could have been inflated by someone to mean "infinitely customizable characters" or "play as different races." This is not unheard of, which is why BioWare tries to be careful with what it says and how it says it.

One of the internet memes going around is "speculation for everyone," meaning BioWare doesn't give concrete answers, preferring to let the fanbase speculate on character motivations, "headcanon," etc. This isn't a terrible idea if the fanbase is given to overanalyzing every official statement anyway. I'm not saying that this is the what and the why of it all, but it can be difficult to have a conversation if one side has to be mindful of the myriad possible interpretations of everything said.

[Malstrife]

Ninja Stan wrote...


The ad copy and marketing catchphrases are but a part of the issue, in my opinion. One other part is how that message is interpreted by the audience and the expectations it creates. Some people, for example, are upset over the "no A, B, or C endings" comment, even though that wasn't part of the marketing campaign. Neither was "16 endings," but that doesn't stop gamers from bringing it up as an example of BioWare "lying."

Yeah, I get that people following the game closely heard a lot of things (from many different sources) that turned out not to be true in the final game. This frustrated a lot of people and made them angry, because why would BioWare lie to them? In some cases, I would say that some folks heard something they really liked, something that was especially relevant to their interests, and jacked up their expectations of the game. A simple phrase like "customizable characters" could have been inflated by someone to mean "infinitely customizable characters" or "play as different races." This is not unheard of, which is why BioWare tries to be careful with what it says and how it says it.

One of the internet memes going around is "speculation for everyone," meaning BioWare doesn't give concrete answers, preferring to let the fanbase speculate on character motivations, "headcanon," etc. This isn't a terrible idea if the fanbase is given to overanalyzing every official statement anyway. I'm not saying that this is the what and the why of it all, but it can be difficult to have a conversation if one side has to be mindful of the myriad possible interpretations of everything said.

I get the whole ad marketing = confusion.  Thank you for explaining that

However, the gap still lies at the root of the problem (not the ending itself, that would lead to a fruitless, head-desking, facepalming argument that ultimately leads nowhere), which was the lack of communication concerning the ending and any sort of feedback (to the reasonable questions, in the sea of countless threats, rage, and nerd tears).  The initial response was from the boss.  And this message just caused the fire to spread. 

PR is also an issue, and the question of quality of life (game as a whole) that, to be perfectly honest, has not been addressed in ME3 (Refuse to speculate on ME4, as we haven't played it to decide what's good/bad).  Faith has been faltered, and players (me included) hope the final DLC will restore it.  Finally, the backlash of PR to the fanbase concerning the outrage over ME3's end could be considered a slap in the face. 

I understand you have pride for the company you work for, which is why you (the moderators) back it.  But it still leaves a bad taste in our mouths when the response is all in the same.

Missing pieces (lore) that people complained about were 'fixed' or explained in a DLC that had to be paid for.   That is a problem I hope NEVER to see again.

This DLC could make/break the overall 'flavor' of ME3.  What say you? 
 

EDIT: not asking what is in the DLC as..well...asking a mod about it is a no-no cuz they can't answer

Modifié par Malstrife, 01 février 2013 - 03:35 .

[paul165]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Then I suppose there's nothing more to talk about, paul165. You're angry at the developers for lying to you, abandoning you, ignoring you, inciting your anger, and not doing anything to make you less angry. They did it all on purpose, just to make you and all the other upset, frustrated fans angry, and now you've caught them with their hand in the cookie jar. Congratulations.

I'm curious, though. What's your win situation here, paul165? Obviously, my win situation is the community being less hostile and more civil and respectful in order to encourage more dev interaction. Yours seems to be an abject public apology from BioWare as a company and reassurance that they'll never again do or say anything that could be misinterpreted.

My "win" is I suppose that Bioware learns from the experience and is more careful in their marketing next time. My problem was not primarily the product produced it was the meta around it - which was not, I apologise, primarily the developers it was the marketing / PR team.

I do note however that you don't address the actual specific points in the post instead favouring...whatever you believe the first paragraph of your response accomplishes.

Edit: having seen the later responses I apologise for the overly hostile tone of the post. I had just been slapped by my third CTD/ disconnect from SWTOR that evening when I posted it so I was not in the most fluffy of modes - especially regarding anything with a BW logo.

My point around the attitude of the CMs around the time of release and the....misleading pre release marketing I still beleive is vaild but I absolutely should have phrased it in a better, less antagonistic fashion.

Modifié par paul165, 01 février 2013 - 09:02 .

[99DP1982]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Then I suppose there's nothing more to talk about, paul165. You're angry at the developers for lying to you, abandoning you, ignoring you, inciting your anger, and not doing anything to make you less angry. They did it all on purpose, just to make you and all the other upset, frustrated fans angry, and now you've caught them with their hand in the cookie jar. Congratulations.

I'm curious, though. What's your win situation here, paul165? Obviously, my win situation is the community being less hostile and more civil and respectful in order to encourage more dev interaction. Yours seems to be an abject public apology from BioWare as a company and reassurance that they'll never again do or say anything that could be misinterpreted.

Obviously taking things to extremes is not going to happen. It IS a business after all.

I am not happy with how the things were initially handled by BW/EA, BUT they did try to somehow compensate in a scope of work, in which was justified from their financial point of view, and integrity of the business... I have yet to see a public apology from a company, which is not involved with court accusations, or which has not delivered a completely broken, unusable product.

I have problems though with the marketing. If it is creating a spread of chaotic information, then it's a bad marketing. I have yet to see a successful business, where marketing would not be aware of the product qualities and adds concepts would not go through an acceptance meeting, where a manager of the product is also present...

One thing is focusing on the strong points of the product (or "social/behavioral placement") another is showing blatant lies about the product and its contents. I've specifically chose to direct you to the "Interactive Storytelling" video as an example of such abuse. While the general message conveyed in the video is to some extent accurate (your choices decide about fates of whole species - we can take here Krogan, Geth, Quarians, although in the original concept of the ending in that game, they were completely irrelevant, because the player was never informed of those consequences in the epilogue), the promotional video manipulated a potential customer with an advertisement, where simple dialog choices can have almost IMMEDIATE and VASTLY DIFFERENT consequences. The example based on the Thesia mission is a clear abuse and I could even go as far as false advertising, as we all know, post-factum that the mission is completely linear and that dialog is a regular dialog with no consequence other than renegade/paragon points.

Such practices are not tolerable, and with such practices BW made me turn off from their future products, which will definitely not be pre-orders of special editions anymore. If anything, I will wait on the both customer and
professional reviews and read forums before any future purchase of their product.

That's a sad change in my perception of BW quality of work.

Modifié par 99DP1982, 01 février 2013 - 09:14 .

[Dieb]

99DP1982 wrote...

the above

That take is absolutely understandable, and I'm almost entirely with you on that.
Marketing decisions are essentially what the fanbase is going to hear about the game, yet they are ironically beyond the control of the people that understand the game the most.

What bothered me specifically the most about the marketing of ME3 is how the main focus IMO was on drawing new players into the game. I realize that whidening your audience is a never ending job if one wants to stay in business and ultimately ensure the capability of creating more and bigger games. Even the multiplayer -though I hardly ever care for it in games- was a perfectly understandable decision.

We can never know when the shown videos are actually taken, who in the company approved of their content, who did not, and who suggested otherwise. We also don't know what happens in the heads of the very people that enforce said promotional content after it is published, regarding the shape of the actual game until it is released.

It sounds stupid, but the difficult thing about Mass Effect is, that the story plays such a major part in the overall quality.

That means: As the game's poster-attribute, this makes it object of advertisment but at the same rate also to last-minute changes. I believe that marketing people would not make as much a difference between it, than maybe a gamer or a developer would.

For example, I wouldn't care at all if a trailer shows a character firing a sub-machine gun, and in the final product SMGs have been cut alltogether in the meantime. There are, however, other games/gamers in which/to whom something like that would have been a huge deal.

Then something like this happens, but there's now only BW employees left to explain it to you. They love their game, but they cannot just say "that other guy told us to, sorry folks". Not for the game's and not for their own employment's sake.

I myself haven't lost my trust in BioWare as a developer at all, simply because I am convinced that the effort and talent of the team wasn't responsible for what I didn't like about the game.

---------------------------------------------------------

Now I'm the one to loose myself in speculation obivously, but it is what I like to believe.
-Bael

Modifié par Baelrahn, 01 février 2013 - 11:19 .

[99DP1982]

Baelrahn wrote...


We can never know when the shown videos are actually taken, who in the company approved of their content, who did not, and who suggested otherwise. We also don't know what happens in the heads of the very people that enforce said promotional content after it is published, regarding the shape of the actual game until it is released.

Indeed we do not know who is resposnible for these activities, BUT looking at the release dates of the promotional videos I can hardly be convinced that the product was vastly different at that time, to what we have received as the final product on the release date. I can be convinced that it might have been an oversight and sloppy work, although I'm more inclined to keep my opinion that it was a deliberate action to build up a pre-release hype and drive the sales as high as possible during the first two weeks before the flaws (most likely known) would surface and cut significantly the revenue stream.

[Haargel]

Baelrahn wrote...

The Real Bowser wrote...

Do you really want to do this?  Do you really want to do this?

Bioware downright lied to us about the ending ("It won't be an ending like a, b, or c"... oh wait, it was), left us feeling empty, and topped it off by finishing the game with "Commander Shepard has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat.  Now you can continue to build that legend through further gameplay and downloadable content."

I'm sorry, but I will never, ever be okay with the ending unless it took drastic changes, the likes of which Bioware will never do.  The only thing this post is doing is stirring up these old feelings from a lot of unhappy players.  The best thing you can do is drop the subject and stop posting crap like this.  Because most players that were unhappy with this, will NEVER be okay with it, certainly not with some random dude telling us that we should be nice to the people that lied to us.  Hell no.

I am being nice normally, I'm over this.  I don't really play this game much anymore, but when I see crap like this it makes me want to start getting pissed off again.  So please, cut the bull **** thank you.

You're missing the point.
Please take the time to really read any of my posts in this very thread.

This is not about "The endings weren't bad, you don't understand them". This is not a discussion about the ending, it's execution or whether anyone is right with their opinion about it. This is merely about personal insults to developers, which IMO doesn't even have anything to do with a video game for that matter. It's just embarassing and uncalled for.

I can't put this anymore peacefully, but I'm simply not taking the "another thread" thing.
I'm not reopening an old wound, I only started this thread because it won't ever stop, and it get's annoying. More annoying than a lot of things I don't like about the game myself, by now.
It's in fact  the gazillions of non-productive ending-related and/or "BW is terrible for this reason" -threads, which downright ruin my experience in this forum. That's a solid complaint on my part. You have to manically look for an interesting topic/discussion, buried in variants of the latter mentioned threads about the same, well you said it best: bull ****.
So don't you give me that.


P.S.: I may come across in that way, because I haven't stated at all yet what my opinion about the endings etc. is, but again - that is because that's not what I started this thread for. For what it's worth, I didn't like them either.

It's what I've been thinking all time. I don't like how it ended either. Still, going on a rampage, calling the ME team names and whatever is not how one should respond to.

The BW ME team is just doing their jobs, The release of ME3 used to be end 2011, then moved 6 months forward.  I'm not sure, I heard a "rumor" once that the ME3 team asked for a year. There's probably one person at ( I assume ) EA that pulls the strings and gives the order. Mr. Hudson, Mr Walters probably never had a say in the matter. Don't blame them and please don't blame the Mass Effect team, they have done what they could and IMO they did an excellent job with the ME trilogy.

Raging and ranting on the BSN doesn't get you any further. Constructive feedback is.

Baelrahn, I'm fond of you. you took the words out my mouth. Problem is that I can't write them down in English in an understandable way.

Cheers, my German neighbour.

[TheRealJayDee]

Haargel wrote...

Raging and ranting on the BSN doesn't get you any further. Constructive feedback is.

You see, I'm learning day by day it doesn't.

If you are loud, obnoxious, disrespectful, don't give a **** about site rules and are clearly not interested in serious discussion you
1) get threads locked, regardless of how good and civil a discussion might have been going on
2) might get banned for a while, maybe forever
3) are the official reason why it's impossible for devs to frequent the forums
4) get publicly talked about by Bioware and gaming media
5) seemingly are the official representative of the BSN

If you are civil, don't rage or yell, adhere to the site rules, have critical questions about ME3 and are interested in discussing things you
1) get your threads locked by the mods because of obnoxious people or just because
2) never get a chance to ever talk to someone who actually has anwers
3) get told by Ninja Stan how everything would be better if only people would be constructive and nice
4) are labeled part of the "toxic environment" of the BSN
5) hear from time to time that "there are also nice and intelligent fans" - but that's about it

[Dieb]

You are very welcome, @Haargel.

TheRealJayDee wrote...

You see, I'm learning day by day it doesn't.

If you are loud, obnoxious, disrespectful, don't give a **** about site rules and are clearly not interested in serious discussion you
1) get threads locked, regardless of how good and civil a discussion might have been going on
2) might get banned for a while, maybe forever
3) are the official reason why it's impossible for devs to frequent the forums
4) get publicly talked about by Bioware and gaming media
5) seemingly are the official representative of the BSN

If you are civil, don't rage or yell, adhere to the site rules, have critical questions about ME3 and are interested in discussing things you
1) get your threads locked by the mods because of obnoxious people or just because
2) never get a chance to ever talk to someone who actually has anwers
3) get told by Ninja Stan how everything would be better if only people would be constructive and nice
4) are labeled part of the "toxic environment" of the BSN
5) hear from time to time that "there are also nice and intelligent fans" - but that's about it

"On the Migrant Fleet, we don't have the luxury of dillisuion."

I see where you're coming from. I may be a veteran lurker, but I'm only a rookie poster. But maybe, if our kind is just more stubborn than the stubborn, we might have a shot eventually.

Modifié par Baelrahn, 02 février 2013 - 01:58 .

[FlamingBoy]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Haargel wrote...

Raging and ranting on the BSN doesn't get you any further. Constructive feedback is.

You see, I'm learning day by day it doesn't.

If you are loud, obnoxious, disrespectful, don't give a **** about site rules and are clearly not interested in serious discussion you
1) get threads locked, regardless of how good and civil a discussion might have been going on
2) might get banned for a while, maybe forever
3) are the official reason why it's impossible for devs to frequent the forums
4) get publicly talked about by Bioware and gaming media
5) seemingly are the official representative of the BSN

If you are civil, don't rage or yell, adhere to the site rules, have critical questions about ME3 and are interested in discussing things you
1) get your threads locked by the mods because of obnoxious people or just because
2) never get a chance to ever talk to someone who actually has anwers
3) get told by Ninja Stan how everything would be better if only people would be constructive and nice
4) are labeled part of the "toxic environment" of the BSN
5) hear from time to time that "there are also nice and intelligent fans" - but that's about it

I agree with this, and logic would conclude that the fans are not the cause of the problems

[WolfForce99]

Wraith 02 wrote...

Most of this was easily caused by the absolute blackout of information or feedback from Bioware after the endings.

People were disappointed with the ending and were looking for some some of response to explain what happened but it seems the devs just went quiet and hoped the situation would go away.

Unfortunatley the only way to get the devs attention was to keep shouting louder and make the problem bigger until they had no choice but to answer, After which any legitimate response would be met with hostility as it appeared the community was being ignored.

I agree the problem for me was the dead silence from the devs. So I left bsn for a long while to let bsn cool off.

Modifié par WolfForce99, 02 février 2013 - 04:28 .

[WolfForce99]

IReuven wrote...

Well, from personal experience I can say that calling people names does not work.
A solid mental and/or physical kick in the butt, does work quite nicely. Not like people You did it too will talk to you anymore - but works - I may have lost the friend - but at least he/she is not a hypocritical sack of **** he/she was anymore.
It can be hard, that's for sure, but when You overcome your egoistic need of having a friend in this person while watching him/her rolling down the slope, it's paying it's bills. Shying away from hard decisions is what is making you responsible.

Not like we can do that to Bioware, which sometimes I think is a shame - they could use some tough love sometimes.

But overall, I have to say that apparently the only way the community can do something done is, unfortunately, ****ing loudly, being rude, calling names. Why You ask?
Cause only then the response is visible. Only then PR department cannot hide, and it is an issue with many companies.
In recent years only response I saw caused by somewhat civil complaining was from CDProjektRed regarding III act of The Witcher 2 ( do not get me started on how awesome these guys are - free DLCs, instructions/guides/OSTs in a REGULAR editions of the game, etc. etc. ).

Which is saying something. Adding to that, I have to defend fans in some regards. Only a minority was complaining about day-one-dlc ( cut out of the game ), and other totally disrespectful business practices that were applied to get the most money out of them since ME2. Fans were standing loyal by ME3 no matter what.
But sometimes too much is simply too much.

I comepletly agree with you and the OP and I think it also incudes us bsn members as well. What a lot of bsn members are missing is common courtesy.

Modifié par WolfForce99, 02 février 2013 - 04:11 .

[WolfForce99]

IReuven wrote...


 

WolfForce99 wrote...

IReuven wrote...

Well, from personal experience I can say that calling people names does not work.
A solid mental and/or physical kick in the butt, does work quite nicely. Not like people You did it too will talk to you anymore - but works - I may have lost the friend - but at least he/she is not a hypocritical sack of **** he/she was anymore.
It can be hard, that's for sure, but when You overcome your egoistic need of having a friend in this person while watching him/her rolling down the slope, it's paying it's bills. Shying away from hard decisions is what is making you responsible.

Not like we can do that to Bioware, which sometimes I think is a shame - they could use some tough love sometimes.

But overall, I have to say that apparently the only way the community can do something done is, unfortunately, ****ing loudly, being rude, calling names. Why You ask?
Cause only then the response is visible. Only then PR department cannot hide, and it is an issue with many companies.
In recent years only response I saw caused by somewhat civil complaining was from CDProjektRed regarding III act of The Witcher 2 ( do not get me started on how awesome these guys are - free DLCs, instructions/guides/OSTs in a REGULAR editions of the game, etc. etc. ).

Which is saying something. Adding to that, I have to defend fans in some regards. Only a minority was complaining about day-one-dlc ( cut out of the game ), and other totally disrespectful business practices that were applied to get the most money out of them since ME2. Fans were standing loyal by ME3 no matter what.
But sometimes too much is simply too much.

I comepletly agree with you and the OP and I think it also incudes us bsn members as well. What a lot of bsn members are missing is common courtesy.

Well, issue is that when you are angry staying polite is quite a hard thing to do, and when you are angry and nobody cares to calm you down - you can get on quite a spree. 

I dont agree with you on this. To much is to much and there was way to much.

[Eralrik]

Wow I'm impressed a year has gone by an the ending of Mass Effect 3 is still being talked about, guess it's true this game will be talked about for years to come.

I have just finished my 16th play through of Mass Effect 1 an am working on my 14th play through of Mass Effect 2 and I will say I love these 2 games to the point I really need to get a life <snicker>. Mass Effect 3 I've played twice before the EC and after and I just cannot bring myself to play it again knowing what I know about it after having played it, I would have been perfectly happy with ME3 if it had 1 ending with diffrent variables like in ME2 instead we get the A, B, C ending we were not going to get but ended up getting.
I don't blame BW/EA for the ending while ME3 is great game in of itself and has some really good story telling but left some holes throughout that should have been checked by the alpha testers and beta testers and maybe these testers never played the past 2 ME's to know the story gaps especially from the last ME2 DLC and the Sun that was dieing in Haystrom from black energy matter all these were unanswered.
The choices we made through the past 2 games only mattered in those 2 games much like the fact that in ME1 I saved the human fleet an allowed the destiny ascenion to die in flames an my all human council took over an the other council members all died an look in ME3 those very same council members who died are back in action an in control. <very confused>
But I said my piece and I do love BW/EA even if some of their idea's were way out there but I will still but games from them an may still do pre-orders especially for DA3 as I love the Dragon Age series as well. Though Mass Effect 4 will be a nightmare to write as you now have 4 endings from ME3 to figure in or we could say it was all a bad dream an start fresh.