130 réponses à ce sujet

[Syroel13]

 I remember being on this forum right after ME3 and obviously, it was just flooded with anti-ending posts. Which I do understand and accept but soon around 2 months back I started to get really sick of everyone still angry about the ending. People were yelling for all sorts of changes, adding theories, and basically still in the same angry state as they were back in March.

But I have noticed recently on the forums that their is a wave starting of respect and humility towards bioware and the ME trilogy now. People have stopped making angry posts why they can't have this ending or why can't bioware do this for us and so on. There is a trend going that people are done complaining and asking for the game to be THEIR way and starting to give thanks to Bioware for making one of the greatest gaming trilogies in history. 

It is no longer, "How can I get them to make what I want" or "Why won't you completely redo the ending for us."

Now people are alot more enthusiastic about the upcoming DLC's and giving thank you posts to Bioware and their employees and it is a sight for sore eyes. I hope this will continue in the direction it's headed and we can all appreciate what we got from them rather than what we didn't.

Modifié par Syroel13, 31 janvier 2013 - 02:39 .

[Clayless]

Technically it's been getting better for a while. It took 2 months before people acknowledged there was more than one ending, but that's still technically better than it was before that.

Most of the loud complainers have left. I think the people that haven't bought any DLC, and wont unless their demands are met, are in the minority now. When this next DLC comes out I assume they'll finally leave and do something more productive with their time.

[Syroel13]

Robosexual wrote...

Technically it's been getting better for a while. It took 2 months before people acknowledged there was more than one ending, but that's still technically better than it was before that.

Most of the loud complainers have left. I think the people that haven't bought any DLC, and wont unless their demands are met, are in the minority now. When this next DLC comes out I assume they'll finally leave and do something more productive with their time.

You are right that it is getting better but I'm finally seeing more pro bioware posts then I do anti. Which makes me happy. 

[Dubozz]

Nobody cares anymore. Last DLC is going to be a salvation for bioware or the last nail to it's coffin for a lot of people.

Modifié par Dubozz, 31 janvier 2013 - 02:37 .

[Morty Smith]

Robosexual wrote...

Technically it's been getting better for a while. It took 2 months before people acknowledged there was more than one ending, but that's still technically better than it was before that.

Most of the loud complainers have left. I think the people that haven't bought any DLC, and wont unless their demands are met, are in the minority now. When this next DLC comes out I assume they'll finally leave and do something more productive with their time.

No counterproductive provocation here. Everything is okay.

[mcgreggers99]

I think a big part of it was the Doctors leaving....whether or not the people on this forum will admit it I think the straw that broke the camel's back for Ray and Greg was due to the backlash (that and TOR tanking) I think a lot of people here felt just a *tad* bit guilty about their reactions to the ending.

[Iakus]

Dubozz wrote...

Nobody cares anymore. Last DLC is going to be a salvation for bioware or the last nail to it's coffin for a lot of people.

I think it's less "nobody cares" and more "He's dad, Jim"   If this upcoming dlc really is the last, then there's no hope left for ME3.  At this point it's little more than a deathwatch.

What will really be interesting will be how many come back for ME#, and how many will have been driven away permanently.

[duckley]

I have always worried that the over the top unconstructive criticism would cause damage to Bioware and then I would be left with no good games to play. Poor me LOL

Good ending or bad, re cycled environments or not, Bioware is the only company that I know of that makes games with wonderful, well-written characters, humour, deep stories, fascinating lore

[BearlyHere]

duckley wrote...

I have always worried that the over the top but valid criticism would cause damage to Bioware and then I would be left with no good games to play. Poor me LOL

Good ending or bad, re cycled environments or not, Bioware is the only company that I used to know of that makes games with wonderful, well-written characters, humour, deep stories, fascinating lore

Fixed that for you.

Bioware has done enough damage to themselves. If they want to shift gears and make cheaper, faster to produce shooters, that's their perogative, but the final game of a trilogy was a poor place to make that shift.  And BTW, there are other good games out there. I still haven't finished Skyrim's dlcs. Imagine, a dlc with weeks, not hours, of gameplay. I'm also on my fourth play through of Dishonored, which was too short for the price, but has rich new setting to be developed.

[LiarasShield]

oh the ending still lingers and the catalyst being the main problem destroying the reapers as being incrediable mysterious villians pretty much puppets on the puppeters strings so again some of us don't agree how the ending was played but most of the me series was good

[FlamingBoy]

that's pretty shotty logic op, but if you feel that it's getting better who am I to argue.
We will see what will happen for the finale dlc

[Xellith]

People stopped posting ending threads when the mods locked them every time one was posted.

[FlamingBoy]

Xellith wrote...

People stopped posting ending threads when the mods locked them every time one was posted.

yeah, unfortunately thats a form of censorship

[The_Animal81]

Dubozz wrote...

Nobody cares anymore. Last DLC is going to be a salvation for bioware or the last nail to it's coffin for a lot of people.

Thats where I am at right now....you guys can say what you want, but I hated the endings and havent bought any DLC from Bioware, once I see what this final DLC is, will depend if I by the other DLC or not.

But I have been getting back into the multiplayer 

[GimmeDaGun]

FlamingBoy wrote...

Xellith wrote...

People stopped posting ending threads when the mods locked them every time one was posted.

yeah, unfortunately thats a form of censorship

Not really, since you could (and can) still write your opinion like a thousand times and no one banned you or deleted your posts. But when so many "ending" related topics emerge at the same time (mind you, they're all discussing the same thing) that you can't see anything else on the first page but...well, "the ending", you as mod tend to lock a few of these down in order to herd the discussion into one topic, rather than letting people spam the forums with new threads every second just to vent it out and let others know their own individual opinion, like it was so importatnt that it needed a seperate topic (while they could have shared it in one or two topics instead). That's what moderators do. If there was any kind of censorship here regarding opinions of the ending... it wouldn't have got so boring. 



Also, many of these topics turned into a vulgar hate threads with lots of bickering, cursing and distateful remarks. Moderators lock these kind of topics without hesitation. 

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 31 janvier 2013 - 04:32 .

[BrotherArdis]

Syroel13 wrote...
(...) their is a wave starting of respect and humility towards bioware and the ME trilogy now. (...) There is a trend going that people are done complaining and asking for the game to be THEIR way and starting to give thanks to Bioware for making one of the greatest gaming trilogies in history. 

It is no longer, "How can I get them to make what I want" or "Why won't you completely redo the ending for us."

Now people are alot more enthusiastic about the upcoming DLC's and giving thank you posts to Bioware and their employees (...)

Basically, what you're saying is "people have finally given up on thinking on their own and are starting to accept whatever they're being fed". That's every businessman's and politician's dream for sure, but I'm not certain if it's a good sign when a regular person says that...


As a side matter:

humility

Really? Humility? I thought I ought to be humble before God, and perhaps my king (if I lived in a feudal monarchy), but certainly not before a merchant who's trying to sell me something.

Modifié par BrotherArdis, 31 janvier 2013 - 04:31 .

[Mathias]

Syroel13 wrote...

 I remember being on this forum right after ME3 and obviously, it was just flooded with anti-ending posts. Which I do understand and accept but soon around 2 months back I started to get really sick of everyone still angry about the ending. People were yelling for all sorts of changes, adding theories, and basically still in the same angry state as they were back in March.

But I have noticed recently on the forums that their is a wave starting of respect and humility towards bioware and the ME trilogy now. People have stopped making angry posts why they can't have this ending or why can't bioware do this for us and so on. There is a trend going that people are done complaining and asking for the game to be THEIR way and starting to give thanks to Bioware for making one of the greatest gaming trilogies in history. 

It is no longer, "How can I get them to make what I want" or "Why won't you completely redo the ending for us."

Now people are alot more enthusiastic about the upcoming DLC's and giving thank you posts to Bioware and their employees and it is a sight for sore eyes. I hope this will continue in the direction it's headed and we can all appreciate what we got from them rather than what we didn't.

I'm not noticing that trend at all...

It's been pretty much the same old story, song, and dance on these forums for almost a year now. And if you think more and more people are starting to respect Bioware again, you need to keep dreaming dude. I'm not saying there aren't any, but you should probably keep this optimism of yours, as close to your chest as possible.

[FlamingBoy]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Xellith wrote...

People stopped posting ending threads when the mods locked them every time one was posted.

yeah, unfortunately thats a form of censorship

Not really, since you could (and can) still write your opinion like a thousand times and no one banned you or deleted your posts. But when so many "ending" related topics emerge at the same time (mind you, they're all discussing the same thing) that you can't see anything else on the first page but...well, "the ending", you as mod tend to lock a few of these down in order to herd the discussion into one topic, rather than letting people spam the forums with new threads every second just to vent it out and let others know their own individual opinion, like it was so importatnt that it needed a seperate topic (while they could have shared it in one or two topics instead). That's what moderators do. If there was any kind of censorship here regarding opinions of the ending... it wouldn't have got so boring. 



Also, many of these topics turned into a vulgar hate threads with lots of bickering, cursing and distateful remarks. Moderators lock these kind of topics without hesitation. 

try to rationlize it whatever way you can mate
still does not change what it is

[GimmeDaGun]

Well, I never had a problem with opinions (I also express mine without hesitation and I know that many doesn't like what I write or doesn't share my views, which is fine), I only found and still find this "I/we demand the game to be changed the way I/we want it to be", "I/we demand a new ending to the story", "it's what fans want" etc. "entitled" attitude. That's immature and ridiculous IMO. You dislike/resent/hate the game and/or its ending? Fine. You want to vent it out and write "valid" (and very subjective) criticism about it every single day (though I find this "(almost) everyday basis frequency" a bit over the top and...well, obsessed...again it's my opinion)? Fine, go for it, and do it! But still you got to accept that your opinion is just one and won't really change a thing. Yes, even if it is shared by thousands...hundreds of thousands (with many differences between each opinions and wants even on that side of the fence). The world of creative works is not a democracy: this is an intellectual product we are talking about: I'm talking about thestory's ending and not the product itself. The product is working fine (so there's nothing to demand there - we got our money's worth), the rest is creative freedom. You can't make a writer rewrite a story just because you don't like it. It's that simple (so in this case it's kudos to Casey's team that they made the EC in the first place). You can make polls, surveys and write your feedback. That's it, but demanding in this case is ridiculous. Ranting and raging because you don't get what you demanded... it's beyond ridiculous.

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 31 janvier 2013 - 05:26 .

[Mathias]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Well, I never had a problem with opinions (I also express mine without hesitation and I know that many doesn't like what I write or share my views, which is fine), I only found and still find this "I/we demand the game to be changed the way I/we want it to be", "I/we demand a new ending to the story", "it's what fans want" etc. "entitled" attitude. That's immature and ridiculous IMO. You dislike/resent/hate the game and/or its ending? Fine. You want to vent it out and write "valid" (and very subjective) criticism about it every single day (though I find this "(almost) everyday basis frequency" a bit over the top and...well, obsessed...again it's my opinion)? Fine, go for it, and do it! But still you got to accept that your opinion is just one and won't really change a thing. Yes, even if it is shared by thousands...hundreds of thousands (with many differences between each opinions and wants even on that side of the fence). The world of creative works is not a democracy: this is an intellectual product we are talking about: I'm talking about thestory's ending and not the product itself. The product is working fine (so there's nothing to demand there - we got our money's worth), the rest is creative freedom. You can't make a writer rewrite a story just because you don't like it. It's that simple (so in this case it's kudos to Casey's team that they made the EC in the first place). You can make polls, surveys and write your feedback. That's it, but demanding in this case is ridiculous. Ranting and raging because you don't get what you demanded... it's beyond ridiculous.

It would've been suicide for their company to not have done something about that ending. I can't really give them kudos for that. Say for example they could see into the future, and that DA3 and ME4 would sell just as well, if not better, then they most likely would not have done the EC.

[FlamingBoy]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Well, I never had a problem with opinions (I also express mine without hesitation and I know that many doesn't like what I write or share my views, which is fine), I only found and still find this "I/we demand the game to be changed the way I/we want it to be", "I/we demand a new ending to the story", "it's what fans want" etc. "entitled" attitude. That's immature and ridiculous IMO. You dislike/resent/hate the game and/or its ending? Fine. You want to vent it out and write "valid" (and very subjective) criticism about it every single day (though I find this "(almost) everyday basis frequency" a bit over the top and...well, obsessed...again it's my opinion)? Fine, go for it, and do it! But still you got to accept that your opinion is just one and won't really change a thing. Yes, even if it is shared by thousands...hundreds of thousands (with many differences between each opinions and wants even on that side of the fence). The world of creative works is not a democracy: this is an intellectual product we are talking about: I'm talking about thestory's ending and not the product itself. The product is working fine (so there's nothing to demand there - we got our money's worth), the rest is creative freedom. You can't make a writer rewrite a story just because you don't like it. It's that simple (so in this case it's kudos to Casey's team that they made the EC in the first place). You can make polls, surveys and write your feedback. That's it, but demanding in this case is ridiculous. Ranting and raging because you don't get what you demanded... it's beyond ridiculous.

I am arguing this same concept with some one on another forum, you can look it up, because its beyond my interest to have my integrity attacked with this ludicrious "entitlement" concept.

Our orginal post was about censorship and it cannot be rationalized

[GimmeDaGun]

FlamingBoy wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Xellith wrote...

People stopped posting ending threads when the mods locked them every time one was posted.

yeah, unfortunately thats a form of censorship

Not really, since you could (and can) still write your opinion like a thousand times and no one banned you or deleted your posts. But when so many "ending" related topics emerge at the same time (mind you, they're all discussing the same thing) that you can't see anything else on the first page but...well, "the ending", you as mod tend to lock a few of these down in order to herd the discussion into one topic, rather than letting people spam the forums with new threads every second just to vent it out and let others know their own individual opinion, like it was so importatnt that it needed a seperate topic (while they could have shared it in one or two topics instead). That's what moderators do. If there was any kind of censorship here regarding opinions of the ending... it wouldn't have got so boring. 



Also, many of these topics turned into a vulgar hate threads with lots of bickering, cursing and distateful remarks. Moderators lock these kind of topics without hesitation. 

try to rationlize it whatever way you can mate
still does not change what it is

Well, my country was under the totalitarian rule of the CCCP (The Soviet Union) for a long time, I was born in those times and spent my early years in a dictatorship. Both my grandfathers were punished for being an enemy of the system: one of them was a soldier fighting the soviets in WW2, the other was a son of a man (my great-grandfather) who took part in the invasion of the Soviet Union and died there as a hero... also both my grandfathers took part in the revolution and freedom fight in 1956... they were internated for this after the russians crushed the rebellion, and they were lucky. Let alone the fact that everything was taken away from them. One of them was even kidnapped by the state police many years later for two weeks of interogation (and torture, though he never talked about it). My father was accused of parttaking of the organisation of a resistent movement (rightfully), he was reported by one of his university teachers, he was also smuggling stuff and "samisdats" (forbidden literature) to Romania during the revolution there. In those times you couldn't even learn about your own country's history and your religion, only lies.

Sorry for boring you with such family and country stuff: but believe me, I know a thing or two about censorship and opression, and what you see here is not censorship. I wasn't rationalising anything: it is not censorship, only moderating. There's a huge difference there. ...if anti-ending opinions were censored here, you couldn't have written your opinion about the endings in these forums at all, and you woulnd't see so many anti-ending topics and opinions still...and I wouldn't be bored to death by them.

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 31 janvier 2013 - 05:24 .

[GimmeDaGun]

FlamingBoy wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Well, I never had a problem with opinions (I also express mine without hesitation and I know that many doesn't like what I write or share my views, which is fine), I only found and still find this "I/we demand the game to be changed the way I/we want it to be", "I/we demand a new ending to the story", "it's what fans want" etc. "entitled" attitude. That's immature and ridiculous IMO. You dislike/resent/hate the game and/or its ending? Fine. You want to vent it out and write "valid" (and very subjective) criticism about it every single day (though I find this "(almost) everyday basis frequency" a bit over the top and...well, obsessed...again it's my opinion)? Fine, go for it, and do it! But still you got to accept that your opinion is just one and won't really change a thing. Yes, even if it is shared by thousands...hundreds of thousands (with many differences between each opinions and wants even on that side of the fence). The world of creative works is not a democracy: this is an intellectual product we are talking about: I'm talking about thestory's ending and not the product itself. The product is working fine (so there's nothing to demand there - we got our money's worth), the rest is creative freedom. You can't make a writer rewrite a story just because you don't like it. It's that simple (so in this case it's kudos to Casey's team that they made the EC in the first place). You can make polls, surveys and write your feedback. That's it, but demanding in this case is ridiculous. Ranting and raging because you don't get what you demanded... it's beyond ridiculous.

I am arguing this same concept with some one on another forum, you can look it up, because its beyond my interest to have my integrity attacked with this ludicrious "entitlement" concept.

Our orginal post was about censorship and it cannot be rationalized

This topic is not about censorship, only you and Xellith mentioned it (I wrote my opinion on that in another post), and this quoted post of mine is not an answer to yours but to the original post. I didn't write this to argue. It is an opinion, my opinion. You disagree? Fine. I disagree with you. If you want to debate, adress the things I wrote, if not... leave it alone. Simple. Telling me to look up your opinion while making it clear that you are not interested in mine is quite amusing, since it's you who addressed me in this case and not the other way around. If you want me to read it copy it here, otherwise I leave it alone. So I don't even get why you mentioned it. Also what I wrote is not a concept, but an observation and opinion. You find it ridiculous? Good for you. I find some people's constant urge to express their demands concerning the game and it's ending ridiculous. We are even. 

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 31 janvier 2013 - 05:26 .

[GimmeDaGun]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Well, I never had a problem with opinions (I also express mine without hesitation and I know that many doesn't like what I write or share my views, which is fine), I only found and still find this "I/we demand the game to be changed the way I/we want it to be", "I/we demand a new ending to the story", "it's what fans want" etc. "entitled" attitude. That's immature and ridiculous IMO. You dislike/resent/hate the game and/or its ending? Fine. You want to vent it out and write "valid" (and very subjective) criticism about it every single day (though I find this "(almost) everyday basis frequency" a bit over the top and...well, obsessed...again it's my opinion)? Fine, go for it, and do it! But still you got to accept that your opinion is just one and won't really change a thing. Yes, even if it is shared by thousands...hundreds of thousands (with many differences between each opinions and wants even on that side of the fence). The world of creative works is not a democracy: this is an intellectual product we are talking about: I'm talking about thestory's ending and not the product itself. The product is working fine (so there's nothing to demand there - we got our money's worth), the rest is creative freedom. You can't make a writer rewrite a story just because you don't like it. It's that simple (so in this case it's kudos to Casey's team that they made the EC in the first place). You can make polls, surveys and write your feedback. That's it, but demanding in this case is ridiculous. Ranting and raging because you don't get what you demanded... it's beyond ridiculous.

It would've been suicide for their company to not have done something about that ending. I can't really give them kudos for that. Say for example they could see into the future, and that DA3 and ME4 would sell just as well, if not better, then they most likely would not have done the EC.

Yeah, I got to agree that it was addressing a problem which could have caused them a lot of money (not sure about suicide though), but still it was their call. They could have gone all cynical and say: this the ending, take it or leave it. To me the EC made the endings complete, I liked the concept of it before, only disliked the execution (felt rushed), so I'm kind of greatful to Bioware for producing the EC. But I get your point, and have to agree with it.

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 31 janvier 2013 - 05:31 .

[FlamingBoy]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Xellith wrote...

People stopped posting ending threads when the mods locked them every time one was posted.

yeah, unfortunately thats a form of censorship

Not really, since you could (and can) still write your opinion like a thousand times and no one banned you or deleted your posts. But when so many "ending" related topics emerge at the same time (mind you, they're all discussing the same thing) that you can't see anything else on the first page but...well, "the ending", you as mod tend to lock a few of these down in order to herd the discussion into one topic, rather than letting people spam the forums with new threads every second just to vent it out and let others know their own individual opinion, like it was so importatnt that it needed a seperate topic (while they could have shared it in one or two topics instead). That's what moderators do. If there was any kind of censorship here regarding opinions of the ending... it wouldn't have got so boring. 



Also, many of these topics turned into a vulgar hate threads with lots of bickering, cursing and distateful remarks. Moderators lock these kind of topics without hesitation. 

try to rationlize it whatever way you can mate
still does not change what it is

Well, my country was under the totalitarian rule of the CCCP (The Soviet Union) for a long time, I was born in those times and spent my early years in a dictatorship. Both my grandfathers were punished for being an enemy of the system: one of them was a soldier fighting the soviets in WW2, the other was a son of a man (my great-grandfather) who took part in the invasion of the Soviet Union and died there as a hero... also both my grandfathers took part in the revolution and freedom fight in 1956... they were internated for this after the russians crushed the rebellion, and they were lucky. Let alone the fact that everything was taken away from them. One of them was even kidnapped by the state police many years later for two weeks of interogation (and torture, though he never talked about it). My father was accused of parttaking of the organisation of a resistent movement (rightfully), he was reported by one of his university teachers, he was also smuggling stuff and "samisdats" (forbidden literature) to Romania during the revolution there. In those times you couldn't even learn about your own country's history and your religion, only lies.

Sorry for boring you with such family and country stuff: but believe me, I know a thing or two about censorship and opression, and what you see here is not censorship. I wasn't rationalising anything: it is not censorship, only moderating. There's a huge difference there. ...if anti-ending opinions were censored here, you couldn't have written your opinion about the endings in these forums at all, and you woulnd't see so many anti-ending topics and opinions still...and I wouldn't be bored to death by them.

sad that despite what your family went through you cannot spot the concept of censorship, it is a wide definition

I am highly experience in east european history, so yeah I know a tad more about  it than u think
some of posts were locked not all, it does not matter

Edit: just occured to me your history in the soviet bloc nor my personal feeling are not relevant its an "appeal to emotion" fallacy due to completely different worlds we are talking about

Modifié par FlamingBoy, 31 janvier 2013 - 05:43 .