130 réponses à ce sujet

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Teddie Sage wrote...

Xellith wrote...

People stopped posting ending threads when the mods locked them every time one was posted.

We can't even talk about IT and the endings anymore. There's so much censorship going on the boards that it's not fun talking about the franchise these days.

You guys don't talk about the franchise. You bring up the IT all the time and then use those threads to **** to no end about how Bioware screwed you guys over and how the endings suck. The mods are doing the right thing by locking those threads.

[AlexMBrennan]

I started to get really sick of everyone still angry about the ending

So, you expected Bioware not addressing any criticism or even talking to fans would magically make people happier?

I'm still waiting for that refund for the game I would not have bought if it had not been for the blatantly untrue PR (e.g. Infamous "Rachni have a huge impact" comment made a week before the release). Why should the passage of time make me feel better about this?

If anything, it makes me want to tell more people not to buy Bioware games.

Now people are alot more enthusiastic about the upcoming DLC's and giving thank you posts to Bioware and their employees and it is a sight for sore eyes

That's debatable. My guess would be that those asking for changes (e.g. Retake ME) got the message that Bioware doesn't care. That leaves those happy with the game and people and people who care about the franchise whilst being... weary of Bioware

I think a big part of it was the Doctors leaving....whether or not the people on this forum will admit it I think the straw that broke the camel's back for Ray and Greg was due to the backlash (that and TOR tanking) I think a lot of people here felt just a *tad* bit guilty about their reactions to the ending.

If customers complaining about being lied to hurts your feelings then don't have your staff lie to customers. Simples.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 31 janvier 2013 - 09:00 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Official DJ Harbinger wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Teddie Sage wrote...

Xellith wrote...

People stopped posting ending threads when the mods locked them every time one was posted.

We can't even talk about IT and the endings anymore. There's so much censorship going on the boards that it's not fun talking about the franchise these days.

You guys don't talk about the franchise. You bring up the IT all the time and then use those threads to **** to no end about how Bioware screwed you guys over and how the endings suck. The mods are doing the right thing by locking those threads.

Yeah... I mean... why should we have opinions? Let's all just get under BioWare's boot and "deal with it."..

****ing about something is not giving an opinion. You probably should "deal with it" and move on like a normal person.

[AlexMBrennan]

****ing about something is not giving an opinion. You probably should "deal with it" and move on like a normal person.

That's hardly the spirit that the nation where you can sue people for not putting warning labels on coffee is built on.
You're just gonna let them take your money and "deal with it"?

[Ninja Stan]

Han Shot First wrote...

To be fair, Bioware was as much responsible for the negativity as the fanbase. Initially when the endings were being critcized Bioware's response was to cite all the positive reviews from critics

Companies will always cite positive critical reviews to promote their product, as if they want to sell that product. Do you know of any company that cites mediocre or negative critical reviews in its advertising and promotion? When you look at the video packaging for, say, a Uwe Boll film, does it tout the director's negative public opinions or does it try to make the film sound exciting and enticing to a consumer? Do you see film trailers advertising a "Razzie-nominated actor" or an "Academy Award nominee"?

(suggesting unintentionally that its the critics and not the fans who matter) and dismissing those complaining about the endings as entitled whiners who were too stupid to understand the 'art' in the endings.

When promoting their product, companies do tend to favour the opinion of professional reviewers because they are ostensibly accountable to their employers to be objective and professional, have a large audience, and favourable reviews offer additional material the company can use to further make their product look good. User reviews tend to be emotionally-driven, completely subjective, and, when posted to the internet, hyperbolic and anonymous, not the kind of stuff you can build marketing strategies around.

Secondly, BioWare has never dismissed legitimate complaints or complainants as "entitled whiners." That label was used by the community to describe users who demanded BioWare change the game, due to reasons of "I pay your salary," "I am a paying customer," "you owe me," and the like. In short, those who screamed a lot and acted like spoiled children in the community were the ones being labeled as "entitled whiners." Those who expressed frustration and disappointment without being petulant in their demands were not so labeled. This is now being used as a meme to justify people's continued anger and frustration, but it is untrue.

Thirdly, "artistic integrity" was never used to dismiss negative feedback or to respond to constructive criticism. Ray used similar terminology in a blog post wherein he showed support for hard work of the Mass Effect 3 and Mass Effect franchise teams in the light of overwhelming freaking out online. The blog post showed how much Ray appreciated and loved his own company, which may have been helpful amid the swearing, name-calling, calls for firings, and other verbal abuse running rampant online. This is now being used as a meme to justify people's continued anger and frustration, but many people's interpretation of it is wrong.

That isn't how any company should handle criticism of one of their products.

You're absolutely right, and it is not at all how BioWare handled criticism of one of their products, contrary to what some might think. I'm not saying BioWare of ME3 are flawless or don't deserve criticism, but if you're going to criticize, it would be better if the information on which you're basing your criticism is correct. Mindlessly parroting internet memes does not help your case; in fact, it may hinder your chances of people taking your criticisms seriously.

Bioware totally failed at public relations, and were responsible for fanning the flames of the controversy. They provided ammo to the loudest and most obnoxious of the company's critics, and insulted and angered many who had been up to that point had just been voicing constructive criticism of the endings. If I had to point to a moment when the whole ending controversy went nuclear, it was after Bioware's ham-fisted response to the criticism.

This statement is interesting, considering most people's assertion that BioWare has remained quiet and uncommunicative in the wake of the controversy (aside from the statements that have since been turned into internet memes, of course). Having been a Moderator of BioWare's online community for over 11 years, and having worked at the company since that time, I would say that you are either remembering things incorrectly or running events through your own, subjective filter.

A company can't be ham-fisted if it is unresponsive (is ham-fisted silence and inaction a thing?), just as NOT collecting stamps is not a hobby.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

****ing about something is not giving an opinion. You probably should "deal with it" and move on like a normal person.

That's hardly the spirit that the nation where you can sue people for not putting warning labels on coffee is built on.
You're just gonna let them take your money and "deal with it"?

They didn't steal my money. I paid for what was on the disc and that's what I got. I have already expressed my opinions about the content that was on the disc.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 31 janvier 2013 - 09:16 .

[Ninja Stan]

I would like to remind this thread that calls for others to "stop complaining and move on" are antithetical to the spirit of discussion on the BSN.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Ninja Stan wrote...

I would like to remind this thread that calls for others to "stop complaining and move on" are antithetical to the spirit of discussion on the BSN.

Chris Priestly has said the same thing that I'm saying now. If you don't like Bioware's products, you should probably give your opinion and then move on. It's unproductive to stay here after that just to **** and hate on Bioware every chance you get.

"The spirit of discussion on the BSN" <---- It's great when it works, but it rarely ever does.

[The Real Bowser]

You'll also notice how much less active the forums are.  Most of the years long hardcore Bioware fans have moved on from the game.  People aren't really excited about new DLC, people are just hoping the new DLC is actually good.  Many still hope for ending changing or post ending DLC, and that says a lot.

The anti-ending posts were reasonable at first.  However, then the hardcore fanboys got up in droves and started brutally attacking anyone who dared to say that Bioware milking its money cow wasn't acceptable.  Then they got defensive and rude in response, and the forums went to hell.  I'm not saying that people weren't attacking Bioware, but they were few and far between, and the hardcore fanboy crowd lumped them all together, if that even mattered to them to begin with.  Frankly I just think they hated we dare criticize Bioware's 'artistic integrity'.

The fact that people are so closed minded and ignorant is what caused the forums to be garbage, and that never changed.  The only thing that has changed is that people gave up and moved on.  I had done the same, I only recently returned, and let me tell you, I am not interested in future DLC unless it is post ending or ending-changing DLC.

My question is this: Why the hell do people keep bringing this topic back up?  "The forum is nicer than it was when everyone was brutally attacking eachother over the ending."  Yeah, thanks for reopening that wound so that we can all revel in it once more.

Modifié par The Real Bowser, 31 janvier 2013 - 09:59 .

[Fuzrum77]

It will get even "nicer" once this last DLC lands: no matter what it is. If by some miracle it's post-ending or it drastically affects the current endings in some wonderful way, that's going to please a lot of us disappointed by the ending. (please, please, please) And if it doesn't, then I'd say a lot of us hangers-on will finally throw our hands in the air, finally say: "I give up" and leave for good. I know I will. Oh it may get temporarily toxic again for a brief period, but that won't last long when there's absolutely no more hope left. That's my take on it anyway.

[Cuttlebone]

Xellith wrote...

People stopped posting ending threads when the mods locked them every time one was posted.

That's because there was an official one.

[frostajulie]

The_Animal81 wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

Nobody cares anymore. Last DLC is going to be a salvation for bioware or the last nail to it's coffin for a lot of people.

Thats where I am at right now....you guys can say what you want, but I hated the endings and havent bought any DLC from Bioware, once I see what this final DLC is, will depend if I by the other DLC or not.

yup

Modifié par frostajulie, 31 janvier 2013 - 11:24 .

[99DP1982]

duckley wrote...

I have always worried that the over the top unconstructive criticism would cause damage to Bioware and then I would be left with no good games to play. Poor me LOL

Good ending or bad, re cycled environments or not, Bioware is the only company that I know of that makes games with wonderful, well-written characters, humour, deep stories, fascinating lore

I know at least one better - Obsidian.

[Nerevar-as]

simfamSP wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

Nobody cares anymore. Last DLC is going to be a salvation for bioware or the last nail to it's coffin for a lot of people.

I heard people say the same thing about DA2... and yet they're still here. I'm glad that the forum's fire has died down a little. It was getting to the point where you just couldn't talk about ME3 in a positive way unless you wanted to argue with five different people at once.

Of course, there are still users who hate ME3 with a passion. I've got some memorised so I can tell them to stop their blathering.

Hell, just the other day StElmo made a public apology. I don't know her/him well enough to actually have noticed his/her ME3 hate, but it's nice to see. There are other - albeit less positive -  apologies elsewhere, and even thank you letters! It's great to come here and actually *discuss* with level-headed people, and both praise and criticise ME3 for it's great moments (which there are many) and flaws or missed opportunities (which there are also, many.)

Well, I´m still here. But I´d say a lot of people just played what they considered a disaster and moved on. It´s the ones who are passionate about it who stay even if dissapointed. I´m still interested in the setting, even though I don´t think much of DA2. But if DA:I fails to deliver too, then I´m out.

I also admit I enjoyed most of ME3. Even with its at times very clumsy attemps at tugging our emotions. But for months I couldn´t believe you could screw a whole saga in 5 minutes without actually trying to do so. At least I´ve saved a bit of money not getting the DLCs.

[fainmaca]

Sorry, Stan, but Bioware really have f**ked up in handling this situation. You're the ones who haven't had an open dialogue with your consumer base after the excrement hit the windmill. When you have made statements, they have been blanket PR BS in which you heavily insinuate that the fans themselves are at fault for not understanding and not being satisfied with the way you chose to end a series into which they had invested who knows how much time and emotion. Blog posts have either ignored the issues the consumer base have with the product, or they're a litany of 'poor me' pleas for sympathy.

There have been some unreasonable posters on here and out in the larger community of players, but the so-called toxic environment on these boards is something of your own making. Your insistence on pushing this flawed vision you had for the final game has led you to alienate a large portion of your own customers, and the continued perception of an indifferent, uncaring faceless corporation has caused the anger and rot to set in.

The fault doesn't lie entirely with Bioware, but much of the blame is yours.

[fainmaca]

A lot of the attitudes I see in this thread are becoming more and more prevalent on these boards. It makes me feel like there's no room here for my ilk any more. Which is a shame.

For the record, I liked The Old Republic (Still do, and am about to finish my SI storyline, the third character I've completed), and I never played the DA games in the first place, so ME3 is the first and only game to have disappointed me, but the disappointment is so grave, the investment I had in the series was so much, that it really is enough to make me avoid all future BW products. Speaking as somebody who considered BW to be my role models for their way of delivering a story and making me feel for characters, this is saying a lot.

[fainmaca]

simfamSP wrote...
How could they if all the consumer base *demanded* were new endings. Any attempt at civil dialogue would have ended in disaster when the *vast* amount of trolls popped in 'for a chat.' Their response was the EC, something many people simply do not see the enormity of the endeavour.

A new ending is not the only thing the consumer base demanded. Maybe it was the loudest complaint, but not the only one. For me, it was the fact that my investment in the series up until the opening of ME3 was entirely irrelevant. It was the fact that ME3 blundered from one plot to another with reckless abandon, the polish on what should have been the jewel in Bioware's crown being lackluster at best. The worst thing Bioware could possibly have offered to someone like me was A) material to further entrench the material that had broken the story (Leviathan and the EC) and more plots that ultimately go nowhere fast because the main plot of ME3 (endings included, admittedly) render them flat and meaningless (Omega and Leviathan).

It was up to Bioware to keep the lines of communication open. They clammed up. Persisting in trying to reach out to the fanbase would have helped reach some kind of middle ground with the disenfranchised. Instead people got more and more frustrated, leading to more and more of the so-called 'toxic' posts around here.

[FlamingBoy]

Anyone else find it weird that fans, people on the internet if you will are held to higher standard than developers, journalist, and publishers combined!
I am the only who thinks companies that exist to "serve" a consumer should be held to a higher standard

Simple complaints are labled as entitled, whiners, stupid, haters, and other things. These kind of statements are direct insults of course people will react negatively about it

[FlamingBoy]

Cuttlebone wrote...

Xellith wrote...

People stopped posting ending threads when the mods locked them every time one was posted.

That's because there was an official one.

well thats the thing isn't it there is sooo much to talk about the endings, a rediculous amount of topics, that it can't really be limited to one thing

[TheRealJayDee]

fainmaca wrote...

It was up to Bioware to keep the lines of communication open. They clammed up. Persisting in trying to reach out to the fanbase would have helped reach some kind of middle ground with the disenfranchised. Instead people got more and more frustrated, leading to more and more of the so-called 'toxic' posts around here.

I very much believe this to be true. I know I'm still getting more and more frustrated, although I should know better by now and just ignore the ME3 forums completely. Off-topic is kind of a nice place to be.