130 réponses à ce sujet

[RocketManSR2]

Stan, you explained how feedback is actually handled and how any suggestions probably won't see some form of implementation (if at all) until the next game (or future IPs), but I still find it sad that BioWare will let this trilogy end on a whimper and go out like it did (IMO). Some of the design team has to think the same thing. They have individual opinions, too, and not all could have been happy about it. That is what a lot of us would like, a frank discussion with the team. No finger pointing, just a critique of their own work and ways they can improve on future games. As it stands now, I won't be buying future products because I am concerned about being disappointed again. Until now, I hadn't had any such problem with BioWare's games.

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 02 février 2013 - 07:15 .

[Metalunatic]

It's because most of the people frustrated about the game left these forums. Gave up on ME in other words.

[Ninja Stan]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Stan, you explained how feedback is actually handled and how any suggestions probably won't see some form of implementation (if at all) until the next game (or future IPs), but I still find it sad that BioWare will let this trilogy end on a whimper and go out like it did (IMO). Some of the design team has to think the same thing. They have individual opinions, too, and not all could have been happy about it. That is what a lot of us would like, a frank discussion with the team.

Something like this is unlikely to happen, not with "the team." You might find an individual team member who is willing to have a conversation about the game, but it's unlikely to be the kind of "frank discussion" you want. A frank discussion usually implies blunt honesty and freely discussing things, which a developer still under contract would not be able to participate in. Even I wouldn't be comfortable having a "frank discussion" with you guys, and I no longer work for the company. I feel a lot freer to speak up these days, but it's still not the discussion you want.

No finger pointing, just a critique of their own work and ways they can improve on future games.

I'm reasonably certain that's what gathering information from the fans and post-mortem discusisons are designed to do. If this is the case, they've already heard the critique from both external (fan/community/critics) and internal (supervisor/department/project team) sources.

As it stands now, I won't be buying future products because I am concerned about being disappointed again. Until now, I hadn't had any such problem with BioWare's games.

While I am happy to hear that you haven't been disappointed by BioWare games up to this point, I am a little surprised that you would think that it would never happen, or that being disappointed by an entertainment product is kind of a foreign concept to you.

[Dusen]

Ninja Stan wrote...

While I am happy to hear that you haven't been disappointed by BioWare games up to this point, I am a little surprised that you would think that it would never happen, or that being disappointed by an entertainment product is kind of a foreign concept to you.

There's disappointment. . . and then there are Mass Effect 3 levels of disappointment.

Modifié par Dusen, 02 février 2013 - 09:25 .

[Sejborg]

It helped when they removed the IT talk to the groups.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Dubozz wrote...

Nobody cares anymore. Last DLC is going to be a salvation for bioware or the last nail to it's coffin for a lot of people.

I just wanted to say that I agree with this.  I haven't bought any ME3 DLC yet because I'm waiting on something in particular, whether it be "ending" or "post-ending".  I will reserve judgment until after the Mass Effect 3 singleplayer DLC release cycle is over.  If it's not what I wanted, then I'm done, and I will be sad to see my business relationship with EA and Bioware come to an end.  If it's good... well, we'll see.

[ofarrell]

I agree. I feel like the general populace of these forums are feeling better about Bioware nowadays. But we as a hole need to focus more on the positive and less on the negative, it's bad for your health.

[RocketManSR2]

Dusen wrote...

Ninja Stan wrote...

While I am happy to hear that you haven't been disappointed by BioWare games up to this point, I am a little surprised that you would think that it would never happen, or that being disappointed by an entertainment product is kind of a foreign concept to you.

There's disappointment. . . and then there are Mass Effect 3 levels of disappointment.

When I say disappointment, Stan, I kind of meant the soul crushing variety. I can usually tolerate, shall we say, lesser quality entertainment products. I enjoyed Twister and SW: Ep 1 for example. I can enjoy something for what it is, at least until the ME trilogy came along (the power of a BioWare game, eh?). I cared about Shepard and wanted him to survive into old age. The first 2 led me to believe this would happen (at least the possiblity if you made enough correct choices), then 3 gave me a virtual kick in the stomach. I should say this is the first time I've had major creative differences with a BioWare game. I've disagreed with some choices the team made in the past, but never to a "WTF" level like ME3. The company told me to imagine my own happy ending for Pete's sake. 

- I'll just have to keep an emotional distance from the games I play from now on. It was so damn easy to get wrapped up in the ME trilogy that I couldn't help it. I won't do that again.

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 03 février 2013 - 09:42 .

[Darth Krytie]

Metalunatic wrote...

It's because most of the people frustrated about the game left these forums. Gave up on ME in other words.

I've seen this sentiment posted frequently in this thread and I think that it's an incomplete picture. I stopped coming around the forums because I was tired of the negativity. So very tired. I enjoyed the games. I enjoyed them a lot. And sometimes I wanted to discuss the positives with other people. However, no matter how many well-intentioned posts went up, some even explicitly requesting the tone remain positive, was bogged down by complaining.

I don't think the game was perfect, no, but I still think there's a time and place for complaints. If the thread was made with the explicitly stated intent of being positive, people posting complaints in it is really just entitled whining. There were plenty of threads discussing the negatives already and they didn't need to encroach on that space.

I will buy the ME DLC and the next game and other BW games because they offer me things no other game does. I like being able to talk about the things I like with other people.

I just don't understand why people are still complaining about everything a year later. I've disliked plenty of games. I stop playing them and never give them another thought. It seems like an incredible waste of energy, if you ask me.

[Metalunatic]

Darth Krytie wrote...


I just don't understand why people are still complaining about everything a year later. I've disliked plenty of games. I stop playing them and never give them another thought. It seems like an incredible waste of energy, if you ask me.

It's becouse up until ME2 the games were an awesome ride that people loved and cared about and then it fell flat on it's face with the ending of the trilogy and the developers wrote it off as their artistic vision. 

[Darth Krytie]

Metalunatic wrote...

Darth Krytie wrote...


I just don't understand why people are still complaining about everything a year later. I've disliked plenty of games. I stop playing them and never give them another thought. It seems like an incredible waste of energy, if you ask me.

It's because up until ME2 the games were an awesome ride that people loved and cared about and then it fell flat on it's face with the ending of the trilogy and the developers wrote it off as their artistic vision. 

I still wouldn't waste my time beyond giving an initial review after a game's release. I just have so many other things I like to spend my time on that I don't feel the need to belabour the issues given that it's unrealistic to expect the game to be remade to my liking.

[RocketManSR2]

We're still here because we care and have some hope no matter how small an ember it may be. Plenty have left and more will follow suit after this next DLC. Will it break the company? Nope, too many casuals have been brought in by the MP. BioWare will carry on and make big $$$ which is all they and EA want. The opinions of a few disgruntled fans don't mean s***.

[Darth Krytie]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

We're still here because we care and have some hope no matter how small an ember it may be. Plenty have left and more will follow suit after this next DLC. Will it break the company? Nope, too many casuals have been brought in by the MP. BioWare will carry on and make big $$$ which is all they and EA want. The opinions of a few disgruntled fans don't mean s***.

I hadn't had my fill of hyperbole for the day. Thanks.

[Robhuzz]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

If Bioware wants to appeal to the mainstream shooter audience and start making generic shooters with meh stories and no lore to speak of then fine by me, but they could've waited until after the 3rd installment. After that, Shep's story would be over and they're free to do whatever they want. ME4 would've been a different game anyway, for better or worse.

But, this being BioWare's game, world, setting, etc., aren't they always free to do what they want?

That goes without saying doesn't it? They're still a business however and they need to sell their product to make a living. If I'm selling 50 black TVs and the day before shipping and invoicing I decide to paint them all pink, that's totally within my rights, I still own the TVs after all. That doesn't make it a smart decision.

In this case, fighting my urge and painting the next batch of TVs pink (which I will then advertise as such) is the more logical way to go. It'll also lead to less frustration among my cusomters.

Unrelated anecdote: just today I decided not to hurl my vacuum cleaner at my TV, although it would totally have been within the limits of both my abilities and my rights to do it. But I gave it some thought and in the end did not deem it wise. Don't know why I felt like sharing this...

Omg this is brilliant:D

Modifié par Robhuzz, 03 février 2013 - 05:34 .

[Cyberfrog81]

I appreciate a lot of what I got from ME3.

But I don't appreciate these "your opinion is different from mine, so I wish you'd just shut up already" threads.

Even for ME3, the "pro"/positive voices will likely outnumber the rest soon. It's BioWare's very own cycle. But when it happens, feel free to remember that your opinions haven't become more valid just because there are fewer people around who bother to contradict you. Also remember that if the shoe is ever on the other foot, you may not appreciate "shut up and thank Bioware" posts either.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

IReuven wrote...

To break Your happy sunday gathering of how-awesome-it-is here, I am gonna put some salt into it.
Most of:
People who were being rude beyond limit - got banned.
People who were cynical - got banned. The threads that were sarcastic got deleted.
People who had enough of it - left.
People who are cynical bastards and want to kill time here from time to time, like me - are still in existence.

And the rest or liked ME3 or I dunno.

And yes, this forum went all "look we are retarded". Sweet apologies are making vomit. Or it's a bit too little a little to late or it does not goddamn matter now.
I understand that some people were happy with EC but... not me - a whole game needs a FIX not extension.
I am going to avoid the topic of how can you still be a BW fanboy after all this, they had their moments that's for sure, but pure BS coming down the road in last years was too much for my liking.

Ask why I am still here? Killing time, and trying so see where it's all going, where is ME universe gonna go and in how many ways it's gonna get bad.
Excuse me but when a goddamn DLC is better then the whole bloody game... I mean c'mon!

Yes, I have other developers that I put above BW, yes. Mostly ones that do not have to deal with EA and their insulting business practices. Yes, but I would love to see something good coming down the road for ME universe. I cannot see it! I cannot, what ME4? You joking? Unless it's going to be the greatest bloody game of all the time, with good logical plot, interesting character, freedom of choice and ability to see the consequences - that making your choice matter, will have strong RPG mechanics and shooting mechanics that will work together (not against each other) to create the ultimate action-rpg experience it will not be a good game. Especially when it's going to be a sign of throwing ME mark to overuse - let's hope it won't finish like CoD.

So yeah, while I care what will happen to ME unvierse as it was my favorite sci-fi universe, that I loved and spent hours in but on the other hand I cannot stay positive about it. I would love to see it develop... but how it can with that background like it has now?

Don't even get me started on EAs bull**** that they will likely add to ME4.

So yeah. If forum is getting turned into arena of apology with no criticism involved ( as it's ****ing of course, How dare I say that ME3 is bad?! ) it's not going good. Simple.
BW is not the cesar. You do not need to tell them how awesome they are when they ( for me ) did a bad job - It happens, sure but look at recent years... Was DA2 what is was supposed to be?
Was ME3 what is was supposed to be?
Nooo?
Well? What, You gonna watch BW go down the slope... and you'll be cheering to it?
Some part of me sadistically hopes so, but still I decide which wolf I feed.

This post is win.

[shodiswe]

People are realizing that ME3 won't be fixed or changed, but instead some are hoping that the next game wont be a dissapointment.
Some people have also left.
I think ME3 was an over all good game but th endgame left for more to be desired.
DA2 was similar, thoguh I didn't get on the forum to talk about it.
Im hoping future games will be great because I want to be entertained.

[Ninja Stan]

Official DJ Harbinger wrote...

Exactly, too many people here are terrified of saying anything that isn't "i luv u bioware u make teh best games evar".

Really? I see the exact opposite. There are a lot of people who insist on saying that they are dissatisfied wiht many aspects of the game, some to the point of shouting down those who dare to share their enjoyment of the game. The reasons for this range from "I'm a paying customer so I am entitled (the literal definition, not the emotionally loaded one) to share my opinions" to "if we don't tell BioWare what we don't like, they'll continue to do the wrong thing" to "you suck because of these reasons, BioWare."

This is based solely on my observation of the forums over the past 11 years and several major product releases.

The only way BioWare/EA is going to listen to us is if we stop giving them money.

This is mostly accurate, though it does not require near constant reinforcement of negative opinion by the same dozen vocal people in scores of threads in the forum. Some fear having to go this route because they still hold out that the next BioWare project will address all their issues or restore whatever faith was lost last time. Very few passionate gamers are willing to take what they feel to be the final step before having to admit that they might not like BioWare games any longer.

This is not a bad thing, and there is nothing stopping a fan from jumping back on the BioWare bandwagon for the next game or even 10 games down the road. It just feels like an act of finality.

[Ninja Stan]

And please, let's stop it with all the swearing. Thank you.

[Iakus]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Official DJ Harbinger wrote...

Exactly, too many people here are terrified of saying anything that isn't "i luv u bioware u make teh best games evar".

Really? I see the exact opposite. There are a lot of people who insist on saying that they are dissatisfied wiht many aspects of the game, some to the point of shouting down those who dare to share their enjoyment of the game. The reasons for this range from "I'm a paying customer so I am entitled (the literal definition, not the emotionally loaded one) to share my opinions" to "if we don't tell BioWare what we don't like, they'll continue to do the wrong thing" to "you suck because of these reasons, BioWare."

This is based solely on my observation of the forums over the past 11 years and several major product releases.

The reverse is also true:  pro ending fans mock, belittle, and try to shout down people with problems with the ending as well.  with lines ranging from "get over it"  to "you just want a Disney ending" to "You just don't get it" (using the kinder phrases used) A pity they dont' get mentioned so much, as they are often every bit as rude as the most rabid antiender.

And at the same time there have been several cogent arguments over th elast several months for why the endings leave so many people unhappy.  Sadly, those threads tended to attract the sort descibed in the above paragraph and the threads either sank under all the toxcicity or got nuked for fighting, trolling, swearing, etc.  Eventually many people just gave up and left.  Though there's still a few around hoping to be heard..,

The only way BioWare/EA is going to listen to us is if we stop giving them money.

This is mostly accurate, though it does not require near constant reinforcement of negative opinion by the same dozen vocal people in scores of threads in the forum. Some fear having to go this route because they still hold out that the next BioWare project will address all their issues or restore whatever faith was lost last time. Very few passionate gamers are willing to take what they feel to be the final step before having to admit that they might not like BioWare games any longer

This is not a bad thing, and there is nothing stopping a fan from jumping back on the BioWare bandwagon for the next game or even 10 games down the road. It just feels like an act of finality.

I think it goes without saying that anyone still here does hold out hope for future Biwoare products.  I'd be most worried about people who really have left and made a clean break.  Those are the ones Bioware may have lost for good.  At least as regular customers.

[gw2005]

Every customer Bioware's lost due to the ending now exist as torrent users. Sure they might jump back ten years down the road, but that's ten years of lost revenue. Trust, and more importantly, brand integrity is a very hard thing to build and very easy to destroy.

EA used to avoid the problem by simply making everything that's hard to hate by those who actually buys them, and acquire whole companies for all the other games they want to sell to avoid the blame. But now people know what bad games comes out of good companies and the blame is shifted back somewhat.

For me, ME is still worth playing, if only for all the hours I've spent on the previous two games, if only on multiplayer. But make no mistake about our (those categorized as "left for good") collective lack of confidence in any future games under the ME banner. What's been done is done.

[Iakus]

gw2005 wrote...

Every customer Bioware's lost due to the ending now exist as torrent users. Sure they might jump back ten years down the road, but that's ten years of lost revenue. Trust, and more importantly, brand integrity is a very hard thing to build and very easy to destroy.
.

I wouldn't go that far.  But every customer Bioware lost is one they have to win back with something more than the brand name or the Biwoare logo.  When the next ME game inevtiably comes out, they'll remember ME3, remember the ending, and will be less inclined to buy.  After all, why should they get reinvested?  Not to say they definitely won't.  But they'll need convincing.  There won't be hordes of fans waving inflabable omniblades waiting this time.