220 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

It's almost been a year. From a psychology perspective it's incredibly unhealthy. If any form of entertainment causes you duress and impacts your life personally in such a capacity there's a bit of an issue.

The endings are terrible but there is SO much to see and do.

[ruggly]

Taboo-XX wrote...

It's almost been a year. From a psychology perspective it's incredibly unhealthy. If any form of entertainment causes you duress and impacts your life personally in such a capacity there's a bit of an issue.

The endings are terrible but there is SO much to see and do.

Like drinking tequila.  But I agree, it's time to enjoy the simple things in life.

[macrocarl]

Doesn't it feel better to not be so negative? Congrats on getting out of the feedback loop. It's not like each ganme has it's things you like and dislike it's just folks need to calm down and in turn the forums won't be viewed as toxic which then will signal to devs that it's time to come back more often. Congrats!

[3DandBeyond]

crimzontearz wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

People literally logged on forums to make bioware feel bad about themselves. Now devs consider forums toxic.

Damage is done.

there is faults on both sides


 
Decent developers apologized sincerely for the shortcomings of the game...but not the public faces of ME3, they refused any discussion

And to be clear on this point.  I've played other games that had problems-Fallout 3 had Bethesda's bugs and then got people mad when it actually ended and you couldn't go back and complete missions you'd left undone.  The devs in that issue even did address that as a failure.  One of the devs was interviewed in Game Informer and said that was his regret and the one thing he'd never do again.

Other games with problems or things players did not like in the game caused the devs to apologize openly to fans.

In these instances, the devs never came out and tried to characterize fans in any bad light, no matter how over the top fans may have gotten.  Sure, fans did things wrong, but the company always must maintain order and decorum.  The customer may not always be right, but the company must act like they are, and then deal with truly destructive elements in an adult way.

The way it's been handled here is as if we are all a part of some wish to do physical harm to the devs.  When someone thinks that of you, and you know it's untrue, it's darn hard to see them in a really positive light.  Even when people were expressing a lot of nice things about BW, some devs tweeted about being hated.  And they also apparently missed some of the Retake videos where people explicitly said how much they loved BW and Mass Effect and how sad they were over how BW chose to end the series.  They stressed their love of BW.

[Ryoten]

No. I'm not apologizing for something i didn't do.

[3DandBeyond]

macrocarl wrote...

Doesn't it feel better to not be so negative? Congrats on getting out of the feedback loop. It's not like each ganme has it's things you like and dislike it's just folks need to calm down and in turn the forums won't be viewed as toxic which then will signal to devs that it's time to come back more often. Congrats!

So, because other games might be bad, you have to just live with it when one is?  The problem is viewing valid complaints as toxic.  Fans can't win here.  If they don't post anything about not liking what was done then BW will keep making things as if fans' wishes don't matter.  If they do post "I didn't like it" then people criticize them for just spewing something and having no reasons why-as if they are just going along with a group and not thinking for themselves.  Bioware said that kind of statement doesn't help, nor does "I liked it".  What helps them is an explanation.  So, if people explain what was wrong to them, they are considered toxic.  This is ridiculous.  What is toxic is labelling people.

[Iakus]

3DandBeyond wrote...

The way it's been handled here is as if we are all a part of some wish to do physical harm to the devs.  When someone thinks that of you, and you know it's untrue, it's darn hard to see them in a really positive light.  Even when people were expressing a lot of nice things about BW, some devs tweeted about being hated.  And they also apparently missed some of the Retake videos where people explicitly said how much they loved BW and Mass Effect and how sad they were over how BW chose to end the series.  They stressed their love of BW.

QFT

Everyone who expresses even mild disapproval of ME3 gets lumped in with the crazies and are thus dismissed.  What kind of listening is that/

[3DandBeyond]

Taboo-XX wrote...

It's almost been a year. From a psychology perspective it's incredibly unhealthy. If any form of entertainment causes you duress and impacts your life personally in such a capacity there's a bit of an issue.

The endings are terrible but there is SO much to see and do.

That's implying that it is impacting someone's personal life.  If it is then yes, that's not healthy.  And I so much do agree with you that entertainment the causes you harm is not healthy.  But, see that's one other reason why what was done is pretty bad.  I mean, I know there are some really well received tv shows and movies out there that feature things I don't care to see.  My family tells me about them and well, they are not for me.  There are some gruesome other ones that I tend to like-Dexter for one, or some gutwrenching ones, like Homeland.  But I really tend to more often like to watch SF, fantasy shows, and comedies like Big Bang Theory.  I think it is about perspective and I would never have wanted to play this game had I known how it would end.  That goes along with the kind of entertainment I like.

[dorktainian]

ive been embracing it for a long time.

[Wayning_Star]

Never ever take yourself too seriously, especially if'n when you're saving the universe from reaperships wrought from excellent experience, garnered over billions of years..

(the BSN probably lends toward distress than the game ever did..lol)

[TheRealJayDee]

3DandBeyond wrote...

The problem is viewing valid complaints as toxic.  Fans can't win here.  If they don't post anything about not liking what was done then BW will keep making things as if fans' wishes don't matter.  If they do post "I didn't like it" then people criticize them for just spewing something and having no reasons why-as if they are just going along with a group and not thinking for themselves.  Bioware said that kind of statement doesn't help, nor does "I liked it".  What helps them is an explanation.  So, if people explain what was wrong to them, they are considered toxic.  This is ridiculous.  What is toxic is labelling people.

Completely agree. But by now I really don't see much of a point trying to discuss this, as it just doesn't go anywhere. It's really just immensly tiring and frustrating. My problems for a long time now haven't been with ME3 - I've come to except it's flaws and the fact that if the last DLC isn't some kind of miracle I won't play it again. It's Bioware's communication and PR.

[MegaSovereign]

3DandBeyond wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

Doesn't it feel better to not be so negative? Congrats on getting out of the feedback loop. It's not like each ganme has it's things you like and dislike it's just folks need to calm down and in turn the forums won't be viewed as toxic which then will signal to devs that it's time to come back more often. Congrats!

So, because other games might be bad, you have to just live with it when one is?  The problem is viewing valid complaints as toxic.  Fans can't win here.  If they don't post anything about not liking what was done then BW will keep making things as if fans' wishes don't matter.  If they do post "I didn't like it" then people criticize them for just spewing something and having no reasons why-as if they are just going along with a group and not thinking for themselves.  Bioware said that kind of statement doesn't help, nor does "I liked it".  What helps them is an explanation.  So, if people explain what was wrong to them, they are considered toxic.  This is ridiculous.  What is toxic is labelling people.

Positive feedback is just as important sometimes. Some of what people thought was wrong with ME3 was what it didn't carry over from the previous games.

On the internet, people are naturally more vocal about things they perceive as bad. Yes, it doesn't help to only post "i like it" but the same could be said about only posting "i hate it." Fans need to be more specific about what they like and what they don't like, and they have to be good at communicating that. To be blunt, some people aren't. Some take extremes and use condescending language that they probably wouldn't use in real life.

Also, while fan feedback is important, it's ultimately up to the developers to create new ideas/solutions to address that. In the gaming industry the relationship between consumer and producer isn't quite as symbiotic as say, going to a restaurant where you tell the waiter exactly what you want. Nah, gaming is more like a buffet. The producers compete with each other and put out things for display and you get to pick and choose what you like and what you don't like.

[archangel1996]

Ann then IT is not enough ME3 story and campaign related......
Tomorrow i will open a "ME3 is great" thread, it will probably live forever....

[3DandBeyond]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

The problem is viewing valid complaints as toxic.  Fans can't win here.  If they don't post anything about not liking what was done then BW will keep making things as if fans' wishes don't matter.  If they do post "I didn't like it" then people criticize them for just spewing something and having no reasons why-as if they are just going along with a group and not thinking for themselves.  Bioware said that kind of statement doesn't help, nor does "I liked it".  What helps them is an explanation.  So, if people explain what was wrong to them, they are considered toxic.  This is ridiculous.  What is toxic is labelling people.

Completely agree. But by now I really don't see much of a point trying to discuss this, as it just doesn't go anywhere. It's really just immensly tiring and frustrating. My problems for a long time now haven't been with ME3 - I've come to except it's flaws and the fact that if the last DLC isn't some kind of miracle I won't play it again. It's Bioware's communication and PR.

I agree here with this.  I'm not saying people should do or say anything or even telling BW what to do or not to do.  Opinions are there for discussion at times.  And of course by now BW has it set in stone what they want to do with all this.  I think having Montreal set working on ME4 may indicate the direction they intend to go, no matter what they say.  So, it's very likely the last DLC isn't going to do much at all.  If it does then great.  If not, well my money is better spent elsewhere.

[Obadiah]

Definitely was/is a bit of a mob mentality on the forums.

[Dr_Extrem]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Denial/Isolation, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance. In that order.

I'm still in stage 2.

a mix of 3,4 and 5 with slight tones of 2.


3: i hope, that the next dlc changes thje game to be (really) awesome.

4: i am depressed, because bioware screwed up and gave out a bandaid, that includes a "moral order".

5: i have accepted, that bioware will most likely will not fullfill 3:

2: somtimes i get angry over the points above.

[BiffBuffington]

Ithurael wrote...

Stage 5: Acceptance

???
Stage 1 Get out pitcher.
Stage 2 Mix Kool Aid
Stage 3 Dose With Arsenic
Stage 4 Drink

[Ghaleon]

StElmo wrote...

I made an apology thread to BW about how obsessively I posted mean spirited sounding things on BSN and the internet at large, because I got swept up in an ending controversy that was ultimately pointless given how I initially liked the endings of the games - yet for somesilly reason I started concentrating on little details and started turning into a stupid example of an internet denizen where negativity reigned supreme.

So right now I'm installing Mass Effect 3, EC going to buy Leviathan, Omega and going to tear through it, ready for the final DLC 

I'm going to forget about stupid Mass Effect 3 complaints that only made me add to a feedback loop. And I'm going to enjoy and escape this world

Why sit in a hovel of negativity when we can accept and let this universe continue

You can google my old posts if you wish, I started deleting some of them, but you can see how negative I was, I regret that. Because guess what? it just stopped me having fun.

There are inspirational people out there, like Gandhi and what was I doing? complaining about something because I let perception impressionabilty get to me. I liked ME3 when I first played it and I will like it again.

EA is an entertainment company, they aren't screwing our coral reefs, heck they aren't even importing minerals from the congo to make the damn machines we play these games on! They aren't sending drones into pakistan that kill children and create terrorist sympathisers, they aren't taking away our liberty.

EDIT: I would like to clarify I never made personal attacks or anything as far as I'm aware, always been against that. But I am dissapointed the tone of my posts brought me down to negative space and that sucks.

Listen  to  yourself  you're  indoctrinated!


guess  the   rEApers  got  another  one  some  of  us  still  know  the  ending  of  mass effect 3  sucked  and  will not  be  swayed  so easily.

[3DandBeyond]

MegaSovereign wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

Doesn't it feel better to not be so negative? Congrats on getting out of the feedback loop. It's not like each ganme has it's things you like and dislike it's just folks need to calm down and in turn the forums won't be viewed as toxic which then will signal to devs that it's time to come back more often. Congrats!

So, because other games might be bad, you have to just live with it when one is?  The problem is viewing valid complaints as toxic.  Fans can't win here.  If they don't post anything about not liking what was done then BW will keep making things as if fans' wishes don't matter.  If they do post "I didn't like it" then people criticize them for just spewing something and having no reasons why-as if they are just going along with a group and not thinking for themselves.  Bioware said that kind of statement doesn't help, nor does "I liked it".  What helps them is an explanation.  So, if people explain what was wrong to them, they are considered toxic.  This is ridiculous.  What is toxic is labelling people.

Positive feedback is just as important sometimes. Some of what people thought was wrong with ME3 was what it didn't carry over from the previous games.

On the internet, people are naturally more vocal about things they perceive as bad. Yes, it doesn't help to only post "i like it" but the same could be said about only posting "i hate it." Fans need to be more specific about what they like and what they don't like, and they have to be good at communicating that. To be blunt, some people aren't. Some take extremes and use condescending language that they probably wouldn't use in real life.

Also, while fan feedback is important, it's ultimately up to the developers to create new ideas/solutions to address that. In the gaming industry the relationship between consumer and producer isn't quite as symbiotic as say, going to a restaurant where you tell the waiter exactly what you want. Nah, gaming is more like a buffet. The producers compete with each other and put out things for display and you get to pick and choose what you like and what you don't like.

Oh I do agree.  Having worked in many situations, including Customer Service and retail, the mantra is well known.  A happy customer tells virtually no one and an unhappy one tells everyone.  Also, that a happy customer may tell say 1 or 2 people, but an unhappy one will tell at least 10.

Positive feedback is very important.  It's actually especially important for people to get involved in the things they buy.  It doesn't mean you have to constantly praise or complain, but do give specifics.  A verbose customer can be a company's best friend.  They pay for other companies to figure out what people will like, so it's all good if customers tell them what they did or didn't like.

Your analogy is a good one, but I see it as somewhat flawed given the way devs are marketing games now and where competition is now fiercest.  That's in pre-orders.  Devs have tended to put out more concepts or ideas in order to get you to commit to buy as much as a year in advance.  Heck, they hype them now 2 years and more before the tentative release date.  The competition is all about pre-orders and companies like Gamestop and Amazon are set to compete against each other too with exclusive pre-order content.

And then of course there's the data mining-online play is a part of a lot of games and exists in order for them to have a way to see how you play.

[3DandBeyond]

Obadiah wrote...

Definitely was/is a bit of a mob mentality on the forums.

Only if you ignore the fact that a lot of people are using their brains and have their own ideas.  This forum is made up of people that are writing things down in a language that may not be their native one or that don't know to write well.  They may see something they agree with and say so.  That's not a mob mentality-it's just not always possible for others to say exactly what they mean.  It's unfair to characterize a lot of people that just happen to agree on a topic as a mob. 

[Dubozz]

Not going to join OP ranks anytime soon.

[Taboo]

It's more of an internet issue. Faceless nature of the internet and all that.

REAL butthurt exists with some of the Miranda people though. True unadulterated butt hurt.

[MegaSovereign]

Taboo-XX wrote...

It's more of an internet issue. Faceless nature of the internet and all that.

REAL butthurt exists with some of the Miranda people though. True unadulterated butt hurt.

Before I post I subconsciously ask myself if I would be comfortable saying what I'm typing to someone.

Granted, I'm a bit of a free-spirit in the real world and some of the things I say gets some weird looks.

[AdmiralCheez]

Taboo-XX wrote...

It's almost been a year. From a psychology perspective it's incredibly unhealthy. If any form of entertainment causes you duress and impacts your life personally in such a capacity there's a bit of an issue.

The endings are terrible but there is SO much to see and do.

Maybe you can help me, then, BECAUSE I'M STILL MAD ABOUT IT.

*image removed per Site Rule #6*

YOU ARE TEARING ME APART, BIOWARE!

Still tho I'm no longer hopelessly depressed and I'm working more on my own original stuff.  Actual adulthood may be possible, after all.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 01 février 2013 - 12:25 .