23 réponses à ce sujet

[tetsutsuru]

I don't mind that some units have sync-kill abilities.  As far as I'm concerned, that just adds flavor to the game.  However, when a player fires a Medi-Gel only to be sync-killed even BEFORE control has been released to the player, is an incredibly cheap and cheezy occurrence.

It's been this way since Demo, but then again, so are a number of other issues.  Is this something that should be on the list of "issues" to be addressed, or it's really the way it's supposed to be?  Maybe implement a Medi-Gel refund  or something?

[R0binME]

dont medi-gel when a banshee is standing on you?

[DeadeyeCYclops]

I havent had it happen more than once, after the first time it happened i learned not to medigel when a sync killer is teabagging my corpse

[tetsutsuru]

R0binME wrote...

dont medi-gel when a banshee is standing on you?

That example is easier to avoid with a Phantom, however the Banshee doesn't have to be.  While you're in "getting-back-up" animation, she BCs though a wall and gives you a hand.

[Computron2000]

If you really must medigel with that phantom, banshee, whatever camping your corpse (such as last man/soloing), wait until you're almost out of time (helps with banshee auras expiring) then spam dodge immediately after medigelling.

Not full proof as if the sync killer is primed and the targetting cycle kicks in before your dodge takes places, you still get synced. But it works relatively well as is a last throw of the dice anyway

[N7Kopper]

Medigel is the only thing in that equation is cheap. It's inherently a cheap mechanic, even if it adds to the game and in no way should be removed or even nerfed.
If you're giving an enemy cheap (even if it's AI controlled) expect to get cheap back.

[SofaJockey]

It's harder to avoid when a teammate revives you as a Banshee is standing next to you.

Bleeding ==> Reviving ==> Magnet hands ==> Dead.

[andresft]

I don't see what's so cheap about Medi-Gel. It's part of the game's lore, so it's not a cheap mechanic. And, without it, the game would be unreasonably hard (considering difficulty levels and rewards), so it doesn't negatively affect gameplay.

Frankly, if you have a Medi-Gel, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to use it. It's not fair that you've been judicious in your gel use, only to find yourself surrounded by Praetorians the ONE time you needed to use it, on Wave 9 after a team wipe and you were last man standing. If I was good enough to have all my missiles still on me, all my gels still on me, I don't think it's too much to ask that the game give me a short window of time to revive myself without being immediately and hopelessly killed. But that's just me. Just understand that asking for these concessions doesn't make one a noob; it makes one a person who just wants to enjoy the game to the maximum without having unreasonable demands.

[Simba501]

andresft wrote...

I don't see what's so cheap about Medi-Gel. It's part of the game's lore, so it's not a cheap mechanic. And, without it, the game would be unreasonably hard (considering difficulty levels and rewards), so it doesn't negatively affect gameplay.

Frankly, if you have a Medi-Gel, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to use it. It's not fair that you've been judicious in your gel use, only to find yourself surrounded by Praetorians the ONE time you needed to use it, on Wave 9 after a team wipe and you were last man standing. If I was good enough to have all my missiles still on me, all my gels still on me, I don't think it's too much to ask that the game give me a short window of time to revive myself without being immediately and hopelessly killed. But that's just me. Just understand that asking for these concessions doesn't make one a noob; it makes one a person who just wants to enjoy the game to the maximum without having unreasonable demands.

Agreed!

[LightRobot]

Simba501 wrote...

andresft wrote...

I don't see what's so cheap about Medi-Gel. It's part of the game's lore, so it's not a cheap mechanic. And, without it, the game would be unreasonably hard (considering difficulty levels and rewards), so it doesn't negatively affect gameplay.

Frankly, if you have a Medi-Gel, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to use it. It's not fair that you've been judicious in your gel use, only to find yourself surrounded by Praetorians the ONE time you needed to use it, on Wave 9 after a team wipe and you were last man standing. If I was good enough to have all my missiles still on me, all my gels still on me, I don't think it's too much to ask that the game give me a short window of time to revive myself without being immediately and hopelessly killed. But that's just me. Just understand that asking for these concessions doesn't make one a noob; it makes one a person who just wants to enjoy the game to the maximum without having unreasonable demands.

Agreed!

Agreed, even when you are not the last man standing, there's always that time when no matter how long you wait there are no opportunity for you to revive yourself without being exposed to a very high probability of being sync-killed by the huge mass of brutes, phantoms, banshees and whatever bastards around you.
It could work like the survial ops where any damage you take is cancelled for a very quick moment after you use it it's rellay not that big a deal.

[Papa5murf]

Totally agree on this. I play mostly BatGuard nowadays, and he has no dodge. This means that when i go down, and there's a sync killer hovering over me, i'm basically dead, medigel or no
And it's fine ppl saying wait until the sync killer has moved off, but if i had a premium pack for every time a goddam phantom just camped over my corpse, i'd have a maxed manifest by now...

[Dragonhalls]

problem is phantom and banshee just stay on top of u while u bleeding

[najzere]

Yeah I hate that, we need a couple seconds of sync-kill and stagger immunity upon reviving.`

[Cohen le Barbare]

tetsutsuru wrote...

R0binME wrote...

dont medi-gel when a banshee is standing on you?

That example is easier to avoid with a Phantom, however the Banshee doesn't have to be.  While you're in "getting-back-up" animation, she BCs though a wall and gives you a hand.

What are you complaining about? You were down, she saw you needed help getting up, charged at you and gave you a hand. It's a pity she can't control her strength though

Modifié par Cohen le Barbare, 31 janvier 2013 - 04:54 .

[NuclearTech76]

You can immediately pop an OPs pack which will save you from time to time. Smart thing is to revive after the sync kill enemy goes but on higher levels other enemies will stomp you almost immediately or you gel into an immediate Marauder elbow followed by the Phaeston 1500.

[LorelynF]

Yeah I hate that, we need a couple seconds of sync-kill and stagger immunity upon reviving.`

+1

Modifié par LorelynF, 31 janvier 2013 - 05:06 .

[SofaJockey]

Then there is one my dynamic I'd like to understand. Once on the floor, will enemies continue to stand over your bleeding corpse or will they move away?

Do they move away because they are attracted to other enemies? Does that mean that if the other teammates have bled out that they do not move, as there are no remaining players to attract their interest?

If player skill of waiting a few moments to allow enemies to move away is effective, then a 'mystic' bubble of invulnerability upon revival is unnecessary and survival would be due to skill and tactics not a 'mechanic' as is proposed.

EDIT: The threatening stomp may be a hole in the above theory.... (!)

Modifié par adrest4, 31 janvier 2013 - 05:15 .

[LightRobot]

adrest4 wrote...

Then there is one my dynamic I'd like to understand. Once on the floor, will enemies continue to stand over your bleeding corpse or will they move away?

Do they move away because they are attracted to other enemies? Does that mean that if the other teammates have bled out that they do not move, as there are no remaining players to attract their interest?

If player skill of waiting a few moments to allow enemies to move away is effective, then a 'mystic' bubble of invulnerability upon revival is unnecessary and survival would be due to skill and tactics not a 'mechanic' as is proposed.

As said before, if you're last man standing, ennemies won't move away, if you're playing plat and sometimes even gold, it happens that even if you wait there will always be a sync-killer near you no matter how long you wait , it could be because they're stuck, because teammates trying to revive you or are standing near, or simply because there are so many of them.
Another solution would be to hold the ability for ennemies  to sync-kill for a few secs after you've revived yourself

Modifié par LightRobot, 31 janvier 2013 - 05:19 .

[Xeraphas]

One problem is, if there are enemies near you they can stomp on you and ensure you can not revive. So, because of the stomp threat, you may have to use a medigel near enemies when you normally would not. I for one have touched on this issue about the stand animation and getting attacked by the enemy before you can move previously in other posts. It has been claimed players may have some short term immunity when using medigel, or should get it if not, either way, you should be allowed to stand up before an enemy has a chance on you. How fair is it when the enemy can move and you can not? You do not have any control while the stand up animation is running, so you are penalized time for it to complete and the enemy gets a free time bonus to get you. They already have a number of cheats. Sure players have some benefits over enemies as well, but the players are also supposed to be among the best soldiers in the galaxy while, not every enemy unit would technically qualify in that category.

The enemy has more units than you do. If they all die they do not lose the game, not even the round/wave, it just ends. They typically get about 150 units minimum per game to throw at you. All of them with a few exceptions will have more health and shields than you, the player, does. They may not be able to be revived (well not entirely accurate, some units can heal other units, example, engineers repairing Atlases), but they will usually recover more health and all their shields if they are not downed when it is low.

You can list all the pros and cons of enemies and players and probably come out more or less equal, BUT the enemy has more options and tendencies to break game rules that are supposed to apply to you and them. The enemies have a time dilation or reaction time handicap, where they can actually act upon some trigger or event after you do, but they still get the benefit because you are penalized time for every close call event in the game or if the call is a draw, the enemy always gets it in their favor.

[Pathetisad]

Last one alive, you finally go down and have a phantom (or three) hovering over you.
You medigel and *BAM instakill

Now THAT'S cheap

[Zkyire]

tetsutsuru wrote...

I don't mind that some units have sync-kill abilities.  As far as I'm concerned, that just adds flavor to the game.  However, when a player fires a Medi-Gel only to be sync-killed even BEFORE control has been released to the player, is an incredibly cheap and cheezy occurrence.

It's been this way since Demo, but then again, so are a number of other issues.  Is this something that should be on the list of "issues" to be addressed, or it's really the way it's supposed to be?  Maybe implement a Medi-Gel refund  or something?

I agree.

Being fisted to death by a Banshee is bad enough, but to do it after you've just applied gel? She's hovering over you, ready to penetrate, and shoves it right back in.

Modifié par Zkyire, 31 janvier 2013 - 05:31 .

[LightRobot]

Xeraphas wrote...

One problem is, if there are enemies near you they can stomp on you and ensure you can not revive. So, because of the stomp threat, you may have to use a medigel near enemies when you normally would not. I for one have touched on this issue about the stand animation and getting attacked by the enemy before you can move previously in other posts. It has been claimed players may have some short term immunity when using medigel, or should get it if not, either way, you should be allowed to stand up before an enemy has a chance on you. How fair is it when the enemy can move and you can not? You do not have any control while the stand up animation is running, so you are penalized time for it to complete and the enemy gets a free time bonus to get you. They already have a number of cheats. Sure players have some benefits over enemies as well, but the players are also supposed to be among the best soldiers in the galaxy while, not every enemy unit would technically qualify in that category.

The enemy has more units than you do. If they all die they do not lose the game, not even the round/wave, it just ends. They typically get about 150 units minimum per game to throw at you. All of them with a few exceptions will have more health and shields than you, the player, does. They may not be able to be revived (well not entirely accurate, some units can heal other units, example, engineers repairing Atlases), but they will usually recover more health and all their shields if they are not downed when it is low.

You can list all the pros and cons of enemies and players and probably come out more or less equal, BUT the enemy has more options and tendencies to break game rules that are supposed to apply to you and them. The enemies have a time dilation or reaction time handicap, where they can actually act upon some trigger or event after you do, but they still get the benefit because you are penalized time for every close call event in the game or if the call is a draw, the enemy always gets it in their favor.

Well I'm not sure about equality, If one player is able to anihilate loads and loads of ennemies, bosses and such while doing a solo plat for instance , you can't really talk about quality and I'm not sure it's the point ( and thank god ennemeis don't have the same kind of missiles we have !)
I'd just like if skills had more to do with it than chance, fact is that sometimes no matter how much skill, patience, intelligence you show in your timing with your gel, you'll get sync killed before you could even move, that feels kinda wrong

[starwolf1001]

andresft wrote...

I don't see what's so cheap about Medi-Gel. It's part of the game's lore, so it's not a cheap mechanic. And, without it, the game would be unreasonably hard (considering difficulty levels and rewards), so it doesn't negatively affect gameplay.

Frankly, if you have a Medi-Gel, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to use it. It's not fair that you've been judicious in your gel use, only to find yourself surrounded by Praetorians the ONE time you needed to use it, on Wave 9 after a team wipe and you were last man standing. If I was good enough to have all my missiles still on me, all my gels still on me, I don't think it's too much to ask that the game give me a short window of time to revive myself without being immediately and hopelessly killed. But that's just me. Just understand that asking for these concessions doesn't make one a noob; it makes one a person who just wants to enjoy the game to the maximum without having unreasonable demands.

AMEN

[robarcool]

N7Kopper wrote...

Medigel is the only thing in that equation is cheap. It's inherently a cheap mechanic, even if it adds to the game and in no way should be removed or even nerfed.
If you're giving an enemy cheap (even if it's AI controlled) expect to get cheap back.

What are you smoking?