199 réponses à ce sujet

[capn233]

But what if you want to punch things all the time?

[Miniditka77]

MetalDeggial wrote...

No, I'm not joking. Bonus Power on the Drellguard, the Protector, the Kroguard and the Asari Vanguard is one of the most ridiculous things ever. I'm still in awe that no-one uses this. I started using bonus power when Jack Crapper told me to use it with the Volus Protector, and I was speechless at how good it was. 

I do use Bonus Power on the Drellguard, and only the Drellguard.  Having 100% shield recharge for him only adds what, an extra 200 shields or so?  I'd rather be able to charge more often.  Although it might work OK on the Protector too, I just don't use Voluses.

[Feneckus]

BlackDahlia424 wrote...

But from a damage standpoint, the DV wins handily.

Very few kits can even come close to the DV damage-wise, so what's your point ?

MetalDeggial wrote...


It's called bonus power (6A evo) bro. Use it. I use it and it rocks. All those "art of Drellguard" videos are jokes since nobody is using bonus power with him. Also, Biotic Charge + melee

HolyAvenger wrote...

I'm gonna use the Raider. May as well get the best out of those Turian stability passives.

The Raider is nice, but you can't take advantage of the reload trick like you can with a Claymore. Also, it has ****ty range. You are beyond useless for Hacks/Escorts.

Jack Crapper wrote...

Nice vid. It is also notable that you can "cover" the Claymore's reload animation with the jetpack dodge of the Turian. As far as I know, it is the only dodge which allows this to occur.

Yeah, forgot to mention it. Claymore + Havoc Strike + Claymore + dodge + Claymore is great, no idea why I didn't include that combo in the video 

[BlackDahlia424]

So I just tried this build - I didn't like it. I tried to play it like I do the Drell Vanguard, and it just wasn't as good. It felt so much stiffer and off host stim packs sometimes don't work.

[Deerber]

Jack Crapper wrote...

Nice vid. It is also notable that you can "cover" the Claymore's reload animation with the jetpack dodge of the Turian. As far as I know, it is the only dodge which allows this to occur.

I am not sure how surefire the following may be, but when I dodge backwards while in the Havoc Strike animation (just before it ends), I have not yet been sync killed. Unfortunatley, this would cancel the reload of the Claymore during the Havoc Strike, but better to be alive and empty than dead and loaded.

Fortack wrote...

You mean that if you dodge almost immediately after taking a shot (like power usage as mentioned in the OP) the Claymore is reloaded during the dodge animation?

VirtualAlex wrote...

Please explain the reload tricks more. You fire the claymore, and then havoc strike and it auto reloads? Do you actually have to click reload first? When are you reloading?

Ok, I believe I can explain this a bit more in detail. Surely Feneckus is more skilled than I am, but I've been experimenting a bit with this lately and I know something about it.

If you fire any gun up until the clip is empty, what happens automatically is that you wait for the refire time (1/RoF) and then start the reload animation. The point is, if you manage to start an animation - any animation, as far as I can tell - before the reload animation begins, and that animation is still going when the reload one starts, then the reload one will be "hidden" in the other animation.

Mind you, it will still take the normal time to reload the gun. That means that if the animation you made your character perform is shorter than the reload one, you'll have to wait additional time after it ends for the reload to actually happen.

Couple that with the fact that you need to be mid-animation when the reload one kicks in and not when you run out of ammo in the clip, and you'll understand why long animations are the ones most suited to this kind of animation hiding.

That is the reason why it's a bit harder to do this with short animations such as those from cryo blast, incinerate, stim packs, etc. They do not last enough. So, if you start them as soon as the clip is empty, they won't last more than the refire time (especially on the claymore) and you won't hide the reload. You need to wait a fraction of a second and then start the other animation, so that it can overlap with the reload one. You should also notice that even if you do this, you'll still have to wait quite a bit of time after the animation is over for the reload to happen.

The best animations to hide the reload in are therefore the long ones: havoc strike works perfectly, charge works quite good as well. Also grenades, nova, slash, tac scan... Everything which has a long animation. And yes, dodges do the trick as well. It's most noticeable on the new turians, because they have the longest dodge. But it can definitely be done with the teleport dodges as well, as they are quite long too. I did that a lot when I used to play the claymore fury. Other dodges can be used as well, but it's trickier and you should do that in a similar fashion to cryo blast and the other fast powers.

Last but not the least, I believe that this way of hiding the reload animation into another one automatically makes the reload animation be canceled out. That is, you're automatically reload-canceling. I may be wrong on this, so I'd like to hear everyone's impressions, but I feel this is what is happening, cause the reload times are quite short.

So, to answer shortly those questions:

- No, you don't need to press the reload button, you just need to start an animation as soon as your clip is gone (at least if the animation is long enough).

- Yes, it's definitely possible to fire the claymore, instantly dodge as a Havoc, and have the Claymore reloaded when you land, or almost 


About the havoc strike + dodging back Crapper pointed out... I'm assuming HS works exactly as charge does, in that regard. If that's the case, doing that will prevent any sync kill from happening, at least on host. Even if you HS a teleporting banshee. The only exception is the Praetorian, cause its stupid melee staggers and it's fast as hell. You still have good chances of surviving a HS + dodge back on a walking, no-mid-animation Praetorian, but it's definitely not 100% as with the other enemies. Well, so long as you don't HS an enemy that just meleed of course. You shouldn't do that 


Well, hope I helped with this wall of text 



Edit: I forgot to add:

The Claymore obviously isn't the only weapon on which this can happen. For sure it can happen on  the Javelin and the Wraith as well, but I think any weapon can do that. It is, though, far easier to do the trick on a slow firing weapon, simply because of what I explained earlier - the window of time to start another animation with fast firing weapons is very small.

Modifié par Deerber, 31 janvier 2013 - 08:34 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Dunvi wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

spudspot wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

What is stupid about it?

The 'guilty until proven innocent' part maybe? 

On that note, are you even on PC so you can actually tell how pervasive cheating is and how many people use it? Or am I talking to a console player all the time who just sees what he wants to believe whenever he watches a PC vid?

Are you playing with unmodified game files?

Dude, seriously, what's your problem?

I committed the horrible crime of discussing PC players' file editing, I suppose.  It's apparently a really bad thing to do, especially when the players in question admit to editing their own game files.  I'm just saying, once you admit to modifying your files, I can't take your gameplay videos seriously, because who knows what you changed?  I'm supposed to take someone's word that they ONLY made legal edits?  Get out of here.  If they ran their files through a hash check, it would fail, and that's all I need to know.  You are playing an edited version of the game, which is different from the unedited game I play. 

robarcool wrote...

najzere wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn's work has been less enjoyable since Annomander figured out what he's up to, but I still do get a chuckle.

And
thanks OP, this is some cool stuff. I actually haven't played the Havoc
yet or specced him out since I didn't know what I wanted to do with
him, so this gives me something to try out.

?? You mean the post where he gets called a moron?[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

By Annomander, who is a known file hacker.  The same Annomader who has posted pictures of himself using an infinite ammo mod.  But I'm the moron, apparently.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 31 janvier 2013 - 08:33 .

[Deerber]

On a far less serious note:

robarcool wrote...

najzere wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn's work has been less enjoyable since Annomander figured out what he's up to, but I still do get a chuckle.

And thanks OP, this is some cool stuff. I actually haven't played the Havoc yet or specced him out since I didn't know what I wanted to do with him, so this gives me something to try out.

?? You mean the post where he gets called a moron?

Hahahaha this made my day!  Thanks man!

But seriously, what do you mean by "Annomander figured out what he's up to"?

lightswitch wrote...

Let's talk about Havoc Strike! Feneckus, doesn't Havoc Strike do double damage against frozen and chilled targets? Have you experimented with Cryo ammo at all?

Uh? I didn't know of this. Where did you find out?

spudspot wrote...

On that note, are you even on PC so you can actually tell how pervasive cheating is and how many people use it? Or am I talking to a console player all the time who just sees what he wants to believe whenever he watches a PC vid?

Haha your guess! 

HolyAvenger wrote...

Why are you guys feeding the troll? Ignore him.

It's Troll the Troll, the new official bsn sport! You want in? It's fun! :happy:

Modifié par Deerber, 31 janvier 2013 - 08:35 .

[spudspot]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I committed the horrible crime of discussing PC players' file editing, I suppose.

You didn't discuss anything, you rather called every PC player a cheater and then had the gall to tell us that  we'd have to earn your seal of approval. 

That's pathetic. 

Deerber wrote...

It's Troll the Troll, the new official bsn sport! You want in? It's fun! [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/happy.png[/smilie]

Hey Deerber, I got a totally cool new hack that makes brutes sing the russian national anthem everytime they punch somebody. (And of course it sets their health to 0.5, but I don't need to explain that to you, eh?)

So just shoot me an invite if you want to try it. My origin id is Nudis7. 

Modifié par spudspot, 31 janvier 2013 - 08:43 .

[Feneckus]

Nicla Karsavina wrote...

He's basically a tech vanguard with cryo blast; it was a weak design decision not to give him a decent power like incinerate or snap freeze.

Incinerate ? It's only useful for fire explosions, and Havoc Strike can do that. And they do similar damage.

Snap freeze ? Takes a bit too long to cast I think, I like the fast paced style he has.

Cryo Blast isn't that great but it can be useful. The Havoc doesn't really need a great third power anyway, Havoc Strike and Stim Packs are already enough.

BlackDahlia424 wrote...

So I just tried this build - I didn't like it. I tried to play it like I do the Drell Vanguard, and it just wasn't as good. It felt so much stiffer and off host stim packs sometimes don't work.

1. Why do you insist on comparing him with the Drell Vanguard ? Can't he just be the Havoc ?
2. Biotic charge and cluster grenades work 100% of the time off host ? Who's hosting your games ? 

[Fortack]

Deerber wrote...

That is the reason why it's a bit harder to do this with short animations such as those from cryo blast, incinerate, stim packs, etc. They do not last enough. So, if you start them as soon as the clip is empty, they won't last more than the refire time (especially on the claymore) and you won't hide the reload.

So the horribly long dodge animations are good for something after all

It's still a bit weird though. I never had problems RC'ing using powers regardless which one (including nades) but I've never noticed the Claymore reloading when I had to use a fast dodge to stay alive even when the animation was almost done. Dodges only worked after the "click", never before.

[Nicla Karsavina]

Feneckus wrote...

Jack Crapper wrote...

Nice vid. It is also notable that you can "cover" the Claymore's reload animation with the jetpack dodge of the Turian. As far as I know, it is the only dodge which allows this to occur.

Yeah, forgot to mention it. Claymore + Havoc Strike + Claymore + dodge + Claymore is great, no idea why I didn't include that combo in the video 

What importance does it have? Why bothering dodging who knows where, if you can just use the medigel button?

HolyAvenger wrote...
I actually think the fact he can refill his shields without charging makes him much more useful in a lot of situations. No need to decide between charging a banshee or dying...

I agree with you here, stimpacks are his best power. On the contrary, you could trade havoc strike or cryo blast with full fitness without losing much.

[Happy Shepard]

I want to try this. But i don't think i can. The melee biuld is just too much fun on this guy.

Modifié par Happy Shepard, 31 janvier 2013 - 08:46 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

spudspot wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I committed the horrible crime of discussing PC players' file editing, I suppose.

You didn't discuss anything, you rather called every PC player a cheater and then had the gall to tell us that  we'd have to earn your seal of approval. 

That's pathetic. 

Please learn to read, buddy.  I didn't call EVERY PC player a cheater.  I said most were.  And didn't you say you have nothing to prove to anyone? So why would it bother you if I question the legitimacy of PC videos, if you're so confident that PC players aren't editing files and cheating?

Deerber wrote...

But seriously, what do you mean by "Annomander figured out what he's up to"?

I'm not sure what I'm up to.  Annomander edits his game files.  That's a fact.  You probably do too.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 31 janvier 2013 - 08:51 .

[HolyAvenger]

Yeah, I've been running a no-HS build with a Crusader and been quite happy with it, might as well trying something very different...

[najzere]

Deerber wrote...
On a far less serious note:

robarcool wrote...

najzere wrote...
CmnDwnWrkn's work has been less enjoyable since Annomander figured out what he's up to, but I still do get a chuckle.

And thanks OP, this is some cool stuff. I actually haven't played the Havoc yet or specced him out since I didn't know what I wanted to do with him, so this gives me something to try out.

?? You mean the post where he gets called a moron?

Hahahaha this made my day!  Thanks man!

But seriously, what do you mean by "Annomander figured out what he's up to"?

I just mean it was a lot more entertaining when Annomander was getting super mad, like in a thread from yesterday.

[Deerber]

Fortack wrote...

Deerber wrote...

That is the reason why it's a bit harder to do this with short animations such as those from cryo blast, incinerate, stim packs, etc. They do not last enough. So, if you start them as soon as the clip is empty, they won't last more than the refire time (especially on the claymore) and you won't hide the reload.

So the horribly long dodge animations are good for something after all

It's still a bit weird though. I never had problems RC'ing using powers regardless which one (including nades) but I've never noticed the Claymore reloading when I had to use a fast dodge to stay alive even when the animation was almost done. Dodges only worked after the "click", never before.

Well, you need to start the dodge before the reload animation starts, of course. If you do it after, the reload gets canceled. But there is a window of time (fairly large on the claymore) between you running out of ammo and you starting the reload animation. That window of time is when you want to start the dodge.

I've never had it happen with a dodge which is not a turian jetpack or a teleport one, but I believe the reason I gave is the explanation. Never really tried to, moreover.

But you can do that with a teleport dodge as well, for sure. Try running up an enemy as a fury, claymore shot + throw + instantly dodge. The reload will be hidden 

[spudspot]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Please learn to read, buddy.  I didn't call EVERY PC player a cheater.  I said most were.  And didn't you say you have nothing to prove to anyone? So why would it bother you if I question the legitimacy of PC videos, if you're so confident that PC players aren't editing files and cheating?

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

If you're a PC player I just assume you're playing with edited files unless you prove otherwise.  That's how pervasive cheating on PC is.

There, you did it.

PC players who didn't prove to you that they didn't edit their files will be regarded as playing with edited files. 

Since I assume that nobody actually tried to prove anything to you, my guess is you assume that all of us edit our files.

So please, cut down on the 'l2r' stuff. You're already burning yourself.

Modifié par spudspot, 31 janvier 2013 - 08:52 .

[Deerber]

Nicla Karsavina wrote...

What importance does it have? Why bothering dodging who knows where, if you can just use the medigel button?

It's different. What happens when you hide a reload is that you do something else while the gun gets reloaded: you don't waste time at all. Not even a tiny bit.

When you medigel-cancel the reload, instead, you still lose time. Not as much as a whole reload, but you lost it.

They're different. Reload-cancel is the best way to do it on kits that have only one mean of attack. Hiding reloads is even more efficient on kits with many means of attack, instead.

najzere wrote...

I just mean it was a lot more entertaining when Annomander was getting super mad, like in a thread from yesterday.

Haha ok, I see 

[Feneckus]

Deerber wrote...

Last but not the least, I believe that this way of hiding the reload animation into another one automatically makes the reload animation be canceled out. That is, you're automatically reload-canceling. I may be wrong on this, so I'd like to hear everyone's impressions, but I feel this is what is happening, cause the reload times are quite short.

No, you definitely have to reload cancel if you want to fire early.

The Claymore obviously isn't the only weapon on which this can happen. For sure it can happen on  the Javelin and the Wraith as well, but I think any weapon can do that. 

I tried with the Raider, and I couldn't hide the reload with Havoc Strike. It worked with stim packs and cryo blast though.

Nicla Karsavina wrote...

What importance does it have? Why bothering dodging who knows where, if you can just use the medigel button?

Because sometimes you have to dodge because you havoc striked into a stupid situation. The fact that your Claymore will reload itself during the dodge is a pretty nice bonus.

Besides, you might as well dodge and get some breathing room rather than just staying there waiting for your Claymore to reload.

I agree with you here, stimpacks are his best power. On the contrary, you could trade havoc strike or cryo blast with full fitness without losing much.

Obviously my video failed 

Modifié par Feneckus, 31 janvier 2013 - 08:59 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

spudspot wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Please learn to read, buddy.  I didn't call EVERY PC player a cheater.  I said most were.  And didn't you say you have nothing to prove to anyone? So why would it bother you if I question the legitimacy of PC videos, if you're so confident that PC players aren't editing files and cheating?

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

If you're a PC player I just assume you're playing with edited files unless you prove otherwise.  That's how pervasive cheating on PC is.

There, you did it.

Every PC player who didn't prove to you he/she didn't edit his files will be regarded as playing with edited files. 

Since I assume that nobody actually tried to prove anything to you, my guess is you assume that all of us edit our files.

So please, cut down on the 'l2r' stuff. You're already burning yourself.

Yes, I'm personally going to assume that as a PC player you're playing with edited files.  That's different from outright calling every PC player a cheater.  If you don't understand the difference, that's your problem.  I'm not your teacher.

[spudspot]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Yes, I'm personally going to assume that as a PC player you're playing with edited files.  That's different from outright calling every PC player a cheater.  If you don't understand the difference, that's your problem.  I'm not your teacher.

Ah, I see, telling everybody about your assumptions is totally different from implying everybody actually hacked. 

Well, even if you're not my teacher, I think I've learned something right there.

[capn233]

Feneckus wrote...

I tried with the Raider, and I couldn't hide the reload with Havoc Strike. It worked with stim packs and cryo blast though.

As pointed out earlier, it has to do with the reload cycle period compared to the animation length.  Claymore ROF 64, reload time 2.57s (0.9375+2.57=3.5) ... Raider ROF 200 and reload time 2.27 (0.3+2.27=2.57)... that is bound to be where the hangup is.

Javelin and Widow are somewhat close to with ROF of 70 and reload times of 2.97s (0.857+2.97=3.8s)... maybe give them a try

[capn233]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Yes, I'm personally going to assume that as a PC player you're playing with edited files.  That's different from outright calling every PC player a cheater.  If you don't understand the difference, that's your problem.  I'm not your teacher.

Alright, point taken.  Thanks for sharing your view on the game.  No need to spam the same thing over and over.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

spudspot wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Yes, I'm personally going to assume that as a PC player you're playing with edited files.  That's different from outright calling every PC player a cheater.  If you don't understand the difference, that's your problem.  I'm not your teacher.

Ah, I see, telling everybody about your assumptions is totally different from implying everybody actually hacked. 

Well, even if you're not my teacher, I think I've learned something right there.

Here, let me spell it out for you since you're a little slow.  Assuming that a PC player is playing with modded files is my personal assumption from what I've observed.  I acknowledge I'll be wrong a small percentage of the time.  But I'll be right most of the time.  Not all PC players cheat, but most do.  If I assume that a PC player is not playing with modded files, I'll be wrong most of the time.

capn233 wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Yes,
I'm personally going to assume that as a PC player you're playing with
edited files.  That's different from outright calling every PC player a
cheater.  If you don't understand the difference, that's your problem. 
I'm not your teacher.

Alright, point taken.  Thanks for sharing your view on the game.  No need to spam the same thing over and over.

I'm just trying to make sure some of the slower members on the forum understand what I'm getting at.  I apologize if it comes across as spamming to you.  You likely don't have reading comprehension problems.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 31 janvier 2013 - 09:14 .

[spudspot]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Here, let me spell it out for you since you're a little slow.  Assuming that a PC player is playing with modded files is my personal assumption from what I've observed.  I acknowledge I'll be wrong a small percentage of the time.  But I'll be right most of the time.  Not all PC players cheat, but most do.  If I assume that a PC player is not playing with modded files, I'll be wrong most of the time.

I see, reading between the lines, understanding what a person constantly implies by spamming generalizations left and right makes you 'slow' these days. 

No wonder all Americans are dumb. Oh wait, only most are until they prove me wrong. Though of course I'll only be wrong a small percentage of the time.