440 réponses à ce sujet

[MattFini]

Yate wrote...

you'll notice the people who dislike it only dislike it because WAAAH PLOT ARMOUR

in other words they're mad that they lost

in other words they're mad that the game actually had a plot and not a series of SHAPURD IS AWESOME moments

What an absurd generalization. 

Anyway,

Priority: Thessia is, in my mind, the most atmospheric mission of the game. Landing in the middle of a warzone and seeing the planet all but lost was pretty terrific. The design of Thessia was beautiful and some of those asari sacrifices were quite stirring, really hammering home that we truly were witnessing the fall of this planet.

It also works quite well for Liara, and the disillusionment she gains towards the end of the mission is both fascinating and heartbreaking (for her). It made for some fantastic drama and it's actually pretty uncomfortable if you bring Javik along as the second squaddie.

The Kai Leng fight is kinda lame but I actually like this moment. It's pretty much the lowest point for Shepard and co. in the game and, the first time I played it, I remember how fired up I was to kick Leng's ass down the line. Leng's lameness aside, I think this does exactly what it's supposed to do. The final shots of Shepard overlooking the obliterated Thessia are amazing, too.

I feel like if Kai Leng had been a better villain, this might not have bothered some folks as much.

My problem with Thessia is that it's too short. It's at this point in ME3 where it begins to feel rushed. I wish we'd got to see more of Thessia like we did Rannoch and Tuchanka but that's honestly the only qualm I have with this mission.

Actually, it's one of my favorites in the game.

Modifié par MattFini, 31 janvier 2013 - 10:02 .

[3DandBeyond]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Yate wrote...

because the average gamer needs a big YOU WIN screen after every mission

people got mad that they couldn't win a fight that was impossible to win

and then they got mad that a villain didn't play fair

same with Catalyst

these people don't like any villain that's not Lex Luthor

No, the fight sucked because it was poorly designed. You get behind cover and continously shoot the guy while he dances around in one spot like a fairy. Even in my Insanity playthrough i don't think the guy ever made an attempt to even try to kill me or my squadmates. Hell i don't ever recall if he made a single attack against us. He's just a reskinned phantom, and the fight itself was lame.

This.  I love it so much when people belittle others and say what they wanted was juvenile when the thing they don't like is what is juvenile.  Kai Leng is just one of some truly poor characters in the game.  I don't mind not winning against him, but make it good and make it seem logical that I wouldn't.  He just dances around (good point) and then heckles.  It's like they took it straight out of the old Adam West Batman tv show.  I was waiting for the KAPOW and CABOOM to pop up on the screen.  Heck, Batman was done better. 

And as far as the kid-no I don't care that he doesn't play fair.  I care that he spews a lot of garbage non-logic and Shepard just is supposed to go along with that crap.  I care that he is some poor substitute for even a confronation with Harbinger-even if it was only a war of words.  I'd settle for a debate rather than the kid saying "this is my logic" and Shepard so to speak, saying, "sounds good to me, what do I do?"

[Yate]

I love how people say 'plot armour' like it's a bad thing

like they're just realizing that the games have a plot

 and certain people need to make that plot happen

Asch Lavigne wrote...

Yate wrote...

Alex_Dur4and wrote...

Kai Leng

I like you.

I mean this is basically what everyone else is saying, only they're being dumb about it.

the bottom line is that people didn't like Leng

to which I say that you're not supposed to like him

he has no redeemable qualities

he's a total dick

Its not that he wins. Its how he wins that people hate.

I like Cerberus taking the VI. Great idea.. Heck, aside from Sanctuary its the only other thing they do that makes any sense. (Can someone explain the Benning "they're killing people, oh they're denying it so we believe them" part?)

because it doesn't really make sense

sure cerberus will wipe out a colony if it gets them some sciency data

but for a few extra soldiers? nah...

[Belisarius25]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

Yate wrote...

Alex_Dur4and wrote...

Kai Leng

I like you.

I mean this is basically what everyone else is saying, only they're being dumb about it.

the bottom line is that people didn't like Leng

to which I say that you're not supposed to like him

he has no redeemable qualities

he's a total dick

Its not that he wins. Its how he wins that people hate.

I like Cerberus taking the VI. Great idea.. Heck, aside from Sanctuary its the only other thing they do that makes any sense. (Can someone explain the Benning "they're killing people, oh they're denying it so we believe them" part?)

My favorite part of the Benning briefing is the implication that Cerberus has some sort of PR department or spokesperson to even deny it in the first place.




Alternatively, Hackett is working for Cerberus

[Baranus33]

Like others have said, if it was longer like the other homeworld missions and included a longer build up plus side missions it would have been better. I don't have a problem with loosing the planet because that just makes the struggle better and more real. Kai Lang is another story, I felt more threatened from a husk humping my leg then that guy

[The Night Mammoth]

Yate wrote...

I love how people say 'plot armour' like it's a bad thing

like they're just realizing that the games have a plot

 and certain people need to make that plot happen

It is? 

If you can't move the plot without it being contrived, your plot isn't very good.

[crimzontearz]

It is kind of a slap in the face when you think about Kai Leng and Bioware's stance.that.boss fights are too videogamey....that and his arbitrary in your face victory make it awful

About the last part, DAO handled this kind of situation much bettrr

[Yate]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Yate wrote...

because the average gamer needs a big YOU WIN screen after every mission

people got mad that they couldn't win a fight that was impossible to win

and then they got mad that a villain didn't play fair

same with Catalyst

these people don't like any villain that's not Lex Luthor

No, the fight sucked because it was poorly designed. You get behind cover and continously shoot the guy while he dances around in one spot like a fairy. Even in my Insanity playthrough i don't think the guy ever made an attempt to even try to kill me or my squadmates. Hell i don't ever recall if he made a single attack against us. He's just a reskinned phantom, and the fight itself was lame.

This.  I love it so much when people belittle others and say what they wanted was juvenile when the thing they don't like is what is juvenile.  Kai Leng is just one of some truly poor characters in the game.  I don't mind not winning against him, but make it good and make it seem logical that I wouldn't.  He just dances around (good point) and then heckles.  It's like they took it straight out of the old Adam West Batman tv show.  I was waiting for the KAPOW and CABOOM to pop up on the screen.  Heck, Batman was done better. 

And as far as the kid-no I don't care that he doesn't play fair.  I care that he spews a lot of garbage non-logic and Shepard just is supposed to go along with that crap.  I care that he is some poor substitute for even a confronation with Harbinger-even if it was only a war of words.  I'd settle for a debate rather than the kid saying "this is my logic" and Shepard so to speak, saying, "sounds good to me, what do I do?"

he had a gunship and prior knowledge of the terrain

I'd say that counts as a good and logical

and yeah I can see that going well

"please stop doing what you've been working towards for billions of years, because I have lived less than a century and your reason for existing sounds kinda dumb"

"lolno"

there's your debate

[Yate]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Yate wrote...

I love how people say 'plot armour' like it's a bad thing

like they're just realizing that the games have a plot

 and certain people need to make that plot happen

It is? 

If you can't move the plot without it being contrived, your plot isn't very good.

all plots are contrived

because a person wrote them that way

[BirdsallSa]

Kai Leng was a superb villain. He's a guy who everyone hates and they love to hate him. He defeated Shepard 2 out of 3 times and set the stage for a final battle that could go either way. He taunted us, stopped us from achieving our goals and you could really see his character develop from one of TIM's grunt to a complicated villain with his own motives. You can keep crying that you couldn't stop him and save the asari, but it doesn't make you right. I bet you're the same people that believe you should be able to destroy the Reapers without sacrificing the Geth. This isn't an ice cream social, it's an rpg and an rpg is nothing without choices that have consequences.

[k.lalh]

I'm just going to concisely echo what I think is wrong with this mission. And I believe it's one that most of you would agree with.

If Kai Leng was a better developed villain, and we spent equal time on Thessia as we did with Rannoch and Tuchanka, given how important the Asari are in context of the game, we would have a winner.

But because we didn't, all we got was an average mission.

We usually remember the endings of things the clearest, and frankly, the boss fight with Kai Leng was too easy (even on Insanity) from a gameplay perspective, and he still somehow manages to escape. This bothered a lot of people including myself.

Criticizing the boss fight and the length of the mission are legitimate complaints.

However, as I've stated before, fighting about it isn't going to change anything.

[MattFini]

BirdsallSa wrote...

This isn't an ice cream social,

Crap. I was misinformed. 

Modifié par MattFini, 31 janvier 2013 - 10:06 .

[Jadebaby]

BirdsallSa wrote...

Kai Leng was a superb villain. He's a guy who everyone hates and they love to hate him. He defeated Shepard 2 out of 3 times and set the stage for a final battle that could go either way. He taunted us, stopped us from achieving our goals and you could really see his character develop from one of TIM's grunt to a complicated villain with his own motives. You can keep crying that you couldn't stop him and save the asari, but it doesn't make you right. I bet you're the same people that believe you should be able to destroy the Reapers without sacrificing the Geth. This isn't an ice cream social, it's an rpg and an rpg is nothing without choices that have consequences.

Sorry but Kai Leng was a terrible villian, this has nothing to do with the endings.

[Yate]

BirdsallSa wrote...

Kai Leng was a superb villain. He's a guy who everyone hates and they love to hate him. He defeated Shepard 2 out of 3 times and set the stage for a final battle that could go either way. He taunted us, stopped us from achieving our goals and you could really see his character develop from one of TIM's grunt to a complicated villain with his own motives. You can keep crying that you couldn't stop him and save the asari, but it doesn't make you right. I bet you're the same people that believe you should be able to destroy the Reapers without sacrificing the Geth. This isn't an ice cream social, it's an rpg and an rpg is nothing without choices that have consequences.

p much this

the whole point of Leng was that he was supposed to make you mad

he wasn't fair

he wasn't clever

he was annoying

[Yate]

I would support making the mission longer, but then we'd just get more whining from the Liara-haters.

[The Night Mammoth]

Yate wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Yate wrote...

I love how people say 'plot armour' like it's a bad thing

like they're just realizing that the games have a plot

 and certain people need to make that plot happen

It is? 

If you can't move the plot without it being contrived, your plot isn't very good.

all plots are contrived

because a person wrote them that way

I don't think you're understanding the meaning of the word contrived in this context. 

[Uncle Jo]

BirdsallSa wrote...

Kai Leng was a superb villain. He's a guy who everyone hates and they love to hate him. He defeated Shepard 2 out of 3 times and set the stage for a final battle that could go either way. He taunted us, stopped us from achieving our goals and you could really see his character develop from one of TIM's grunt to a complicated villain with his own motives. You can keep crying that you couldn't stop him and save the asari, but it doesn't make you right. I bet you're the same people that believe you should be able to destroy the Reapers without sacrificing the Geth. This isn't an ice cream social, it's an rpg and an rpg is nothing without choices that have consequences.

Space ninja, complex character, superb villain? LOL, no. Every one despises him and his contrived plot-armor. Hating him would be giving him credit he doesn't deserve.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

I think Thessia is a terrible mission for these reasons.

A: Lack of build-up means I do not give a **** about either Thessia's fate or the asari soldiers dying. Play all the sad music you want, I do not care.

B: The Asari beacon plot twist is completely pointless and goes nowhere.

C: The fight with Kai Leng. It should be noted that I am not angry for being forced to lose in this mission, I am angry for Shepard's defeat to happen in such a lame way. This is supposed to be a dramatic moment, yet I am crining for how damn stupid and anticlimactic it all is.

D: Shepard's forced autodialog after the mission, where is the option to chew at the councilor?

E: The reveal that Cerberus is just following the same path as other factions have done before. Wow, could you make TIM an even lamer villain? Now he is reduced to "puppet of fate".

[Asch Lavigne]

Why did Leng kill the scientists, leave their bodies lying there in plain sight, but lock the door from the outside? So no one but Shep could get it? Makes no sense either.

Modifié par Asch Lavigne, 31 janvier 2013 - 10:17 .

[k.lalh]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

Why did Leng kill the scientists, leave their bodies lying there in plain sight, but lock the door from the outside? So no one but Shep could get it? Makes no sense either.

I think that Shep had to be the one to retrieve it, as Leng was indoctrinated. The VI had fail safes that prevented it from being activated by an indoctrinated individual.

[GreyLycanTrope]

I disliked it because the fight against Lang was lame,(still lame when you fight him later he's just not that impressive as a boss in terms of combat mechanics or personality). The story was contrived and the drama was turned up to 11 which made it feel disingenuous and disproportional to our previously established context.

[Asch Lavigne]

k.lalh wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...

Why did Leng kill the scientists, leave their bodies lying there in plain sight, but lock the door from the outside? So no one but Shep could get it? Makes no sense either.

I think that Shep had to be the one to retrieve it, as Leng was indoctrinated. The VI had fail safes that prevented it from being activated by an indoctrinated individual.

Yeah, Shep had to retrieve it, I get that. But locking the door? What did no one else except Liara have the key? Everybody knew there was no word from the scientists but "oh look the doors locked so we can't get in and yeah, nevermind, they must be safe inside and locked the Reapers out. Lets get back to the war!"

Modifié par Asch Lavigne, 31 janvier 2013 - 10:19 .

[The Night Mammoth]

k.lalh wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...

Why did Leng kill the scientists, leave their bodies lying there in plain sight, but lock the door from the outside? So no one but Shep could get it? Makes no sense either.

I think that Shep had to be the one to retrieve it, as Leng was indoctrinated. The VI had fail safes that prevented it from being activated by an indoctrinated individual.

Which opens up a whole slew of questions concerning why that is. How did Cerberus know about it, how did they know where it was, how did they know Shepard knew, how did they know what it contained, how did they know Shepard was going there and when she would arrive, why was Shepard needed when the asari have been using it all this time. 

[Asch Lavigne]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

k.lalh wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...

Why did Leng kill the scientists, leave their bodies lying there in plain sight, but lock the door from the outside? So no one but Shep could get it? Makes no sense either.

I think that Shep had to be the one to retrieve it, as Leng was indoctrinated. The VI had fail safes that prevented it from being activated by an indoctrinated individual.

Which opens up a whole slew of questions concerning why that is. How did Cerberus know about it, how did they know where it was, how did they know Shepard knew, how did they know what it contained, how did they know Shepard was going there and when she would arrive, why was Shepard needed when the asari have been using it all this time. 

Yeah, that made no sense either. The Asari know of this secret beacon that they just happen to know will help with the Crucible? It could have been a useless data cache or another warning like the Eden Prime one. If they knew about the Catalyst that implies they knew about the Crucible which implies they knew about the Reapers.

[Uncle Jo]

k.lalh wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...

Why did Leng kill the scientists, leave their bodies lying there in plain sight, but lock the door from the outside? So no one but Shep could get it? Makes no sense either.

I think that Shep had to be the one to retrieve it, as Leng was indoctrinated. The VI had fail safes that prevented it from being activated by an indoctrinated individual.

You're right but how TIM did override Vendetta's security protocols is beyond me. Cerberus achieved in a few days what the Asari coudn't do in millenias. Cerberus is awesome.