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[dgcatanisiri]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

The claim that you have no choices in the scenes with Liara and Joker (both are optional, btw) is also wrong. My Shepard didn't appreciate the racial slur against her bondmate's race and I choose the renegade answers. 

. It wasnt a racial slur, it was a joke.  And there are some Shepards who would love to laugh at that joke, mine included.  Why should we get excluded? Two paths, same outcome == choice

This. Your Shepard wouldn't laugh at the joke, Barquiel (mine wouldn't either). Congratulations, you don't have to. Your Shepard wouldn't call out Tevos for her government's actions (mine would). Congratulations, you don't have to. Would you have found the existence of the option to do so threatening, though?

I'm a pretty consistent Quarian supporter, but I'd never call for dialogue calling them out for some of the crap they pull to be stripped from the game because I disagree with it (ex: Shepard's moronic whining about the Treaty of Farixen). More characterizing dialogue choices are always a good thing.

Exactly. Liara may be other people's bondmate, but she's not mine. So I'm not particularly looking to take the time to hold her hand when she's emotionally compromised while my Shepards are equally compromised. I see Joker's joke (and it IS a joke, not a racial slur) as him using humor as a coping mechanism. I do the same damn thing - at one point, I had three immediate family members in wheelchairs, I turn to my aunt, the only other able-bodied immediate family member, and would say 'we live in a family of cripples!' My Shepards do the same. It's how some people process. It's how Joker handles watching a world burn, his concern for his MIA family, and the fact that Anderson puts the weight of keeping Shepard afloat (which, really, dick move Anderson). People who suffer from depression commonly engage in black humor - the mental process involved boils down to 'laugh or cry.' We should be able to be angry with him, yes, but there should also be a 'Joker, not now' style reaction for those of us who aren't willing to rip him a new one for reacting as he would.

I don't argue the reactions that are in game being there. I argue that they are there regardless. That there is no variation. That I cannot decide for myself how Shepard is reacting. That the reactions that are there are the only reactions available. Shepard always mopes about Thessia. Shepard can't tell Liara to bottle it up, save it for later. We as players obviously have wildly different reactions to Thessia, Liara, Joker, the asari... So why does Shepard only get the one reaction?

I really don't understand the idea of limiting the options to just what one person wants - you want to be angry at Joker and empathetic to Liara, I want to be able to be empathetic to Joker and angry at Liara. Why couldn't we both have gotten our options?

[Cuttlebone]

Where did that BirdsallSa guy go? he most definitely needs to come back.

[Barquiel]

I really don't know why you're claiming that there is no variation. It's simply not true.

Paragon...
S: "I appreciate the thought, Joker. But I'm fine!"
Joker and Shep are still best buddies.

Renegade...
S: "When I want a damned pep-talk, I'll ask for one.  Otherwise, you're my pilot, not my therapist.  Is that clear?”
J: “Yes, Commander.” (Joker is mad for the rest of the game, you can apologize later)

The tone is completely different, Jokers reaction is completely different, the rest of Jokers dialogue in the game plays out differently.

It's the same with Liara.
"You did what you could." (Liara helps refugees on Thessia)
"You have to mourn later." (Liara is rather angry)
...or you don't visit her if you don't care.

And I certainly didn't get what I wanted either (some romance exclusive content like a hug would have been nice), and I found Shepards reaction too mild after Joker's "joke".

Modifié par Barquiel, 01 février 2013 - 08:18 .

[CynicalShep]

Cuttlebone wrote...

Where did that BirdsallSa guy go? he most definitely needs to come back.

This thread died a little when he left

[wright1978]

dgcatanisiri wrote...

I don't argue the reactions that are in game being there. I argue that they are there regardless. That there is no variation. That I cannot decide for myself how Shepard is reacting. That the reactions that are there are the only reactions available. Shepard always mopes about Thessia. Shepard can't tell Liara to bottle it up, save it for later. We as players obviously have wildly different reactions to Thessia, Liara, Joker, the asari... So why does Shepard only get the one reaction?

I really don't understand the idea of limiting the options to just what one person wants - you want to be angry at Joker and empathetic to Liara, I want to be able to be empathetic to Joker and angry at Liara. Why couldn't we both have gotten our options?

Yeah it is an issue in ME3 where it seems clear the writers clearly downgraded player characterisation of Shep as a prioirity and hence there's so much generic charcterisation added that conflicts the Shep's players have imported. Hope it isn't a trend that will continue.

[Steelcan]

Barquiel wrote...
I really don't know why you're claiming that there is no variation. It's simply not true.

The tone is completely different, Jokers reaction is completely different, the rest of Jokers dialogue in the game plays out differently.
It's the same with Liara.
"You did what you could." (Liara helps refugees on Thessia)
"You have to mourn later." (Liara is rather angry)
...or you don't visit her if you don't care.
And I certainly didn't get what I wanted either (some romance exclusive content like a hug would have been nice), and I found Shepards reaction too mild after Joker's "joke".

. That is the second dialogue option after talking to Joker.  The first still results in you being mad at joker no matter what.
-Paragon, Get mad at Joker
-Renegade, Get mad at Joker

you then get the second option which either reconciles or not.

And Shepard's reaction was NOT over the top.  

Modifié par Steelcan, 01 février 2013 - 09:17 .

[AresKeith]

Official DJ Harbinger wrote...

Cuttlebone wrote...

Looking at the thread of worst mission in the series, a lot of people have pointed at the Thessia mission. I can understand Priority Earth, or the geth consensus, but it truly riddles me why would someone point out Thessia as the worst of them all. Wasn't it up to expectations? was it the level design? or the overall story and revelations? I'm not trying to defend it, even though I liked it, I just don't get why so much dislike for it, especially compared to other missions.

Eh, I thought it was alright. Nice to see the Asari homeworld but nothing amazing, Priority: Earth is just a joke, BioWare's chance to have their own Gears of War. 

And the sad part is, London really did look like one of the missions from Gears of War

[The Night Mammoth]

AresKeith wrote...

Official DJ Harbinger wrote...

Cuttlebone wrote...

Looking at the thread of worst mission in the series, a lot of people have pointed at the Thessia mission. I can understand Priority Earth, or the geth consensus, but it truly riddles me why would someone point out Thessia as the worst of them all. Wasn't it up to expectations? was it the level design? or the overall story and revelations? I'm not trying to defend it, even though I liked it, I just don't get why so much dislike for it, especially compared to other missions.

Eh, I thought it was alright. Nice to see the Asari homeworld but nothing amazing, Priority: Earth is just a joke, BioWare's chance to have their own Gears of War. 

And the sad part is, London really did look like one of the missions from Gears of War

It's quite disheartening that in a sci-fi adventure game, where you've traveled across the galaxy to exotic locations like Ilos, Illium, Omega, and Virmire, interacted with fantastical alien creatures and discovered amazing new cultures, the climax of the story occurs in a bland, generic city scape on Earth. 

Nothing was memorable about it. When comparing it to say, Omega, which has a clear atmosphere and aesthetic, it's incredibly boring. I'd have thought the designers would pull out all the stops into making the finale of this potentiall ninety hour game iconic, like finally blasting through Suicide Mission was, or walking on the side of the Citadel Tower inching your way up to the looming mass of Sovereign was, but no, endless grey bombed out buildings connected by nothing but a procession of chest-high walls.

The only scene I think is the least bit worthy of remembering is the final one, with the Conduit beam shining in the distance behind the Destroyer, and even that was hardly inspiring considering this the third time we've been in this situation, and the first time involved a gigantic Thresher Maw erupting from the ground to duel it, so there's really no comparison.

Don't want to say anything about the combat other than "ugh, not more brutes."

The worst part, for me, was how their only attempt to make it appear like you're actually in London, were red telephone boxes everywhere. Clearly, that's the only defining feature of the city. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 01 février 2013 - 09:52 .

[AresKeith]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

It seems really weird that in a sci-fi game, where you've flown to numerous exotic locations like Ilos, Illium, Omega, and Virmire, fought fantastical aliens and discovered new cultures, the climax of the game occurs in a bland, generic city scape on Earth. 

Nothing was memorable about at all. When comparing it to say, Omega, which has a clear atmosphere and aesthetic, it's really incredibly boring. I'd have thought they'd pull out all the stops into making the finale of the game iconic, like the Suicide Mission was, or walking on the side of the Citadel Tower inching your way up to the looming mass of Sovereign but no. Don't want to say anything about the combat. 

The worst part, for me, was how their only attempts to make it appear like you're in London, were red telephone boxes everywhere. Clearly, that's the only defining feature of the city. 

Those red telephone boxes are special lol

I thought the same thing too for the final mission, that they was gonna make it an epic final mission

And Thessia was no better, If it had extra side-missions like Rannoch and Tuchanka and/or had been a Hub world then the mission would have been better

[The Night Mammoth]

AresKeith wrote...
Those red telephone boxes are special lol

I thought the same thing too for the final mission, that they was gonna make it an epic final mission

And Thessia was no better, If it had extra side-missions like Rannoch and Tuchanka and/or had been a Hub world then the mission would have been better

I appreciate that Thessia is supposed to be the 'beginning of the end' as it were, and I did reasonably enjoy the environment because it was distincitive, but the tone of the whole mission is so forced and abrupt. 

One minute I'm sitting on the cliff with Tali, enjoying the sunset after bringing peace to two sworn enemies after hundreds of years of animosity, recruting them both for the war, and the next I'm being pummeled with scenes of desperation and grief over the situation on Thessia. 

What the f*ck am I supposed to be feeling here, BioWare, desperation, or victorious?

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 01 février 2013 - 10:03 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Mainly because it's so short, linear and I couldn't tell Liara to shut her face- hence the bringing Javik along to do the deed.

It's the now normal Mass Effect game play; shooty-shooty with occasional Biotic Punch. It's incredibly straight forward, and you just shoot and kill everything until showing up at the temple, where Kai Lame has somehow already broken into- despite Shepard just being told where to go by the asari and somehow he got past the security field, killed the scientists (why the fcuk weren't they guarded?) and locked the field down again. Um, okay, sure.

Also the epic fail Kai Lame fight; seriously if you are gonna have such thick plot armour on a villain at least try and be subtle about it? With Saren in ME1; that is plot armour well done, like on Virmire when you are doing the fight. You beat him down in both shields and health; point is THEY GO DOWN and Saren actually attacks you, he doesn't flip about on the same spot like a faerie like Kai Lame. Even when the cut scene occurs Shepard RETALIATES when Saren grabs her; she full out decks him in the face. He then bolts; but Shepard needs to haul ass to avoid getting her ass nuked.

Saren's plot amour was more well hid, or not as glaring obvious as Kai Lames. Since the mission is critical in Virmire, you need to react quickly to save your team mates, like snatching up Kaidan or saving Ash and the salarians. With Thessia it's immortal gunship and then the temple falls down and Shepard nearly dies until rescued by Liara. Which can be another beef with people, stop making Liara EVERYTHING, hell make my Garbear be the once to pull Shepard outta the abyss.

Then afterwards Shepard is all "OMG ANGST" to anyone she talks to; now I just ignore everyone after this mission because Shepard's b!tching is so OOC and incredibly unprofessional; you're the fcuking Commander Shepard, you DO NOT verbally attack and bemoan how everything is your fault to your crew members and politicians. You are a beacon of strength and your childish attitude after Thessia is stupid and moronic. Leave the complaining with your LI or someone you have an intimate relation with; don't spazz out to everyone else. Seriously, I hate how my Shepard whined. Not to mention being all "IT'S MY FAULT" to the asari councilor; shut the fcuk up Shepard and shout at her instead for keeping this sh!t hidden for so long. If they had told you the moment Earth was attacked it could have saved a fcuk ton of causalities.

And Liara get off your damn bed and actually do something as the Shadow Broker- oh no wait Sam has already done your job for you.

[N7 Shadow 90]

The only reason the renegade interrupt to kill him on the Cronos station was so satisfying, for a lot of people, was because he annoyed you so much. Thessia added to that. I liked the Thessia fight story wise, as well as gameplay wise.

[Redbelle]

Tbh, the Asari being attacked on their homeworld? Doesn't hit as close to home as hearing the Quarian's are going to take their fleet and smash it into the Geth fleet.

The reason being that I've been to the Quarian fleet and defended Tali in what is essentually their home when it wasn't damaged in a war.

Thessia, as nice as it is, has no resonance for me as a place. There is no understanding of what is built there or why it was built. The Asari are supposed to be aloof, mysterious and secretive. So when it come's time to strap on the boot's and hop on down to their planet, it's not a planet I've seen heard and experienced before. It's just another place I need to traverse while shooting stuff from behind whatever cover is avaialble.

If we'd gone there before the Reaper's invaded and had a more sedate and cerebral introduction to the Asari homeworld, only to come back and find it ruined it would have been a different story. Probably not good in term's of narrative pacing but it would have been a place that meant more than being the zone where I wasn't allowed to kill Kai Guy despite being Boss Shepard.

Modifié par Redbelle, 01 février 2013 - 10:10 .

[AresKeith]

N7 Shadow 90 wrote...

The only reason the renegade interrupt to kill him on the Cronos station was so satisfying, for a lot of people, was because he annoyed you so much. Thessia added to that. I liked the Thessia fight story wise, as well as gameplay wise.

Kai Leng wasn't the main reason why a lot of people didn't enjoy Thessia that much

[iOnlySignIn]

It's Shepard apologizing to Tevos.

My Shepard would have made Joker's joke instead.

[JBPBRC]

Redbelle wrote...

Tbh, the Asari being attacked on their homeworld? Doesn't hit as close to home as hearing the Quarian's are going to take their fleet and smash it into the Geth fleet.

The reason being that I've been to the Quarian fleet and defended Tali in what is essentually their home when it wasn't damaged in a war.

Thessia, as nice as it is, has no resonance for me as a place. There is no understanding of what is built there or why it was built. The Asari are supposed to be aloof, mysterious and secretive. So when it come's time to strap on the boot's and hop on down to their planet, it's not a planet I've seen heard and experienced before. It's just another place I need to traverse while shooting stuff from behind whatever cover is avaialble.

If we'd gone there before the Reaper's invaded and had a more sedate and cerebral introduction to the Asari homeworld, only to come back and find it ruined it would have been a different story. Probably not good in term's of narrative pacing but it would have been a place that meant more than being the zone where I wasn't allowed to kill Kai Guy despite being Boss Shepard.

This. Pretty much the same reason why I didn't care about Earth. There's just no connection to it.  On top of that, there wasn't anything new added to the mix beyond "Look! Blue space women homeworld is under attack!" Gameplay consisted of standard Reaper troops (thank Primus that it wasn't Derperus for most of the mission) mixed with a turret section.

Kai Lame and his "boss" battle combined with Shepard's railroad dialogue was just the icing on the foul cake.

[xMellowhype]

The concept is good but the execution was terrible. Plus I can't mute Liara.

[Zkyire]

Barquiel wrote...

It was short (no side missions), it's totally linear (I even reloaded a couple times seeing if there was anything I could do to save Talon 5) and the boss fight was simply bad.

All of this.

And Shepard's reaction.

[Ice Cold J]

 My only two issues with it are Liara's whining and everyone going, "Shep? You failed? What's worng with you?"

I'm like, "B*tch please, I've beaten3 Reapers and a Reaper baby, a rogue Spectre, and a bunch of Prothean Husks. What have YOU done?"

[Hazegurl]

Steelcan wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

The claim that you have no choices in the scenes with Liara and Joker (both are optional, btw) is also wrong. My Shepard didn't appreciate the racial slur against her bondmate's race and I choose the renegade answers. 

. It wasnt a racial slur, it was a joke.  And there are some Shepards who would love to laugh at that joke, mine included.  Why should we get excluded? Two paths, same outcome == choice

Right, I found it funny and I know my shep would. My shep is the same guy who didn't give two craps about the hanar home world over saving the salarian. He sabotaged the genophage with no problems and shot up his "buddy" Wrex and will tell Joker the Quarians are stupid if he is forced to choose between them and the geth (he chose geth plenty of times). Yet it's Thessia that does it for him?

plus I remember the Asari Matriach bartender from ME2 that the other asari laughed at when she tried to mobilize them. So yeah screw the asari homeworld. it fell due to their own superiority and stupidity. It's a shame that bioware's shep doesn't feel that way. But then again bioware's shep is crying over some retard kid who wouldn't accept his help so....

[warblewobble]

On the Priority: Earth mission, I think just about everyone who played through ME2 was expecting better, suicide mission-style. Personally I think the silliest part of it is when you man the turret in camp. I once just sat there without shooting and after a little while the ships came and did the airstrike anyway. There's literally no point to it.

[DeinonSlayer]

Hazegurl wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

The claim that you have no choices in the scenes with Liara and Joker (both are optional, btw) is also wrong. My Shepard didn't appreciate the racial slur against her bondmate's race and I choose the renegade answers. 

. It wasnt a racial slur, it was a joke.  And there are some Shepards who would love to laugh at that joke, mine included.  Why should we get excluded? Two paths, same outcome == choice

Right, I found it funny and I know my shep would. My shep is the same guy who didn't give two craps about the hanar home world over saving the salarian. He sabotaged the genophage with no problems and shot up his "buddy" Wrex and will tell Joker the Quarians are stupid if he is forced to choose between them and the geth (he chose geth plenty of times). Yet it's Thessia that does it for him?

plus I remember the Asari Matriach bartender from ME2 that the other asari laughed at when she tried to mobilize them. So yeah screw the asari homeworld. it fell due to their own superiority and stupidity. It's a shame that bioware's shep doesn't feel that way. But then again bioware's shep is crying over some retard kid who wouldn't accept his help so....

Seems relevant:

[Bill Casey]

warblewobble wrote...

On the Priority: Earth mission, I think just about everyone who played through ME2 was expecting better, suicide mission-style. Personally I think the silliest part of it is when you man the turret in camp. I once just sat there without shooting and after a little while the ships came and did the airstrike anyway. There's literally no point to it.

If you don't do it well enough, the people on the FOB radio die horribly...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 02 février 2013 - 03:44 .

[celestialfury]

Joker's joke about Thessia is terrible and I'm glad Shep is forced to have common sense there and yell at him.