440 réponses à ce sujet

[Cuttlebone]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Thessia didn't have variety. That was the problem. There was no Thessian lore. If it was a la mode of the consensus, with lots of information sprinkled in, it would have been more tolerable. But there was no lore, no dialogue, no new gameplay mechanics, and it was just boring. If I want that kind of thing I can play multiplayer, and multiplayer has the dynamic of other people (which I enjoy) and being able to play as aliens.

What about the whole museum\\temple part? it was basically just dialogue and lore

[Reorte]

MACharlie1 wrote...

The problem with the Geth consensus was that it totally white washed Geth atrocities. It didn't point out that the Geth did in fact wipe out 2/3 of the Quarian population and killed anyone who ventured beyond the veil. It was just a very biased storyline and we are forced to accept it.

It's fair enough in its way though. We've had the quarian-sided view from Tali, now it's the geth's turn. A bit of thinking and problem-solving to get through it, rather than just finding the right blocks to shoot at, would've been nice though and given it some replayability.

It doesn't help that in the leak the mission was supposed to be so much better with us being able to actually communicate with virtual Quarians outside the helmet. It's just another mission that was obviously rushed.

I've not heard about that.

[Teddie Sage]

Because my Shepard stopped feeling like mine starting with this mission.
It didn't feel like an RPG anymore but an action movie.

[Auld Wulf]

MACharlie1 wrote...

It didn't point out that the Geth did in fact wipe out 2/3 of the Quarian population [...]

Uh. Because they didn't.

Okay. See, Bioware pretty much holds up a sign at that point saying...

"The quarian military is made up of rabidly crazy fascists who'd throw a few billion ICBMs in the direction of any settlement or city who'd even entertain the notion of harbouring those vile, 'orrible geths."

How do you not realise that the geth weren't responsible? The quarian military were fascist nutjobs who were killing their own people off out of fear. Need further evidence of their military being fascist nutjobs? Look at how they were planning on dealing with the geth:

How I'd Handle Civilian Ships

Don't give them weapons, weapons make them a target. What you do is you outfit them with the best engines and power sources in your fleet, and you give them some pretty good shields, too. Then you form a barricade of military ships between the aggressors and the military fleet. This is a fairly old and sensible tactic for defending vulnerable, but necessary assets. In this case, for defending the civilians. You just make a wagon trail around them, and ensure that the military ships continue to be such a target that their hostile forces don't even think of attacking the civilians. If things get bad, the civilian ships at least have a chance by breaking up and fleeing, it's likely that not all of them will get caught.

The bonus here is that the geth only fire in self-defence; any ship not firing upon them won't be fired upon.

How The Quarian Military Handle Civilian Ships

Shields? Noap. Engines? Noap. They equip them with weapons just good enough to harm the geth, and they send them out to die. They do this because they can use them as pawns, they send out the civilian ships to distract the geth whilst the military enacts their strategy. The end result of this is that military lives are saved at the expense of civilian lives.

The absolute evil here is that the geth only fire in self-defence; so they'd have to defend themselves from civilian ships.

Conclusion

The quarian military is effin' crazy. Seriously... how do so few people get this? I have no issues with the quarian civilians. But their military is made up of just... clinically insane, horrible people, people who put no value on civilian life at all. And that's why the quarian military was responsible for killing most of their people in the Morning War.

And the geth get blamed for this by people who're just so completely unobservant that they haven't noticed despite all the obvious clues, or people who just have this worrying, xenophobic hatred for the geth (see a counsellor).

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 31 janvier 2013 - 07:11 .

[Barquiel]

JBPBRC wrote...

themikefest wrote...

I didn't like T'Soni whing the whole time

when she says "the next time we go to war maybe the Alliance could provide support"
my renegade femshep would've turned around and say "shut the f**k up. Your f**king government hid this artifact from us while the reapers invade other planets and only now tell us about the artifact

...Wait. Did she actually say this? 

*facepalms all up in this thread*

The asari (and every other major race) send several fleets to take earth back when the alliance did...nothing to help asari/turian/etc. planets. I am glad someone pointed this out.

[Ticonderoga117]

Barquiel wrote...


The asari (and every other major race) send several fleets to take earth back when the alliance did...nothing to help asari/turian/etc. planets. I am glad someone pointed this out.

They sent Commander "BAMF" Shepard to sort things out.

Besides, that still doesn't counter-act the whole "We've been hiding this extremely important Prothean VI from everyone for centuries. If only we used it a bit better we wouldn't be in this situation" thing.

[themikefest]

JBPBRC wrote...

themikefest wrote...

I didn't like T'Soni whing the whole time

when she says "the next time we go to war maybe the Alliance could provide support"
my renegade femshep would've turned around and say "shut the f**k up. Your f**king government hid this artifact from us while the reapers invade other planets and only now tell us about the artifact

...Wait. Did she actually say this? 

*facepalms all up in this thread*

yes she does 
here at 19:29 she says it

[JBPBRC]

Barquiel wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

themikefest wrote...

I didn't like T'Soni whing the whole time

when she says "the next time we go to war maybe the Alliance could provide support"
my renegade femshep would've turned around and say "shut the f**k up. Your f**king government hid this artifact from us while the reapers invade other planets and only now tell us about the artifact

...Wait. Did she actually say this? 

*facepalms all up in this thread*

The asari (and every other major race) send several fleets to take earth back when the alliance did...nothing to help asari/turian/etc. planets. I am glad someone pointed this out.

You mean aside from curing the genophage, solving the Rachni problem (again), and saving the new Turian primarch and taking down the reborn Sith Empire?

[Kel Riever]

You know, I haven't tried two things to beat Kai Leng. One is using the Arc pistol to punch through his shields. The second is, and I think BioWare did a GREAT job of alluding to how this could be done, is having Shep jump onboard the gunship and take it over. With all the leaping Shep does in the cinematics, the player clearly has the ability to do this. I think it is just a matter of getting to the gunship and leaping at just the right moment.

Which squad members do you all think would be best for distracting Kai Leng while I do this? Maybe Javik? James? Do you all have build recommendations so they can take the most damage possible, and therefore last the longest against Kai Leng? Please let me know.

[Barquiel]

JBPBRC wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

themikefest wrote...

I didn't like T'Soni whing the whole time

when she says "the next time we go to war maybe the Alliance could provide support"
my renegade femshep would've turned around and say "shut the f**k up. Your f**king government hid this artifact from us while the reapers invade other planets and only now tell us about the artifact

...Wait. Did she actually say this? 

*facepalms all up in this thread*

The asari (and every other major race) send several fleets to take earth back when the alliance did...nothing to help asari/turian/etc. planets. I am glad someone pointed this out.

You mean aside from curing the genophage, solving the Rachni problem (again), and saving the new Turian primarch and taking down the reborn Sith Empire?

That was Shepard (a spectre), not the alliance.

[JBPBRC]

Kel Riever wrote...

You know, I haven't tried two things to beat Kai Leng. One is using the Arc pistol to punch through his shields. The second is, and I think BioWare did a GREAT job of alluding to how this could be done, is having Shep jump onboard the gunship and take it over. With all the leaping Shep does in the cinematics, the player clearly has the ability to do this. I think it is just a matter of getting to the gunship and leaping at just the right moment.

Biotic Charge on a vanguard should've made this a viable tactic. +1 internetz to you sir.

[JBPBRC]

Barquiel wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

themikefest wrote...

I didn't like T'Soni whing the whole time

when she says "the next time we go to war maybe the Alliance could provide support"
my renegade femshep would've turned around and say "shut the f**k up. Your f**king government hid this artifact from us while the reapers invade other planets and only now tell us about the artifact

...Wait. Did she actually say this? 

*facepalms all up in this thread*

The asari (and every other major race) send several fleets to take earth back when the alliance did...nothing to help asari/turian/etc. planets. I am glad someone pointed this out.

You mean aside from curing the genophage, solving the Rachni problem (again), and saving the new Turian primarch and taking down the reborn Sith Empire?

That was Shepard (a spectre), not the alliance.

An Alliance officer, reinstated by an Alliance admiral, with an Alliance crew, using an Alliance warship, under orders from another Alliance admiral to get support in any way he can to help build an Alliance-sponsored doomsday weapon that the Alliance isn't exactly sure what it'll do, but damn it they need the support!

Shepard's Spectre status is only used when convenient for the plot, such as at the STG base. The majority of the time, Shepard is acting more as an N7 officer than as a Spectre.

Modifié par JBPBRC, 31 janvier 2013 - 07:15 .

[Reorte]

Barquiel wrote...

The asari (and every other major race) send several fleets to take earth back when the alliance did...nothing to help asari/turian/etc. planets. I am glad someone pointed this out.

They're there because someone's persuaded them that the Crucible might actually work and the fact that it involves going to Earth to use it isn't particularly relevant to them.

[XxBrokenBonezxX]

BirdsallSa wrote...

Thessia was a fantastic mission and acts as foreshadowing of the Catalyst for those who don't own Leviathan. The fight scene with Kai Leng is epic and really sets the stage for a great finale.

Troll alert, Troll alert. Kai Leng being epic in any way, shape or form. You're a funny guy.

Seriously though; Kai Lame. Other than that I have no real problem with the mission. I think it's great until he shows up....and then the rest of the game starts to go downhill.

[Barquiel]

Reorte wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

The asari (and every other major race) send several fleets to take earth back when the alliance did...nothing to help asari/turian/etc. planets. I am glad someone pointed this out.

They're there because someone's persuaded them that the Crucible might actually work and the fact that it involves going to Earth to use it isn't particularly relevant to them.

The problem with the storyline is that Turians and Asari were willing to commit to Earth before the Citadel was at Earth. Hackett even says that the fleets would try to liberate Earth even if we can't finish the crucible. Why couldn't it be "Save Palaven/Thessia...and then save the rest of the galaxy". From a strategic point of view, it would certainly make more sense.

Modifié par Barquiel, 31 janvier 2013 - 07:26 .

[JBPBRC]

Barquiel wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

The asari (and every other major race) send several fleets to take earth back when the alliance did...nothing to help asari/turian/etc. planets. I am glad someone pointed this out.

They're there because someone's persuaded them that the Crucible might actually work and the fact that it involves going to Earth to use it isn't particularly relevant to them.

The problem with the storyline is that Turians and Asari were willing to commit to Earth before the Citadel was at Earth. Hackett even says that the fleets would try to liberate Earth even if we can't finish the crucible. Why couldn't it be "Save Palaven/Thessia...and then save the rest of the galaxy". from a strategic point of view, it would certainly make more sense

I agree.

Unfortunately, railroading happened.

[Reorte]

Barquiel wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

The asari (and every other major race) send several fleets to take earth back when the alliance did...nothing to help asari/turian/etc. planets. I am glad someone pointed this out.

They're there because someone's persuaded them that the Crucible might actually work and the fact that it involves going to Earth to use it isn't particularly relevant to them.

The problem with the storyline is that Turians and Asari were willing to commit to Earth before the Citadel was at Earth. Hackett even says that the fleets would try to liberate Earth even if we can't finish the crucible. Why couldn't it be "Save Palaven/Thessia...and then save the rest of the galaxy". From a strategic point of view, it would certainly make more sense.

I'd forgotten exactly what they said but you're right. I was giving it the benefit of bad memory by thinking that they'd just committed to a common force against the Reapers.

[Belisarius25]

The Asari also don't send anyone to the summit with the Korgan, Salarians and Turians, which sort of dampens the idea that they were encouraging any sort of cooperation. Not sending everyone off to Earth was the right call until the Citadel moved there, but isolating themselves like they did was not.

Anyway, as for Liara's reaction/"attitude", it's very understandable from her point of view. The problem that comes up is that (assuming you have your full squad + Javik), you have

Shepard/Vega/VS (Earth already attacked and ruined)
Garrus (Palaven attacked and ruined, family MIA)
Javik (Entire race wiped out)

Then throw in Tali (Quarians have a pretty nasty history of almost dying out, both in the Morning War and against the Geth [casualties even if you get peace])...and you've got a lot of people who've already lost their worlds, possibly everything they have.

Liara's not at all wrong at being upset, it just comes so late in the game that I felt "yeah, welcome to our world" a bit.

[ZLurps]

Priority Thessia is perhaps my favourite main mission in ME3. It has great atmosphere, visually it's very pleasing and different from other main missions and we get to see Asari fight. There is that feeling about huge conflict, much like in Palaven.

Exploring the temple works very well, it adds very welcomed slower sequence in game. I see lot of people say it's much better with Javik than other squad mates. I have played it with Garrus, Javik and Ash, and I liked Garrus lines the best.

That said, bringing Kai Leng there must be one of the biggest trolls in the history of gaming. There was this great atmosphere and sense of discovery and everything I liked so much in ME series.

Then they throw one of the most irritating game sequences ever in the mix in a form of Kai Leng. The whole sequence is off, like looking a picture where you first see face of beautiful woman and then when see the rest of it you notice that someone has glued that face on a picture of cow. TROLOLOLOL, it almost feels like it was ruined on purpose.

99% of Thessia is great though and I have learned just to ignore Leng sequence. It's a pity we don't have another mission on Thessia, but other than short length and Leng it's great. I guess it may be in the shadow of those two things and how writers choose to force that "feeling Shepard" to us in aftermath.

[CynicalShep]

1. Kai Leng
2. Auto-dialogue
3. Forced emotions

That being said, Priority: Thessia is far from the worst mission in the series

[JBPBRC]

Belisarius25 wrote...

The Asari also don't send anyone to the summit with the Korgan, Salarians and Turians, which sort of dampens the idea that they were encouraging any sort of cooperation. Not sending everyone off to Earth was the right call until the Citadel moved there, but isolating themselves like they did was not.

Anyway, as for Liara's reaction/"attitude", it's very understandable from her point of view. The problem that comes up is that (assuming you have your full squad + Javik), you have

Shepard/Vega/VS (Earth already attacked and ruined)
Garrus (Palaven attacked and ruined, family MIA)
Javik (Entire race wiped out)

Then throw in Tali (Quarians have a pretty nasty history of almost dying out, both in the Morning War and against the Geth [casualties even if you get peace])...and you've got a lot of people who've already lost their worlds, possibly everything they have.

Liara's not at all wrong at being upset, it just comes so late in the game that I felt "yeah, welcome to our world" a bit.

Having had time to reflect a bit on this line, is it possible Thessia wasn't supposed to have played out as late as it did? Perhaps it was a more ME2-style setup with missions being able to be done independently of each other?  I mean, its not like they had a concrete grasp of exactly what they were going to do when they were writing the game.

[KotorEffect3]

I actualy like the the Thessia mission, the only criticism I have of it is how short it is.

[fiendishchicken]

Kai Leng and his magic powers of plot armor.

Really short, and doesn't really have the impact you think it would have for a mission that's supposed to represent Shepard's failure. It feels rushed and incomplete.

If not for the Kai Leng bit, it would be lost to obscurity as the Menae mission (I never hear anyone talking about that mission. It's not bad, but it's not good. It's forgettable.

[Steelcan]

I hate it because I'm cleaning up for the idiotic Asari

[kalasaurus]

Belisarius25 wrote...

Anyway, as for Liara's reaction/"attitude", it's very understandable from her point of view. The problem that comes up is that (assuming you have your full squad + Javik), you have

Shepard/Vega/VS (Earth already attacked and ruined)
Garrus (Palaven attacked and ruined, family MIA)
Javik (Entire race wiped out)

Then throw in Tali (Quarians have a pretty nasty history of almost dying out, both in the Morning War and against the Geth [casualties even if you get peace])...and you've got a lot of people who've already lost their worlds, possibly everything they have.

Liara's not at all wrong at being upset, it just comes so late in the game that I felt "yeah, welcome to our world" a bit.

Agreed.  Garrus, Tali, Kaidan, and Adams are all concerned for Liara, worried about her well being; and then Liara goes and starts crap with Javik because he's the only one who won't coddle her?  What does she expect from him?  Everyone on the ship is going through all sorts of pain because of the Reapers .

I don't blame her for being upset and I'm not a Liara-hater, but that just rubbed me the wrong way.

Modifié par GlassElephant, 31 janvier 2013 - 08:04 .