216 réponses à ce sujet

[Jarno Mikkola]

HolyAvenger wrote...

An uncharged version, to be balanced, who have to do like 1/4th of the damage of the charged version.

Instead of getting complicated and making it like the Arc Pistol (would require programming changes to gun's mechanics), I prefer the charge up variant.

So you prefer getting killed because you released the trigger a few milliseconds too early ?
Or more likelly you just prefer to use the auto trigger you have set up with your mouse/AutoHotkey... hmm. Has anyone seen the usual gun trigger holding timers on Platinium ?

Bryan Johnson wrote...
It certainly doesn't need a  powerup

OK, I'll give you that. But the releasing too early or getting the Geth boot during is still a problem with this scennario.

Modifié par Jarno Mikkola, 01 février 2013 - 10:19 .

[HolyAvenger]

Jarno Mikkola wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

An uncharged version, to be balanced, who have to do like 1/4th of the damage of the charged version.

Instead of getting complicated and making it like the Arc Pistol (would require programming changes to gun's mechanics), I prefer the charge up variant.

So you prefer getting killed because you released the trigger a few milliseconds too early ?
Or more likelly you just prefer to use the auto trigger you have set up with your mouse/AutoHotkey... hmm. Has anyone seen the usual gun trigger holding timers on Platinium ?

I almost never shoot too early (hehe)

I don't use an auto-trigger.


Basically, just like many other guns (Javelin firing delay, PPR ramp up etc) it has a different firing mechanic that needs to be mastered and too many players are simply too lazy to practice, and I don't want to indulge them and get one of my favourite guns nerfed.

[Cohen le Barbare]

I think the acolyte should do next to no damage to health/armor and only strip shields/barriers, but I suppose that's nigh impossible to do.

[121210Olivia]

Charge up is a royal pain in the bottom. Casters (especially, vanilla Asari Adepts) suffer big time, and this, quite frankly, isn't fun.

Chargeless + slight nerf is all that is needed.
Do this while buffing other pistols and hey presto--problem solved and many players happy.

[Lucky]

HolyAvenger wrote...


Basically, just like many other guns (Javelin firing delay, PPR ramp up etc) it has a different firing mechanic that needs to be mastered and too many players are simply too lazy to practice, and I don't want to indulge them and get one of my favourite guns nerfed.

And I don't want to have to run around holding the trigger all day but I guess I'll just have to deal

Oh well at least the gun will be more powerful. I truly don't get the "people like it and use it a lot therefore it needs nerfed mentality".

Modifié par rlucht, 01 février 2013 - 10:40 .

[HolyAvenger]

121210Olivia wrote...

Charge up is a royal pain in the bottom. Casters (especially, vanilla Asari Adepts) suffer big time, and this, quite frankly, isn't fun.

Chargeless + slight nerf is all that is needed.
Do this while buffing other pistols and hey presto--problem solved and many players happy.

Actually going chargeless had already brought about one nerf, and was about to get more. Casters don't suffer (I run basically all my casters with Acolyte, bar the AA because Stasis), they just  need a bit more forethought with regards to use.

One second really is NOT that long.

[HolyAvenger]

rlucht wrote...

I truly don't get the "people like it and use it a lot therefore it needs nerfed mentality".

Because when 1 gun is so popular and easy to use that every single kit and lobby and has it, the game becomes boring.

It was certainly like that for me pre-Krysae nerf. I stopped playing.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Clearly the amount of whining that ensues whenever the charge is brought back shows that in fact there is a learning curve to using the charge-up variant, and most players don't want to master it and in fact don't find it as easy to use as the insta-shot version.

Nah, there is no skill or learning in holding down a trigger until you release it.  There is certainly no "l2p" that can produce soft cover on demand or stop cover busting enemies from driving you from soft cover.  A charge up gun in the hands of a squishy caster is condusive to gettting to take a dirt nap.   It is sad that the mass effect series is devolving into just another shooter.

The acolyte is an example of why removing gun restrictions from classes is a bad idea.  The shooty classes can turn any weapon into an overpowered one and the power-focused classes suffer for it.  I hope weapon restrictions return in ME4 or at least that there are certain particular weapons that are class specific. 

[Cohen le Barbare]

The charge up of this gun synchronizes well with the cooldown of most casters. It's all about the sound with this gun: when its pitch is quite high, you can release the trigger. Seriously, after a couple of silver waves (solo preferably) it's not a big deal.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

HolyAvenger wrote...

rlucht wrote...

I truly don't get the "people like it and use it a lot therefore it needs nerfed mentality".

Because when 1 gun is so popular and easy to use that every single kit and lobby and has it, the game becomes boring.

It was certainly like that for me pre-Krysae nerf. I stopped playing.

So using that logic, nerf ALL the popular guns.  Claymore, regar, harrier to start.  Don't just nerf the "caster pistol."

As part of the bi-weekly balance change Bioware could determine which guns are used the most and nerf the top three.  Then we can approach an equilibruim of all guns, eh?  Do the same for all the kits.  Whichever three are the most popular nerf them in the bi-weekly update.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 01 février 2013 - 10:48 .

[HolyAvenger]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Clearly the amount of whining that ensues whenever the charge is brought back shows that in fact there is a learning curve to using the charge-up variant, and most players don't want to master it and in fact don't find it as easy to use as the insta-shot version.

Nah, there is no skill or learning in holding down a trigger until you release it.  There is certainly no "l2p" that can produce soft cover on demand or stop cover busting enemies from driving you from soft cover.  A charge up gun in the hands of a squishy caster is condusive to gettting to take a dirt nap.   It is sad that the mass effect series is devolving into just another shooter.

The skill is in know where there is soft cover, and knowing how to dodge attacks and knowing how to stay alive as a squishy kit.

[megabeast37215]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

So using that logic, nerf ALL the popular guns.  Claymore, regar, harrier to start.  Don't just nerf the "caster pistol."

It sounds to me that you're getting your caster pistol mod in the new DLC... that should give you a woody without Viagra/Cialis.

[HolyAvenger]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

rlucht wrote...

I truly don't get the "people like it and use it a lot therefore it needs nerfed mentality".

Because when 1 gun is so popular and easy to use that every single kit and lobby and has it, the game becomes boring.

It was certainly like that for me pre-Krysae nerf. I stopped playing.

So using that logic, nerf ALL the popular guns.  Claymore, regar, harrier to start.  Don't just nerf the "caster pistol."

Don't see those guns in every lobby like the chargeless Acolyte.

[stysiaq]

Acolyte should work as it was intended to work.

As I said in another thread, removing the mechanic = removing the guns animation = rendering the time spent implementing it in the first place pointless.

[Lucky]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Because when 1 gun is so popular and easy to use that every single kit and lobby and has it, the game becomes boring.

It was certainly like that for me pre-Krysae nerf. I stopped playing.

Because a lot of people are having fun with a weapon it needs made worse is not the way to make a fun game IMO especially when its not competitive. Also, the charge was only removed for a short time and people were enjoying being able to finally use the weapon without annoyance, people would've moved on.

Also, the gun is flat out OP as it is and I wouldn't be opposed to seeing a nerfed version either way. Seriously a character can invest near half of their skill points into overload and power damage bonuses and still be worse at stripping shields than this gun.

[Lucky]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
So using that logic, nerf ALL the popular guns.  Claymore, regar, harrier to start.  Don't just nerf the "caster pistol."

As part of the bi-weekly balance change Bioware could determine which guns are used the most and nerf the top three.  Then we can approach an equilibruim of all guns, eh?  Do the same for all the kits.  Whichever three are the most popular nerf them in the bi-weekly update.

This.

This kinda mentality is what gets us totally unwarranted buffs to Phase Disruptor and nerfs to things that don't deserve it.

[HolyAvenger]

rlucht wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Because when 1 gun is so popular and easy to use that every single kit and lobby and has it, the game becomes boring.

It was certainly like that for me pre-Krysae nerf. I stopped playing.

Because a lot of people are having fun with a weapon it needs made worse is not the way to make a fun game IMO especially when its not competitive. Also, the charge was only removed for a short time and people were enjoying being able to finally use the weapon without annoyance, people would've moved on.

Also, the gun is flat out OP as it is and I wouldn't be opposed to seeing a nerfed version either way. Seriously a character can invest near half of their skill points into overload and power damage bonuses and still be worse at stripping shields than this gun.

Yeah, actually, even in a PVE game, to keep your audience entertained, there needs to be multiple equally or near-equally viable loadouts and mechanics so people don't get bored of seeing or using the same things over and over again. That's a basic tenet of game design.

Maybe people would've moved on, but without severe nerfing, probably not. With no charge, there was no learning curve or downside to using the weapon. It was a no-brainer to take it as a sidearm on every single kit. BioWare's metadata probably showed them exactly how acute the problem was hence the fact there were about to nerf it multiple times.

The gun isn't OP, it just makes a lot of different kits viable as casters such as non-overload engineers and all biotics. Since the metagame is dominated by weapon and grenade kits, this is not a bad thing. That said, if you made it to do almost no damage to health and shields, but upped the damage multiplier against shields or barriers, I could live with that (i.e. you couldn't kill an assault trooper with it, but you could strip a Centurion's shields).

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

rlucht wrote...

Because a lot of people are having fun with a weapon it needs made worse is not the way to make a fun game IMO especially when its not competitive. Also, the charge was only removed for a short time and people were enjoying being able to finally use the weapon without annoyance, people would've moved on.

Indeed, that is one of the many reasons Diablo 3 is an epic fail.  The developers saw people using certain skills more than others and hit them with a nerf stick and said they did it to foster diversity. Never mind that the unused skills sucked and should have been buffed instead of nerfing the few good ones.

Nerfing something because it is popular is not a good way to balance a game in my opinion.

Buff the seldom used weapons.  Buff the seldom used kits.  That will foster diversity.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 01 février 2013 - 10:59 .

[Lucky]

Making caster kits with dedicated shield stripping near obsolete is not my idea of balance...

IMO overload is basically only useful these days for setting up shots with its stun, since the swap weapon time is to long to just use the acolye for that, as one would be better off doing in every other situation.

[HolyAvenger]

rlucht wrote...

Making caster kits with dedicated shield stripping near obsolete is not my idea of balance...

IMO overload is basically only useful these days for setting up shots with its stun, since the swap weapon time is to long to just use the acolye for that, as one would be better off doing in every other situation.

You think constant TBs and FEs are obsolete

The buffs to techsplosions has made overload kits godly.

[megabeast37215]

rlucht wrote...
IMO overload is basically only useful these days for setting up shots with its stun, since the swap weapon time is to long to just use the acolye for that, as one would be better off doing in every other situation.

So if the Acolyte was chargeless... you would put it on the majority of your kits as a dedicated shield stripper? This is why it will always have the charge... so it's not on the majority of kits.

When Destroyers start carrying around Acolytes... you know there's something wrong.

[stysiaq]

Removing the charge-up from the Acolyte is equal to the following:

- removing the Javelin shot delay
- removing the PPR overcharge mechanic
- making the Scorpion rounds explode immediately in every case.

All of these changes would make using the weapons easier. But it's the learning curve that makes some things in this game fun.

I guess some folks shiver at the "learning" part, but that's their problem, not mine.

[MindAssassin]

The fact is that the gun is based on high risk high reward. The risk being if you let go too soon you've got a brief period of vulnerability. If you remove this risk, the power will have to be significantly reduced. At this point it will cease to be desirable for anyone.

And this gun is fantastic on Asari casters. Practice.

[R0binME]

Just played a game with the "new" chargeless. I can't believe how much I'm missing the one with charge.

I want the charge mechanic back asap

[GallowsPole]

stysiaq wrote...

Removing the charge-up from the Acolyte is equal to the following:

- removing the Javelin shot delay
- removing the PPR overcharge mechanic
- making the Scorpion rounds explode immediately in every case.

All of these changes would make using the weapons easier. But it's the learning curve that makes some things in this game fun.

I guess some folks shiver at the "learning" part, but that's their problem, not mine.

In all fairness, there is nothing to 'learn' per se other than strategy. I personally like the gun, but cant stand charge up mechanics. I can tell you I don't suck with it, unlike the Javelin in which I do, I just don't like charging period. It hurts my hands trying to run, find cover and keeping the gun charged. For those that can do it though, hey more power to them. I don't think the charge up should be totally removed though so 100% of the player base could use it in ez mode. Even chargless I don't use it. But as peeps like to point out, and wrongly so but maybe in this case its true, that I play a moral game so I rarely used it in either form.