40 réponses à ce sujet

[Ace-of-Spades]

So, I'm sure this idea has been thrown out before, forgive me.

With the death of the gamespy listings and NWN being such an old game, we are always dwindling in numbers of players and they are hardly being replaced these days. The listing of active servers in this forum was definitely a huge help, but will it really bring in many new NWN players?

So I wonder, has anyone thought about getting devs together from many of the most successful PWs on NWN right now and making one PW Superserver? A setting where we could all gather and maintain a nice big population of players? 

Of course some are interested in roleplay, some are interested in hack&slash. A couple servers might be necessary.

Thoughts?

[Pascal Brax]

You mean... one single NWN server with tons of portals connected to the most active server?

Or a gamespy data gathering replacement?

[Borrie BoBaka]

Kind of unnecessary with the existence of the IRC, however if you made a hak-less server that had portals to all the servers who submit an area (or series of areas) related to their server as a way of having an interactive "soft" introduction into their server could be an interesting feature, with also those servers supplying a portal back to this "lobby" server.

Sort of like a bridge for the NWN community as a whole to get together and meet one another and personally recruit and introduce potential players to their world, perhaps even have events where we visit many different PWs similar to the NW Player Appreciation days done last year.

[Ace-of-Spades]

@ Pascal
I was thinking more like a server created to replace all PW RP servers, one to replace all PW Action servers, etc etc. For instance, creating one huge "Forgotten Realms PW" to conglomerate the playerbase.

You're idea is pretty neat too though. Were you basically implying a type of "lobby" server that would connect to the others?

Modifié par Ace-of-Spades, 01 février 2013 - 05:36 .

[Borrie BoBaka]

Ace-of-Spades wrote...

I was thinking more like a server created to replace all PW RP servers, one to replace all PW Action servers, etc etc. For instance, creating one huge "Forgotten Realms PW" to conglomerate the playerbase.

You're idea is pretty neat too though. Were you basically implying a type of "lobby" server that would connect to the others?

Too many servers use different content that conflicts with other servers, has too many of their own systems, rely on unique and special gameplay mechanics supported by a singular use of module properties and also focus on different time frames, settings and community styles. If we made one big Forgotten Realms server to encompass all FR servers, you'd find you still have about only half of the server population, many go with different settings or something new, or their own version of Forgotten realms, so this would potentially alienate many worlds.

Not to mention I'm not sure NWN could fully handle something of that magnitude. 

It's an interesting idea, but not very practical with our current situation.

[Rolo Kipp]

<whistling idly...>

Networked Servers - Large Community
Confederation of Planes and Planets
The (original) Nexus

<...and pointing with his eyes>

[The Amethyst Dragon]

Yeah...I for one would have no interest in working on such a server.  I like that each person/group can come up with something different...consolidating to just one or a few servers would severely hamper creativity.

For instance, I don't really care for the Forgotten Realms or other published world...using my own campaign world means I can make any changes I want without worrying about anyone saying "Wait!  Drow are obsessed with spiders and wield scimitars.  You can't have them worship a snake god and prefer rapiers!" or "That spell can't be altered that way.  The rules say it does exactly this...".

Getting everyone to work on the same thing, with the same systems and same content, to me, would mean abandoning what makes NWN the best game out there...the ability to make the game our own.

[henesua]

I'd work on a Superserver if it was based on Arnheim.

But I do still like this idea. Its one that I proposed back in 2001 with a group of prospective builders.

[KlatchainCoffee]

Borrie BoBaka wrote...

Kind of unnecessary with the existence of the IRC, however if you made a hak-less server that had portals to all the servers who submit an area (or series of areas) related to their server as a way of having an interactive "soft" introduction into their server could be an interesting feature, with also those servers supplying a portal back to this "lobby" server.

Sort of like a bridge for the NWN community as a whole to get together and meet one another and personally recruit and introduce potential players to their world, perhaps even have events where we visit many different PWs similar to the NW Player Appreciation days done last year.

I think I'd go for something like this rather than one Superserver project, for reasons stated by others here.

It might be a good idea to do something about the loss of Gamespy, because as it is, when you log into Multiplayer you see... nothing    = immediate loss of any potential new players for sure.

I have something of an idea, though I don't know how workable it is.

Creating a very simple hak-less server that would basically do Gamespy's job of listing  all the operating servers/online games.

You take something like this: http://neverun.com/n...wnserverlist/   and connect it to a graphical representation inside this server.

Such a module would have a 'room' for each server type, where portal toons would appear and dissappear as servers go on and off line.The name of each server would appear above the portal (similar to PC names), 'examining' it would tell you basic information, clicking on it would either 'transport' you to that other server  or open a dialogue where that is an option. 'Established' servers can have a permanent toon/space that would indicate online/offline status.

Thus if you are running a game you want strangers to be able to join - they would be able to find your server among others as/when it comes online.  Most established servers/players would not find Gamespy loss a total disaster, but any potential new players would.

Assuming such a thing is possible and that Gamespy could be somehow persuaded to add a link inside their now-defunct system to that 'connecting' server which any player trying to enter multiplayer would immediately see, this could of great benefit to the future of NWN-based world building and Role Play.

Thoughts?

[Ace-of-Spades]

Well I was just tossing an idea out there. Very good points have been made. No harm done.

Now this Master Lobby Server idea sounds really cool to me. I just wonder how you'd keep illegal characters from going to servers they shouldn't. Would the portal take you to the character vault/creation screen for that server? At which point you could truly enter the server from there.

[painofdungeoneternal]

It would be good if there was a way to get players there to begin with. I am not sure how used it would be though, since that is the same problem facing just a server - the end user would have to know the ip, then would have to direct connect to it, and hopefully it's actively maintained and not out of date- and hopefully all PWs are listed and not just those favored by the person hosting it - and i know there are 631 PW's for NWN1 right now, I just can't see a player dealing with that many portals in a game, nor a modder maintaining a module like that full time.

There is a flurry of solutions to this, basically everyone running in a hundred directions, and we are ignoring the root issues here.

1. We need a central spot where ALL PW's are listed, with live stats as for number of players. If there are two competing solutions, well if only portions of the PW's are on them, it's pointless, might as well google nwn pw's in google, and manually direct connect.

2. We need to provide easy access to that list for the player.

I am seeing the folks at http://www.nwnx.org with solutions, with a game client mod that makes the listings work just like it used to being worked on by virusman. ( nwncx )

NWN2 already has a nwnx plugin to post server status to the same central API, and the client extender links in with it - once you install it, the multiplayer just seems to work like it used to.

Further there are stand alone apps on the vault to list the servers, and a website listing them, and further it's an open API so you can roll your own tools and apps and still have a centralized authoritative list of servers in a single spot. I am working on my own app, mainly to address the issues on mac's which none of the current solutions are aimed at but which will work on pc's as well.

I would suggest checking if your PW is listed, and if not try to figure out how to get listed ( it's just another avenue of marketing after all - http://www.nwnlist.com/ is just one of the ways to see if you are listed. )

My thought is we wait until virusman finishes his app, then everyone do extensive debugging and testing of it, reporting every little issue until it is perfect ( perhaps adding more features like custom UI's and the sort ), then we make it very clear that to fix gamespy you have to install NWNCX on all the forums, and just get the word out.

[Borrie BoBaka]

 I kind of like a lobby idea more that I think about it, though all it needs is someone who would like to host a server that would operate as this "bridge." 

My initial thoughts on design would be a central hub area with a general open space for players to connect into and interact. In this hub would be billboards that contain links to the major modding sites, such as NWvault, Neverwinter Nexus, Neverwinter connections, etc. From there players may enter a Tavern that is soley focused on interacting with other players, and portals that lead to different neighborhoods (PW Action, PW Story, Roleplay, Social, etc), or they can teleport with using chat commands.

This is the first layer of organizing PWs. From there, if it's still too crowded, you could have thematic neighborhoods sprouting from there. Sci-Fi, Modern, Forgotten Realms, Custom Fantasy, etc. Then players can enter an area dedicated to a certain persistent world, learn about the lore and perhaps engage in a custom quest written by the PW owner and imported into the hub world. 

Now there are some potential problems with this:
Q: Will the character be able to transfer from the Lobby into a Server?
A: Likely not as the server may have different rules while the lobby server may focus on a more meta-sense of the game. If it is possible to switch your chosen character while portaling, then this would be the best option
.
Q: How will players find this server?
A: Advertisement on the major sites will help, also contacting every PW as possible to join in by adding the ability to portal from their server to the lobby server would dramatically drive in new people to the lobby. PWs hosting Meta-events in the Lobby would help bring their members and other members into the lobby to interact. Being able to put in an introductory area into the module may be inspiring for PWs looking for new members.

That's all I've mustered so far, it's an interesting idea, would be a nice thing to explore, though you'll need someone dedicated enough to manage it, which may be an issue. Also pulling the stats of different servers would be difficult but probably do-able. Another idea would be to switch out the portals being physical and add a command to direct connect to a server via it's name or IP into the chat, so players could enter the lobby, then use *connect: 123.456.789.* or *connect wonderful server* to connect to the server they wish. 

Of course this is still a bit flimsy considering the chat system that still works in the GameSpy browser effectively does this job, the only benefits of a lobby would be to combine all the chat rooms and allow players to actually play the game. 

[henesua]

Ace-of-Spades wrote...

Well I was just tossing an idea out there. Very good points have been made. No harm done.

Don't give up on your idea. Its a very good one, but you need a team of folks that want to do it. And you need a set of ground rules for cooperation between the servers.

I can see a few models that would be VERY interesting. Here are some ideas:

• You get a bunch of Roger Zelazny fans that each want to develop their own "shadow" in the Amber universe. This is an interesting idea because each shadow can be whatever you want it to be, and it would be easy to isolate each of them as you don't have to give every character the ability to travel between shadows. You'd have to create rules for which players gain the privilege of being a member of the Amber Family or the Court of Chaos (likely it is only unlocked at Epic levels, and requires an Epic Feat etc...  and something else only available at the server on which they started)
• You take the module X2 Chateau D'Amberville (I have an obsession with the word Amber I guess), and make the Chateau the lobby server - where every player starts for the first time. A small team could do this since all the pieces are defined. Its not open ended, and would have win conditions.
• You each decide to make a country in Forgotten realms. (I actually hate this idea, but what the hell)
• Alternatively you collectively build a world together, and each select regions of it. (I like this idea more, but it would be a nightmare to get people to agree). Although if each player has their own island... this would be manageable.
• Each developer selects a "plane" that they develop (similar to the Amber idea but uses D&D cosmology and restricts all worlds to pure fantasy). "Planes" could be reinterpretted to different models: Underdark server, Cloud Realm Server, Continent One, and Continent Two. Or they could all be countries in Ravenloft. Or you could do Shadow, Ethereal, Material, Hell etc....  The key is that each "realm" has certain barriers to entry. Its not a place you just walk to, but requires that you access it in specific ways. Board a ship to go to the other continent, Shadow walk to get to the Shadow Plane (I am reworking Shadow Dancers to do this instead of hide in plain sight).

This is something I've wanted to do for a very long time.

I was only half being facetious when I said that I'd do this if everyone agreed to do this with Arnheim. What I mean is we'd have to come up with a standard for the HAKs we use that we support ourselves, and a standard for how we structure character design. I've very carefully done this with Arnheim, and would be hardpressed to give up on the special integration of feats and skill and spells and classes that I've created. There is a META level of design that must happen first. classes, Races, Feats, Skills etc....

Then all could move on to the next step of cranking out their collective world.

[Lightfoot8]

I just wonder it it is possiable to hak a server to add a function to Start a new game at the server log in point, as opposed to the taking the current character logged into the game into the new server. if it could be done without client haks most opposition to the Idea would melt away.

Sounds like a good question for V-man

[henesua]

Creativity in project design can also address technical limitations.

[KlatchainCoffee]

My main concern here is that new players will have somewhere to go once they hit that 'Multiplayer' button.

[Pascal Brax]

Lightfoot8 wrote...

I just wonder it it is possiable to hak a server to add a function to Start a new game at the server log in point, as opposed to the taking the current character logged into the game into the new server. if it could be done without client haks most opposition to the Idea would melt away.

Sounds like a good question for V-man

It's actually possible to "force" all NWN players to download a module, launch a multiplayer game with this module and when they login, the module launch an on_enter script that teleport the player to a master/lobby server with portals.

the points is, I don't see anybody willing to maintain a server with 260 portals for 260 server and other PW admins don't see the point to guide their own players to a lobby server that shows them 259 other new server where to play.

So, actually, we have 3 sites: http://neverun.com/nwnserverlist/ and http://www.nwnlist.com and http://www.iscandar.ch that could do almost the same thing.

[Lightfoot8]

Pascal Brax wrote...

Lightfoot8 wrote...

I just wonder it it is possiable to hak a server to add a function to Start a new game at the server log in point, as opposed to the taking the current character logged into the game into the new server. if it could be done without client haks most opposition to the Idea would melt away.

Sounds like a good question for V-man

It's actually possible to "force" all NWN players to download a module, launch a multiplayer game with this module and when they login, the module launch an on_enter script that teleport the player to a master/lobby server with portals.

...

The point is that there is no character change.   If the Porthole could start the New Game at the Log In Point.   Meaning it would force the player to either create a new character or Load one from the vault that is local to the new server.  

So it your answer Yes that can be done,   Or no it can  not be done?  

As far as someone maintaining the server.   There are people who would do it.  

[henesua]

I think the problem is that many are fixated on this proposal as a solution to Gamespy's dropping the ball. The PW Superserver project will not succeed at that goal.

The PW Superserver however taken on its own terms is an amazing idea, and should be taken seriously. This could be a beautiful project, more satisfying for players than the standard faire, and an interesting challenge for the community to take on.

If anyone is interested in stepping forward to participate in this initiative, please make yourselves known. I am more than willing to assist with my expertise in building a multiplayer module (I am nearing completeion of my second PW), and in sharing my expertise with organizing custom content in a comprehensive package that is easier to build with than the standard packages most people work with like CEP. If we spent some time together planning, I would be able to generate a foundation CC package and resources for all to use. AND this would be shared across multiple modules which although linked could develop independently of one another.

In addition I already have a nearly complete PW, that could serve as a foundation for all modules participating in this endeavor.

Please step forward if you are interested. I would like to discuss this. I take this possibility seriously, and am willing to recycle Arnheim into something more D&D generic that we could all use.

Modifié par henesua, 03 février 2013 - 02:26 .

[Borrie BoBaka]

Pascal Brax wrote...
the points is, I don't see anybody willing to maintain a server with 260 portals for 260 server and other PW admins don't see the point to guide their own players to a lobby server that shows them 259 other new server where to play.

I think we've established some pre-concieved notion that we must try to hog all the players we have, when there is a sparse amount of them available playing NWN. In this day in age a lot of players like to mix things up or they get quickly burned out. The most direct result we'd see is a drop in players at any random time but also see more players start to even out across a larger sample size of servers. 

This is also an attempt to try and increase visibility and accessibility to servers that players might enjoy but don't have the opportunity to discover. 

This is not about servers trying to steal players but trying to unify the NWN community more, as we won't be able to continue a free and creative existence if we live in a bunch of cliques. It's an attempt at helping every talent, new or old, to find players on a more unified platform. 

This may also help brand new players get in and get hooked as we all have, further increasing the health of the NWN Playerbase.

The sites are great, but they're just billboards. The module idea allows interactivity to a greater degree among players. And 260 portals isn't hard, many modules are huge compared to that.

But then again all of this is moot if we can't get the game to accept new connections via a portal. Consistency of character won't really help this situation at all.

[henesua]

Borrie BoBaka wrote...
The module idea allows interactivity to a greater degree among players. And 260 portals isn't hard, many modules are huge compared to that.

We don't need an all inclusive solution like that. I think we should discard the idea of a PW Superserver as a game lobby. Baeleos has already done incredible work in this direction.

A PW Superserver however if started from scratch in my view would be an initiative for people to work together using a common set of HAKs and basic game mechanics like skills and feats and spells. From this foundation each server could build itself independently and link up with the Superserver PW. Each member of this initiative would have access to a pool of players greater than a single server could attract alone.

[Borrie BoBaka]

So let me see if I can comprehend this, as I believe I've gotten a bit lost.

What is being proposed is, a large amount of PWs linked together under a common set of content and rulesets, each in their own little "realm", that players can move in between?

[henesua]

Thats the way I interpret PW Superserver. Its an exciting possibility to me.

[edit]
But each PW would not need to be huge.

You could simply host an Adventure Inn at a cross roads between servers if you wanted for example.

Modifié par henesua, 03 février 2013 - 02:48 .

[KlatchainCoffee]

henesua wrote...

If anyone is interested in stepping forward to participate in this initiative, please make yourselves known.

I was actually chatting to Rolo about this a few months back. I'm still trying to finish building my sea journey campaign and see it become a weekly gathering for those who have an itch for immersive RP and for discovering a new continent. HOWEVER I am very keen on this 'Tavern between worlds' (or whichever shape it might take) idea, so I'd be willing to assist in some shape or form.

I have to note that three proposals manifested itself in this thread now:

1) A pulling together of all availiable resources into one giant PW (found to be mostly unteneble as diversity is what most world creators crave).

2) 'Tavern between worlds' - a server between servers where various PWs opt in to participate and players can mingle and travel between different universes. IG it might take the form of a 'dreamworld' - if people want to stay in character and travel differnt worlds in their dreams or Unimatrix Zero of the Brog  in ST.

I agree that there should be less fear of losing players, often exposure to what's out there makes you more appreciative of you 'home server'. And yes, it might help burnout.

Basically I thought this should be done way before the Gamespy thing happened. 


* It would be an opt-in thing by all thsoe wishing to take part and will bring people together in a more creative way.


3) Something whose sole purpose is to replace the function of making every server ran visible from within NWN that Gamespy used to perform, possibly even outdoing it and brininging a new breath of life into NWN in terms of being more friendly and less confusing to the new players.

I wish was more able to extrapolate the viability of fixing the now virtually defunct 'multiplayer' button for any potentially enthusiastic noob that just bought the game, but I honestly believe we should try to at least attempt this.

With my current project I have hopes of attracting a number of people who are entirely new to NWN or even to RP and while loss of Gamespy functionality is not disasterous to such a hand-picked format, I do believe that building a fix will keep the game open to new players and will impact on the future of NWN as a creative medium as a whole.

I think the real question is how hard would this be to achieve and maintain. If it is altogether untenable it might be better to focus efforts elsewhere. If that is not the case, it might well be worth a try.

* This would automatically pick up any server ran in NWN, would have no other function than making all the servers visible again to those trying to log into Multiplayer. There is some scope for helpful information exchange, but otherwise the above would be its only purpose.

[henesua]

Again to be clear. I think the world lobby server as a replacement for gamespy is a waste of time. We're going to have some replacements for gamespy soon. The community is producing some very nice replacements.

The advantage of a PW Superserver in my view is to make it easier for multiple PWs to share players.

What we need is a Custom Content replacement of CEP which is now out of date and unsupported.
AND we need a base module that all participants can build from.

Individual PWs could decide how the links between them work.