43 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarethus]

I honestly haven't done a proper playthrough with Loghain yet and was wondering about this. If you spare him, does he come across as regretful or admitting that he was wrong? 

You see one of my personal minor hangups regarding redemption is that to be redeemed, you have to admit that you were in the wrong in the first place, so this is probably going to influence me deciding to ever let Loghain get his 'redemption'. 

So in light of the above, Does Loghain ever say that it was wrong for him to let the King & their soldiers die, Poison Eamon, sell the elves to slavary etc?

Note Key point: Loghain saying he was hard pressed and had to make the though decision is a no go. That's him trying to justify it and while you can argue whether it was justified or not till the cows come home, its has no bearing on redemption. To be redeemed you have to admit to doing something to be redeemed for.

 

Modifié par Sarethus, 09 janvier 2010 - 03:11 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

The answer to this is mixed. He knows he made the wrong moves, but does he really regret everything? Who can tell?



I for one don't really care if he regrets it or not. That's between him and the Maker.

[AntiChri5]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The answer to this is mixed. He knows he made the wrong moves, but does he really regret everything? Who can tell?

I for one don't really care if he regrets it or not. That's between him and the Maker.

Between him and Maric more like. When they meet up in the Faade Maric will have Words for him.

[ejoslin]

If you can get Loghain to respect you, he will express regrets.

[packardbell]

He made the coup under the assumption there was no Archdemon behind the blight.. when he saw it with his own eyes, he must of.

[ejoslin]

I actually am glad that I spared Loghain and spent time talking to him. Most games he will die, but learning about him, seeing his view on everything, gives the game mcuh more depth. I like that everyone (with the exception of Howe I suppose) is not two-dimensional.

[AntiChri5]

Howe is definately he worst character in game.

[Ulicus]

Perhaps morally. He's a great character as a character, though. I always like wishing him well in the noble origin... I find how taken aback and embarrassed he is to be really a really nice touch. Great bit of VA and direction, there, IMO.

[tallon1982]

The answer about Loghain...It depends on your perspective. Howe is no doubt evil by all accounts regardless of your origin he's an ass.

[Recidiva]

I don't think he does. I recruited him and gave him a fair shake at camp and there were no real answers that I considered heartfelt that indicated regret.



He couldn't answer why I had to rescue Anora from Howe other than to say "You really think I'd kill my only daughter?"



Sir, I'm sorry, but since you've proven yourself willing to kill anyone...yes. I think it's a fair question.



Mostly I got mockery, deflection and more justification. I felt zero guilt feeding him to a dragon and no admiration.

[Enkara the Red]

I recruited Loghain for the sole purpose of having him kill the Archdemon in lieu of flat-out executing him. He remained a jerk for much of the playthrough, but our final conversation gave me a good deal of respect for him.

He may be insane and paranoid, but at least he's not an indecisive whiner.

[Arrtis]

he believes you were unworthy of protecting ferelden till you beat him where he cant trust you with its safety.

So he does what it takes even some really wrong things to protect it.Antivan crows also believed he was the guy to beat the blight till you took down their top assassin.

He doesnt regret it from what i can tell he did everything for ferelden and it was all justified.

[tallon1982]

I refused to recruit him to have him kill the Archdemon. It would make him a hero again...like he needs another title?

[prizm123]

i always kill him because he is so unrepentant and because of the little backstories like the slavers, the human noble being betrayed etc

[BelgarathMTH]

I didn't get an option to spare him because I had Alistair fight him - as a mage, I didn't think I had a chance in heck of beating him in one-on-one combat, and after playing Alistair through that fight, I think my decision was well-justified. Also, I thought it would make sense politically for Alistair's credibility as the new king if he won the duel.



Unfortunately, if you don't fight him yourself, the game does not give you an option to spare him.

[dan107]

He realizes in retrospect that he was wrong about a lot of things, but maintains that he did it for the right reasons given what he knew when he knew it. He's a complicated guy.

[Realmzmaster]

I think it is good story telling that you do not get to decide Loghain fate unless you personally duel him. The winner of the duel is who gets to decide. If you pick Alistair as your champion you should know that Loghain will not come out alive.

Loghain if you get his apporval high enough will show some regret and say he di things the wrong way, but he felt he was doing right by Ferelden.

After you beat him personally you gain his respect. If you have him kill the ArchDemon he looks upon it as a way to redeem himself. You even get a line where you can say you respect him at the end.

[RangerSG]

First of all, he says he was wrong about the Grey Warden if you best him in single combat at the Landsmeet (and I did it with a mage, you're actually given enough space to get off a stun-spell before you're gutted, so you can win it if you have a combat mage with a good variety of root-stun spells). So that to me indicates that he has 'some' regret. He was proven wrong about your ability and willingness to stop the Blight right there.



Second as noted, he was convinced (as was Cailin at the time) that there might not even be a true Blight, and he had good reasons to think that. "There's no sign of dragons in the wilds." No one but the Grey Wardens were acknowledging this was a Blight. The Grey Wardens had conspired against the Ferelden King and contributed to the Orlesian conquest (at least inadvertently by their meddling). So their testimony was suspect to a 'nationalist' like Loghain. When he sees that there IS an archdemon, he admits he was wrong there as well.



Tactics? Loghain is too arrogant to ever admit his 'tactics' were wrong. He has too much history of them being right. And I can't necessarily blame him on that front. He was wrong in his motives and analysis. He admits that. But he did what he believed necessary from his PoV. Much like your PC probably does at some points as well.

[Ulicus]

Loghain concedes that he made "tactical errors" in those exact words, however reluctantly.

[Xandurpein]

The only time you do NOT get to decide Loghain's fate is when Alistair duels him. Any other companion than Alistair will let you decide. It is by the way ridiculously easy to kill him with any mage that has Cone of Cold.

He does have some regret, but as to much he regrets that he was wrong or just regrets that he lost is hard to really know. He's not the type to cry on your shoulder even if he realize he screwed up badly.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 09 janvier 2010 - 09:23 .

[Arrtis]

all i did was glyph of repulsion and staffed him to 0

i was pure spell power blood mage with over 120 spellpower and staff mastery so he went down in less then a min.

[El-Destructo]

I'd just like to take this moment to mention that the story Loghain tells your mabari about his dog made me sad. =(

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Recidiva wrote...

I don't think he does. I recruited him and gave him a fair shake at camp and there were no real answers that I considered heartfelt that indicated regret.

He couldn't answer why I had to rescue Anora from Howe other than to say "You really think I'd kill my only daughter?"

Sir, I'm sorry, but since you've proven yourself willing to kill anyone...yes. I think it's a fair question.

Mostly I got mockery, deflection and more justification. I felt zero guilt feeding him to a dragon and no admiration.

Pretty much, the same thing, I got.

I spared him on one playthrough, and I never got the imptression hed regretted much of anything, except not seeing that my character was the answer ot defeating the blight. I got his approval pretty high, played out all possible convo options, ect. My guess is, is that he's too damned stubborn and pround to admit to anyone, most of all himself, that he was a complete idiot bastard.

If he regrets anything, he sure as hell ain;t saying, and everyting else considered, I'm wondering if he is capable of regret, seeing how he's in the "anything goes to save Ferelden" mentality, regardless of how many suffer.

[Xandurpein]

El-Destructo wrote...

I'd just like to take this moment to mention that the story Loghain tells your mabari about his dog made me sad. =(

Same here. But what really gives me a lump in my throat is when you kill him yourself and he tells Anora how daughters are always six years old in the eyes of their fathers. To close to home as I'm a father myself, I guess.

[Richard21Magnus]

Ah, the classic phrase ... "He who fights monsters should take care not to become that which he fights." (I think I got that right) He loved his country, he would do anything to spare it, but what he didn't do is reflect on the effects on that he loved.



Did he act with Ferelden on his mind? Yes.

Did he think that unpleasant decisions must be made? Yes.

Did he think if said decisions were the only option? No.



He was a brilliant general, but he did not have the wisdom to rule. THAT'S where he faultered, and became far worse than any threat to Ferelden ever was. What he intended was good, but the ends justify the means. After being spared, I think he finally looked and saw what he truely did (if you can become good friends with him). So yes, I think he did realize and regret what he had done.