404 réponses à ce sujet

[billy the squid]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Equal opportunity for boobs AND booty... also they won't make lots of female versions of existing characters because it wastes de moniez, I like my DLC free thanks.

 

Guys have booties too.

You humans are all sexist!

But lady booty is better! 

 

Debatable and largely subjective. (Depends on preference).

Lies and slander!

 

For some people, well shaped pecs > boobs as well. 

D: You, you sir are a blight! 

 

Nope! I'm just fair to both sexes. 

There can be no fairness on the net. Only mindless polarisation. Your balanced point has no place here!

[Tiamatshade]

MoosenLoosen wrote...

You know, if anyone in this thread actually respected women as a whole and saw women as equals, they wouldn't be feeling the need to dispute these perfectly reasonable requests.

Women are not 'boobs' and 'booty', women are people. They may be attractive people or unattractive people, but it's not their responsibility to entertain you, jiggle in your face, or even pay any attention to you. If another man were to expect this from you, how would you feel? You'd think he was an idiot.
Unfortunately, some of you are incredibly far gone from seeing other sapient beings as being more than walking vaginas, and would most likely benefit from a swift kick in the shins from mother dearest. I'd be happy to call her for you, just in case she can't hear you from the basement.

Making an attempt to respect another human being isn't going to make your pencil peen of a personality any worse than it already is.
biower, lock pls.

If you actually read some of the responses, maybe it'd be less offensive. I won't lie, I play my FQI over other sniper kits because I'm a Talimancer. That does not, however, make me someone who views women as booty and sex objects. I'd take offense to that.

It's clear there's a lot of discussion remaining here.

[Serenity87HUN]

Heldarion wrote...

 I noticed something.

If a game is good, guys will play it, no matter the gender of the characters they have to use. Guys evidently like female characters, but do not usually go out of their way to demand more of them.

(Some?) Girls, apparently, just want to play girls, no matter the game and are pretty vocal about it.

 

To me, that sounds like 2 things that aren't exactly on the same axis.

The "some" phrase is valid; I'm a girl, and don't care about the character's gender. Although I understand that some may find it easier to relate to a same gender character, I don't understand the hype about it.

[billy the squid]

darkpassenger2342 wrote...

Taritu wrote...


Here's the rule for novels: women will read books with male or female protagonists.  Men will read books with female protags only if they are highly sexualized or if they are action-babes.  This is well understood in the industry.

you gotta be kidding me.
this is as bad as any of the claims that derail these threads.

/commence headeskbanging

[stysiaq]

I don't have an "obsession", I just think that serious female characters are too rare in video games in general, and that should change imho.

Therefore I'd love to play a female character which wouldn't always be mentioned along with her lower back in the same sentence, like female Quarians. Female Turian/Krogan characters would cut it.

[Rebel_Raven]

Cyonan wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...
You said it yourself. They're casters. I'm tired of casters on so many levels, and the bulk of the female roster are casters. Bioware just keeps adding more, and more casters, too.

I'm not really knocking their performance. Not intentionally. They're great at what they do, and I gave props on the inventive combination of old powers, though not so much on the edit of huntress' tac cloak which was made to correct a mistake, but there's a distinct lack of variety in what they do, I find.

I'm just tired of doing what they do, bluntly, coz it's about all I get to do in playing female characters. What they do, they do, arguably, better than other casters, but they're casters.

And most women are flimsy. Some are above normal in durability, but that oft requires a lot of power spam, close proximity to enemies that have shields, and in general relies on cooldowns, and so on.

I'm just not going to be happy until Bioware stops being hung up on giving us female casters, and offers up some variety.

You've nailed it on the head early, and late in your post. None of the women are on the council of weapon masters, nor are any of them Krogard tough. Long and short of it, that's what's going to bother me until Bioware stops relying on wmen being casters.

Their performance can certainly be up there, but there's too many conditions on them being up there for the most part.

Well, you did say their performance wasn't spectacular =P

I will give you that the Valkyrie doesn't do anything new, as she is a more durable Fury. I'd say that the Huntress is a pretty unique spin on the iconic Tactical Cloak, however.

The majority of characters in the game are rather flimsy when it comes to Gold/Platinum. The exceptions consisting mostly of Vanguards and a few characters here and there in the other classes. The increased durability of the heavy races just don't mean as much when they can't dodge and enemies mostly take them to shield gate in 1 burst anyway.

Yes the men have more, but it is not like the women are without durable characters.

The only reason that the Human Soldier is not on the council is because she doesn't have accuracy boosts. I would argue that she is actually better than the Turian Soldier(honestly, I'd be tempted to call her the best Soldier in the game), but she cannot make every weapon good so she doesn't make the list. The ones that she does use well however, she annihilates the enemy with. No other character can fire the Typhoon without stopping to reload it.

The Quarian Female and Human Female Infiltrators are also very potent with a wide range of weaponry, primarily Sniper Rifles and Shotguns but a couple of Assault Rifles as well.

I get that you want more tough and weapon platform females, but refusing to acknowledge current ones(mainly in the weapons users category) will only weaken your position in my opinion. Men outnumber the women in this regard, but the women still exist.

Sorry, the guys set the bar really high in 2 areas. Weapon synergy, and durability.  Compared to them, I don't really see the female roster as spectacular in those regards.

Can't remember the last time people have sought to nerf a female character with any longevity, or vehemence, yet some people still want the TGI nerfed, and he just came out not that long ago. Lets not forget the ever present GI people complain about or praise. Like ya said, there's the council of weapon masters. They set the bar high in weapons use.

I don't see why a destroyer, or a guy with marksman can't fire a typhoon nonstop since they all have powers that refil the magazine. I might've missed something?

Yeah, female infiltrators are good with weapons. Sadly it's all for a few seconds, then 3 seconds as cloak cools down. They don't really have the durability to be in a fight so much in between all that cloaking and shooting. Spamming cloak to get shots off, sticking behind cover coz you'll be dead in moments otherwise.

Human Soldier's durable, yeah, but relying on cooldowns to abuse adrenaline rush? Human soldier is the only woman with adrenaline rush, too. Plus there's surviving long enough to fire the typhoon without reloading.

Valkyrie's durable, but relying on being near enemies who have shields to be more durable than a base human sentinel?

Like i said, they can get up there, but it takes a fair bit more to get them there. Yes, the women are capable, but they're not near the benchmarks guys have set save in being casters where they excel. Even still, flamer's pretty impressive if you wanna call it a caster power. Really gratifying really soon.

We're kinda going around in circles.

Acyl wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

I get that you want more tough and weapon platform females, but refusing to acknowledge current ones(mainly in the weapons users category) will only weaken your position in my opinion. Men outnumber the women in this regard, but the women still exist.

I'm also curious as to how tough is tough enough under this definition. I mean, yeah, the Krogan Vanguard is the gold standard of durability, but it's not like any of the male kits match the Kroguard in sheer tankiness. Realistically, we're not likely to get anything that can match a Kroguard, so what are we talking here? Turian Ghost Stimpack-popping level durability? Vorcha Bloodlust regen-level recovery?

Any and all of the above? Still really want krogard durability though. Having enough shields, and health to take what'd kill most people is nice.

Heldarion wrote...

I noticed something.

If a game is good, guys will play it, no matter the gender of the characters they have to use. Guys evidently like female characters, but do not usually go out of their way to demand more of them.

(Some?) Girls, apparently, just want to play girls, no matter the game and are pretty vocal about it.



To me, that sounds like 2 things that aren't exactly on the same axis.

I've played Red Dead Redemption for more than the fact that you can be a woman in MP. Marston had a grand story, and the world was pretty unique. Shame the multiplayer world wasn't as rich, though.
I've played GTA 4, GTA Vice City, games where you had to be a guy to eventually play a woman like Resident Evil 5, and NBA Jam, etc.

A great character, world, or mechanics can make a game regardless of gender.
A good game's a good game.

That doesn't change my preferrence in playing women though. Asking Bioware to take my preferences into consideration is a battle I think I can win. Far more than asking for playable women in CoD, or Modern Warfare. 

I can't be egalitarian and say I don't care about the gender of the played character though. I've played a lot of guys. It's to the point I enjoy a break from that greatly. I can play as a guy if it suits me, though.

And honestly, I'd like it if I could play as a woman in a good game as opposed to just any game. I have a preference towards good games, too!

I figure guys get the most of the protagonist roles so guys aren't as bothered to play as a woman now and then in some cases. It's understandable. An occassional change to things isn't bad.
I figure it's a similar case in mass effect with the male dominated roster.

[Heldarion]

MoosenLoosen wrote...

You know, if anyone in this thread actually respected women as a whole and saw women as equals, they wouldn't be feeling the need to dispute these perfectly reasonable requests.

Disputing what? Thread didn't start as a request of any sort, much less reasonable. What most people in the thread seem to be advocating is that women shouldn't be treated preferentially.

MoosenLoosen wrote...

Women are not 'boobs' and 'booty', women are people. They may be attractive people or unattractive people, but it's not their responsibility to entertain you, jiggle in your face, or even pay any attention to you. If another man were to expect this from you, how would you feel? You'd think he was an idiot.

Yup, this is pretty much how we treat all the trolls on BSN. Male or female.

MoosenLoosen wrote...

Unfortunately, some of you are incredibly far gone from seeing other sapient beings as being more than walking vaginas,

Just like men tend to be overgeneralized as walking dicks?
Equality for all 

and would most likely benefit from a swift kick in the shins from mother dearest. I'd be happy to call her for you, just in case she can't hear you from the basement.

Here comes another (over)generalization.

Making an attempt to respect another human being isn't going to make your pencil peen of a personality any worse than it already is.

Respect has to be earned. Selfishness does not respect earn.

biower, lock pls.

biower pls no

This is too funny.

Modifié par Heldarion, 01 février 2013 - 10:50 .

[Tokenusername]

Heldarion wrote...

 I noticed something.

If a game is good, guys will play it, no matter the gender of the characters they have to use. Guys evidently like female characters, but do not usually go out of their way to demand more of them.

(Some?) Girls, apparently, just want to play girls, no matter the game and are pretty vocal about it.

 

To me, that sounds like 2 things that aren't exactly on the same axis.

People don't usually complain about game where the playable character is an individual seperate from the player. This is because you are experiencing the story based around an existing character. This differs when it comes to multiplayer (or RPG) games where the player is supposed to project onto the character. Women often complain that they can't really associate with any particular characters when they are all male. Men don't complain about playing as female characters because there is always to option to go back to a male, and playing as a female is always an optional perspective, not a forced decision.

Try to make a list of any kind of game that allows for playing as multiple characters, that one has no playable females, and another that has no playable males. Undoubtly the former list massivly outweighs the latter list, that is if you were even able to think of anything to add to it. Now of the latter list, remove anything that hyper-sexualize its characters, or uses its all female cast as a gimmick.
If anything occupied that list it is probably gone.

Modifié par Tokenusername, 01 février 2013 - 10:53 .

[Dragon_Claw]

Oh hey, another thread where men and women sees themselves victimised in modern day society. Just what the BSN needs.  

Modifié par Dragon_Claw, 01 février 2013 - 10:52 .

[Tiamatshade]

I haven't seen mention of the N7 Fury as a good example of what a human woman can dish out... they kick ass, really. Maybe she's flimsy, sure, but she can teleport.

Maybe you haven't met the Fury yet. Or maybe it's not enough. I can't help with either =X

[Boog_89]

Breasts.

[Rebel_Raven]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

I personally think the Hollywood cold tough gal chick is a very boring and overused stereotype in modern entertainment.

Pretty sure it started with Ripley in Alien and she made such an impression that everyone just copied from then on.

It's probably why I'm not a big fan of Jennifer Hale's voice acting in ME.

I agree with this, honestly.

It kinda describes a lot of the women in ME MP, no?
Where's the woman laughing coz she blew the head off an enemy? Or yelling something rude as she hucks a grenade? Generally being happy about being on the battle field?

Where the non-supermodel women? I.E.  female Krogans who's bodies don't really conform to what huamnity would imagine a super model to be?

[billy the squid]

MoosenLoosen wrote...

You know, if anyone in this thread actually respected women as a whole and saw women as equals, they wouldn't be feeling the need to dispute these perfectly reasonable requests.
Women exist, therefore it is logical for them to exist within a game - much more logical than mass effect fields and the asari mating process.

Women are not 'boobs' and 'booty', women are people. They may be attractive people or unattractive people, but it's not their responsibility to entertain you, jiggle in your face, or even pay any attention to you. If another man were to expect this from you, how would you feel? You'd think he was an idiot.
Unfortunately, some of you are incredibly far gone from seeing other sapient beings as being more than walking vaginas, and would most likely benefit from a swift kick in the shins from mother dearest. I'd be happy to call her for you, just in case she can't hear you from the basement.

Making an attempt to respect another human being isn't going to make your pencil peen of a personality any worse than it already is.
biower, lock pls.

Sorry I was thinking about someone in paticular's booty, what were you saying? I didn't quite catch it.

[stysiaq]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

I personally think the Hollywood cold tough gal chick is a very boring and overused stereotype in modern entertainment.

Pretty sure it started with Ripley in Alien and she made such an impression that everyone just copied from then on.

It's probably why I'm not a big fan of Jennifer Hale's voice acting in ME.

not as overused as the 'hot gal with huge boobs and ass' stereotype. Especially in video games.

I'd still take a serious not-necessarily-hot "Ripley" over any character that only encourages some neckbeards to drool all over them.

That being said, my favorite female charater in VG is Jade (Beyond Good & Evil). She doesn't fit in any of these two stereotypes.

[spudspot]

In this case, I guess because that would be something 'new'. I mean, before we had the playable Geth, people asked for playable Geth. Before we had playable male Quarians, people asked for these.

Now we don't have female Turians, people ask for it to happen.

Heck, people even asked for Volus just because they weren't there.

Anybody who seriously finds him/herself discriminated by the gender inequality of the available kits must have a very hard life, nothing BW can do about that.

[mumba]

Someone had to do it. xD

[Darth Malice113]

Boog_89 wrote...

Breasts.

Interesting............ tell me more.

[Heldarion]

Tokenusername wrote...

Heldarion wrote...

 I noticed something.

If a game is good, guys will play it, no matter the gender of the characters they have to use. Guys evidently like female characters, but do not usually go out of their way to demand more of them.

(Some?) Girls, apparently, just want to play girls, no matter the game and are pretty vocal about it.

 

To me, that sounds like 2 things that aren't exactly on the same axis.

People don't usually complain about game where the playable character is an individual seperate from the player. This is because you are experiencing the story based around an existing character. This differs when it comes to multiplayer (or RPG) games where the player is supposed to project onto the character. Women often complain that they can't really associate with any particular characters when they are all male. Men don't complain about playing as female characters because there is always to option to go back to a male, and playing as a female is always an optional perspective, not a forced decision.

Try to make a list of any kind of game that allows for playing as multiple characters, that one has no playable females, and another that has no playable males. Undoubtly the former list massivly outweighs the latter list, that is if you were even able to think of anything to add to it. Now of the latter list, remove anything that hyper-sexualize its characters, or uses its all female cast as a gimmick.
If anything occupied that list it is probably gone.

Guess what, my games of preference used to be strategy games, where gender means absolutely nothing. I look in this manner at all other games (of which I have played precious few). 

[OneMore1968]

Not an obsession. However when BW introduced the game there had been few titles of this calibre where you were able to play a strong female lead. All we are asking is for more variety in the MP. And I have played as both Male and female Soldier with exactly the same setup and I die slightly easier with the female. I dunno if the figures are identical behind the scenes, maybe someone could clarify, with facts?

there is a difference in a male choosing to play as a female in a game where both are offered than a female having little choice/no choice in the characters you can play as. Dont forget, for around 15 years there were no female chars at all, period.

Women get sick of being thought of in the terms that are used on here.  Yeah we know how often blokes think of certain topics.  But if they exaggerated the male crotch of male ME3 chars, I still wouldnt be that fussed at playing them.  Whereas the opposite seems to hold true for males.  I guess women are just a little deeper than that, huh? 

And if some of the views held on here are what u actually believe of women. Well...I feel sorry for u tbh.

Modifié par Carlina, 01 février 2013 - 11:09 .

[Rebel_Raven]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Rebel_Raven wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

I personally think the Hollywood cold tough gal chick is a very boring and overused stereotype in modern entertainment.

Pretty sure it started with Ripley in Alien and she made such an impression that everyone just copied from then on.

It's probably why I'm not a big fan of Jennifer Hale's voice acting in ME.

I agree with this, honestly.

It kinda describes a lot of the women in ME MP, no?
Where's the woman laughing coz she blew the head off an enemy? Or yelling something rude as she hucks a grenade? Generally being happy about being on the battle field?

Where the non-supermodel women? I.E.  female Krogans who's bodies don't really conform to what huamnity would imagine a super model to be?

 

Well Tali and Liara were both good examples of females NOT portrayed in that light. That's why I liked them so much. 

I like Tali. She made me want to play as a Quarian since ME1!
She has sass, and personality. She has depth in history, issues, and has more options for grounds on which a person can relate. She has phobias! She's a welcome character, indeed! Of course I find her attractive. Her mystique, her accent, she's cute physically despite being in that suit.

I kinda prefer Aria over Liara though as far as Asari go. It's not that swearing to be cool thing Aria does (But it is kinda cool. ), it's the way she carries herself, and there's some depth, and mystery, and the uncommon rage among female characters. She's not the nicest woman. Anti-heroes/anti-villains depending on how you see her morality is pretty awesome.

I miss Jack, too. Her shouts, and brute force approach, and personality are memorable to me. She wasn't perfect, but that's what made her great, IMO.

[MoosenLoosen]

Tiamatshade wrote...

MoosenLoosen wrote...

You know, if anyone in this thread actually respected women as a whole and saw women as equals, they wouldn't be feeling the need to dispute these perfectly reasonable requests.

Women are not 'boobs' and 'booty', women are people. They may be attractive people or unattractive people, but it's not their responsibility to entertain you, jiggle in your face, or even pay any attention to you. If another man were to expect this from you, how would you feel? You'd think he was an idiot.
Unfortunately, some of you are incredibly far gone from seeing other sapient beings as being more than walking vaginas, and would most likely benefit from a swift kick in the shins from mother dearest. I'd be happy to call her for you, just in case she can't hear you from the basement.

Making an attempt to respect another human being isn't going to make your pencil peen of a personality any worse than it already is.
biower, lock pls.

If you actually read some of the responses, maybe it'd be less offensive. I won't lie, I play my FQI over other sniper kits because I'm a Talimancer. That does not, however, make me someone who views women as booty and sex objects. I'd take offense to that.

It's clear there's a lot of discussion remaining here.

I assumed I was quite clear on the fact that I'm not referring to everyone in the thread. I'm not generalising. I'm pointing out a problematic attitude that pervades BSN.

Heldarion wrote...

MoosenLoosen wrote...

You know, if anyone in this thread actually respected women as a whole and saw women as equals, they wouldn't be feeling the need to dispute these perfectly reasonable requests.

Disputing what? Thread didn't start as a request of any sort, much less reasonable. What most people in the thread seem to be advocating is that women shouldn't be treated preferentially.

MoosenLoosen wrote...

Women are not 'boobs' and 'booty', women are people. They may be attractive people or unattractive people, but it's not their responsibility to entertain you, jiggle in your face, or even pay any attention to you. If another man were to expect this from you, how would you feel? You'd think he was an idiot.

Yup, this is pretty much how we treat all the trolls on BSN. Male or female.

MoosenLoosen wrote...

Unfortunately, some of you are incredibly far gone from seeing other sapient beings as being more than walking vaginas,

Just like men tend to be overgeneralized as walking dicks?
Equality for all

and would most likely benefit from a swift kick in the shins from mother dearest. I'd be happy to call her for you, just in case she can't hear you from the basement.


Here comes another (over)generalization.

Making an attempt to respect another human being isn't going to make your pencil peen of a personality any worse than it already is.


Respect has to be earned. Selfishness does not respect earn.

biower, lock pls.


biower pls no

This is too funny.

In case you couldn't figure it out, I was referencing the numerous and frequent requests for female characters.
Female characters which are not dropped into canon simply as ****** material are strongly outnumbered in video games by male characters with depth and reasons they are who they are. 
Women are treated as less than in a way that makes it look like they're being given preferential treatment. The ladies I know don't need a freaking crutch. They just want someone to identify with.

No, I do not see us everywhere generalised as walking dicks. I see women's value consistently boiled down to her sex appeal and her ability to entertain a man, while we are taught that we are entitled to that. I have never been generalised as a walking dick in a way that is comparable to the manner in which women are reduced to objects.

So, when you see a stranger, you feel that in order to show him common courtesy and recognise him as a human being, he must first 'earn' his right to have you not wipe your snot on him, step on his heels in line and blow smoke in his face? No. You'd probably be arrested for being a public nuisance.

Modifié par MoosenLoosen, 01 février 2013 - 11:08 .