152 réponses à ce sujet

[xBUMMx]

spudspot wrote...

The thing is that RCing adds a little more realism. In a perfectly realistic game, reloading your gun could take any amount of time, only depending on how 'skilled' you are at reloading. (Hint: you would be able to simulate the difference between this guy and somebody who reloads a gun for the first time in his life, without any sort of instruction.)

Now the way they've implemented at least two different reload speeds might not be the apex of innovation, but I'll take it over some minigame any day.

Simply because the alternatives either slows the gameplay down or are just as much of a meaningless task you have to fulfill to reload faster as the current form is. (Though I'd love to be proven wrong on this one, i.e. somebody gives me an alternative to just pushing buttons at the right time or pushing them fast enough.)

I really hope you're not talking about Gears. Active reloads do not slow it down at all, it is not meaningless because on almost every gun a perfect active reload will give you some type of bonus other than crazy fast reloads. It's not even that hard to do and is really just an extra button press. After a while it becomes second nature and you can do it without looking. Active reloads are reload cancels with an actual mechanic behind it and bonuses for doing it right. 

Reload cancels may not give anything special other than reload speeds, but it is practically the same thing, an extra button press, but it doesn't really matter when you do it, just has be when the gun is in the latter half of the reload.

[LAZERAK47]

If the enemies played fair, then we can talk

[GallowsPole]

Blind2Society wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

Blind2Society wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

Sure. Then companies shouldn't waste all their money on realistic weapons and just make a game, with guns. And only charge me $25 for it with all the money they would save.

So Mass Effect should have cost less because of the kishock and other such weapons?

I was just making an over the top argument. There are a lot of reasons why games cost as much as they cost. However, if I purchase a game for its military refinements and realism, that's what I expect when I pay my 60 bucks. I know its just a game and not a simulation, but still, there should be a high expectation for realism if that's what the company markets towards.

Well, if you really want to talk realism, or lore in this case, cycling an action makes no sense on the weapons in this game. And reload canceling just cancels cycling the action. So if you think about it, reload canceling actually is more lore fitting than not.

Fitting? Sure. I never argued anything with regards to lore or the inclusion of the mechanic for that reason, simply some mechanics shouldnt have been included in this particular game or any present ones for that matter. Game devs should find other ways to reward the more savvy players then a 15 year old mechanic. To this day I suck at fighting games cause I cant pull off half of the combos because of all the button presses. In this game, its just one. Or you have the ability to toss grenade after grenade. Etc Etc.

Im trying really hard not to single out RC, cause its not the only thing. 

Modifié par GallowsPole, 01 février 2013 - 02:28 .

[spudspot]

xBUMMx wrote...

I really hope you're not talking about Gears. Active reloads do not slow it down at all, it is not meaningless because on almost every gun a perfect active reload will give you some type of bonus other than crazy fast reloads. It's not even that hard to do and is really just an extra button press. After a while it becomes second nature and you can do it without looking. Active reloads are reload cancels with an actual mechanic behind it and bonuses for doing it right. 

Reload cancels may not give anything special other than reload speeds, but it is practically the same thing, an extra button press, but it doesn't really matter when you do it, just has be when the gun is in the latter half of the reload.

Well, I probably should've clarified that I'm not much of a gamer, the ME series is the first thing I've played since D2 >10 years ago.

So take my last paragraph as an honest question, I really don't know if there are superior mechanics implemented in other games. Though I assume that they are in gears of war.

[DullahansXMark]

Think of it this way.

With long-animation reloads, all your character is doing is just jamming the thermal clip in there and making sure it's snug. By reload-canceling, you just put the clip in. And then forget about it.

And if that's not good enough, think of it another way: where the hell did my guys get a Collector Sniper Rifle?

Modifié par DullahansXMark, 01 février 2013 - 02:27 .

[xBUMMx]

spudspot wrote...

xBUMMx wrote...
I really hope you're not talking about Gears. Active reloads do not slow it down at all, it is not meaningless because on almost every gun a perfect active reload will give you some type of bonus other than crazy fast reloads. It's not even that hard to do and is really just an extra button press. After a while it becomes second nature and you can do it without looking. Active reloads are reload cancels with an actual mechanic behind it and bonuses for doing it right. 

Reload cancels may not give anything special other than reload speeds, but it is practically the same thing, an extra button press, but it doesn't really matter when you do it, just has be when the gun is in the latter half of the reload.

Well, I probably should've clarified that I'm not much of a gamer, the ME series is the first thing I've played since D2 >10 years ago.

So take my last paragraph as an honest question, I really don't know if there are superior mechanics implemented in other games. Though I assume that they are in gears of war.

It's basically an actual mechanic for reload canceling. If you know what you're doing, you can reload a whole lot faster. If you're good enough (which really isn't that hard) you can even get bonuses, such as: extra damage(most guns), longer range, bigger explosion radius, extra headshot damage(although that was just the Gears 2 Longshot).

[Blind2Society]

GallowsPole wrote...

Game devs should find other ways to reward the more savvy players then a 15 year old mechanic.

If it aint broke dont fix it

[Kinom001]

And yet I can reload cancel in the single player campaign as well, thus the continuity isn't broken.

[spudspot]

xBUMMx wrote...

It's basically an actual mechanic for reload canceling. If you know what you're doing, you can reload a whole lot faster. If you're good enough (which really isn't that hard) you can even get bonuses, such as: extra damage(most guns), longer range, bigger explosion radius, extra headshot damage(although that was just the Gears 2 Longshot).

Just checked a vid on youtube, are you referring to that bar with some highlighted areas and that point I assume to be the point for the 'perfect reload'?

That would surely be a good thing in terms of telling the player about that mechanic and having more than just two distinct reload times.

Modifié par spudspot, 01 février 2013 - 02:33 .

[pistolols]

adrest4 wrote...
So I do not and will not Reload Cancel because I find it a cheap move that is not game-consistent.

you don't even have a choice, really.  you will end up doing it anyway.  if you play as an infiltrator, for instance, i think it would be quite hard to never have your cloak cancel your reload during the intensity of combat.  in fact that is how i accidently discovered reload canceling back in the demo (i never noticed it in ME2).

[xBUMMx]

spudspot wrote...

xBUMMx wrote...

It's basically an actual mechanic for reload canceling. If you know what you're doing, you can reload a whole lot faster. If you're good enough (which really isn't that hard) you can even get bonuses, such as: extra damage(most guns), longer range, bigger explosion radius, extra headshot damage(although that was just the Gears 2 Longshot).

Just checked a vid on youtube, are you referring to that bar with some highlighted areas and that point I assume to be the point for the 'perfect reload'?

That would surely be a good thing in terms of telling the player about that mechanic and having more than just two distinct reload times.

yeah, thats the active reload

there are technically four reload times I Gears. Perfect: the white bar, Active: the gray area, failed: the rest of it, and you can just let it do it's thing.

[SofaJockey]

DullahansXMark wrote...

Think of it this way.

With long-animation reloads, all your character is doing is just jamming the thermal clip in there and making sure it's snug. By reload-canceling, you just put the clip in. And then forget about it.

And if that's not good enough, think of it another way: where the hell did my guys get a Collector Sniper Rifle?

From a dead Collector?

[xBUMMx]

pistolols wrote...

adrest4 wrote...
So I do not and will not Reload Cancel because I find it a cheap move that is not game-consistent.

you don't even have a choice, really.  you will end up doing it anyway.  if you play as an infiltrator, for instance, i think it would be quite hard to never have your cloak cancel your reload during the intensity of combat.  in fact that is how i accidently discovered reload canceling back in the demo (i never noticed it in ME2).

i never really "noticed" it, I just figured that once the HUD said there were bullets in my gun I could do what I wanted. I've always done it if it was possible, ME3, CoD, whatever game. I never really knew it was a big deal until I came to the BSN

[xBUMMx]

adrest4 wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

Think of it this way.

With long-animation reloads, all your character is doing is just jamming the thermal clip in there and making sure it's snug. By reload-canceling, you just put the clip in. And then forget about it.

And if that's not good enough, think of it another way: where the hell did my guys get a Collector Sniper Rifle?

From a dead Collector?

which one?

[SofaJockey]

pistolols wrote...

adrest4 wrote...
So I do not and will not Reload Cancel because I find it a cheap move that is not game-consistent.

you don't even have a choice, really.  you will end up doing it anyway.  if you play as an infiltrator, for instance, i think it would be quite hard to never have your cloak cancel your reload during the intensity of combat.  in fact that is how i accidently discovered reload canceling back in the demo (i never noticed it in ME2).

Oh, I hadn't thought about that (!) Thanks pistolols for the thought.
So as long as you follow a shot with a power use that coincidentally 'prepares' the next shot,
then you are legitimately playing skillfully. Yes, that works.

I was having a problem with a 'trick' button-press, but what you said is good.

[ISHYGDDT]

Other things that are immersion breaking:

The most accurate full-auto assault rifles have visible spread even at ~15 meters: present day assault rifles are accurate to about 1 minute of arc (~1 inch at 100 meters). Full-auto assault rifles cannot be fired in semi-auto or 3-5 round bursts

Asari and Drell run around on different planets and moons (lol) with exposed body parts and without any breathing apparatus.

You get a damage boost from being invisible.

Some characters/banshee can phase through solid objects (that's not the way mass effect's pseudo-physics works)

Enemies simply appear on the map, with no evidence of ingress often right before your eyes.

The announcer announces that there's no time for areal bombardment when you're playing on Reactor/Glacier

Conclusion: Mass Effect 3 might be a f***ing game.

Modifié par ISHYGDDT, 01 février 2013 - 02:57 .

[DullahansXMark]

adrest4 wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

Think of it this way.

With long-animation reloads, all your character is doing is just jamming the thermal clip in there and making sure it's snug. By reload-canceling, you just put the clip in. And then forget about it.

And if that's not good enough, think of it another way: where the hell did my guys get a Collector Sniper Rifle?

From a dead Collector?

What kind? That fabled Collector Marksman?

[BridgeBurner]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

Other things that are immersion breaking:

The most accurate full-auto assault rifles have visible spread even at ~15 meters: present day assault rifles are accurate to about 1 minute of arc (~1 inch at 100 meters). Full-auto assault rifles cannot be fired in semi-auto or 3-5 round bursts

Asari and Drell run around on different planets and moons (lol) with exposed body parts and without any breathing apparatus.

You get a damage boost from being invisible.

Some characters/banshee can phase through solid objects (that's not the way mass effect's pseudo-physics works)

Enemies simply appear on the map, with no evidence of ingress often right before your eyes.

The announcer announces that there's no time for areal bombardment when you're playing on Reactor/Glacier

Conclusion: Mass Effect 3 might be a f***ing game.

Shotguns too. Shotguns in video games tend to have about 100x the pellet spread they have IRL.

[gisle]

I consider ME non-canon anyway...

And N7 Requisition is a lottery, that says how serious the multiplayer is lore-wise. It's fun, though, but that's about it. The only canon it expands on are settings and architecture, which is nice.

Modifié par Gisle-Aune, 01 février 2013 - 03:07 .

[SofaJockey]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

...Enemies simply appear on the map, with no evidence of ingress often right before your eyes.

Don't they at least try to appear behind a crate/wall?
That's at least showing some consideration?

<_<

[FataliTensei]

Gears has active reload that gives you magic ammo. Mass effect lets you cancel out the last part of animation.

They're mechanics and honestly after Mass Effect 3's half assed story why does anyone even care about lore anymore. This game breaks so much of what has been established already. Just enjoy the cool powers and weapons, that's what this game is about.

[Blitzkrieg_33]

inb4 GallowsPo....oh wait.

OP, not sure if someone brought up this point, but wouldn't highly trained soldiers have a faster reload time than new recruits? This could easily be applied in game by using the reload cancel. Just saying.

[Captain J. Sunshine]

 This is why I hate lore it ruins the game for people who just want to have fun. 

[SofaJockey]

Blitzkrieg_33 wrote...

inb4 GallowsPo....oh wait.

OP, not sure if someone brought up this point, but wouldn't highly trained soldiers have a faster reload time than new recruits? This could easily be applied in game by using the reload cancel. Just saying.

Yes that could work - I'm softening up to the idea of using other powers as a legitimate cancelling technique... It was the non-immersive 'trick' that was bothering me.

[Blind2Society]

adrest4 wrote...

Yes that could work - I'm softening up to the idea of using other powers as a legitimate cancelling technique... It was the non-immersive 'trick' that was bothering me.

And what say you about the bit I mentioned earlier?

Blind2Society wrote...

Well, if you really want to talk realism, or lore in this case, cycling an action makes no sense on the weapons in this game. And reload canceling just cancels cycling the action. So if you think about it, reload canceling actually is more lore fitting than not.

Modifié par Blind2Society, 01 février 2013 - 03:21 .