121 réponses à ce sujet

[Athenau]

HBC Dresden wrote...

^ I don't think it is persistent (I could be wrong though). Not many people are talking about it, so it's hard to get good info on this.

It's unclear.  According to this:

One of the things the devs said in the MP forum was they were applying some mp balance changes in the patch, which he said was to reduce the server load IIRC (bc balance changes are in a hotfix)... but he was somewhat vague.

So instead of a pushing a year's worth of balance changes every time you join, they're just going to push the deltas from the latest (post-patch) changes.  So either they'll need a similar consolidation patch every few months, or they're going to cache future hotfixes on the client side.  Still, that doesn't really explain why SP got the updates applied as well (not that I'm complaining), since there's nothing preventing them from maintaining two sets of coalesced data separately.

[capn233]

Athenau wrote...

So instead of a pushing a year's worth of balance changes every time you join, they're just going to push the deltas from the latest (post-patch) changes.  So either they'll need a similar consolidation patch every few months, or they're going to cache future hotfixes on the client side.  Still, that doesn't really explain why SP got the updates applied as well (not that I'm complaining), since there's nothing preventing them from maintaining two sets of coalesced data separately.

For MP yes, they store less data in the hotfix, which is why they did that.  So now you only have to download the changes since the past from their server when you start MP.

For SP no, the updated stats are in the last patch files.  Weirdly they did not overrite the values in coalesced, they are replaced from the patch files when you start the game.  That is why if you look at weapon / power stats in coalesced they haven't changed, and yet in game they have changed.

They don't actually store separate info for SP and MP weapons and powers with the exception of things that are SP or MP specific.   Mainly powers that are different than Shepards, or MP guns that don't exist in SP.  But many of the more recent of those don't exist in coalesced at all.

Also, DLC guns are not "updated" in the patch.  Or I should say paid SP DLC weapons are not updated, I think the rest that are in MP were.

I doubt they will update SP balance every couple of months.  They only do that with a patch.

[Athenau]

So MP stats are really SP stats with MP deltas applied? That makes sense.

But if they're doing this to lower the size of the deltas, then they might be in the same situation a few months down the road (as more balance changes roll in), hence the need for another consolidation patch. Then again, the pace of updates has slowed noticeably, so that might not be necessary.

Regardless, the state of MP balance as of Jan 2013 is way better than release--the game had a huge arsenal out the gate, but 90% of it sucked. Now that's no longer the case (unless you compare it to some of the OP DLC stuff).

[capn233]

Athenau wrote...

But if they're doing this to lower the size of the deltas, then they might be in the same situation a few months down the road (as more balance changes roll in), hence the need for another consolidation patch. Then again, the pace of updates has slowed noticeably, so that might not be necessary.

Sure, that would be an issue as balance changes continue.  However, it also will depend on how long balance changes are carried out, and also how long they even run a ME3 server.

But yeah, a lot of the guns are a lot less crappy now.  Some are worse (Paladin...).  Snipers would in theory be better, but 100% shieldgate on insanity without God Tier ammo from MP sort of stiffles them.

[darkchaosbunny]

capn233 wrote...

Athenau wrote...

But if they're doing this to lower the size of the deltas, then they might be in the same situation a few months down the road (as more balance changes roll in), hence the need for another consolidation patch. Then again, the pace of updates has slowed noticeably, so that might not be necessary.

Sure, that would be an issue as balance changes continue.  However, it also will depend on how long balance changes are carried out, and also how long they even run a ME3 server.

But yeah, a lot of the guns are a lot less crappy now.  Some are worse (Paladin...).  Snipers would in theory be better, but 100% shieldgate on insanity without God Tier ammo from MP sort of stiffles them.

From what I see, only three guns got worse: Carnifex, Paladin, and Falcon. The rest were either buffed or given a fair trade off like the Javelin. The paladin really suffered, especially when the heavy barrel allowed it to be used against Eva on mars without the extended clip.

Modifié par darkchaosbunny, 08 mars 2013 - 07:18 .

[Athenau]

The rapid-fire snipers (Raptor, Indra, even the lowly Incisor) are pretty good now IMO. I'd go so far as to say that the Indra is one of the best (if not the best) choices for an Infiltrator.

But the Widow, Javelin, BW buffs...yeah pretty pointless with 100% shield gate. Maybe for the BW it'll make it easier to one-shot mooks with bodyshots, I guess, but probably not worth the weight.

[capn233]

Athenau wrote...

The rapid-fire snipers (Raptor, Indra, even the lowly Incisor) are pretty good now IMO. I'd go so far as to say that the Indra is one of the best (if not the best) choices for an Infiltrator.

But the Widow, Javelin, BW buffs...yeah pretty pointless with 100% shield gate. Maybe for the BW it'll make it easier to one-shot mooks with bodyshots, I guess, but probably not worth the weight.

Indra is good on an Infiltrator.  Especially if you exploit Marksman.  I am not sold on the others, they are still pretty bad in MP so I doubt I will bother with them in SP.

Black Widow is probably worth the weight on an Infiltrator or Soldier still.  And it benefits from Marksman, so that would be an interesting way to go on Infiltrator.  Soldier is probably best as CS Fire Explode spamming these days with whatever automatic or beam weapon you happen to like.

[HBC Dresden]

Thanks for all the good info guys, especially capn233 and Athenau. This is actually very important for any SP enthusiast, so it's good to have a confirmation on the exact nature of changes to SP's big repertoire of weapons. (And my main Femshep is a Marksman Infiltrator.)

Modifié par HBC Dresden, 09 mars 2013 - 04:54 .

[Athenau]

Hmm, there is one cool reason to use the BW now. Since it has innate penetration it doesn't lose any damage shooting through walls even if you stack it with other piercing modifiers (see here ttp://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/15712008/3) .

BW + High Velocity Barrel + Piercing mod = 2.95m of penetration at full damage. O_o.

[zeypher]

so is the particle rifle updated as well. Sorry I cant test it now redownloading the game on origin on my ****ty internet.

[Athenau]

I'm pretty sure only the stuff in the baseline coalesced.bin was changed. That means the regular + pre-order weapons, plus some other bonus stuff like the chakram launcher, collector rifle, Valkyrie, Indra, etc.

The particle rifle was in a separate dlc file, so it's probably unchanged.

[Constant Motion]

Don't know if anyone's reported in on this yet, (Ctrl-F'd "expl~" for the entire thread, so hopefully didn't miss anything,) but possibly since the patch and certainly since Citadel, tech explosions have been detonating without a kill, as in multiplayer.

Just if we're compiling a list of "things what the patch done" And sterling work on that, incidentally - very cool seeing all the differences. I generally prefer MP balance, so it's frequently been some very cool reading.

Modifié par Constant Motion, 14 mars 2013 - 06:33 .

[capn233]

Athenau wrote...

I'm pretty sure only the stuff in the baseline coalesced.bin was changed. That means the regular + pre-order weapons, plus some other bonus stuff like the chakram launcher, collector rifle, Valkyrie, Indra, etc.

The particle rifle was in a separate dlc file, so it's probably unchanged.

Well, some of the data was in the DLC.

Ashes is interesting in that a lot of the data is in the base game.  All the other Collector Edition and Preorder bonuses are in the base version of the game.

I don't know if the PPR was rebalanced.  But in general it was everything that wasn't a paid SP DLC gun.

[RedCaesar97]

Constant Motion wrote...
Don't know if anyone's reported in on this yet, (Ctrl-F'd "expl~" for the entire thread, so hopefully didn't miss anything,) but possibly since the patch and certainly since Citadel, tech explosions have been detonating without a kill, as in multiplayer.

Tech explosions:
 - Tech bursts (electrical explosions): could always detonate without requiring a kill
 - Fire explosions: changed in patch 1.04; this was before the patch 1.05 balance changes
 - Cryo explosions. No change; still need the detonation power to kill the enemy to detonate a frozen enemy. Unless I am seeing something different than what other people are seeing

[Loki_344]

RedCaesar97 wrote...
Tech explosions:
 - Tech bursts (electrical explosions): could always detonate without requiring a kill
 - Fire explosions: changed in patch 1.04; this was before the patch 1.05 balance changes
 - Cryo explosions. No change; still need the detonation power to kill the enemy to detonate a frozen enemy. Unless I am seeing something different than what other people are seeing

Its definitely been changed, but it isn't as obvious as the other updates because the enemy still needs to be totally frozen to trigger the detonation.

I did some tests where I would use cryoblast on a low level enemy, wait till he was totally frozen, and detonate him with a squadmates concussive shot. The explosion triggered everytime (I'm aware that CS got a buff). Then I would try another CS on any frozen enemies that got caught in the explosion (who cannot be detonated) and the CS reacted to them the same way as it did pre-patch, no explosion, light damage and ragdoll. Prior to the patch if I used throw against a targeted frozen enemy it would have gotten the same impact ragdoll effect, but now they detonate every time no matter what power is used (even overload).

[RedCaesar97]

Loki_344 wrote...

RedCaesar97 wrote...
Tech explosions:
 - Tech bursts (electrical explosions): could always detonate without requiring a kill
 - Fire explosions: changed in patch 1.04; this was before the patch 1.05 balance changes
 - Cryo explosions. No change; still need the detonation power to kill the enemy to detonate a frozen enemy. Unless I am seeing something different than what other people are seeing

Its definitely been changed, but it isn't as obvious as the other updates because the enemy still needs to be totally frozen to trigger the detonation.

I did some tests where I would use cryoblast on a low level enemy, wait till he was totally frozen, and detonate him with a squadmates concussive shot. The explosion triggered everytime (I'm aware that CS got a buff). 

Really? Huh. I will take you word for it. Every time I have tested it has been with Cryo Ammo. Maybe Cryo Ammo works differently? I will have to check that out the next time I get the chance. 

Thanks for the heads up.

[godlike13]

Im not noticing any change to cryo explosions.

Modifié par godlike13, 15 mars 2013 - 04:02 .

[capn233]

It takes too long for enemies to freeze, which is probably why this is going unnoticed.

[RedCaesar97]

capn233 wrote...

It takes too long for enemies to freeze, which is probably why this is going unnoticed.

Well how long does it actually take for an enemy to completely freeze?

[capn233]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

capn233 wrote...

It takes too long for enemies to freeze, which is probably why this is going unnoticed.

Well how long does it actually take for an enemy to completely freeze?

Damn near a second I reckon.  Usually longer than you want to wait to kill them.

I have not tested for CE's all that extensively.  I did my Cryo Soldier basically before the patch.

[Loki_344]

godlike13 wrote...

Im not noticing any change to cryo explosions.

It's a very subtle change that you probably wouldn't even notice unless you puposely tried to trigger a lot of CE pre-patch, like me. Before the patch I would have to whittle enemy health down to nearly a sliver before I used a power for the detonation in order to insure it would take place, but now as long as their frozen (via a direct attack) I can trigger explosions at will regardless of HP or power frozen damage bonuses.

I just triggered an explosion with a level 1 overload on a full healthed enemy. That would have never happened pre-patch.

[RedCaesar97]

Okay, just tested it, and can confirm that the Cryo Explosion changes have made it into single player. Test with Cryo Blast and Overload, and with Cryo Ammo and Concussive Shot/Slam.

Not sure why I never noticed the change before. I guess it was because of how my powers were specced or maybe Cryo Ammo freezes differently. And I think Concussive Shot amplified with Cryo Ammo may mess with the Cryo Explosion.

Thank you Loki_344 for prompting me to test it again.

[Aryck the One]

The M-37 Falcon is now (sadly) the Multiplayer version, with its painfully slow rate of fire. Figures. Does anybody consider the MP Falcon to be at all fun to use?

[HBC Dresden]

Aryck1095 V2 wrote...

The M-37 Falcon is now (sadly) the Multiplayer version, with its painfully slow rate of fire. Figures. Does anybody consider the MP Falcon to be at all fun to use?

Oh well, that is the price I'm willing to pay for all the other weapon buffs. But the Falcon does kinda suck now. Are squadmates still useful with it though (I haven't tested it)?

[capn233]

MP Falcon is an excellent CC weapon.