514 réponses à ce sujet

[Dr_Extrem]

for me, the ending is the "jump the shark" moment of the series.

shepards story is over and my avatar was disposed in a way i really dont like. if the next game will not feature shepard and the old crew (what is most likely to happen), its my personal"point of no return". the moment to abandon the series .... before it gets even uglier.

the story before the ending was not golden .. it was the pretty simple and cheap "superweapon"-plot, wich was executed in the worst possible way (giant mystery gun). but tbh, if the ending would have been in the tradiution of the previous mass effect games, i would still shake my head about the plot but the game would have been ok - an end to a series, i would replay.

[Steppenwolf]

AlanC9 wrote...

LadyPaine wrote...

 The origional ending that was leaked was better suited and would have worked not this re-done version.
.

You mean the Dark Energy ending where the Reapers were the good guys all along, trying to save the universe?

Yeah, they were both awful but at least with the dark energy ending the Reapers were claiming to be saving the galaxy and not the lives they were snuffing out.
I think it's quite clear though that Bioware had no idea what the Reapers' goal was until they were already making ME3. They were doomed to failure because they couldn't be assed to think about one of the most important components of the story ahead of time.

[Steppenwolf]

simfamSP wrote...

Perhaps we can stop for today? Just in honour of Robin Sachs? Just a suggestion, no need to comply.

... what does the guy from Buffy have to do with anything?

[AlanC9]

BasilKarlo wrote...

I think it's quite clear though that Bioware had no idea what the Reapers' goal was until they were already making ME3. They were doomed to failure because they couldn't be assed to think about one of the most important components of the story ahead of time.

Like when they were making ME1.... it's difficult to come up with a sensible Reaper plan when they sit around waiting for intelligent life to evolve, let it develop technology, and then attack and exterminate it.

[Iakus]

BasilKarlo wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Perhaps we can stop for today? Just in honour of Robin Sachs? Just a suggestion, no need to comply.

... what does the guy from Buffy have to do with anything?

You mean Zaeed Masani? 

[AlanC9]

BasilKarlo wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Perhaps we can stop for today? Just in honour of Robin Sachs? Just a suggestion, no need to comply.

... what does the guy from Buffy have to do with anything?

Zaeed's VA.

[Steppenwolf]

Oh man, I never realized that! And I just found out that he died. Gah!

[Landon7001]

the biggest thing about the ending, even more than the jarring, sudden change of theme and the lack of diversity in endings as they promised was the utter lack of any closure at the end of a huge, epic trilogy all about characters and player choice....it just ended, with no detail, for such a rich, detailed universe populated with so many rich, detailed characters , it really did fell like a big **** you to the fans....it really did.....its been said, but this game was clearly rushed, and thats really ashame

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Luckily, the ending was fixed with the Extended Cut

[Grubas]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Luckily, the ending was fixed with the Extended Cut

Harbinger, Rachni, Synthesis... suddenly everything makes sense.

[silverexile17s]

[quote]Maxster_ wrote...

[quote]The Interloper wrote...

 Silver Exile already went over most of this, so I’ll summarize.

Firstly, your assertion that the Spectres can’t go somewhere C-Sec says they can’t. As the wiki says, 

[quote]Mass Effect Wiki _
wrote...Spectres are agents entrusted with extraordinary authority by the Citadel Council, including the power of life and death over the inhabitants of the galaxy … they are generally considered as being above the
law [/quote]
[/quote]
I can play that game too.
Where it is said, that they could walk anywhere they pleased? Nowhere. You are just making it up.
[quote]
Now Saren gains two things from the conduit; access to the citadel, which he has been denied, and access for a geth army. But he already had access to the citadel before he was exiled; he could certainly stroll into the council chambers without being stopped, like Shepard(if not, why not?)
[/quote]
Sure.
You completely ignored quotes from wiki, for a single reason - to bash ME1 to create an impression, that writing of ME1 is on par with garbage writing of ME3. Which is, of course, false.
Saren alone would be dead long before he could do any harm. C-Sec special response division will take care of that.
[quote]
Plus if he launches the attack without exposing himself as a traitor, he will still be trusted (especially by the council), and could probably use his status to spread confusion as to what was happening.
[/quote]
Attack? On the Citadel? By mercs? Just lol.
Or geth?
I like how you completely ignored quotes from wiki. That style
[quote]
As for an army, we know he not only has elite mercs and assassins on his payroll (so many he can apparently dispose of whole teams of them at a time) and that he can get them onto the citadel, but that he’s smuggled a small geth army, including walking TANKS, past high-tech security systems before.
[/quote]
Except that those mercs would never get into a presidium.
As for Noveria - i like how you ignored entire reason it even exists.
This place is out of council jurisdiction and don't follow council laws. And corporations of Noveria doesn't get searched throughously, especially cargo. Just scans for energy.
Situation with rachni breeding or other dangerous research would never happen on Citadel, or in Council space for that matter.
[quote]
So does he really need the conduit so badly? I think that’s a fair question to ask, since it’s the basis of the whole plot, and Saren loses a lot of time and the element of surprise thanks to his pursuit of it.  As for the citadel fleet, the in-game dialogue paints a different picture from the wiki page. Which I have read, as a matter of fact. Go back and listen to it.
[/quote]
No, my friend, conversations, and codex entires, confirms my point. Next time when you trying to prove something - provide an actual proof. I know you can't, but still.
[quote]
[quote]silverexile17s wrote...Since C-Sec is the first called in, they likely are prepped to handle a Spectre. They held out against Cerberus and the Geth well enough.  [/quote] I must contest that. Saren ripped through them so quickly that he had already seized the citadel tower by the time Shepard jumped through the conduit after him, mere minutes after Saren had gone through.
[/quote]
You do realise, that presidium is a restricted area? And that the enemy appeared right behind most of defences, and near tower, leaving only those c-sec forces which are inside the tower to overcome? And that no one would ever expect a whole army appearing in a middle of the presidium?
Of course, if Saren was alone - he would die very fast. But he was with a large forces of geth.
Few minutes is not making sense, but at least 30 minutes is enough.
[quote]
 And just to clarify, both for Max and for Silver, my point is not that Sarens plan breaks the plot, believe it or not. The
story still functions. My point is that things can be enjoyable even if they don’t stand up to close logical scrutiny. The issues with Saren, with the Human Reaper, with Lazarus, and so on could be resolved with clarifying or changed details. In contrast with the ending, in which case clarifying detail actually makes it worse.
[/quote]
Changing details - is a retcon. With a retcon, you can even make Crucible sensical. You can also completely retcon ME2 plot, remove human reaper and put some sense into collectors operations, like they were actually testing humans.
But. It will never work with crap like Lazarus and Cerberus Empire. Those things will never make any sense.

And of course, if you are saying, that something is meaningful and makes sense, when it actually isn't, because it can be retconned into something meaningful - this way, you can justify almost any crap writing ever existed.
[quote]
[quote]Maxster_ wrote...ME2 is just a meaningless asspulled filler, which adds completely nothing to a story [/quote]With the current ending, yes, it is meaningless. I agree. I already explained this. 
[/quote]
ME1 makes sense even without sequels, actually, it makes more sense without sequels, especially ME2, than with ME2.
ME2 story makes absolutely no sense, sequel regardless, and also retcons sense from ME1.
[quote]
[quote]Maxster_ wrote... Except if reapers can fly into a galaxy in 0.5-3 years, losing completely nothing - there is absolutely no reason for Sovereign to act. [/quote] I already explained what they lose. Twice. 
[/quote]
My dear friend, stating something as explained, doesn't make it so.
There is exactly no reason for Sovereign to act. He can't take Citadel on it's own.
There is no point in waiting for thousands of years, harvest already delayed.
There is no reason for reapers to wait for civilizations becoming too strong, or for actual discovery of reapers existence by this cycle.
And this made that way only because reapers suddenly, in ME3, can arrive from dark space in 0.5-3 years losing completely nothing in the process.

That waiting was making sense in ME1, and makes completely no sense in ME3, after this retcon. Reapers suddenly were never trapped in dark space, Sovereign never needed to attack Citadel, or do anything at all.
[quote]
[quote]Maxster_ wrote...It is exactly is a headcanon. There is no plot related to a dark energy, only few mentions about dark energy.[/quote] I also made points about the human reaper (which is the basis of the whole plot, and the heart of my point) and the writers self-confessed, published intentions, which is just about the opposite of headcannon by the way. You ignored those and only addressed the third, tertiary point I threw in about Haestrom.
[/quote]
As i said, when you are using out-of-universe infromation, to prove your statement in-universe - you already lost.
And people are not judged by intentions, only by deeds.
Your headcanon - is pretending that there is dark energy plot, when there is not.
Anyway, dark energy was one of ideas of ME2, but it was dropped in the development process.
There is exactly 2 mentions of dark energy, Haelstrom, and Parasini. And that is all. There is no dark energy plot. There was no dark energy plot. Only that dark energy being something, that a part of MEU.
And ME2 excuse of a plot makes absolutely no sense. Stop pretending that some thoughts that was never part of a story is a proof that it exists in story.
[quote]
[quote]Maxster_ wrote... It does not matter for you. Suddenly retarded reaper destroyer, idiotic battle with worm, pointless air strike, which had no chance of succeeding from the start, Cerberus asspulled for completely no reason - for you, it is consistant and coherent narrative. But not for me [/quote]Let’s define things. When I say that the sequence is “narratively consistent on a core level,” I’m talking about not what happens in the scene but why the scene is in the story in the first place. Tuchanka happens because Wrex, Eve, Mordin and Shepard all desire to cure the genophage (or to at least appear to do so). The effects of the genophage, both in reference to individual and generally likable characters (Wrex, Mordin) and the universe as a whole (Krogan culture, Krogan wars) are introduced early in ME1 and developed in ME2. The morality of the genophage is discussed and the distinct possibility of a cure is toyed with in both games. In ME3, the character’s motivations converge with those of Shepard and the main plot (in which you need troops) and you are given the opportunity to decide, once and for all, what you think about the genophage, and whether you’re willing to hurt your friends (or risk another Krogan war) in order to stay true to that choice. The plotline has a clear introduction, development, and conclusion that is spread throughout the trilogy, ties in with the main plot of defeating the reapers, ties in with the arcs of individual characters, and presents several moral choices. This is what I mean when I say “basic coherency” and Shepard killing the Reaper on Tuchanka with a roundhouse kick to the crotch wouldn’t have altered that. That’s a "how." That's detail. Details matter to a point but they were never ME’s strong suit to begin with. 
[/quote]
Of course, when you just completely ignoring those, to "prove" your "point".
It does not matter how "deep" and "thoughtful" your story is, if it's premise and exposition makes no sense.
Most fun thing is, that Tuchanka could easily be made into sensical mission, just remove derpstroyer and Cerberus as an enemy, and add salarians or krogans(from rival clans).
Of course this way there would be no retarded scene of fight with worm.

Even in current state, Tuchanka is easily, by far, the best story of ME3. It is moderate by ME1 standarts, but still, that only shows low quality of ME3 writing.
[quote]
This is in contrast with the ending, which comes out of nowhere, involves an entirely new conflict that is only relevant to an unlikable new character we have never met, against theoretical killer synthetics that don’t exist, which are fought using technology we don’t understand and whose effects the game barely explores, and all of this is introduced and resolved in five minutes with only paltry attempts at foreshadowing. Ten, with the EC. It is this core disconnect between the very narrative purpose of the ending scene and the rest of the plot that the ending fails. Not because we aren’t sure how the Starkid read Shepard’s mind, or how Shepard is breathing while in space, or how Anderson got ahead of him in the citadel (though those things aren’t helping at all).
[/quote]
Of course, ME3 ending is horrible written, it easily outdones everything that came before in a context of nonsense, even lazarus and nonsensical ME2 plot.
It quality is by far lower than anything in ME series.
But, that doesn't mean that everything else that was in ME series was written good, or brilliant.
It only means, that ending's writing quality is lower than other parts.
And it doesn't makes Tuchanka's writing quality as good.
[quote]
[quote]Maxster_ wrote...Harbringer is a moron, thinking one weak transport is enough to destroy SA fleets.[/quote]Where, exactly, did the game say or even imply that Harbinger thought this?  
[/quote]
Implied - by derpy Shepard, in collectors cruiser, and structure of that transport.
And point is - there is no reason for collectors to do anything. They could never finish said reapers, and there is no need to raise suspicions, especially when reapers can arrive in 0.5-3 years.
And if reapers are trapped in dark space, as it was in ME1, collectors(and thus Harbringer) are just morons - they could never ever finish this reaper, and they could never activate Citadel relay.
[quote]
[quote]Maxster_ wrote…Krogans are no threat to the reapers. They have no fleet. They could easily obliterated from orbit by a minor reaper task force. [/quote]Disregarding Silver’s points, disregarding the Reaper’s established reliance on ground forces, where are they have demonstrated to have the firepower to "easily" annihilate an entire militant race that has survived multiple nuclear apocalypses? I’d love to know.
[/quote]
In codex, which you are purposedly ignore, of course.
link
[quote] Reaper Capabilities data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D
The Reapers are technologically superior to the organic species of
the galaxy -- but the degree of that superiority is a matter of debate
in the intelligence community.
The Reapers' thrusters and FTL drives appear to propel them at
more than twice the speed of Citadel ships. Estimates of their location
in dark space suggest they can travel nearly 30 light-years in a 24-hour
period.
Reaper power sources seem to violate known physical laws. Reapers
usually destroy fuel infrastructure rather than attempting to capture
it intact, indicating that Reapers do not require organic species'
energy supplies. Consequently, the Reapers attack without regard for
maintaining supply lines behind them, except to move husks from one
planet to another. Unlike Citadel ships, Reapers do not appear to
discharge static buildup from their drive cores, although they sometimes
appear wreathed in static discharge when they land on planets.
The main gun on a Reaper capital ship dwarfs that of the
Alliance's Everest-class dreadnoughts. No dreadnought has yet survived a
direct hit from the weapon. Estimates put its destructive power
anywhere from 132 to 454 kilotons of TNT. Even if the target is
hardened, as in the case of a surface-based missile silo, the gun can
instead bury the target beneath molten metal. Precise targeting
computers and correctors also give the Reaper weapons a longer effective
range than organics' dreadnoughts or cruisers.
The kinetic barriers on a Reaper capital ship can shrug off the
firepower of a small fleet. Weapons specifically designed to overcome
shields, such as the Javelin, GARDIAN lasers, or the Thanix series, can
bypass the barriers to some degree. The difficulty is getting close
enough to use them -- the surface-mounted weaponry on Reaper ships,
similar in principle to GARDIAN, presents an effective defense against
organic species' fighters.
[/quote]
And point being - krogans are no threat to the reapers, there is no need to waste time on orbital bombardment before other races, who are actual threat, which can lead to significant losses, are crushed.
And after that, reapers could just eradicate krogans with orbital bombardment, and then sweep the planet with various husks, which they don't need in dark space anyway.
[quote]
[quote]Maxster_ wrote…krogans are no threat to humanity, [/quote]“Yeah, The Illusive Man was
totally okay with an empowered and aggressive alien race. They promised to behave this time and he took them to their word.” 
[/quote]
As always, you are just deliberately ignore codex.
Read parts about space combat, and stop saying nonsense. Without fleets your "agressive alien race" is just a target practice for any sane admiral or political leader.
Krogans are no threat to the humanity, they have no fleets, and subjugated by the council, and condemned for confinement on their planet.
On the other hand, we have direct threat of the reapers, who would obliterate everyone, humanity included, and are not negotiable.
And we have potential threat of the council races, which fleets have potential to easily crush entire Systems Alliance.

If TIM wasn't insane mumbling idiot in ME3, as is Systems Alliance leadership - they could use krogans as a leverage for the council, by indirectly helping them(krogans) through Cerberus. This is dangerous political play, but it is to ensure human dominance and survival, so it is worth to try.
So, for TIM it would be wise to actually help krogans, and it perfectly fits his views. Well, his views before he went full retard in ME3.
And Systems Alliance can easily disavow Cerberus actions, as "those insane terrorists who tries to undermine our effort to build a better and peaciful future for everyone".
[quote]
[quote]Maxster_ wrote...I can prove anything i said... In contrast to you[/quote] Substantiate, say... the above three remarks, then. No snarky dismissals. Buckle down and lay out your reasoning in detail.[/quote]
Said by someone, who haven't even produce a small proof for his assertions. So credible

[/quote]
1. He's probably basing it off of what Anderson says in ME1: "Saren's a Spectre. He can go anywhere, do almost anything."
That's likely where his source is. So, he's really not making that up:whistle:

2. ME1 is no different then ME3. The writing is the same. One is executed better then the other, but the other sin't garbage.
But on topic, I do agree that Special Responce could handle Saren if he was alone. They held out against the geth and Cerberus well enough, despite the odds against them.

3. I really doubt that he could do anything of the sort without STG or the other Spectres linking him to it. This plan leaves too large of a paper trail compaired to the Conduit.

4. That's actually true. I'm shocked you actually looked at something CLOSELY.
Yes, The Citadel is more secure then Noveria. Things like geth getting in through smuggling would be unlikely.

5. You forgot to put up proof yourself:whistle: If you tell someone they need proof, it helps to not neglect putting up your own direct qoutes.

6. Indeed. Saren had a head-start, and literally teleported into th emiddle of the Presidium with a batallion of geth behind him, right in the enemy's blind spot. There was no chance for retaliation.

7. Lazarus doesn't make sense no matter how you cut it, but Cerberus CAN (good PR from having Shepard, and stopping the collectors while the Council does squat can bost recrutment. They have Omega, whith a massive population to concript. Indoctrination tech to turn any and a humans of fighting age into soldiers). SO them becoming a large army can be plausible. It's just aggrivating that the direct details are left vauge.

8. ME2's story has no relation to the others, you mean.

9. I think you IGNORED everything he said.
Sovergien WASN'T alone anymore. He had the geth, and had Saren on the inside. So he was ASSURED to take the Citadel.
Where does it say that Sovergien was waiting that long for a chance? If your going off the Rachni, Dr. Bryson already told you in Leviathan that they weren't Reaper infulenced via his notes.
You keep acting like Sovergien thought it would fail. Of COURSE it didn't expect that.
And you continue to ignore that it is CONFIRMED  CANNON that it took the Reapers three years to get from Dark Space. NOT "0.5 - 3." THREE YEARS TOTAL.
And had the trap worked they would have:
decapatated the main government.
Surprised and panicked the galaxy.
Segregated them so that no orginized resistance could be formed.

When the trap fails, they:
Must fight every race at once, because they can't cut them off from each-other, and pick them off anymore without the relay network.
The races are more free to counterattack and regroup.
They take many unexpected losses by having to slog through everyone.
They are unable to take the Citadel without it locking them out.

There are PLENTY of reasons Sovergien needed to take the Citadel. NOTHING in ME3 invaladates that.

10. What the HELL does that mean? If the main producer himself said it existed, It F***ing existed.
In game refrences would be:
Gianna Parasini telling you that people are looking into Dark Energy.
Haestrom and the Mirgant Fleet, where you learn that Dark Energy is reducing the intiror mass of the star. Tali monolouges a short bit on weather or not Dark Energy can destablize solar material. This would be detrimantal to the galaxy, since Dark Energy is used in the Mass Effect fields that make FTL possible.
So YES. There WERE in-game hints to the Dark Energy theroy. It's not a headcannon. These are even confirmed by Drew himself.
SO there is BOTH In-Universe AND Out-Universe information supporting it.

11. Cerberus is doing this for the same reason the Dalatrass tries to get you to sabotage the cure: Fear of krogan expansion. Cerberus doesn't need compitition in the war they presume they will win, or the new galaxy they presume to spearhead. It's common tactical sense to take out an enemy when the oppertunity presents itself. Then again, YOU wouldn't know about that, would you?
And that Destroyer is just proof that the Reapers aren't as invunerable as dumbasses like you prase them to be.
It MORE THEN MATCHES moments like Feros and Noveria. Even Virmire, depending on the scene with Mordin.

12. The only "derp" is you. ME3's ONLY major failing was the ending. Everything else is mostly nitpicks from "derps" like you.
It's quality MATCHES ME2.
And Tcuhanka is one of the best moments in the series as a whole.

13. You are again inventing a "derp" moment on your part alone.
The Collectors were the ones beginning construction of the Next Reaper ahead of time. They never intended to finish it on their own. It never said that. Just that they had started it. The point is that if not for Shepard, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN FINIHED when the Reapers attacked and brought in humans en masse.
Again, Reapers arrive in THREE YEARS TOTAL. NO EXCEPTIONS. And they must fight everyone at once, and cannot get the Citadel with ease anymore. Also, they have taken dozens of losses they didn't expect.
You continue to fail at even TRYING to look at the lore from the other games. Your butthurt bias is preventing you from comprehending any lore that isn't ME1 related.

14 How chamingly spicific and facist that you left out THIS: masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/The_Reapers

Codex: Reaper Vunerbinaties.
Although clearly technologically superior to the Citadel forces, the
Reapers have experienced casualties in the battles across the galaxy.
This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence,
weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated.
Unlike the mass effect relays that they created, Reapers do not
have quantum shields. Locking itself down at a quantum level would leave
a Reaper unaware of its surroundings until the shielding deactivated.
Instead, Reapers rely on kinetic barriers.
In the case of a Reaper capital ship, these kinetic barriers can
hold off the firepower of two dreadnoughts simultaneously, but three
clearly causes strain, and four typically results in destruction.
Weapons designed to maximize heat damage, such as the Thanix series,
show better results against the Reapers than pure kinetic impacts.
The barriers of a Reaper destroyer are less formidable than those
of a capital ship. It is possible for a single cruiser or many fighters
to disable or demolish a destroyer if they can get within range before
they are themselves destroyed.
The Reapers' energy sources are not infinite. For example, to
land on a planet, a Reaper must substantially reduce its mass. This
transfer of power to its mass effect generators leaves the Reaper's
kinetic barriers at only partial strength.
Sovereign was destroyed while assuming direct control over Saren.
The feedback from Saren's death seemed to entirely overload Sovereign's
shields. Current Reapers do not seem to suffer from this design flaw.
Reaper capital ships can turn faster than Citadel dreadnoughts,
but to do so, they must lower their mass to a level unacceptable in
combat situations. Consequently, it is possible for a dreadnought to
emerge from FTL travel behind a capital ship, then bring its guns to
bear faster than the Reaper can return fire. This is a poor tactic,
however, against Reapers flying in proper formation.


15. And I also remind you that the Volus and Hanar weren't a threat, but they go after them too.
They want to harvest every race, either for new Sovergien-class, or Destroyer-class. They NEVER want to wipe out a population center. They want to harvest the major centers. Hence why they don't just glass over Thessia, Irune, Heshtok, Earth, Palaven, and so-forth.
They NEVER, EVER eradicate any race. They subdue and harvest. LEARN THE LORE.

16. If they expand, to the point that they again cannot be contained by their homeworld, there would have to be a repal.
And INCOMPETANT Admiral or political leader is more like it. The krogan are escentally like a protected species. What you're suggesting would ignite krogan sympathy, and considered an act of unprovoked aggression, to which the krogan would have full leagl rights to demand compensation from. It would also re-spark krogan hate for everyone.
You really have no grasp of ploitics, do you? TIM figured that it's best if a race as naturally aggressive as the krogan STAYED isolated.
It's COMMON SENSE. Helping the krogan is THE COMPLETE OPPOSATE of his goals. They are a race that reproduce quickly.
Also, LOOK how well your ****** plan worked for the Council regarding the krogan and the Rachni Wars. they REALLY kept a good hold on it all.
TIM is too smart/careful to want to risk that again. .

17. You just used an asspull to avoid countering.:wizard: Your're REALLY not painting a good picture for yourself. Everytime you do that (belitle the other for having no proof, when not having any proof of your own), it makes your case evermore weaker.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Grubas wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Luckily, the ending was fixed with the Extended Cut

Harbinger, Rachni, Synthesis... suddenly everything makes sense.

If he says it often enough maybe he'll convince himself.

[Dr_Extrem]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Grubas wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Luckily, the ending was fixed with the Extended Cut

Harbinger, Rachni, Synthesis... suddenly everything makes sense.

If he says it often enough maybe he'll convince himself.

i think that it already happened.

[Rip504]

If the ending truly does not matter,why end it at all? Oh because obviously the ending matters and holds a strong point to any story. Absurd.

Now add a poorly executed ending with a poorly executed journey and what do we have? A poorly executed story. Obviously for many the Journey within ME3 was not enough,so the comment about the Journey means more then the destination holds no merit to these players.

[jamesp81]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

for me, the ending is the "jump the shark" moment of the series.

shepards story is over and my avatar was disposed in a way i really dont like. if the next game will not feature shepard and the old crew (what is most likely to happen), its my personal"point of no return". the moment to abandon the series .... before it gets even uglier.

the story before the ending was not golden .. it was the pretty simple and cheap "superweapon"-plot, wich was executed in the worst possible way (giant mystery gun). but tbh, if the ending would have been in the tradiution of the previous mass effect games, i would still shake my head about the plot but the game would have been ok - an end to a series, i would replay.

I agree with this.  The superweapon plot, unfortunately, was kind of inevitable because BW painted themselves into a corner.

The tone of the Reapers should've been "they're clever at isolating their enemies and defeating them in detail".  With this tone, a victory by acquiring sufficient war assets and getting everyone to work together might've been possible.  And if BW really wanted a super gun, fine, you could still have one and just make it a high value war asset.

As it is, BW had a good thing going and they fumbled the ball at the one yard line.  Amazing and disappointing.  ME2's SM set the standard for the end game of an ME game...they should've stuck with something similar, but on a larger scale, with the possibility of achieving a "happy" ending if sufficient war assets were brought to bear.

[N-Seven]

Rip504 wrote...

If the ending truly does not matter,why end it at all? Oh because obviously the ending matters and holds a strong point to any story. Absurd.

Now add a poorly executed ending with a poorly executed journey and what do we have? A poorly executed story. Obviously for many the Journey within ME3 was not enough,so the comment about the Journey means more then the destination holds no merit to these players.

If you found the journey poorly executed (and I don't believe you really did) then why did you stay on it?  If I don't enjoy a book I'm reading I put it down.  If I lose interest in a show or movie I leave or turn it off.  If I don't enjoy a meal, I don't finish it.

All three games in this series were great.  Like an episodic sci-fi show for 3 'seasons'.   Was the series finale a bit of a let down?  Sure, but so is the finale of just about any TV show.   Curiousity about how the big, campy, 'save the universe from machine aliens', over-arching storyline ended wasn't the reason I stuck with it to the end.  Sure, it was a factor, but really it was the little things that kept me firing up my machine for an hour or four at a time.

The Mass Effect series was a great success, despite a flawed ending to this particular chapter/trilogy/installment.  It attracted a legion of fans, established an interesting universe/franchise to build on.  

Also, religious beliefs aside, our own personal 'destinations' are probably going to be imperfect at best.  Likely mundane.   I don't live my life to build towards a great death.   I live my life for the sake of living a great life; and it has to end sometime.   Count me in the 'journey is more important' boat.

Modifié par N-Seven, 07 février 2013 - 05:20 .

[The Interloper]

 I seem to be a bit late returning, but there were so many doozy statements just had to say something. 

Maxster_ wrote... how "deep" and "thoughtful" your story is….doesn't mean that everything else that was in ME series was written good if it's premise and exposition makes no sense. you are saying, that something is meaningful and makes sense because it can be retconned into something meaningful..

Meaning derives from believable characters with cogent motivations being at the heart of the story. Some exposition flaws are hurt these core story elements, and some don’t. The latter kind (like all of the stuff you brought up) can drag down what would have been a good story, certainly. I have never denied this. But they can be changed (ie retconned), to either make sense or become nonsense, all without altering the stories core meaning and point. But the former (like the ending) destroys the story's meaning, and thus the story itself. This is a massive distinction and if you don't understand it's ramnifications that then there is simply nothing more to discuss.  

Maxter_ wrote...Stop pretending that some thoughts that was never part of a story is a proof that it exists in story.

All I am saying is that major parts of the story were written for a context (and an ending) that never materialized, and that if the matching context had been kept then said elements would have made much more sense. You have insisted on attacking these plot elements in the context of the ending that was presented in-game[/u]. That is not what I have been defending, ever, and I am through with explaining that to you. Or what “headcannon” means. 

Maxster_ wrote... I like how you completely ignored quotes from wiki. conversations, and codex entires, confirms my point.

Firstly, Saren. Anderson says outright on the Normandy that spectres can “go anywhere, do anything.” Gameplay shows that they have access to the council chambers in particular. Dialogue and the codex explicitly says that Port Hanshan’s security is “near unbreachable” specifically because it is not in council space. Matsuo says the Geth containers were “thoroughly scanned.” You and Silver both claimed that the Citadel’s security is very rigorous with no proof other than more things are outlawed there, which is a non-sequitor, and the Citadel’s active crime element is clear proof that the rules are successfully defied by average crooks like the Blue Suns (and at least one illegal AI) on a regular basis.

 The conduit allows Saren to transport troops into the presidium before anyone can realize it, sure, but Citadel security is clearly not omniscient, and not expecting such a bold attack, from the conduit or otherwise. Saren’s position, contacts and skill would make him the perfect insider to exploit these weaknesses, bring the citadel down from within. Instead he/Sovy acts as if he doesn’t have this massive tactical advantage and makes a galaxy-trotting expedition first priority while leaving a massive trail of destroyed colonies and botched bio-research programs and leading Shepard straight to Vigil. Making the villain pursue an object that allows him to break into a secure fortress he already had the keys to is dumb, plain and simple. 

You also argued, among other things, that a few reapers can easily kill all of the Krogan because their cannons are big, when the Krogans have survived a nuclear holocaust. You argued that the cured Krogan are still harmless because they are primitive and have no ships, when they are only primitive because of the genophage (and the social stagnation it caused) in the first place. You noted that Citadel fleet was around to oppose Sovereign no matter what Sovy did, but the Council's lines clearly show that the fleet’s strength and readiness was upgraded in response to Sovereign revealing his existence. You argued that the reapers being able to simply drive in from darkspace invalidates the plot when the alternative—that they couldn’t—just renders them idiots for trapping themselves in darkspace forever if Sovy failed. You asserted that they “lose completely nothing,” by waiting, without any attempt to counter my points to the contrary. You think that the line “the collectors intend to hit earth” somehow proves they intended to hit earth with one ship, and that what Shepard thinks Harby is planning is what Harby is actually planning. You say you think that “stating something as explained, doesn't make it so” yet have used assertions of proof, like “conversations, and codex entires, confirms my point” (that was yourentire rebuttal to in-game proof I submitted) as proof itself constantly.

Maxster_ wrote… there is no need to waste time on orbital bombardment before other races who are actual threat.

The reapers seem to agree with you, because their presence on Tuchanka was small. Now you’re openly creating imaginary plot holes.

Maxter_ wrote... ….(TIM) could…indirectly help them(krogans)... to ensure human dominance and survival, so it is worth to try.

Krogan Rebellions. Next.

Maxter_ wrote... just remove derpstroyer and Cerberus as an enemy, and add salarians or krogans(from rival clans).

. Wow. Just…wow. Really? That was the coup de’ grace to your ailing logical composure. I’d tell you to play the game again, but with your track record you’d just come back with an out-of-context bit of dialogue where the Dalatrass talks about how dangerous the Krogans are that “proves” your point she would fight them before fighting the reapers. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie] 

Modifié par The Interloper, 07 février 2013 - 09:21 .

[Maxster_]

[quote]The Interloper wrote...

 I seem to be a bit late returning, but there were so many doozy statements just had to say something. [quote]Maxster_ wrote... how "deep" and "thoughtful" your story is….doesn't mean that everything else that was in ME series was written good if it's premise and exposition makes no sense. you are saying, that something is meaningful and makes sense because it can be retconned into something meaningful.. [/quote] Meaning derives from believable characters with cogent motivations being at the heart of the story. Some exposition flaws are hurt these core story elements, and some don’t. The latter kind (like all of the stuff you brought up) can drag down what would have been a good story, certainly. I have never denied this. But they can be changed (ie retconned), to either make sense or become nonsense, all without altering the stories core meaning and point. But the former (like the ending) destroys the story's meaning, and thus the story itself. This is a massive distinction and if you don't understand it's ramnifications that then there is simply nothing more to discuss.  
[/quote]
If those elements can be retconned to make sense - it does not matter that they actually make sense.
No amount of retcons and clarification would change ME2 story(lazarus and human reaper(and reason for it's existence)) to something sensical, other than full removal of that crap or rewriting of an entire story.
No amount of retcons and clarification would change reapers arrival, Cerberus Empire, or Crucible to a something sensical, other than full removal of those concepts, or rewriting entire story.

You just dividing various examples of garbage writing in your own set of terms(altering "stories core meaning and point" or not), to justify garbage writing of a most of those examples.
This, of course, makes absolutely no sense, without defining what is "story's core meaning and point".

For example, reapers arrival in full strength, completely nullifies ME overarching plot, changing it core meaning("reapers deliberately allowed events of ME1 to happen", instead of "protheans acts helped us to stop the reapers") and point.
Does this qualified by you as something that "changes the stories core meaning and point"? It did not qualified by you as such. For a sole reason to prove your point that "ME3 is bad only because of the ending". Which is obviously false.

Another example, Crucible concept makes absolutely no sense. It is contrived nonsense, asspulled specifically to end reapers threat. It can not be designed, it cannot be built - therefore it can not exist. This deus ex plothole immediately turns ME3 plot in a pure nonsense, and dumbes down every character involved in it(like Hackett or Anderson or council).
It does not destroy overarching plot of the series, like previous example, but it makes ME3 into a retarded clowns show, thus completely ruining exposition and immersion. It changes story meaning from "working together despite differences to defeat the reapers" to a "let's build that device no one know how it works or what it does, in a hope that it will help us defeat the reapers. Derp, we are all idiots."

Anyway, some people would use different definition of the "story core meaning and point", like ME story is a story of fighting against reapers. Therefore, ME3 ending does not changes "story's core meaning and point", and your point is void.
[quote]

[quote]Maxter_ wrote...Stop pretending that some thoughts that was never part of a story is a proof that it exists in story. [/quote] All I am saying is that major parts of the story were written for a context (and an ending) that never materialized, and that if the matching context had been kept then said elements would have made much more sense. You have insisted on attacking these plot elements in the context of the ending that was presented in-game[/u]. That is not what I have been defending, ever, and I am through with explaining that to you. Or what “headcannon” means. 
[/quote]
You tried to justify ME2 nonsensical story with an obvious fallacy, in which minor insignificant elements of the story, which at some point of development were considered as a major elements of the story, but dropped almost immediately.
This attempt of justification failed immediately, and miserably, especially when you tried to defend your point with an out-of-universe information. At that moment, this part of discussion just became facepalm-worthy.
Ta-da
[quote]And I know that ME2's main plot gets a bad rap sometimes, but I think
it's worth noting that it was clearly written with the Dark Energy
ending in mind, and while DE had it's own issues, it did explain many of
the weak points of ME2 (why the human reaper mattered, why the
collectors were in such a hurry to build it, what the deal with Haestrom
was, why the collector base decision was significant, and so on).[/quote]
And then you tried to prove your assertion that ME2 plot is making sense, with an authors intent from out-of-universe information.
Not on information presented in game. Of course, in game, there is no dark energy plot at all, just 2 mentions of dark energy, this plot was completely dropped in development process. And ME2 story makes absolutely no sense.

And all you tried to do, is to justify ME2's story makes no sense, with non-existant dark energy plot in-game, which existance you "proving" with an out-of-universe information about dark energy plot being one of ideas of ME2 but was completely dropped in the development process.


Anyway, i can attack any points i want, in any way i see fit. You are in no position to object, especially when all you can do in defence is resorting to a logical fallacies and headcanon. And it is you who actually attacked my point of ME2 main plot and ME3 being badly written nonsense, with baseless ME1 bashing, and pretending that was dark energy plot, when clearly there was not(all that to present ME2 nonsensical plot as sensical).

Yes, it is your headcanon, that dark energy plot exists, and therefore ME2 plot making sense. And of course it doesn't matter, that your headcanon explains most plotholes and nonsense of ME2's excuse of a plot - it is still headcanon, there is no dark energy plot in ME2.
As writers intent, some ideas that were never in a plot, is a not an excuse for a ME2's plot making no sense. There is no dark energy plot in-game, and ME2 story makes no sense -  and no amount of headcanon will ever change those facts.
[quote]
[quote]Maxster_ wrote... I like how you completely ignored quotes from wiki. conversations, and codex entires, confirms my point. [/quote] Firstly, Saren. Anderson says outright on the Normandy that spectres can “go anywhere, do anything.” Gameplay shows that they have access to the council chambers in particular.
[/quote]
Doesn't matter. One spectre is nothing against C-Sec special response. And Saren is not an idiot.
[quote]
Dialogue and the codex explicitly says that Port Hanshan’s security is “near unbreachable” specifically because it is not in council space.[/quote]
Sure, mercs would never got through that security without explicit permission, and i doubt that activity would ever be permitted by board of directors.
But that doesn't apply to cargo. Because it is base for sensitive corporative research, and corporations have no reason to be there if their cargo will be searched at will.
[quote]
Matsuo says the Geth containers were “thoroughly scanned.”
[/quote]
link
Matsuo: I do not believe that. We did thorough scans of those. There were no power sources, no element zero masses.
Therefore, they were scanning for specific things, like power sources, and element zero.
And did not searched cargo.
[quote]
You and Silver both claimed that the Citadel’s security is very rigorous with no proof other than more things are outlawed there, which is a non-sequitor, and the Citadel’s active crime element is clear proof that the rules are successfully defied by average crooks like the Blue Suns (and at least one illegal AI) on a regular basis.
[/quote]
You missed the point deliberately.
Of course, it is entirely possible for Saren to smuggle some geth through docks. On wards.
But that doesn't help him to get this to the presidium.
So he had to fight with a small force of smuggled geth, against entire C-Sec, through wards to presidium and through presidium to the Citadel Tower, and then through entire Citadel Tower.
And all that when Citadel Fleet(which existence you constantly ignore) flying around, which can bring their marine detachments to reinforce Citadel Tower and presidium defence(break through hull if in dire need, or just through another ward).
[quote]
 The conduit allows Saren to transport troops into the presidium before anyone can realize it, sure, but Citadel security is clearly not omniscient, and not expecting such a bold attack, from the conduit or otherwise. Saren’s position, contacts and skill would make him the perfect insider to exploit these weaknesses, bring the citadel down from within. Instead he/Sovy acts as if he doesn’t have this massive tactical advantage and makes a galaxy-trotting expedition first priority while leaving a massive trail of destroyed colonies and botched bio-research programs and leading Shepard straight to Vigil. Making the villain pursue an object that allows him to break into a secure fortress he already had the keys to is dumb, plain and simple. 
[/quote]
Sure. Saren is a superhero who can defeat entire C-Sec singlehandely.
Or can fight through entire Citadel with small amount of geth he smuggled.
Of course, there is no" massive tactical advantage" you are talking about, but it is clear that you on a quest to present ME1 as nonsensical, and thus deliberately ignoring everything that contradicts your delusions.

[quote]
You also argued, among other things, that a few reapers can easily kill all of the Krogan because their cannons are big, when the Krogans have survived a nuclear holocaust. You argued that the cured Krogan are still harmless because they are primitive and have no ships, when they are only primitive because of the genophage (and the social stagnation it caused) in the first place.
[/quote]
Sure.
ME universe is a magical, fairytale realm, where anything could happen.
Like instantly appearing fleet out of nowhere, without space infrastructure and several years to build it and train crew.
Or like curing the genophage will instantly change social behavior of entire race(like in Wrex joke "When was the last time you ever saw a krogan scientist?"), and krogan engineers and scientists suddenly appearing out of nowhere.

Of course, such social behavior would take at least several decades to change, and in case of krogans, i think, it is more like several centruries.
Anyway, for krogans to  be able to build and support any significant fleet, which would pose any threat, it will take a several decades at best, or more likely, a century.
But that's ME3 we talking about. It is all about magic! Magic, magic, everywhere
[quote]
You noted that Citadel fleet was around to oppose Sovereign no matter what Sovy did, but the Council's lines clearly show that the fleet’s strength and readiness was upgraded in response to Sovereign revealing his existence.
[/quote]
Citadel Fleet, was very large and capable for a long time, and none of your wiggling will ever change that fact.
Anyway, it is clear that it was spread by the council, and that strategy actually failed.
[quote]
You argued that the reapers being able to simply drive in from darkspace invalidates the plot when the alternative—that they couldn’t—just renders them idiots for trapping themselves in darkspace forever if Sovy failed.
[/quote]
That is a logical fallacy. There is much more alternatives than you presented, reapers have full understanding of relay technology, so they could possibly do something with their end of relay.
And even your measuring of alternatives would be correct(which is obviously not) that doesn't make reapers an idiots - Vanguard plan was working for at least billion of years, they just no expected that to ever fail, and in such way(keepers).
[quote]
You asserted that they “lose completely nothing,” by waiting, without any attempt to counter my points to the contrary.
[/quote]
No, i stated that they arrived losing completely nothing, and that they could do that any time, without waiting.
And your point being that they losing some "strategical advantage" of surprise attack, and thus waiting, risking their discovery and races growing too strong.
Of course that was before ME3 making reapers into unstoppable force which would crush any possible opposition without effort. There is no need for them to even create that plan. And they don't care for their losses, otherwise they'd just took Citadel right after they arrived to a relay network, and not spreading to attack everyone at once, like they did in ME3.

[quote]
You think that the line “the collectors intend to hit earth” somehow proves they intended to hit earth with one ship, and that what Shepard thinks Harby is planning is what Harby is actually planning. You say you think that “stating something as explained, doesn't make it so” yet have used assertions of proof, like “conversations, and codex entires, confirms my point” (that was yourentire rebuttal to in-game proof I submitted) as proof itself constantly.

[/quote]
Either they were intended to hit Earth, and therefore Harbringer is a moron, thinking that one transport is enough to crush entire Systems Alliance; or they were just building reaper they could not finish ever, without reapers arrival, and risking their exposure and retaliation of council races, and therefore Harbringer is a moron, and impatient one.

Any way, Harbringer is a moron, and ME2 story makes no sense.

There is no definitive proof of either of those scenarios. But they both makes no sense.
[quote]
[quote]Maxster_ wrote… there is no need to waste time on orbital bombardment before other races who are actual threat.[/quote] The reapers seem to agree with you, because their presence on Tuchanka was small. Now you’re openly creating imaginary plot holes.
[/quote]
That is not a plothole, that just stupidity which makes no sense.
[quote]
[quote]Maxter_ wrote... ….(TIM) could…indirectly help them(krogans)... to ensure human dominance and survival, so it is worth to try. [/quote] Krogan Rebellions. Next.
[/quote]

Lol.

I know that you have no idea about politics.
And i like your racist idea, that krogans are evil by default. Especially when you make asspulls like krogans suddenly becoming major force after genophage cure. Magic ftw.
Politics, especially external, operates in possibilities and potential threats.

Krogans, being utterly defeated and condemned to confinement on their planet. They are not economic power, they barely survive. They have no fleets, therefore they are not a military power.
The one single reason they became a threat in krogans rebellions, is because they were used by salarians and asari as cannon fodder in rachni wars, and given their colonies, and massive help with infrastructure and ships because of that.
Without that kind of help, which requires massive investments(which SA obviously incapable of, and there is no need for such big help anyway) - krogans can never become a threat to anyone.

On the other hand, we have council race, big 3, whose potential is enormous, economic strength is vast, and military so poweful, it could easily crush Systems Alliance any time. Council treaties a very harsh, and ensure that no one will ever outgrow council military potential, thus ensuring everlasting dominance of big 3.

And then we have reapers, who are powerful non-negotiable enemy.

And now we must weight our decisions, and consequences of them.
Assuming that reapers will be defeated(other way, it is pointless to assume, everyone is dead), we have several opportunities.
Either we help krogans or we don't, for example.
If we help krogans with genophage, and in building infrastructure on their world(indirect investments) - that would not make them a significant threat, just let them survive.
But that would lead to deterioration of relationships with salarians and asari. Somehow mitigated by blaming Cerberus, but still, salarians are not idiots, they doing the same always, they know such methods.
On the other hand, krogans will be very grateful for that, thus making are good potential allies, although weak.
Also, that would make a great leverage for Council, when petitioning for human interests.

If we will not help krogans with genophage, and actually do the opposite - that will lead to a krogans extinction, and slight improvement of relations with salarians.
Of course that will not lead to a cancelling harsh council treaties, big 3 will not allow anyone to threat their everlasting dominance.
Thus, Systems Alliance will always be a minor council race(still better than elcor or volus), with no ability of independent politics, and risking to suffer a fate of batarians and krogans, if Council will see that as appropriate. And Council, being ruled by insidious Salarians and Asari, and warlike turians - will see that as appropriate.

That is of course, dangerous political play, but entire existance of Systems Alliance is. That is why Systems Alliance became strong.


Of course, you will just ignore anything i wrote, but i'm writing that for my own amusement.
[quote]
[quote]Maxter_ wrote... just remove derpstroyer and Cerberus as an enemy, and add salarians or krogans(from rival clans). [/quote]. Wow. Just…wow. Really? That was the coup de’ grace to your ailing logical composure. I’d tell you to play the game again, but with your track record you’d just come back with an out-of-context bit of dialogue where the Dalatrass talks about how dangerous the Krogans are that “proves” your point she would fight them before fighting the reapers. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie] [/quote]
You do realise, that salarians have no problem to fight krogans at all? Like when they did when applied new version of genophage?
If there is no other option to sabotage genophage cure(if Shepard refuse to do that), than to send STG batallion to guarantee this cure will not be applied, salarians will act without warning. They always act like that, i don't get how you ever missed that, unless you are doing it deliberately.

Modifié par Maxster_, 08 février 2013 - 06:14 .

[Dark_Caduceus]

I judge it by the ******-poor story telling, rather blatant pre-development lies, bad attention to detail and polish, insulting retcons, generic gameplay(though actually done pretty well), lazy cut corners, oh and the ending sucked alligator balls.

[Fixers0]

Big surprise,

[CSunkyst]

Abraham_uk wrote...

oh brother wrote...

I understand people having problems with a game (I had some too), I don't understand the incredible level of anger, that has not mellowed over almost a year. Like people giving ME3 a score of zero on metacritic. A score of, say, 5 - I won't have a problem with. But zero, or close to zero? If those people had not played Me or Me2, and were then given Me3 to review, there is no way they would score it so low.

Giving Mass Effect 3 a ZERO is insulting to the gamers who have played ZERO rated games.

Games such as ET, Superman 64 and CDI Zelda and Mario, Bubsy 3D and Big Rigs Over The Road Racing.

I know this is kind of a late reply but...

Playing ET didn't leave me feeling bitter and empty inside afterwards, Superman 64 didn't make me waste years anticipating the conclusion of a great story only to **** down my mouth at the end, Big Rigs has genuine comedy appeal, and Bubsy 3D didn't ruin the "Bubsy saga" turning the whole damn series into one long excruciating funeral march.  Those games ara bad games, but NONE of them left me feeling like my heart was torn out.

You may get some enjoyment out of it, but for me and many others Mass Effect 3 EARNED that 0/10 rating
 

Modifié par CSunkyst, 08 février 2013 - 09:13 .

[Atekimagus]

CSunkyst wrote...

You may get some enjoyment out of it, but for me and many others Mass Effect 3 EARNED that 0/10 rating
 

Well 0/10 is maybe a bit harsh but I understand were you are coming from.

It's difficult, on the one hand you have a story arc ingame like tuchanka were EVERYTHING falls into place just right and is easily one of the - if not the - best moments in the whole series, simply because it is so advanced in the storyline and still has your choices matter. (In hindsight I should have stopped playing after tuchanka and headcanon the rest).

On the other hand the ending was - for me - pretty much what the star wars prequels were. Such a huge disappointment, nonsensical and stupid that it made me loose almost all interest in the franchise. Alone for that it probably decerves a harsh rating.

Modifié par Atekimagus, 08 février 2013 - 10:29 .

[Lord Jaric]

I had a good time play Mass Effect 3, usually I let a lot of things slide that most people don't. However the ending was a big disappointment and had an effect on replayability. I was able to replay Mass Effect 2 over and over again with each time having the satisfaction of seeing the Collector Base blow up, something I had worked for. However with Mass Effect 3 I didn't get any satisfaction out of the ending. I was left with "that's it?" expression. I felt all my hard work was brushed aside and was forced to make a choice where none of the decisions where appealing. I don't have much motivation to replay the game; only continuing my playthroughs for dlcs.

As a fan I was quite disappointed and trust me that is not an easy feat; as I said I can let a lot slide.

As a writer I can't defend the so called "artistic integrity". I do believe that a writer has full right to take their story in any direction they want, however they also have a responsibility to their story as well. In the case of endings, an ending has to be earned, in the case of the Mass Effect trilogy, the ending was far below what it had earned.

Modifié par Lord Jaric, 08 février 2013 - 11:25 .

[mauro2222]

Indy_S wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Wrong... play the game again.

Come now, it's not that hard to see where he's coming from. (Very reduced) The bad guy wants to get to the throne room when he's already a palace guard. The details change it, sure, but that's still present.

I'm going to revive this thread because it really irks me that people couldn't understand the plot of ME1. Saren and Shepard were searching for the Conduit, not to use it as a backdoor, they needed to know what it does. Shepard because it may save the galaxy and Saren because Sovereign said so, the Reaper is pacient and will not act in a rush when something as crucial as the Citadel is not working. Sovereign had other paws at his service, way before Saren, so this means that its investigation has been going on for a while, and it lead to the Protheans and from the Protheans to the Conduit, what's this Conduit? is it a weapon? is it a hacking device? Sovereign needs to know, and when Saren found it, and discovered what it was, then you see Sovereign rushing like a mad machine to the Citadel, its confident and Saren simply used the Conduit to get back to the Citadel. Nobody knew what it was, that's the point of the race between Shep and Saren.

[Indy_S]

The context of that quote absolves me of a misunderstanding. The fact that Saren and Sovereign can be reduced to a singular 'the bad guy' allows it to be correct. And as I said in it, the details change it.

Thank you for setting the ME1 plot out for me to read again. I like good writing.