77 réponses à ce sujet

[Euteras]

[quote]SarEnyaDor wrote...
OP - ALL piracy is bad. If you think a company sucks, don't buy from it to teach them a lesson, don't steal from them.
[quote]

It sucks so I prated it.     .........Makes a lot of sense.

[Scimal]

Valcutio wrote...

I've seen some rumors circulating about the pirating of DA DLC that has been released and perhaps some that hasn't. This has to stop. When a "good" PC-supportive company like Bioware goes out of their way to provide as much content for us as possible, it's a slap in the face to each and every PC gamer when you or somebody you know uses that content without paying. By purchasing the DLC, it's proof that there's a demand for it.

I don't purchase it because I don't demand it. To me, DLC has never been worth the cost. $15 for 5 hours of fun? No thanks. I can go to 7 movies at the dollar theater down the road. For $15 I can purchase something like World of Goo and then play that (extremely fun) game for the next 30 hours.

What's worse are the stupid, insipid Xbox 360 DLCs which don't add content. Want a shirt for your fake avatar? It's only one REAL dollar! It's completely idiotic to me, and I can only see either those with too much money or teenagers wanting re-skins or DLC that only adds items.

Thus, I will almost never - ever - support the DLC model. The expansion model, however, I have supported continuously.

Piracy has a purpose and a place and it's sure as hell not to hurt "good" companies. When a certain horse armor DLC launched for 5 bucks, that was one thing. When a bad console port hits the shelves for full price and it's loaded with bugs and no mouse/keyboard support - ok, ok. But when you have a team of devs busting their behinds to continue support for a game that has helped revitalize and strengthen our gaming platform of choice and "somebody you know" decides to skip paying them for their effort - It's lame. It's beyond lame.

I generally agree. Good games should be bought, not pirated. However, since there wasn't a demo for DA:O, I can imagine people utilizing certain methods as a demo.

Beyond that, there's far less pirating going on than most developers would have you believe. The only time it becomes a real problem is when an alterior motive comes along. Spore became the most pirated game ever because EA was hurting actual customers with the DRC, and it was pirated to prove a point; the only people you're hurting with DRC are the people who pay for the game, because the piraters got it scott-free without any extraneous junk. EA has (hopefully) listened.

Show some respect. Cut the piracy bragging here when all it does is make you look like a tool. If you get PMed piracy links, report em.

- Valcutio

Only idiots brag about pirating. Usually teenagers who don't realize that the website logs very traceable IP addresses that lead straight back to their parents' ISP accounts.

Fundamentally, I agree, though. Good games should be bought to show support. The unfortunate truth is that so many games these days are junk that it's hard to know beforehand.

[DragonRageGT]

EricXIII wrote...
Like we dont know all those things already,cant you understand you wasting your time here? you really think that those that pirated the RtO will see this,regret what they have done and stop uploading it?either way this thread is going to be locked soon enough

It is worse than wasting his time, imo! Anyone here can really survive a full scrutiny of their lives? No bribe to avoid a speeding ticket? No crossing a red light? No cheating on anyone or at anything? No bullying anyone? No abusing anyone? No drinking and ruining any ocasion? No prejudice against anyone, hummiliating anyone, wishing bad things to anyone? No discriminating anyone on whatever issue like religion preferences, ideology, sexual orientation, place of birth? No smoking anything at college? I could go on forever...

I really hope that no one has a Yes to all those... it would make them a psycho killer probably.

But if anyone has a No to all those and anyother situation you may think of, send me your name. Better, send it directly to the Vatican so they can start your canonization process and soon you'll be declared a Saint!

Modifié par RageGT, 09 janvier 2010 - 06:03 .

[Darth_Trethon]

PC gamers don't matter because they are not the primary consumer base of DAO(the 360 and PS3 gamers are) and because PC gamers cry about getting crappy unsupported mods that are often incompatible with official DLCs or patches or simply don't work for no good reason instead of official DLCs. Then there are the pirates....tons of those too.

Look at the shelf space left in stores for PC games......it is going away and it's NOT because more gamers download games but because more gamers realize that gaming and PCs just don't mix right. As consoles evolve and start having MMOs like they are now then there will be no reason left for anyone to keep gaming on a PC. I won't bother to argue here because the PC fans will go on denial crusade about how there are no issues on the PC and that the PC support forums with all the well documented thousands of issues do not exist and how PC gaming is larger than ever but sales can't be documented due to digital downloads and a whole lot of other fantastical claims about dragons being real and such.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 09 janvier 2010 - 06:04 .

[DragonRageGT]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

PC gamers don't matter because they are not the primary consumer base of DAO(the 360 and PS3 gamers are) and because PC gamers cry about getting crappy unsupported mods that are often incompatible with official DLCs or patches or simply don't work for no good reason instead of official DLCs. Then there are the pirates....tons of those too.

Look at the shelf space left in stores for PC games......it is going away and it's NOT because more gamers download games but because more gamers realize that gaming and PCs just don't mix right. As consoles evolve and start having MMOs like they are now then there will be no reason left for anyone to keep gaming on a PC. I won't bother to argue here because the PC fans will go on denial crusade about how there are no issues on the PC and that the PC support forums with all the well documented thousands of issues do not exist and how PC gaming is larger than ever but sales can't be documented due to digital downloads and a whole lot of other fantastical claims about dragons being real and such.

I have no doubt that when you're saying is true we'll have no more PC games. No one likes losing money and why would a company release a game for a plataform that has no considerable customer base. WHEN it is true, it might happen. I suggest you sit while waiting for that or you might get really tired!

[addiction21]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

 whole lot of other fantastical claims

what like everything I just deleted out of your post.

Modifié par addiction21, 09 janvier 2010 - 06:10 .

[kansadoom]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

PC gamers don't matter because they are not the primary consumer base of DAO(the 360 and PS3 gamers are) and because PC gamers cry about getting crappy unsupported mods that are often incompatible with official DLCs or patches or simply don't work for no good reason instead of official DLCs. Then there are the pirates....tons of those too.

Look at the shelf space left in stores for PC games......it is going away and it's NOT because more gamers download games but because more gamers realize that gaming and PCs just don't mix right. As consoles evolve and start having MMOs like they are now then there will be no reason left for anyone to keep gaming on a PC. I won't bother to argue here because the PC fans will go on denial crusade about how there are no issues on the PC and that the PC support forums with all the well documented thousands of issues do not exist and how PC gaming is larger than ever but sales can't be documented due to digital downloads and a whole lot of other fantastical claims about dragons being real and such.

No they are not.......

Some games are just built to play on the PC DAO is one of them

Modifié par kansadoom, 09 janvier 2010 - 06:11 .

[Scimal]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

PC gamers don't matter because they are not the primary consumer base of DAO(the 360 and PS3 gamers are) and because PC gamers cry about getting crappy unsupported mods that are often incompatible with official DLCs or patches or simply don't work for no good reason instead of official DLCs. Then there are the pirates....tons of those too.

Bzzzt. The PC gamers were always the primary consumerbase for DA:O. That's not always true (and often isn't), but for this game, it was.

Look at the shelf space left in stores for PC games......it is going away and it's NOT because more gamers download games but because more gamers realize that gaming and PCs just don't mix right. As consoles evolve and start having MMOs like they are now then there will be no reason left for anyone to keep gaming on a PC. I won't bother to argue here because the PC fans will go on denial crusade about how there are no issues on the PC and that the PC support forums with all the well documented thousands of issues do not exist and how PC gaming is larger than ever but sales can't be documented due to digital downloads and a whole lot of other fantastical claims about dragons being real and such.

Consoles will never offer the platform capabilities of the PC. Ever. That's why you don't see MMOs on consoles as much of the time. In fact, aren't there only 3? Compared to the several hundred that have been developed for the PC?

No, the problem is that it's cheaper to buy a console, so more people have a gaming console than gaming PC. Plus, it's often easier to provide support for consoles, and easier to develop for consoles (since you know the exact hardware you're dealing with).

However, all of the top-grossing games have been on PC. WoW is a very good example, so is Starcraft.

The PC is not dying, it's just that consoles are currently the more attractive offer.

[Glorfindel7]

So if I decide that Bioware is a bad company because they haven't addressed any of the bugs/system incompatabilities that I have - and they haven't - or even seem to care - and they don't seem to: patches have been about gameplay, not fixing CTD issues many people have, then I gather it is OK to get the pirate version of the DLC? What absolute nonsense! If you steal a man's car, the law does not differentiate between stealing a good man's car and a bad man's car. Same with stealing intellectual property: if it is morally wrong sometimes, it is morally wrong all the time. I am the Global Sr Technologist for my company and my wife is a VP for a Biotech company. Our jobs to a significant extent depend on the development, use and protection of intellectual property for our companies. There are no circumstances under which I would get the pirated version of this DLC or anything. Sadly, I will now finish this game well before the release of the DLC and, as I see no real replay value in the game, will miss it entirely. Life sucks for me. Right, such a minor thing, move on people. Bioware is doing the right thing but with what appears to be their normal (abysmal) level of communication skills.

[Darth_Trethon]

RageGT wrote...

I have no doubt that when you're saying is true we'll have no more PC games. No one likes losing money and why would a company release a game for a plataform that has no considerable customer base. WHEN it is true, it might happen. I suggest you sit while waiting for that or you might get really tired!

Well they also do it because developing for consoles leaves the developing for PC part largely done and even a small market generates some sales so they have little reason not to do it. Though there IS a reason why DAO wasn't kept exclussive to the PC and that reason is that the game would have been a complete financial failure. They wouldn't have generated enough income to make up for their investments.

[kansadoom]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

RageGT wrote...

I have no doubt that when you're saying is true we'll have no more PC games. No one likes losing money and why would a company release a game for a plataform that has no considerable customer base. WHEN it is true, it might happen. I suggest you sit while waiting for that or you might get really tired!

Well they also do it because developing for consoles leaves the developing for PC part largely done and even a small market generates some sales so they have little reason not to do it. Though there IS a reason why DAO wasn't kept exclussive to the PC and that reason is that the game would have been a complete financial failure. They wouldn't have generated enough income to make up for their investments.

Do you have any data to back that up

[Sir Shendar]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

PC gamers don't matter because they are not the primary consumer base of DAO(the 360 and PS3 gamers are) and because PC gamers cry about getting crappy unsupported mods that are often incompatible with official DLCs or patches or simply don't work for no good reason instead of official DLCs. Then there are the pirates....tons of those too.

Look at the shelf space left in stores for PC games......it is going away and it's NOT because more gamers download games but because more gamers realize that gaming and PCs just don't mix right. As consoles evolve and start having MMOs like they are now then there will be no reason left for anyone to keep gaming on a PC. I won't bother to argue here because the PC fans will go on denial crusade about how there are no issues on the PC and that the PC support forums with all the well documented thousands of issues do not exist and how PC gaming is larger than ever but sales can't be documented due to digital downloads and a whole lot of other fantastical claims about dragons being real and such.

For starters, please don't present your opinion as a fact. If you cannot manage your PC well then yes, console is a good choice for you. I will never trade versatility of PC gaming for simplified console gaming. There are thousands of fixes for these aforementioned thousands of issues so don't give me this crap about broken state of PC gaming.

[addiction21]

kansadoom wrote...


Do you have any data to back that up

I can assure you he does not. He was drawn here because "PC" was in the title. He has been on this crusade of misinformation and bs for a long time now. One of the reasons he has his profile set to private so you can not just look at the list of bs he has been spewing for a long time.

Modifié par addiction21, 09 janvier 2010 - 06:24 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

I am supporting BW. I don't pirate any games.



Still, I hope the die hard fans on this forum become more realistic about BioWare's sloppy QA and don't accept the bugs and quirks in the game and the site. No reason to become rude about it, though. But a more critical attitude would be appreciated.

[Dr Bawbag]

Scimal wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

PC gamers don't matter because they are not the primary consumer base of DAO(the 360 and PS3 gamers are) and because PC gamers cry about getting crappy unsupported mods that are often incompatible with official DLCs or patches or simply don't work for no good reason instead of official DLCs. Then there are the pirates....tons of those too.

Bzzzt. The PC gamers were always the primary consumerbase for DA:O. That's not always true (and often isn't), but for this game, it was.

Look at the shelf space left in stores for PC games......it is going away and it's NOT because more gamers download games but because more gamers realize that gaming and PCs just don't mix right. As consoles evolve and start having MMOs like they are now then there will be no reason left for anyone to keep gaming on a PC. I won't bother to argue here because the PC fans will go on denial crusade about how there are no issues on the PC and that the PC support forums with all the well documented thousands of issues do not exist and how PC gaming is larger than ever but sales can't be documented due to digital downloads and a whole lot of other fantastical claims about dragons being real and such.

Consoles will never offer the platform capabilities of the PC. Ever. That's why you don't see MMOs on consoles as much of the time. In fact, aren't there only 3? Compared to the several hundred that have been developed for the PC?

No, the problem is that it's cheaper to buy a console, so more people have a gaming console than gaming PC. Plus, it's often easier to provide support for consoles, and easier to develop for consoles (since you know the exact hardware you're dealing with).

However, all of the top-grossing games have been on PC. WoW is a very good example, so is Starcraft.

The PC is not dying, it's just that consoles are currently the more attractive offer.

That's a bold claim to make and that's why I've... erm bolded it

I'd be interested to see how the likes WoW stand up to the likes of Mario, Halo etc in the units shifted department.

Of course the PC is always going to be the better performer, no one can dispute that and i don't think anyone is actually disputing that fact.

[Valcutio]

A couple of you are under the impression that if you look down on pirates enough and say, "no, no, no" that they'll eventually go away. It's really naive. It's something that's influenced every facet of the entertainment medium and has changed it for better or worse. The worse being DRM and the better being conveniences like DLC, itunes, hulu etc.

To entertain the idea that ALL internet pirates are uncaring thugs that steal for the sake of stealing is silly. These are intelligent and rational people (for the most part). My post was directed towards those people who pass this way, because I imagine that people who have pirated the game may also be interested in the same things as us "normies."

Now, on to the discussion of what I meant by "good" company since my post is being dissected. Bioware has always been supportive of the PC community. Let's put aside games like BG, Icewind Dale and Planescape: Torment and focus on KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Dragon Age: Origins and the upcoming SW:TOR. Now, a few of those games went to the consoles first and were later ported to the PC. We're not talking sloppy ports here but fully fleshed out mouse/keyboard supported games. Were there bugs? Yes, but for the most part they were handled. Each game received a lot of dev attention and care.

What other game company can say the same thing? Blizzard and Valve are also "good" PC-Supportive companies but they're pretty much expected to be by this point. Bioware has done excellent on all platforms and their attention to the PC has genuinely seemed to stem from caring about the platform as much as we do.

Now, if there's a good of COURSE there's a "bad" right? Right? Bueller? I'm not sure to the degree I can discuss other game companies in a negative light here but right off the top of my head I think we all can recognize Infinity Ward as one such company. MW2 continues to be 60 dollars for the PC because they refuse to drop the price, even through the holiday season - even with the console versions dropping in price. The only game on Steam to not receive a price reduction. No dedicated server support and no modding? Nobody can tell me they like their PC community. It almost seems they resent us.

Now, I'm not advocating piracy. I'm just saying as a community we should care MORE about good companies and less about the ones that ignore or mistreat us.

If you can't understand this... as I have spelled it out like I would to a small child... then we have nothing further to discuss.

Modifié par Valcutio, 09 janvier 2010 - 06:34 .

[magicfem]

i agree i went out and bought it cause it makes me feel good to pay money for a company that made a good game stealing is never good and if u really want it buy it if u cant afford it then save up i waited ages to buy this and ended up trading games in to get rest together to purchase it and i must say its well worth it

[Yozaro]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

because more gamers realize that gaming and PCs just don't mix right.

Gaming and PCs just don't mix right? The console versions are all just
too clumsy. Anything that requires a good user interface is made for
PC. Or have you ever seen a proper strategy game on a console? I haven't.

Yes, there are more console players but that doesn't mean PC wouldn't be good for gaming.

Darth_Trethon wrote...

As consoles evolve and start having MMOs like they are now then there will be no reason left for anyone to keep gaming on a PC.

Consoles and their games are expensive, keyboard and mouse are a must (and they also need to be supported) since the controllers are good only for simple arcade games. The user interfaces of console games are extremely clumsy, even though the developers have tried to make them simple.

So I have plenty of reasons to keep gaming on PC, but absolutely none to buy a console and forget PC.

[errant_knight]

If your neighbors leaves their doors unlocked and go away for two weeks, you still suck if you steal from them. It doesn't matter that you can't afford their stuff, that they pissed you off for one reason or another, or that they made it easy. You still suck.

Modifié par errant_knight, 09 janvier 2010 - 07:37 .

[T1l]

As long as Bioware continue to create a quality product, I'm happy to support them.



When a company turns its back on the PC community, that's when piracy runs rife. Modern Warfare 2 is the poster-child for that very reason; Activision/Blizzard and Infinity Ward don't deserve a penny.

[Fantus]

I don't condone piracy, but I still do not and will not buy any DLC as long as it's DRM infected. DRM is not acceptable, period. As for the "piracy" discussion as such - it's really, really stupid to waste precious mental energy complaining about it. Piracy is a given, as much as bad weather is a given. It's stupid to complain about bad weather and it's stupid to complain about piracy. Both things do happen and nothing will ever change it. When marketing content, base your numbers on the people who are ready to buy your content, not those who are going to pirate it. DRM will only drive customers away who otherwise would buy the content, such as me. I bought DA because I it was offered in DVD, without any DRM crap on it. I didn't buy Mass Effect, despite I own _every_ other Bioware game. Guess why!

[DragonRageGT]

I'll just say this!

Please BioWare... rush and release the DLC Return of Ostagar as soon as possible! I'm dying to pay for it! It is simply amazing! Got tears on my eyes.... just to think of playing it!

[addiction21]

RageGT wrote...

I'll just say this!
Please BioWare... rush and release the DLC Return of Ostagar as soon as possible! I'm dying to pay for it! It is simply amazing! Got tears on my eyes.... just to think of playing it!

Sten would be disapointed with you...

[KahnyaGnorc]

Piracy IS bad no matter the company. I hate Microsoft as much as the next person, but I still won't pirate their software.



HOWEVER, pirating from companies with a history of making top-notched, quality software hurts the community moreso than pirating from companies that make hack games that try to sell based on hype or on franchise, rather than on the quality of the product. Now, the real thing you should do is buy the stuff from the former and neither buy nor pirate from the latter, but I can see why pirating from the former could be considered a worse crime than pirating from the latter.

[Bullets McDeath]

So just to be clear, it's not pirating stuff when you do it. Because you pirate from "evil" companies ::snortle:: and even then, only when the time is right? Surely you can wrap your head around the concept that everyone is going to have different standards, and that's where the plauge of piracy comes from. All platforms can be pirated, oftentimes quite easily. I could pirate every game I want to play, but I pay for them instead. Even pieces of crap that last 8 hours like [Prototype].

Where the real plauge/problem with pirating comes in, everyone draws the line on what is "ok" to pirate somewhere different. You'll pirate horse armor, but not Return to Ostagar. Somebody else is the other way around. The simple fact of the matter is, pirating is always stealing, stealing is never good. Now, if you don't want to feel bad about having stolen something, that's your perogative. But that doesn't meant it wasn't illegal or that you didn't steal it. It just means you don't care.

Modifié par outlaworacle, 09 janvier 2010 - 07:36 .