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[Maniccc]

Javik was a narrowminded, fanatical, supremacist jerk.

Liara just witnessed her homeworld fall to Reapers, and also learned that what she had been taught all her life about her own species was at least in part a lie. Add in all the desperation of a fight for existence, and sure, she's upset. She feels helpless. So of course she has a breakdown. Javik was not putting her in her place, he was just being insensitive and ignorant, not knowing how to respond to an emotionally distressed Liara.

Javik does the same thing on the Citadel when he starts to give that speech, and Shep has to para-interrupt the idiot. Javik is kind of stupid.

Modifié par Maniccc, 02 février 2013 - 05:11 .

[JBPBRC]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Doesn't Traynor actually only do two things and has other people's help to acheive them? She's a communication's specialist, monitoring communications is her job, and she monitors communications successfully. 

Of course, it's still annoying as someone who likes Liara and the concept of her becoming the Shadow Broker, to go through the game and have Liara's single massive contribution to the plot happen in a comic I never knew about, and all the other stuff she does happen off screen, only to find out the things that would have made her actually useful as the Broker, were given to Traynor simply to give her a larger role in the story and justify her existence past being the lesbian romance option, even though it makes more sense both logically and narratively to have Liara do something visible after having an entire DLC devoted to her. 

I mean, even if you don't like Liara, if she's going to be in the game so much, wouldn't you rather she did something worthwhile? 

Yeah, rant, whatever. 

This. 

[CynicalShep]

Maniccc wrote...

Javik was a narrowminded, fanatical, supremacist jerk.

Liara just witnessed her homeworld fall to Reapers, and also learned that what she had been taught all her life about her own species was at least in part a lie. Add in all the desperation of a fight for existence, and sure, she's upset. She feels helpless. So of course she has a breakdown. Javik was not putting her in her place, he was just being insensitive and ignorant, not knowing how to respond to an emotionally distressed Liara.

Javik does the same thing on the Citadel when he starts to give that speech, and Shep has to para-interrupt the idiot. Javik is kind of stupid.

While I can definitely sympathize with Liara's situation you're not giving Javik nearly as much credit as he deserves. The man was born on the brink of his civilization's extinction. All he ever saw was planets burning and people dying. All he knew is holding a gun and shooting the abominations Reapers made of his people. And unlike Liara, mind you, he actually witnessed his people's extinction. If anything, I'm pretty sure that I would be significantly more cynical, darker and maybe even less sympathetic. I mean, every last one of my people were killed or turned into mindless husks and you're losing a planet? Javik was coping pretty damn well, all things considered

[crimzontearz]

spirosz wrote...

You two so seriuz on defendin blue's clues

your idiocy slides on the inclined plane of my indifference


 
My fault for thinking you could offer anything more than childishness

[3DandBeyond]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Come on, everyone knew that was going to happen. Once we found a real Prothean, we knew they weren't going to be all benevolent and kind, right? We were going to find the Romulans.

Had to happen.  They were like gods and somewhat legendary, but are just one more example of arrogant screw ups who advance people for their own devious needs.  The fact that they actually created very little of the tech that is lying around and that all that stuff that is somewhat worshipped by the galaxy is reaper tech should give the galaxy pause.  I mean the galaxy just kept deciding to squat on the citadel and that was the head reapers home, too?  To me, that's a bigger issue than Liara's "worship" of the Protheans.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 02 février 2013 - 09:59 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

What happens if you don't use the paragon interrupt when Liara and Javik are arguing?

[KiwiQuiche]

CynicalShep wrote...

Maniccc wrote...

Javik was a narrowminded, fanatical, supremacist jerk.

Liara just witnessed her homeworld fall to Reapers, and also learned that what she had been taught all her life about her own species was at least in part a lie. Add in all the desperation of a fight for existence, and sure, she's upset. She feels helpless. So of course she has a breakdown. Javik was not putting her in her place, he was just being insensitive and ignorant, not knowing how to respond to an emotionally distressed Liara.

Javik does the same thing on the Citadel when he starts to give that speech, and Shep has to para-interrupt the idiot. Javik is kind of stupid.

While I can definitely sympathize with Liara's situation you're not giving Javik nearly as much credit as he deserves. The man was born on the brink of his civilization's extinction. All he ever saw was planets burning and people dying. All he knew is holding a gun and shooting the abominations Reapers made of his people. And unlike Liara, mind you, he actually witnessed his people's extinction. If anything, I'm pretty sure that I would be significantly more cynical, darker and maybe even less sympathetic. I mean, every last one of my people were killed or turned into mindless husks and you're losing a planet? Javik was coping pretty damn well, all things considered

Indeed. Javik is actually keeping his sh!t together pretty damn well all things considered. Sure he's pretty bitter and snarky but who wouldn't? He hasn't gone insane or suicidal (unless you make him touch the shard) which is gorram impressive.

In Liara's case after Thessia she either sits on her bed and cries or starts screaming at another crew mate and nearly attacks him for telling her the truth. Javik had no reason to be 'sensitive' to her, since she was the one starting sh!t in the first place, Javik was just telling her what really happened with the asari. Remember that awesome line "You can't handle the truth"?

Javik on the Citadel- he isn't stupid, he knows full well how fcuked everyone is and he isn't in the habit of lying to simply comfort people.

[KiwiQuiche]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

What happens if you don't use the paragon interrupt when Liara and Javik are arguing?

She yells a bit more then leaves. Javik doesn't really care and will go be the Hanar God at the end afterwards, rather than write a book.

[3DandBeyond]

JBPBRC wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Doesn't Traynor actually only do two things and has other people's help to acheive them? She's a communication's specialist, monitoring communications is her job, and she monitors communications successfully. 

Of course, it's still annoying as someone who likes Liara and the concept of her becoming the Shadow Broker, to go through the game and have Liara's single massive contribution to the plot happen in a comic I never knew about, and all the other stuff she does happen off screen, only to find out the things that would have made her actually useful as the Broker, were given to Traynor simply to give her a larger role in the story and justify her existence past being the lesbian romance option, even though it makes more sense both logically and narratively to have Liara do something visible after having an entire DLC devoted to her. 

I mean, even if you don't like Liara, if she's going to be in the game so much, wouldn't you rather she did something worthwhile? 

Yeah, rant, whatever. 

This. 

Yeah, Traynor I think figures out Sanctuary and after Shepard goes there, and then has the real lead to TIM's base which is where it always has been (which Miranda could have told them and they at least could have checked out or at least kept a check on).  After that mission, Hackett says he was against them going there (again the brainiac surfaces).  I mean, come on, you have information of a possible huge base of operations for Cerberus, but oh oh, I didn't think it was a good idea to go there.  But, by all means go under an ocean to try and find these things that may or may not exist that may or may not want to fight the reapers.  Don't try and find TIM who has absconded with Vendetta, that would be bad.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 02 février 2013 - 09:58 .

[DirtySHISN0]

The Night Mammoth wrote...
I mean, even if you don't like Liara, if she's going to be in the game so much, wouldn't you rather she did something worthwhile? 

So long as i had the option to avoid it.

I used to like Liara until she became unavoidable.

[KiwiQuiche]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Yeah, Traynor I think figures out Sanctuary and after Shepard goes there, and then has the real lead to TIM's base which is where it always has been (which Miranda could have told them and they at least could have checked out or at least kept a check on).  After that mission, Hackett says he was against them going there (again the brainiac surfaces).  I mean, come on, you have information of a possible huge base of operations for Cerberus, but oh oh, I didn't think it was a good idea to go there.  But, by all means go under an ocean to try and find these things that may or may not exist that may or may not want to fight the reapers.  Don't try and find TIM who has absconded with Vendetta, that would be bad.

TIM moved his base on the other side of the star. The Alliance didn't think to check there.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

What happens if you don't use the paragon interrupt when Liara and Javik are arguing?

She yells a bit more then leaves. Javik doesn't really care and will go be the Hanar God at the end afterwards, rather than write a book.

And if you romance her after that, you get the "angry" sex scene.

[Kel Riever]

No. I do like Liara, but that is a lot less of a reason than...

Javik is a stupid character.

[spirosz]

crimzontearz wrote...

spirosz wrote...

You two so seriuz on defendin blue's clues

your idiocy slides on the inclined plane of my indifference


 
My fault for thinking you could offer anything more than childishness

Aw, that's cute.  

[3DandBeyond]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Yeah, Traynor I think figures out Sanctuary and after Shepard goes there, and then has the real lead to TIM's base which is where it always has been (which Miranda could have told them and they at least could have checked out or at least kept a check on).  After that mission, Hackett says he was against them going there (again the brainiac surfaces).  I mean, come on, you have information of a possible huge base of operations for Cerberus, but oh oh, I didn't think it was a good idea to go there.  But, by all means go under an ocean to try and find these things that may or may not exist that may or may not want to fight the reapers.  Don't try and find TIM who has absconded with Vendetta, that would be bad.

TIM moved his base on the other side of the star. The Alliance didn't think to check there.

Ha ha, that had to be it.

[SkullStrife]

Javik didn´t exist in my universe... and I love Liara, so...

[KiwiQuiche]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

What happens if you don't use the paragon interrupt when Liara and Javik are arguing?

She yells a bit more then leaves. Javik doesn't really care and will go be the Hanar God at the end afterwards, rather than write a book.

And if you romance her after that, you get the "angry" sex scene.

Lmao what? I haven't tried ignoring the paragon interupt on my Liaramance playthroughs. Suppose I could give it a go. 

[Han Shot First]

CynicalShep wrote...

Maniccc wrote...

Javik was a narrowminded, fanatical, supremacist jerk.

Liara just witnessed her homeworld fall to Reapers, and also learned that what she had been taught all her life about her own species was at least in part a lie. Add in all the desperation of a fight for existence, and sure, she's upset. She feels helpless. So of course she has a breakdown. Javik was not putting her in her place, he was just being insensitive and ignorant, not knowing how to respond to an emotionally distressed Liara.

Javik does the same thing on the Citadel when he starts to give that speech, and Shep has to para-interrupt the idiot. Javik is kind of stupid.

While I can definitely sympathize with Liara's situation you're not giving Javik nearly as much credit as he deserves. The man was born on the brink of his civilization's extinction. All he ever saw was planets burning and people dying. All he knew is holding a gun and shooting the abominations Reapers made of his people. And unlike Liara, mind you, he actually witnessed his people's extinction. If anything, I'm pretty sure that I would be significantly more cynical, darker and maybe even less sympathetic. I mean, every last one of my people were killed or turned into mindless husks and you're losing a planet? Javik was coping pretty damn well, all things considered

I agee.

While I can also sympathize with Liara, Javik is just a product of his cycle. He's literally known nothing but war, horror, suffering, and death. I think that would make anyone a little emotionally cold.

Javik even says as much in one conversation he has with Shepard. I don't remember the exact words, but Javik says that they are all products of their time and all he's known is war, and that had he been born in the current cycle perhaps he would be the noble scholar she (Liara) wants him to be. He then adds that his life experiences have shaped him, "as stone is shaped by the one who carves it. The stone has no choice in the form it will take. You and I Commander...war is our sculptor. And we are prisoners to its design."

On a side note, Javik gets some great lines. His trollish comments tend to get the most attention on the BSN, but he also says some of the more profound stuff in the series.

[Metalunatic]

David7204 wrote...

I can't think of a single time Liara spoke about any kind of 'asari supremacy,' passively or no.

QFT. I need proof, OP, or it didn't happen.

[Yuqi]

Male-shep puts Liara in her place(beneath him), all night long. ;D

[gisle]

Volc19 wrote...

While I didn't hate Liara, I didn't like that she was basically forced to be friends with me by the game. Why can't I be mean to her?

So, it is refreshing to see a character vent some of my dislike since the one I directly operate is unable to.

That is the problem with Shepard in ME3. (S)he is not your Shepard anymore.

[Yuqi]

Gisle-Aune wrote...

Volc19 wrote...

While I didn't hate Liara, I didn't like that she was basically forced to be friends with me by the game. Why can't I be mean to her?

So, it is refreshing to see a character vent some of my dislike since the one I directly operate is unable to.

That is the problem with Shepard in ME3. (S)he is not your Shepard anymore.

No, (S)he is  better in ME3.:innocent:

[KiwiQuiche]

Yuqi wrote...

Gisle-Aune wrote...

Volc19 wrote...

While I didn't hate Liara, I didn't like that she was basically forced to be friends with me by the game. Why can't I be mean to her?

So, it is refreshing to see a character vent some of my dislike since the one I directly operate is unable to.

That is the problem with Shepard in ME3. (S)he is not your Shepard anymore.

No, (S)he is  better in ME3.:innocent:

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 03 février 2013 - 12:15 .

[Hazegurl]

Maniccc wrote...

Javik was a narrowminded, fanatical, supremacist jerk.

Liara just witnessed her homeworld fall to Reapers, and also learned that what she had been taught all her life about her own species was at least in part a lie. Add in all the desperation of a fight for existence, and sure, she's upset. She feels helpless. So of course she has a breakdown. Javik was not putting her in her place, he was just being insensitive and ignorant, not knowing how to respond to an emotionally distressed Liara.

Javik does the same thing on the Citadel when he starts to give that speech, and Shep has to para-interrupt the idiot. Javik is kind of stupid.

Awww, Javik is evil cause he doesn't pull out a violin for Liara.

He was born in the middle of a war with the reapers and pretty much saw them at their absolute worst. He tells Shep that they haven't even seen what reapers are capable of yet and what we were already witnessing from them was horrible. If Liara didn't want Javik's opinion then she shouldn't have went to into his room. Javik should have slapped her in the mouth so she would shut up. She obviously knows nothing as her trip back to her homeworld proved. Whocares if she is emotionally distressed? She's not the first nor the last to lose her homeworld.

And what's wrong with telling those idiots on the Citadel that they may die. Javik was just being real. These are the same races of people who allowed their council to ho hum Shepard's warnings of a reaper invasion for years and went into this war totally unprepared. Especially the a**holes who sat on the Citadel pretending a war wasn't even happening. Javik is real, simple as that. Although I do interrupt him, sometimes.

[CynicalShep]

Yuqi wrote...

Gisle-Aune wrote...

Volc19 wrote...

While I didn't hate Liara, I didn't like that she was basically forced to be friends with me by the game. Why can't I be mean to her?

So, it is refreshing to see a character vent some of my dislike since the one I directly operate is unable to.

That is the problem with Shepard in ME3. (S)he is not your Shepard anymore.

No, (S)he is  better in ME3.:innocent:

Indeed (s)he is. A better soldier, a better friend and a better lover (where applicable)

Modifié par CynicalShep, 03 février 2013 - 12:22 .