279 réponses à ce sujet

[Dr_Extrem]

CynicalShep wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

Gisle-Aune wrote...

Volc19 wrote...

While I didn't hate Liara, I didn't like that she was basically forced to be friends with me by the game. Why can't I be mean to her?

So, it is refreshing to see a character vent some of my dislike since the one I directly operate is unable to.

That is the problem with Shepard in ME3. (S)he is not your Shepard anymore.

No, (S)he is  better in ME3.:innocent:

Indeed (s)he is. A better soldier, a better friend and a better lover (where applicable)

shepard: "hey thane .... look at this amazing new turian assault rifle! ... thane? .. are you listening?"

[KiwiQuiche]

^ What the hell are those two doing anyway?

[CynicalShep]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

^ What the hell are those two doing anyway?

You mean the dancers or the art critics?

[KiwiQuiche]

CynicalShep wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

^ What the hell are those two doing anyway?

You mean the dancers or the art critics?

The dancers. It looks like Thane is trying to grab Kai Lame's hand while he's trying to do Spirit Fingers.

[kalasaurus]

Maniccc wrote...

Javik was a narrowminded, fanatical, supremacist jerk.

Liara just witnessed her homeworld fall to Reapers, and also learned that what she had been taught all her life about her own species was at least in part a lie. Add in all the desperation of a fight for existence, and sure, she's upset. She feels helpless. So of course she has a breakdown. Javik was not putting her in her place, he was just being insensitive and ignorant, not knowing how to respond to an emotionally distressed Liara.

Javik does the same thing on the Citadel when he starts to give that speech, and Shep has to para-interrupt the idiot. Javik is kind of stupid.

If Javik went into Liara's room while she was crying on her bed and went "Ha ha, primitive.  Let me taste your tears as your great race falls", then I'd agree.

As mentioned before, she goes into his room to start a fight.  She actually almost threatens to physically harm the guy- who was just minding his own damn business.  The scene is sooo much worse if you don't bring Javik to Thessia.

[Yuqi]

CynicalShep wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

Gisle-Aune wrote...

Volc19 wrote...

While I didn't hate Liara, I didn't like that she was basically forced to be friends with me by the game. Why can't I be mean to her?

So, it is refreshing to see a character vent some of my dislike since the one I directly operate is unable to.

That is the problem with Shepard in ME3. (S)he is not your Shepard anymore.

No, (S)he is  better in ME3.:innocent:

Indeed (s)he is. A better soldier, a better friend and a better lover (where applicable)

Shepard is a true friend until the end.:innocent:

Modifié par Yuqi, 03 février 2013 - 12:37 .

[Vubica]

I kinda hate her so yeah, she was 3 diff people in 3 games, w/o actual real character growth, her LI story was paid more attention than anyone and she is kind of shoved down our troaths, I kinda h8-ed the voice acting as well, the "Loud Whispering" over dramatic issue i have with Jen.Hales voice acting as well

[CynicalShep]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

^ What the hell are those two doing anyway?

You mean the dancers or the art critics?

The dancers. It looks like Thane is trying to grab Kai Lame's hand while he's trying to do Spirit Fingers.

I'm trying to make sense of it as well. To me it looks like Kai stole something and Thane is trying to open up his hand, but being the gentleman that he is Krios refuses to pistol whip him. Either that or some really cool rap handshake

[Vubica]

David7204 wrote...

I'm curious. If Liara crying because her homeworld was overrun is an 'overreaction,' what exactly do the behavior and comments on the BSN qualify as?

I Grew up in a place that was over run by invaders, a lot of the people in the world did, we didnt cry, we fought back...

[KiwiQuiche]

Vubica wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I'm curious. If Liara crying because her homeworld was overrun is an 'overreaction,' what exactly do the behavior and comments on the BSN qualify as?

I Grew up in a place that was over run by invaders, a lot of the people in the world did, we didnt cry, we fought back...

Humans fight better on the defense. As with Liara...I think she ranted on too much- Garrus only really brings up Palaven burning when they aren't under attack and he only does it once on the mission. Liara goes on and on about Thessia. As if I give a sh!t.

Don't even get me started on her and the monastry. "Goddess that was a person!"

Yeah what the fcuk did you think husks were?

[JBPBRC]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Vubica wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I'm curious. If Liara crying because her homeworld was overrun is an 'overreaction,' what exactly do the behavior and comments on the BSN qualify as?

I Grew up in a place that was over run by invaders, a lot of the people in the world did, we didnt cry, we fought back...

Humans fight better on the defense. As with Liara...I think she ranted on too much- Garrus only really brings up Palaven burning when they aren't under attack and he only does it once on the mission. Liara goes on and on about Thessia. As if I give a sh!t.

Don't even get me started on her and the monastry. "Goddess that was a person!"

Yeah what the fcuk did you think husks were?

Yeah...I mean, come on Liara. Those Cannibal things and those bigger Brute things? That's TWO people in one package. Where's your horror with those poor saps?

[CynicalShep]

JBPBRC wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Vubica wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I'm curious. If Liara crying because her homeworld was overrun is an 'overreaction,' what exactly do the behavior and comments on the BSN qualify as?

I Grew up in a place that was over run by invaders, a lot of the people in the world did, we didnt cry, we fought back...

Humans fight better on the defense. As with Liara...I think she ranted on too much- Garrus only really brings up Palaven burning when they aren't under attack and he only does it once on the mission. Liara goes on and on about Thessia. As if I give a sh!t.

Don't even get me started on her and the monastry. "Goddess that was a person!"

Yeah what the fcuk did you think husks were?

Yeah...I mean, come on Liara. Those Cannibal things and those bigger Brute things? That's TWO people in one package. Where's your horror with those poor saps?

In that case Praetorians are a multi-pack 

[kalasaurus]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Vubica wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I'm curious. If Liara crying because her homeworld was overrun is an 'overreaction,' what exactly do the behavior and comments on the BSN qualify as?

I Grew up in a place that was over run by invaders, a lot of the people in the world did, we didnt cry, we fought back...

Humans fight better on the defense. As with Liara...I think she ranted on too much- Garrus only really brings up Palaven burning when they aren't under attack and he only does it once on the mission. Liara goes on and on about Thessia. As if I give a sh!t.

Don't even get me started on her and the monastry. "Goddess that was a person!"

Yeah what the fcuk did you think husks were?

Shepard should have had the option (i.e. turned off the autodialogue) to tell Liara she's not coming to Thessia.  Make it Renegade, just to say that she's emotionally compromised and it would be better if others came for this seemingly important mission (that's supposed to decide the fate of the war).  She wasn't crucial like on Eden Prime, or EDI on Chronos.

"Nice" Shepard still brings her and everyone's happy.

Modifié par GlassElephant, 03 février 2013 - 01:10 .

[JBPBRC]

CynicalShep wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Vubica wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I'm curious. If Liara crying because her homeworld was overrun is an 'overreaction,' what exactly do the behavior and comments on the BSN qualify as?

I Grew up in a place that was over run by invaders, a lot of the people in the world did, we didnt cry, we fought back...

Humans fight better on the defense. As with Liara...I think she ranted on too much- Garrus only really brings up Palaven burning when they aren't under attack and he only does it once on the mission. Liara goes on and on about Thessia. As if I give a sh!t.

Don't even get me started on her and the monastry. "Goddess that was a person!"

Yeah what the fcuk did you think husks were?

Yeah...I mean, come on Liara. Those Cannibal things and those bigger Brute things? That's TWO people in one package. Where's your horror with those poor saps?

In that case Praetorians are a multi-pack 

Makes sense.

Harbinger: I AM ASSUMING DIRE--

Other Reapers: Yeah yeah we get it. Crack open a husk already, the game's starting. Halftime show should be great. 

[The Night Mammoth]

spirosz wrote...

You two so seriuz on defendin blue's clues

Hardly, but I prefer it when people criticize things that I like using reason and logic.

[The Night Mammoth]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...
I mean, even if you don't like Liara, if she's going to be in the game so much, wouldn't you rather she did something worthwhile? 

So long as i had the option to avoid it.

I used to like Liara until she became unavoidable.

That's kinda beside the point though. If she's going to be unavoidable to some extent, like she is, it would be better if there are significant reasons for that involving her being the Shadow Broker.

[JBPBRC]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...
I mean, even if you don't like Liara, if she's going to be in the game so much, wouldn't you rather she did something worthwhile? 

So long as i had the option to avoid it.

I used to like Liara until she became unavoidable.

That's kinda beside the point though. If she's going to be unavoidable to some extent, like she is, it would be better if there are significant reasons for that involving her being the Shadow Broker.

But then what would poor little Traynor do?

[Barquiel]

Han Shot First wrote...

While I can also sympathize with Liara, Javik is just a product of his cycle. He's literally known nothing but war, horror, suffering, and death. I think that would make anyone a little emotionally cold.

Javik even says as much in one conversation he has with Shepard. I don't remember the exact words, but Javik says that they are all products of their time and all he's known is war, and that had he been born in the current cycle perhaps he would be the noble scholar she (Liara) wants him to be. He then adds that his life experiences have shaped him, "as stone is shaped by the one who carves it. The stone has no choice in the form it will take. You and I Commander...war is our sculptor. And we are prisoners to its design."

On a side note, Javik gets some great lines. His trollish comments tend to get the most attention on the BSN, but he also says some of the more profound stuff in the series.

That doesn't justify it, imo.

If he would be some stoic warrior who knows not to be a dick but isn't going to offer his shoulder/comfort Liara...that's something I could accept...and it would be more than understandable.

But he's simply a jerk who stirs Liara's pain and grief. That has nothing to do with pragmatism or being honest. That's just being a needless dick (not to mention it's counterproductive to the mission), which Javik is. And that's why I refuse him and his DLC.

Modifié par Barquiel, 03 février 2013 - 01:40 .

[DirtySHISN0]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

That's kinda beside the point though. If she's going to be unavoidable to some extent, like she is, it would be better if there are significant reasons for that involving her being the Shadow Broker.

See, i like where you went with that.

Not sure i will be able to explain why i feel this way, but i'll try.

I liked Lair of the shadow broker, but i didn't like how it was carried through to ME3 regardless of whether people actually bought it. The consequence of the DLC should be Liara as Shadow broker in ME3 and the consequence of not buying it should be Traynor as your primary source of information. Not both, both character's roles are devalued because of it.

I bought Shadow broker and have played it a few times, but i would at least be able to avoid the extra Liara stuff in ME3 by simply not playing LotSB in ME2 on a single save file.

I don't mind stuff like thessia - who else should accompany us on the Asari homewolrd?. Just the stuff that is largely unimportant that we have to involve Liara in anyway, which i guess includes Thessia. You get what i mean though. I agree she needs screen time, none at all would be an injustice to her fans, but as it is it feels too forced and unavoidable.


There, i tried. 

Little explanation of my character tastes;                        (if it helps)
ME1 favs                  →                  ME3 favs
-Liara      then       Time      now    -Legion
-Tali                                                  -Jack
-Garrus                                            - Mordin

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 03 février 2013 - 02:02 .

[JBPBRC]

Barquiel wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

While I can also sympathize with Liara, Javik is just a product of his cycle. He's literally known nothing but war, horror, suffering, and death. I think that would make anyone a little emotionally cold.

Javik even says as much in one conversation he has with Shepard. I don't remember the exact words, but Javik says that they are all products of their time and all he's known is war, and that had he been born in the current cycle perhaps he would be the noble scholar she (Liara) wants him to be. He then adds that his life experiences have shaped him, "as stone is shaped by the one who carves it. The stone has no choice in the form it will take. You and I Commander...war is our sculptor. And we are prisoners to its design."

On a side note, Javik gets some great lines. His trollish comments tend to get the most attention on the BSN, but he also says some of the more profound stuff in the series.

That doesn't justify it, imo.

If he would be some stoic warrior who knows not to be a dick but isn't going to offer his shoulder/comfort Liara...that's something I could accept...and it would be more than underatandable.

But he's simply a jerk who stirs Liara's pain and grief. That has nothing to do with pragmatism or being honest. That's just being a needless dick (not to mention it's counterproductive to the mission), which Javik is. And that's why I refuse him and his DLC.

Being a jerk? While Javik can certainly be a troll (his joke scene with Vega was hilarious) Javik isn't the one busting into Liara's quarters demanding things, he simply connected the dots in the Prothean-Asari relationship back in the temple on Thessia.

"The goddess gave us biotics and--"

"Nope. Prothean Chuck Testa."

"--agriculture"

"Nope. Prothean Chuck Testa."

"stopped an alien invasion"

"Nope. Prothean Chuck Testa. Your ancestors are totally just hiding the truth"

"No, I don't believe yo--

*Shepard activates disguised Prothean VI system*

"W-what? Well it must be reacting to the Prothean signature in your mind leftover by the Cipher--"

"Prothean. Standing right here. Just throwing that possibility out there."

Later in the argument, Liara blames Javik for Thessia and the Reaper problem on the irrational and childish belief that Javik is an all-knowing Messiah simply because he's a Prothean and should have all the answers (paragon interrupt) to simply not deciding to KILL Javik in other results--though Javik states he's more than capable of meeting her challenge had it gone that far.

Javik is blunt with his honesty, but he wasn't the problem.

[Zkyire]

JBPBRC wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Doesn't Traynor actually only do two things and has other people's help to acheive them? She's a communication's specialist, monitoring communications is her job, and she monitors communications successfully. 

Of course, it's still annoying as someone who likes Liara and the concept of her becoming the Shadow Broker, to go through the game and have Liara's single massive contribution to the plot happen in a comic I never knew about, and all the other stuff she does happen off screen, only to find out the things that would have made her actually useful as the Broker, were given to Traynor simply to give her a larger role in the story and justify her existence past being the lesbian romance option, even though it makes more sense both logically and narratively to have Liara do something visible after having an entire DLC devoted to her. 

I mean, even if you don't like Liara, if she's going to be in the game so much, wouldn't you rather she did something worthwhile? 

Yeah, rant, whatever. 

This. 

As much as I like Traynor, I agree.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Makai81 wrote...

I love Liara but always thought that she always had at least a passive arrogance about Asari supremacy to the other galactic races and especially humans.  For Javik to give her the rude awakening that most of their technological leap over the rest of the galaxy was due to the Protheans leaving them so much of their own technology was actually kind of refreshing.  Not to mention Traynor pretty much schooling her in how to collect intel and manage information.....without an extensive spy network.

It was a tad hypothetical of Javik though as the Protheans got all their tech from the cycle before hand.

[JBPBRC]

DinoSteve wrote...

Makai81 wrote...

I love Liara but always thought that she always had at least a passive arrogance about Asari supremacy to the other galactic races and especially humans.  For Javik to give her the rude awakening that most of their technological leap over the rest of the galaxy was due to the Protheans leaving them so much of their own technology was actually kind of refreshing.  Not to mention Traynor pretty much schooling her in how to collect intel and manage information.....without an extensive spy network.

It was a tad hypothetical of Javik though as the Protheans got all their tech from the cycle before hand.

You mean hypocritical? Anyway, Javik wasn't saying it was a bad thing, he was simply stating this is how the Asari have an advantage over others, and that the Protheans did the same thing to dominate their cycle.

Any negative connotations come from either Shepard, or though the player's own knowledge of the lore and perception of the Asari as a whole.

Modifié par JBPBRC, 03 février 2013 - 02:36 .

[shit's fucked cunts]

sure I guess

but ill still glass ya for talking smack about my waifu