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[Dean_the_Young]

[quote]The Night Mammoth wrote...

Why Liara doesn't represent the asari at the summit  I'll never know, but yeah, that's another one I'd imagine Liara could very easily have had some input for. 

[/quote]Probably because the closest Liara comes to a position of government authority is that her mother was a traitor?
[/quote]

I'd imagine that she'd have significant power amongst the asari as the Shadow Broker, enough to manipulate them into doing something, Then again, that could be said about her relation to all the species of the galaxy. [/quote]That's an argument for her to represent the criminal underworld, but not really one to represent the Asari.

[quote]
Though how Shepard and Liara would work having someone who depends on keeping their identity a secret to maintain their power represent one of the most powerful governments at a summit involving both the turian Primarch and a Salarian Dalatrass is unknown. [/quote]What would it matter? The Shadow Broker's power comes from the criminal empire, not the anonyminity: that just makes the Broker easier to target.

[quote]
Not that Shepard does much that makes sense either. If her gameplan is to bypass the council, why she deals with Tevos on the matter doesn't make sense either. 
[/quote]It makes more sense when you consider that the Asari Councilor is the closest thing the Asari have to a leading representatives. Unlike the Salarians or Turians, the Asari don't have a centralized government.

[Dean_the_Young]

I don't terribly mind Liara's emotional crisis after her homeworld falls, or her misplaced anger at Javik, or even her unease at fighting Asari husks.

I'm more annoyed by her repeated claims of understanding how everyone else who is already dealing with these things feels, when she very clearly doesn't. More specifically, I'm more annoyed we can't call her out on that discrepancy: sure, she's trying to be sympathetic, but claiming false understanding and perspective is annoying to a good number of people, myself included.

[Falaxe]

o Ventus wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Liara's reaction to her homeworld being destroyed was completely cool and professional. She's ready to go on the very next mission.

Because almost wanting to kill Javik is "cool and professional".

Javik is a troll, and who is a priority target for trolling? Yes, that is correct. A person who tries to be "cool and professional" maybe hard to crack, but when you do... Believe me (and Javik!) it`s worth it.

Only thing that bothers me is that Javik stopped, it would have been awesome to watch him kick Liaras ass if Shepard wouldnt have interrupted. After that Javik could have kept slandering and reminding Liara what happened on Thessia and how p**sy she is.

Maturity is a lie


EDIT:
But to be honest... I just wanted to hug her after Thessia ;_;

Modifié par Falaxe, 03 février 2013 - 10:06 .

[agu123]

David7204 wrote...

I'm curious. If Liara crying because her homeworld was overrun is an 'overreaction,' what exactly do the behavior and comments on the BSN qualify as?

HOHOHO!

10/10

[shodiswe]

Liara and Asari in general gettign put in place +1

[The Night Mammoth]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

I'd imagine that she'd have significant power amongst the asari as the Shadow Broker, enough to manipulate them into doing something, Then again, that could be said about her relation to all the species of the galaxy.

That's an argument for her to represent the criminal underworld, but not really one to represent the Asari.

That's related to what I meant by the second part of the quote. I agree now that she's not in the position to represent the asari or any single public and unified faction. 

Though how Shepard and Liara would work having someone who depends on keeping their identity a secret to maintain their power represent one of the most powerful governments at a summit involving both the turian Primarch and a Salarian Dalatrass is unknown.

What would it matter? The Shadow Broker's power comes from the criminal empire, not the anonyminity: that just makes the Broker easier to target.

I imagined at  the time of typing, a situation where Liara standing there telling the summit that she's the Broker would undermine a lot of her authority, but I can't exactly remember why anymore.  Maybe something to do with her not being taken seriously, or the network being compromised as a result. 

It might overshadow some of the more important issues though, if the Broker suddenly revealed herself. 

Not that Shepard does much that makes sense either. If her gameplan is to bypass the council, why she deals with Tevos on the matter doesn't make sense either. 

It makes more sense when you consider that the Asari Councilor is the closest thing the Asari have to a leading representatives. Unlike the Salarians or Turians, the Asari don't have a centralized government.

Which means that, surely, it's more likely that some individual from among the asari would come to the summit, since the powerful matriarchs aren't bound by orders. 

[Dean_the_Young]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Which means that, surely, it's more likely that some individual from among the asari would come to the summit, since the powerful matriarchs aren't bound by orders. 

The Asari governments are, however, bound by the vote of the Councilor.

If you're looking for a centralized authority figure for the Asari city-states, you've already met her.

[The Night Mammoth]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Which means that, surely, it's more likely that some individual from among the asari would come to the summit, since the powerful matriarchs aren't bound by orders. 

The Asari governments are, however, bound by the vote of the Councilor.

If you're looking for a centralized authority figure for the Asari city-states, you've already met her.

Forget about a centralized figure to represent them all then, how about just someone who's influential enough amongst the asari to do something.

[CynicalShep]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Which means that, surely, it's more likely that some individual from among the asari would come to the summit, since the powerful matriarchs aren't bound by orders. 

The Asari governments are, however, bound by the vote of the Councilor.

If you're looking for a centralized authority figure for the Asari city-states, you've already met her.

Asari have no centralized figure. Tevos is just yanked around by the matriarchs. Even if she was to say "All Asari forces, go die on Earth!" said matriarchs would probably give her the finger

[kalasaurus]

JBPBRC wrote...

GlassElephant wrote...


If Javik went into Liara's room while she was crying on her bed and went "Ha ha, primitive.  Let me taste your tears as your great race falls", then I'd agree.

As mentioned before, she goes into his room to start a fight.  She actually almost threatens to physically harm the guy- who was just minding his own damn business.  The scene is sooo much worse if you don't bring Javik to Thessia.

Wait...it happens regardless of whether or not you bring Javik to Thessia?

Srsly?

Yes, unfortunately.  She instead says, "My homeworld just fell and all he can do is gloat!"  To which I wonder, what the hell is Liara doing in his room to begin with?  I brought Garrus along on my last playthrough of Thessia, and he also notices the similarities between the Asari goddesses and Protheans, and says the Asari obviously hoarded Prothean tech for galactic dominance.

No, she still barges into Javik's room for no rational reason and practically tries to kill him.  What she expects from Trollthy the Trollthean is beyond me.  The fact that Garrus, Tali, Kaidan and Adams are all worried about her only adds to my annoyance-- she has a ship full of friends to comfort her, but she decides to target the bitter antisocial guy who made it clear that he's not around to make friends or be nice.

[Wompoo]

It is obvious that many if not most of you have never gone through a traumatic loss( not talking about family loss). People hit by tidal waves, floods, fire or war... seeing their loved ones or city or homes wiped from existence has a very real emotional impact. Considering the devastation of her home world her reaction was actually understandable. Protheans were to her, the apex of all galactic civilisations, it was a safety net and belief for her and others, totally ripped away... she was blaming others yes looking for answers yes, trying to cope.

[Hazegurl]

GlassElephant wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

GlassElephant wrote...


If Javik went into Liara's room while she was crying on her bed and went "Ha ha, primitive.  Let me taste your tears as your great race falls", then I'd agree.

As mentioned before, she goes into his room to start a fight.  She actually almost threatens to physically harm the guy- who was just minding his own damn business.  The scene is sooo much worse if you don't bring Javik to Thessia.

Wait...it happens regardless of whether or not you bring Javik to Thessia?

Srsly?

Yes, unfortunately.  She instead says, "My homeworld just fell and all he can do is gloat!"  To which I wonder, what the hell is Liara doing in his room to begin with?  I brought Garrus along on my last playthrough of Thessia, and he also notices the similarities between the Asari goddesses and Protheans, and says the Asari obviously hoarded Prothean tech for galactic dominance.

No, she still barges into Javik's room for no rational reason and practically tries to kill him.  What she expects from Trollthy the Trollthean is beyond me.  The fact that Garrus, Tali, Kaidan and Adams are all worried about her only adds to my annoyance-- she has a ship full of friends to comfort her, but she decides to target the bitter antisocial guy who made it clear that he's not around to make friends or be nice.

Liara is just one of those people who (although have a ton of friends) can't understand why someone would not like them and therefore need to make them by bothering them. lol!

[Necrotya]

IMO, the scene was done poorly. I never got a feeling Javik did anything special but explained his view to some1 that just lost his home.....in his "weweretheapexofourcycle" way ;D
OT..For some reason I did like talking to the guy, tho I never liked his "wearebetterthanyouprimitives" attitude. After I did all the "talks" in my first run through I never took him with me on the missions in later runs. So for the sake of gaming and having fun I explored what Javik was all about, but after that I just left him in his room. He can talk about supremacy to some1 else than my Shep

[KiwiQuiche]

Hazegurl wrote...

GlassElephant wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

GlassElephant wrote...


If Javik went into Liara's room while she was crying on her bed and went "Ha ha, primitive.  Let me taste your tears as your great race falls", then I'd agree.

As mentioned before, she goes into his room to start a fight.  She actually almost threatens to physically harm the guy- who was just minding his own damn business.  The scene is sooo much worse if you don't bring Javik to Thessia.

Wait...it happens regardless of whether or not you bring Javik to Thessia?

Srsly?

Yes, unfortunately.  She instead says, "My homeworld just fell and all he can do is gloat!"  To which I wonder, what the hell is Liara doing in his room to begin with?  I brought Garrus along on my last playthrough of Thessia, and he also notices the similarities between the Asari goddesses and Protheans, and says the Asari obviously hoarded Prothean tech for galactic dominance.

No, she still barges into Javik's room for no rational reason and practically tries to kill him.  What she expects from Trollthy the Trollthean is beyond me.  The fact that Garrus, Tali, Kaidan and Adams are all worried about her only adds to my annoyance-- she has a ship full of friends to comfort her, but she decides to target the bitter antisocial guy who made it clear that he's not around to make friends or be nice.

Liara is just one of those people who (although have a ton of friends) can't understand why someone would not like them and therefore need to make them by bothering them. lol!

Agreed. She certainly comes off that way, especially when she continues to pester Javik when he clearly doesn't want to be bothered or pried at my questions about the protheans.

Liara must of been fairly stupid if she though she could have gotten sympathy from Javik- he's not a liar, so he isn't going to try and comfort her; he'll just chuck the cold truth in her face which he does causing her to nearly physically attack him since she can't handle the jandle.

Hell I'll say she delibertly went to start sh!t with Javik simply because he was the only person not trying to coddle or comfort her after Thessia.

[JBPBRC]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

GlassElephant wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

GlassElephant wrote...


If Javik went into Liara's room while she was crying on her bed and went "Ha ha, primitive.  Let me taste your tears as your great race falls", then I'd agree.

As mentioned before, she goes into his room to start a fight.  She actually almost threatens to physically harm the guy- who was just minding his own damn business.  The scene is sooo much worse if you don't bring Javik to Thessia.

Wait...it happens regardless of whether or not you bring Javik to Thessia?

Srsly?

Yes, unfortunately.  She instead says, "My homeworld just fell and all he can do is gloat!"  To which I wonder, what the hell is Liara doing in his room to begin with?  I brought Garrus along on my last playthrough of Thessia, and he also notices the similarities between the Asari goddesses and Protheans, and says the Asari obviously hoarded Prothean tech for galactic dominance.

No, she still barges into Javik's room for no rational reason and practically tries to kill him.  What she expects from Trollthy the Trollthean is beyond me.  The fact that Garrus, Tali, Kaidan and Adams are all worried about her only adds to my annoyance-- she has a ship full of friends to comfort her, but she decides to target the bitter antisocial guy who made it clear that he's not around to make friends or be nice.

Liara is just one of those people who (although have a ton of friends) can't understand why someone would not like them and therefore need to make them by bothering them. lol!

Agreed. She certainly comes off that way, especially when she continues to pester Javik when he clearly doesn't want to be bothered or pried at my questions about the protheans.

Liara must of been fairly stupid if she though she could have gotten sympathy from Javik- he's not a liar, so he isn't going to try and comfort her; he'll just chuck the cold truth in her face which he does causing her to nearly physically attack him since she can't handle the jandle.

Hell I'll say she delibertly went to start sh!t with Javik simply because he was the only person not trying to coddle or comfort her after Thessia.

Wow. Figured that the scene just wouldn't happen if Javik wasn't there. How disappointing.

[Steelcan]

o Ventus wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Liara's reaction to her homeworld being destroyed was completely cool and professional. She's ready to go on the very next mission.

Because almost wanting to kill Javik is "cool and professional".

. Crying into your pillow like a scorned child s not professional behavior.  She should not be on the Normandy if she can't handle it. 

[Steelcan]

Wompoo wrote...

It is obvious that many if not most of you have never gone through a traumatic loss( not talking about family loss). People hit by tidal waves, floods, fire or war... seeing their loved ones or city or homes wiped from existence has a very real emotional impact. Considering the devastation of her home world her reaction was actually understandable. Protheans were to her, the apex of all galactic civilisations, it was a safety net and belief for her and others, totally ripped away... she was blaming others yes looking for answers yes, trying to cope.

. She shouldn't be on the Normandy in that case.  Garrus wasn't catatonic after Palaven.  James and Shepard weren't an emotional wreck after Earth.  Javik freakin lost his entire species. If Liara can't handle the horrors of war she shouldn't be fighting it.

[JBPBRC]

If we're going to be frankly honest here, unprofessional behavior is everywhere on the Normandy. Ranging from insubordination, being completely hammered, ragefests, the works.

Out of all the squadmates in ME3 I'd say Javik and Garrus remain the most professional, followed by EDI.

EDIT: Hell, your crew is too damn lazy to bother saluting you unless you bother them. Unprofessional indeed.

Modifié par JBPBRC, 04 février 2013 - 01:18 .

[Indy_S]

It was private and non-intrusive (as far as her duties go, her interaction with Shepard not so much).

[Steelcan]

JBPBRC wrote...

If we're going to be frankly honest here, unprofessional behavior is everywhere on the Normandy. Ranging from insubordination, being completely hammered, ragefests, the works.

Out of all the squadmates in ME3 I'd say Javik and Garrus remain the most professional, followed by EDI.

EDIT: Hell, your crew is too damn lazy to bother saluting you unless you bother them. Unprofessional indeed.

. EDI thinks she should be allowed to disobey orders on moral grounds....

But I can understand some of the behavior.  I'd get hammered after seeing Sanctuary.

[spirosz]

Steelcan wrote...

Wompoo wrote...

It is obvious that many if not most of you have never gone through a traumatic loss( not talking about family loss). People hit by tidal waves, floods, fire or war... seeing their loved ones or city or homes wiped from existence has a very real emotional impact. Considering the devastation of her home world her reaction was actually understandable. Protheans were to her, the apex of all galactic civilisations, it was a safety net and belief for her and others, totally ripped away... she was blaming others yes looking for answers yes, trying to cope.

. She shouldn't be on the Normandy in that case.  Garrus wasn't catatonic after Palaven.  James and Shepard weren't an emotional wreck after Earth.  Javik freakin lost his entire species. If Liara can't handle the horrors of war she shouldn't be fighting it.

To be fair, you're comparing Liara, who was once never involved (that we know of) involved in any sort of "major" combat or fighting till she met Shepard on Therum, to Javik, a warrior, who's probably conditioned to undergo such traumas (and obviously, not losing you're entire race), but I'm assuming he has seen many extremes.  

Not everyone is going to be able to approach situations in the same matter and no I'm not defending Liara in this situation, since I agree with Javik, I'm just sayin'

[Steelcan]

spirosz wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Wompoo wrote...
It is obvious that many if not most of you have never gone through a traumatic loss( not talking about family loss). People hit by tidal waves, floods, fire or war... seeing their loved ones or city or homes wiped from existence has a very real emotional impact. Considering the devastation of her home world her reaction was actually understandable. Protheans were to her, the apex of all galactic civilisations, it was a safety net and belief for her and others, totally ripped away... she was blaming others yes looking for answers yes, trying to cope.

. She shouldn't be on the Normandy in that case.  Garrus wasn't catatonic after Palaven.  James and Shepard weren't an emotional wreck after Earth.  Javik freakin lost his entire species. If Liara can't handle the horrors of war she shouldn't be fighting it.

To be fair, you're comparing Liara, who was once never involved (that we know of) involved in any sort of "major" combat or fighting till she met Shepard on Therum, to Javik, a warrior, who's probably conditioned to undergo such traumas (and obviously, not losing you're entire race), but I'm assuming he has seen many extremes.  

Not everyone is going to be able to approach situations in the same matter and no I'm not defending Liara in this situation, since I agree with Javik, I'm just sayin'

. Then she shouldn't be on the Normandy

[spirosz]

Steelcan wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Wompoo wrote...
It is obvious that many if not most of you have never gone through a traumatic loss( not talking about family loss). People hit by tidal waves, floods, fire or war... seeing their loved ones or city or homes wiped from existence has a very real emotional impact. Considering the devastation of her home world her reaction was actually understandable. Protheans were to her, the apex of all galactic civilisations, it was a safety net and belief for her and others, totally ripped away... she was blaming others yes looking for answers yes, trying to cope.

. She shouldn't be on the Normandy in that case.  Garrus wasn't catatonic after Palaven.  James and Shepard weren't an emotional wreck after Earth.  Javik freakin lost his entire species. If Liara can't handle the horrors of war she shouldn't be fighting it.

To be fair, you're comparing Liara, who was once never involved (that we know of) involved in any sort of "major" combat or fighting till she met Shepard on Therum, to Javik, a warrior, who's probably conditioned to undergo such traumas (and obviously, not losing you're entire race), but I'm assuming he has seen many extremes.  

Not everyone is going to be able to approach situations in the same matter and no I'm not defending Liara in this situation, since I agree with Javik, I'm just sayin'

. Then she shouldn't be on the Normandy

So you're telling me, Liara - who has proven her skills on battle, and not just physically, mentally as well, isn't worthy of fighting along side Shepard since she can't handle those extremes - Shepard isn't so "stable" himself, but again - he's been taught to show no fear.  

I think that's just not wanting her for the sake of not wanting her.  Even then, she deals with it in the best way she can and as an individual.  

Half of these people shouldn't be on the Normandy because of this mindset, IMO.  

[Steelcan]

spirosz wrote...

So you're telling me, Liara - who has proven her skills on battle, and not just physically, mentally as well, isn't worthy of fighting along side Shepard since she can't handle those extremes - Shepard isn't so "stable" himself, but again - he's been taught to show no fear.  

I think that's just not wanting her for the sake of not wanting her.  Even then, she deals with it in the best way she can and as an individual.  

Half of these people shouldn't be on the Normandy because of this mindset, IMO.  

. Like who?  No one but Liara has any qualms about killing husks of their species.  No one breaks down but Liara.  She doesn't deal with it, she breaks down.

[spirosz]

Steelcan wrote...

spirosz wrote...

So you're telling me, Liara - who has proven her skills on battle, and not just physically, mentally as well, isn't worthy of fighting along side Shepard since she can't handle those extremes - Shepard isn't so "stable" himself, but again - he's been taught to show no fear.  

I think that's just not wanting her for the sake of not wanting her.  Even then, she deals with it in the best way she can and as an individual.  

Half of these people shouldn't be on the Normandy because of this mindset, IMO.  

. Like who?  No one but Liara has any qualms about killing husks of their species.  No one breaks down but Liara.  She doesn't deal with it, she breaks down.

Ashley, a Spectre, goes out and is smashed and lying on the floor, should she be on the Normandy after that outbreak?