212 réponses à ce sujet

[nos_astra]

Has anyone mentioned Arrival, yet?
Shepard is knocked out and remains unconscious for a time. His captors neither kill nor restrain him for no apparent reason. It gets even more silly when you think that if you didn't play Arrival a bunch of marines from the 103rd marine division get killed in Shepard's place. They should have upgraded to plot armor.

[JBPBRC]

The Normandy's stealth device. Up to a certain point, it works. But against anything Reaper related they see right through it, from simple little Oculi, to Collector cruisers, to full blown Reapers.

Combined with the Extended Retcon's evac scene is...ugh.

[DirtyPhoenix]

klarabella wrote...

Has anyone mentioned Arrival, yet?
Shepard is knocked out and remains unconscious for a time. His captors neither kill nor restrain him for no apparent reason. It gets even more silly when you think that if you didn't play Arrival a bunch of marines from the 103rd marine division get killed in Shepard's place. They should have upgraded to plot armor.

inb4 IT.

[PinkToolTheater]

pirate1802 wrote...

PinkToolTheater wrote...

Don't know if it was mentioned but the fact that reapers are so hard to kill is total bull.

They at them with some weak, lazer pew pers all series. Humanity created freaking nukes. I am sure they can nuke a freaking reaper and kill it (at least in orbit where there is no danger of collateral damage).

How are you so sure nukes (which by 2186 would be a 200 year old technology) would destroy Space Cthulhus millions of years ahead of us? Nukes to Reapers would be about as dangerous as sticks to a tank. And the weak pew-pew lasers are many times more strong than your nukes. Listen to the conversation the soldiers have in ME2 Citadel.

If a worm can drag it down with sheer force, then the blast from a nuke can do it for sure.

[XxBrokenBonezxX]

CaptainCommander wrote...

A magic beam turning everyone into synthetic/organic hybrids.

Or pulling a lever and becoming the Reaper God.

Or shooting some random tube and all synthetics being killed.

Or .

[AlexMBrennan]

Fighting Reaper superdreadnoughts with infantry in... all? of ME3

If a worm can drag it down with sheer force, then the blast from a nuke can do it for sure.

Or you could just cut that bit of nonsense as well.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 02 février 2013 - 07:30 .

[Auld Wulf]

BioWare has a low expectation of the intelligence of their customers. Given the reaction to the ending, I don't blame them. They put something familiar in there that people would understand immediately, rather than something they'd have to sit and think for a moment about before they got. No mystery here. Same deal for Tali.

[DirtyPhoenix]

PinkToolTheater wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

PinkToolTheater wrote...

Don't know if it was mentioned but the fact that reapers are so hard to kill is total bull.

They at them with some weak, lazer pew pers all series. Humanity created freaking nukes. I am sure they can nuke a freaking reaper and kill it (at least in orbit where there is no danger of collateral damage).

How are you so sure nukes (which by 2186 would be a 200 year old technology) would destroy Space Cthulhus millions of years ahead of us? Nukes to Reapers would be about as dangerous as sticks to a tank. And the weak pew-pew lasers are many times more strong than your nukes. Listen to the conversation the soldiers have in ME2 Citadel.

If a worm can drag it down with sheer force, then the blast from a nuke can do it for sure.

Sure. Destroyer classes have been shown to be defeatable all over the game. It's the sovereign-class that are a real pain in the arse.

[Wompoo]

NightAntilli wrote...

More implausible than Shepard dying and being brought back to life by a terrorist organization? Yeah.. Don't think I can think of one.

Plus: the peeka boo Terminator boss fight in ME2 and the horendous RGB

[Cobalt2113]

JBPBRC wrote...

The Normandy's stealth device. Up to a certain point, it works. But against anything Reaper related they see right through it, from simple little Oculi, to Collector cruisers, to full blown Reapers.

Not true. the stealth device is what lets you explore reaper-controlled systems for war assets and stuff.

[Lyrandori]

pirate1802 wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

Galaxy filled with so much intelligent life and the majority of that life walking upright on two legs with many human-like physical characteristics. I guess there wouldn't be much of a game without it, still I find that all implausible.

Funnier still is almost all of them are humanoid-looking AND look like animals from Earth. When I saw a Krogan I thought it was just a giant talking Lizard. Similarly Salarians = Tall frogs, Hanar = Jellyfish and Rachni = Intelligent ants.Asari look so siilar to humans that its just an embarrassment. Vorcha are space goblins and Batarians are humans with an overload of eyes and nostrils. Only the Turians are somewhat unique and even they look like a cross between cats and birds.

Yeah, it can be summed up as anthropomorphism, and/or Earthly bio-symmetry and the mirroring of known natural patterns. Even if you were to try your best to imagine something "completely alien" you'd still most likely come up with something along the lines of "two arms" (one on each side, I.E. symmetry) and "two legs" (again referring to symmetry in biology). For example, the famous xenomorphs in the Alien franchise, they look "alien enough", especially with those smaller heads inside the "mouth" which themselves replicate the head shape, which also have its own mouth, but you ultimately still have two arms, two legs and a tail, which is a known "pattern" and you could argue was inspired by anything ranging from any mammal to another "alien" in another work of fiction which itself was inspired by a real world animal.

But unfortunately that "phenomena" applies to so much work of fiction and fantasy out there, be it in literature or in other media (and that's excluding other references in science, religion, other forms of art and philosophy) that I wasn't expecting anything different from Mass Effect when I first played it. I was genuinely pleased when I first saw Nihlus at the start of ME1 as the first real "alien" of the franchise, but of course I expected Turians to have two eyes anyway, a mouth, nostrils, two arms and generally-speaking have pretty much a humanoid shape.

The Asari's design was obviously in the same veins to that of the Twi'lek in Star Wars (I.E. keep all the body shape completely humanoid except for the head, or something on the head that we humans don't have, but that's it), the only other thing "alien" (or more accurately, say non-mammalian) the Asari have is the somewhat "scaly" skin texture they seem to have since ME2, and probably better detailed as such in ME3 (and not just on Liara, but pretty clear on Liara specifically anyway, during the romance scene in the cabin). I mean the only non-humanoid (although term "alien" can be applied to all of them if you want to self-satisfy your suspension of disbelief, mostly) intelligent organism are pretty much the Hanar, but at least they can speak in English and they somehow managed to have a voice to start with, without having actual speech organs (and that's outside of the obvious bio-luminescence capabilities they have, which itself also exists in real life in various marine organisms).

Bottom line? It is extremely difficult to even think of a "properly alien" life form since we as humans only know life as we can observe and imagine it but always based on or inspired by "life as we know it". Be it from direct, on-purpose inspiration or unconsciously inspired by your memory of what you know of as "life". Does that make the aliens of Mass Effect "implausible"? Well, I'm not sure really. The problem is that we don't actually know what "real alien" life looks like, and how varied it can be out there if they do exist (be it intelligent or "just alien animals"). We don't know if for instance bio-symmetry is universal or unique to Earth life, or carbon-based life.

We don't know if other alien "insects" would also evolve two pairs of thousands of linked microscopic honeycomb-shaped eyes, or would evolved four symmetrical wings with two on each sides. In other words, we cannot feasibly conceptualize actual alien life, and we can only "suppose" or "assume" about it, but that's always based on what we know of. Heck, there's an actual field of science called Exobiology (also often referred to as "Xenobiology", but the actual proper term is "Exo" for that specific field which does really exist) and there's such experts working at NASA whom have often participated in documentaries depicting how they can come up with what "they'd think of" as "alien life", just go check them out on YouTube or elsewhere (or Google it), it's quite fascinating actually. But ultimately be it for video games or whatever else, be it done on purpose when you do have a design in mind, or done "as your ideas come along" on the fly we humans have a really hard time when it comes to designing, conceptualizing or imagining alien life.

The problem I believe resides in our perception that "alien" should automatically mean "non-humanoid", when in fact we don't know if it has to be excluded at all, when in reality it could possibly be universally common.

Modifié par Lyrandori, 04 février 2013 - 05:02 .

[k.lalh]

Lyrandori wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

Galaxy filled with so much intelligent life and the majority of that life walking upright on two legs with many human-like physical characteristics. I guess there wouldn't be much of a game without it, still I find that all implausible.

Funnier still is almost all of them are humanoid-looking AND look like animals from Earth. When I saw a Krogan I thought it was just a giant talking Lizard. Similarly Salarians = Tall frogs, Hanar = Jellyfish and Rachni = Intelligent ants.Asari look so siilar to humans that its just an embarrassment. Vorcha are space goblins and Batarians are humans with an overload of eyes and nostrils. Only the Turians are somewhat unique and even they look like a cross between cats and birds.

Yeah, it can be summed up as anthropomorphism, and/or Earthly bio-symmetry and the mirroring of known natural patterns. Even if you were to try your best to imagine something "completely alien" you'd still most likely come up with something along the lines of "two arms" (one on each side, I.E. symmetry) and "two legs" (again referring to symmetry in biology). For example, the famous xenomorphs in the Alien franchise, they look "alien enough", especially with those smaller heads inside the "mouth" which themselves replicate the head shape, which also have its own mouth, but you ultimately still have two arms, two legs and a tail, which is a known "pattern" and you could argue was inspired by anything ranging from any mammal to another "alien" in another work of fiction which itself was inspired by a real world animal.

But unfortunately that "phenomena" applies to so much work of fiction and fantasy out there, be it in literature or in other media (and that's excluding other references in science, religion, other forms of art and philosophy) that I wasn't expecting anything different from Mass Effect when I first played it. I was genuinely pleased when I first saw Nihlus at the start of ME1 as the first real "alien" of the franchise, but of course I expected Turians to have two eyes anyway, a mouth, nostrils, two arms and generally-speaking have pretty much a humanoid shape.

The Asari's design was obviously in the same veins to that of the Twi'lek in Star Wars (I.E. keep all the body shape completely humanoid except for the head, or something on the head that we humans don't have, but that's it), the only other thing "alien" (or more accurately, say non-mammalian) the Asari have is the somewhat "scaly" skin texture they seem to have since ME2, and probably better detailed as such in ME3 (and not just on Liara, but pretty clear on Liara specifically anyway, during the romance scene in the cabin). I mean the only non-humanoid (although term "alien" can be applied to all of them if you want to self-satisfy your suspension of disbelief, mostly) intelligent organism are pretty much the Hanar, but at least they can speak in English and they somehow managed to have a voice to start with, without having actual speech organs (and that's outside of the obvious bio-luminescence capabilities they have, which itself also exists in real life in various marine organisms).

Bottom line? It is extremely difficult to even think of a "properly alien" life form since we as humans only know life as we can observe and imagine it but always based on or inspired by "life as we know it". Be it from direct, on-purpose inspiration or unconsciously inspired by your memory of what you know of as "life". Does that make the aliens of Mass Effect "implausible"? Well, I'm not sure really. The problem is that we don't actually know what "real alien" life looks like, and how varied it can be out there if they do exist (be it intelligent or "just alien animals"). We don't know if for instance bio-symmetry is universal or unique to Earth life, or carbon-based life.

We don't know if other alien "insects" would also evolve two pairs of thousands of linked microscopic honeycomb-shaped eyes, or would evolved four symmetrical wings with two on each sides. In other words, we cannot feasibly conceptualize actual alien life, and we can only "suppose" or "assume" about it, but that's always based on what we know of. Heck, there's an actual field of science called Exobiology (also often referred to as "Xenobiology", but the actual proper term is "Exo" for that specific field which does really exist) and there's such experts working at NASA whom have often participated in documentaries depicting how they can come up with what "they'd think of" as "alien life", just go check them out on YouTube or elsewhere (or Google it), It's quite fascinating actually. But ultimately be it for video games or whatever else, be it done on purpose when you do have a design in mind, or done "as your ideas come along" on the fly we humans have a really hard time when it comes to designing, conceptualizing or imagining alien life.

The problem I believes resides in our perception that "alien" should automatically mean "non-humanoid", when in fact we don't know if it has to be excluded at all, when in reality it could possibly be universally common.

This sums it up accurately and concisely. +10 

Because we have no background data on what other intelligent life looks like, we cannot say for certain that life is or is not convergent. But IMO it technically is possible, as it appears that the environment on say Thessia or Sur'Kesh appears analogous to that of Earth. If life is forced to evolve in similar conditions, no matter the genetic root of the organism, it very well may be convergent. An example, (not a great one, but it's close enough), of this is Bats and insects. Both evolved wings to fly, but from very different structures. (Bat wings are an extension of the arm and hand, whereas insect wings are not. Both do the same thing)

[High Kicks]

Destroy option given at the end of the game. The decision chamber is on the citadel. why on earth would the catalyst even give you the option to destroy if it was to solve the problem at all cost. It can't rage quit.. And how does the crucible, a power source, change variables? Its like putting in expensive batteries in a remote and in addition to it controlling the tv, you can now control your oven and shower.

Modifié par High Kicks, 04 février 2013 - 05:11 .

[Galbrant]

I admit as much as I love Mass Effect 2. the Lazarus Project was bull@#$%. Oh and the Crucible. Build a machine that we have no idea on how it works... brilliant! And we do finally found out Mass Effect went fully out of Science Fiction into Q levels of Space Magicky.

[David7204]

Is there a reason why the Lazarus Project is "bull@#$%"?

[The Night Mammoth]

David7204 wrote...

Is there a reason why the Lazarus Project is "bull@#$%"?

Bringing someone back to life who was probably burnt to a cinder and smashed across a planet's surface is just a tad implausible. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 04 février 2013 - 05:36 .

[BombThatDeadGuy]

I'd say it's between Horizon in the 2nd game On Horizon you clearly see either Ashley or Kaiden get stung by the Collector swarms so then why weren't they abducted. They got stung before Lilith did and yet she's the one that gets melted, how the hell did the Collectors not noticed them or abducted them. This would've been better than having them show up and argue with you.

[David7204]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Is there a reason why the Lazarus Project is "bull@#$%"?

Bringing someone back to life who was probably burnt to a cinder and smashed across a planet's surface is just a tad implausible. 

How many times have I been through this argument now?

Shepard would not have burned up.

[The Night Mammoth]

David7204 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Is there a reason why the Lazarus Project is "bull@#$%"?

Bringing someone back to life who was probably burnt to a cinder and smashed across a planet's surface is just a tad implausible. 

How many times have I been through this argument now?

Shepard would not have burned up.

Why not, exactly? 

[David7204]

Why don't you first explain to me why you think things burn up when they enter atmosphere and give me an example or two of such occurrences?

Modifié par David7204, 04 février 2013 - 05:43 .

[Seifer006]

Galbrant wrote...

I admit as much as I love Mass Effect 2. the Lazarus Project was bull@#$%. Oh and the Crucible. Build a machine that we have no idea on how it works... brilliant! And we do finally found out Mass Effect went fully out of Science Fiction into Q levels of Space Magicky.

honestly

they should have rethought of the whole crucible idea...and use something of a suicide mission 2 where they obtain a virus to upload to Harbinger. This would result in one epic battle hence a second team infiltrating inside of Harbinger (which would result in automatic deaths to those) this would be great way to have Shepard (and others of those choosing) to die in Honor

well to bad that didn't happen. Casper the Ghost was what Bioware wanted...

[k.lalh]

David7204 wrote...

Why don't you first explain to me why you think things burn up when they enter atmosphere and give me an example or two of such occurrences?

I can give you two. Space Shuttle Columbia, and Soyuz 11. May their souls rest in peace.

More here http://en.wikipedia....spheric_reentry

Modifié par k.lalh, 04 février 2013 - 05:53 .

[The Night Mammoth]

David7204 wrote...

Why don't you first explain to me why you think things burn up when they enter atmosphere and give me an example or two of such occurences.

Friction. 

Thousands of meteoroids which enter the Earth's atmosphere every year. 

[David7204]

Here's a little something straight from Wikipedia:

"Meteoroids travel around the Sun in a variety of orbits and at various velocities. The fastest ones move at about 42 kilometers per second (26 miles per second) through space in the vicinity of Earth's orbit. The Earth travels at about 29.6 kilometers per second (18 miles per second). Thus, when meteoroids meet Earth's atmosphere head-on (which only occurs when meteors are in a retrograde orbit such as the Eta Aquarids, which are associated with the retrograde Halley's Comet), the combined speed may reach about 71 kilometers per second (44 miles per second). Meteoroids moving through Earth's orbital space average about 20 km/s."

The Space Shuttle enters atmosphere at about 8,000 meters per second. 8 km/s.

As we can clearly see in the ME 2 intro, Shepard is quite close to the planet and isn't initally moving towards it. In contrast to the space shuttle and meteorids, the only speed s/he would attain is speed gained from the planet's gravity. The planet's gravity is not going to suck Shepard in at anything close to a speed of 20 kilometers per second.

[EnvyTB075]

When the Crucible failed to target only Reapers in Destroy when it had the ability to in control.