212 réponses à ce sujet

[Indy_S]

If that doesn't destroy a brain, that's a hell of a concussion.

[Mr.Spo]

Most implausible moment for me?

The Reapers take control of the Citadel and close the arms in Mass Effect 3, but don't shut down the Mass Relay, which was apparently their go to move for eleventy billion years; this inconsistency successfully negates the entire plot of Mass Effect 1 while we're at it (we have to stop Sovereign from closing the arms and activating the Mass Relay to dark space and shutting down the network, letting the Reapers in! etc etc). In fact, the Citadel should have been the Reapers first target. The Codex states the Reapers can zoom from Relay to Relay without stopping, giving them a huge advantage; they don't have to worry about supply lines like organic races do. They could have swarmed through the Relay network to the Citadel, wiped out the Council and whatever ships where there, and switched off the Relay network, then gone about their business as usual without there being any danger of defeat. The genophage can't be cured, Shepard can't rally the galaxy, everybody has to sit in their cluster and wait for the end.

The Mass Relay stays switched on, allowing the forces of the entire galaxy to distract the Reapers while Shepard heads for their Achilles vent. Ridiculously implausible plot after replaying Mass Effect 1.

[k.lalh]

KingZayd wrote...

k.lalh wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

There's a lot of math in this thread devoted to determining the plausibility of that contrivance. Keep up the good work.

This thread reminded me why I didn't apply into engineering. ._.

But I think I've got my math sorted out.

I just can't do mental math like I used to, so I had to go digging to find notes and formulas, and a calculator.

That impact would be impossible to survive unless Shep's armor has active exterior cooling to prevent the atmosphere around him from igniting. And the shock from that impact would be immense. The impulse Shepard would succumb to is  around -270 000 kgm/s on impact. If he made a 10 m deep crater, his body would succumb to -37 169 Gs.

He's dead.

Just a few things:
The gravitational field would be a lot weaker from space, and you can't simply use 0.85g as an approximation.
Instead you'd have to integrate GM/r^2 dr.

Also the heat would be generated by air resistance which would work against Shepard's velocity. So for impacts you should look at the terminal velocity of a human body in that atmosphere+gravitational field.

google tells me that on Earth the terminal velocity of a human in  a random position is about 120 miles per hour. which translates to about 54m/s. Lethal, yes. But the brain is probably not destroyed.

As for the heat, I wouldn't know how to calculate that.

Well the 0.85g wasn't an approximation, it was the actual gravity of the planet. (albeit at the surface). I know in order to calculate the change in acceleration due to increasing gravitational field strength would require integration. However, my math is horrific, and I can't find my graphing calculator.

And that is what I tried to do earlier, but we got into a petty argument over the values I was using, which caused individuals to doubt my knowledge of physics concepts. I agree. But what I do know, is the heat, coupled with the immense deceleration on impact, would turn him into mush. Unless his suit has a hell of an internal compensator, he's toast.

[k.lalh]

Actually I think I have an idea to calculate the heat bled off by atmospheric re-entry. So we know heat is caused by friction, which causes kinetic energy to be transformed into thermal energy. Shepard's kinetic energy w/o the effects of drag would be Ek = 1/2 mv^2. Assuming that his max speed is 2700 m/s (right before he hits the ground), and his mass is 100kg he would have an Ek of 364500kJ. Assuming (if someone knows how to calculate the drag in a methane atmosphere, do tell) that his terminal velocity is say 50 m/s, his Ek= 125kJ. (as he hits the ground). I used the values for as he hits the ground, as this way I do not have to account for the changing strength of gravitational potential energy. This represents a loss of 364375kJ to heat. Assuming that Shepard's specific heat capacity is quite high at 250 J/K the maximum temperature he would be exposed to is given as 364375kJ/.25kJ/K x 100kg. The temperatures he's exposed to on impact would be something like 14575 Kelvin. I'm pretty sure he would be incinerated.

Of course I made a lot of assumptions in order to come to that conclusion, but I do not think that they are unreasonable.

[Ice Cold J]

 Not so much things that were immersion breakers, but things that just didn't make sense.

How come Shepard and Saren are the only two who can read beacons?
The Normandy can't provide air support for one squadmate while I go save the other on Virmire?
Mordin was a member of the STG, yet he is more easily defeated in combat than Tali or Kasumi (Hold The Line calculations)?
VS goes from being fully loyal to Shepard, to not being on Horizon, to being loyal again on Earth, to not n Mars, to loyal back on Earth, to not during the coup, to loyal again after said coup? 
Legion being more or less the only Geth platform that can talk.
Zaeed surviving a point balnk shot to the head.
How come no one knew who the Shadow Broker was or where to find him, yet suddenly, he's so easy to find?
The Protheans were extinct... except for Javik?
How do Gerrel and Koris basically flip-flop so quickly form ME2 to ME3?
Whole populations cannot defeat Reaper forces made from the defeated parts of those same populations (numbers don't add up to me).
Why can't the Asari, the top race in the galaxy, at least SOMEWHAT hold their own against the Reapers (their army seems pretty inept)?
Shouldn't The Alliance (even in a weakened state) STILL be able to easily defeat a splinter group like Cerebus at the Battle of Cronus station?
The combined might of every race in the galaxy can't defeat the Reaper fleet conventionally, but two Thanix missles can take down a Reaper destroyer?
And I'll stop there to avoid bringing up flame wars about the ending...

[Nero Narmeril]

The Normandy can't provide air support for one squadmate while I go save the other on Virmire?

Kirrahe said it is too risky for using air support.

Legion being more or less the only Geth platform that can talk.

The Prime on Rannoch can talk too.

Why can't the Asari, the top race in the galaxy, at least SOMEWHAT hold their own against the Reapers (their army seems pretty inept)?

Because their military doctrine doesn't fit against Reapers.

The combined might of every race in the galaxy can't defeat the Reaper fleet conventionally, but two Thanix missles can take down a Reaper destroyer?

Weak Destroyer vs Capital ship. Yeah, right.

[Ice Cold J]

Nero Narmeril wrote...

Kirrahe said it is too risky for using air support. 


The Prime on Rannoch can talk too.

Because their military doctrine doesn't fit against Reapers.

Weak Destroyer vs Capital ship. Yeah, right.

Too risky to bombard, I believe. Not to extract.
Besides, if that's too risky, how can they get extracted at all?


I said more or less. I know about the Prime on Rannoch. But why didn't we hear any Geth speak prior to this? And if the Quarian KNEW they could talk, why does everyone act so surprised when Legion does?


How is it weak? It's guarding the beam and it's not a capital ship it's fighting, it's a missle battery.
Or, if you're talking about the Sovereign class Reapers being that much more stronger than the Destroyers, then I want to point out that dreadnaughts carry a heavier payload than two thanix missles.

[Barquiel]

Ice Cold J wrote...

 Not so much things that were immersion breakers, but things that just didn't make sense.

How come Shepard and Saren are the only two who can read beacons?
The Normandy can't provide air support for one squadmate while I go save the other on Virmire?
Mordin was a member of the STG, yet he is more easily defeated in combat than Tali or Kasumi (Hold The Line calculations)?
VS goes from being fully loyal to Shepard, to not being on Horizon, to being loyal again on Earth, to not n Mars, to loyal back on Earth, to not during the coup, to loyal again after said coup? 
Legion being more or less the only Geth platform that can talk.
Zaeed surviving a point balnk shot to the head.
How come no one knew who the Shadow Broker was or where to find him, yet suddenly, he's so easy to find?
The Protheans were extinct... except for Javik?
How do Gerrel and Koris basically flip-flop so quickly form ME2 to ME3?
Whole populations cannot defeat Reaper forces made from the defeated parts of those same populations (numbers don't add up to me).
Why can't the Asari, the top race in the galaxy, at least SOMEWHAT hold their own against the Reapers (their army seems pretty inept)?
Shouldn't The Alliance (even in a weakened state) STILL be able to easily defeat a splinter group like Cerebus at the Battle of Cronus station?
The combined might of every race in the galaxy can't defeat the Reaper fleet conventionally, but two Thanix missles can take down a Reaper destroyer?
And I'll stop there to avoid bringing up flame wars about the ending...

Some of these things are explained.

Saren, Shepard (and Shiala) have the cipher. That's why they're the only ones who can read beacons.

According to the codex...
"The assault on Thessia did not go as smoothly as the Reapers' strikes against other races."
The Asari fought more succesfully against Reapers than any other race (except the Turians). They also defended some of their colonies comparatively successful (Cyone, Lusia, Illium, Trategos).

During the assault on Cronos station, Hackett only mobilized the Fifth Fleet against the Cerberus Fleet. The other fleets were doing....something else.

Modifié par Barquiel, 04 février 2013 - 09:00 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Medievalist wrote...

Most implausible moments in ME

Synthesis.
Catalyst AI and its reasons for doing what it does.
A, B, C ending.

[Ice Cold J]

Barquiel wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

 Not so much things that were immersion breakers, but things that just didn't make sense.

How come Shepard and Saren are the only two who can read beacons?
The Normandy can't provide air support for one squadmate while I go save the other on Virmire?
Mordin was a member of the STG, yet he is more easily defeated in combat than Tali or Kasumi (Hold The Line calculations)?
VS goes from being fully loyal to Shepard, to not being on Horizon, to being loyal again on Earth, to not n Mars, to loyal back on Earth, to not during the coup, to loyal again after said coup? 
Legion being more or less the only Geth platform that can talk.
Zaeed surviving a point balnk shot to the head.
How come no one knew who the Shadow Broker was or where to find him, yet suddenly, he's so easy to find?
The Protheans were extinct... except for Javik?
How do Gerrel and Koris basically flip-flop so quickly form ME2 to ME3?
Whole populations cannot defeat Reaper forces made from the defeated parts of those same populations (numbers don't add up to me).
Why can't the Asari, the top race in the galaxy, at least SOMEWHAT hold their own against the Reapers (their army seems pretty inept)?
Shouldn't The Alliance (even in a weakened state) STILL be able to easily defeat a splinter group like Cerebus at the Battle of Cronus station?
The combined might of every race in the galaxy can't defeat the Reaper fleet conventionally, but two Thanix missles can take down a Reaper destroyer?
And I'll stop there to avoid bringing up flame wars about the ending...

Some of these things are explained.

Saren, Shepard (and Shiala) have the cipher. That's why they're the only ones who can read beacons.

According to the codex...
"The assault on Thessia did not go as smoothly as the Reapers' strikes against other races."
The Asari fought more succesfully against Reapers than any other race (except the Turians). They also defended some of their colonies comparatively successful (Cyone, Lusia, Illium, Trategos).

During the assault on Cronos station, Hackett only mobilized the Fifth Fleet against the Cerberus Fleet. The other fleets were doing....something else.

OK... Cerebus/Cronus station answered.

Still, it's not about who can process the Beacon. It's about who can actually see it. It's said a bunch of times that Shepard is lucky to be alive and he must be VERY strong-willed to have survived it. So is Saren the same? What do they mean by "strong-willed?"

Still, it seems like Shep gets there when it all hits the fan. I'm just going off the mission I played. I mean, compared to the Turians and the Krogan, the Asari get pretty much mopped up.
I get the codex entry, but it seems like the Asari would better defend their homeworld since they're sort of touted as the best race in this cycle...

[Mr.House]

Project Lazarus

[Iakus]

Mr.House wrote...

Project Lazarus

[fr33stylez]

ME1
- The Council concluding that Saren was about to attack the Citadel after hearing Tali's tape? Huh?
- Dismissing the dock worker's testimony of Saren immediately

ME2
- Project Lazarus, the most implausible moment in the entire series. Resurrection...because money. No other advanced race inthe galaxy is apparently capable of resurrection. Wow.
- 'Ah yes, Reapers'. An entire Reaper exploded all over the Citadel. Really.
- The Collectors kidnapping hundred of thousands humans for 2 years without the Alliance caring because 'they're in the terminus systems'

ME3
- Shepard turning himself in to the Alliance/waiting around for 6 months after stopping the Reapers in Arrival, who were minutes away from invading
- The Crucible plans apparently sitting on Mars since forever
- Udina's random and nonsensical defection to Cerberus because...Earth
- The Reapers U-Hauling the Citadel to Earth, only after TIM told them
- Harbinger inexplicitly flying away after wasting all that time defending the beam
- Anderson getting to the beam unscathed and ahead of Shepard after being behind him
- Synthesis

Modifié par fr33stylez, 04 février 2013 - 09:26 .

[DoodlyDangus]

iakus wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Project Lazarus

They could have had Shepard sign up for Cerberus some other way.

[Steelcan]

Evolution of the asari

[nos_astra]

fr33stylez wrote...
- The Collectors kidnapping hundred of thousands humans for 2 years without the Alliance caring because 'they're in the terminus systems'

That's actually one of the few things that is backed up by lore.

What is a little whacky is the insane numbers of colonists who seem to settle in pirate infested territory, little more than 30 years after the first colonies were founded. Seriously? Where do all these people come from? Earth must have seen some kind of mass exodus the moment colonization of garden worlds in space became an option.

Modifié par klarabella, 04 février 2013 - 09:34 .

[dreamgazer]

Yeah, I'm still voting for the asari-cloning, mind-controlling plant.

(and Synthesis).

[AlexMBrennan]

Zaeed surviving a point balnk shot to the head.

Not unprecedented in real life.

It's said a bunch of times that Shepard is lucky to be alive and he must be VERY strong-willed to have survived it. So is Saren the same? What do they mean by "strong-willed?"

That's said by Liara who's not an expert on human physiology, right?
Regardless, maybe Saren picked up the codex first? Or maybe he knew how to use the beacon, making the transfer less traumatic?

Whole populations cannot defeat Reaper forces made from the defeated parts of those same populations (numbers don't add up to me).

Are you talking about husks (of all varieties)? Simples: cybernetic husk implants improve husks to be superior to the source species (cannibals have built-in cannons, brutes are much bigger than krogan, etc).
Plus, the Reapers have total aerial/orbital superiority...

Whole populations cannot defeat Reaper forces made from the defeated parts of those same populations (numbers don't add up to me).

Numbers. All our Thanix missiles managed to take down one Reaper.

[fr33stylez]

klarabella wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...
- The Collectors kidnapping hundred of thousands humans for 2 years without the Alliance caring because 'they're in the terminus systems'

That's actually one of the few things that is backed up by lore.

What is a little whacky is the insane numbers of colonists who seem to settle in pirate infested territory, little more than 30 years after the first colonies were founded. Seriously? Where do all these people come from? Earth must have seen some kind of mass exodus the moment colonization of garden worlds in space became an option.

Oh I'm aware of the lore regarding Terminus Systems. But Freedom's Progress apparent had a population of over 900,000 before the abductions! And obviously, the Alliance started to investigate in some trivial capacity as Kaiden/Ashley were on Horizon installing those guns.

Citadel governed or not, 900,000 persons from your species disappearing from a planet once, let alone numerous times should set of a state of emergency.

Modifié par fr33stylez, 04 février 2013 - 09:44 .

[JamieCOTC]

ZLurps wrote...

ME1.
Voice acting for Hanar and Prothean AI on Ilos felt bit off.

ME2.
Shepard being resurrected after what happened.
So many humans in C-Sec.
Outfits of certain characters.

ME3.
Issues regarding visual presentation on certain levels.
Cerberus Guardian, fun yeah, would be great in MDK or something similar.
Cut scenes on Mars where VS is wounded
Almost everything involving Kai Leng.
How BW chose to write EDI and certain things with Legion.
Similar issues with Eve, BW went bit too far when they wanted to make her likeable.
Cerberus Empire
Citadel moves, because plot says it moves, lot's of issues with that.
Foreshadowing Shepard's fate on Earth, they really went far with that.
Dragging TIM's closure to Citadel.
Shepard's essence being missing component from billion or so years old experiment.

ME3 EC
Evac scene, Harby is just sitting there while Normandy is right under it's nose. Last time I played it I couldn't help it, I started to laugh.

Yep. I'll just add one more for ME2. Sole Survivor Shepard not mentioning his/her squad was killed on Akuze by a Thresher Maw in a Cerberus experiment.

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 04 février 2013 - 09:45 .

[Belisarius25]

fr33stylez wrote...

klarabella wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...
- The Collectors kidnapping hundred of thousands humans for 2 years without the Alliance caring because 'they're in the terminus systems'

That's actually one of the few things that is backed up by lore.

What is a little whacky is the insane numbers of colonists who seem to settle in pirate infested territory, little more than 30 years after the first colonies were founded. Seriously? Where do all these people come from? Earth must have seen some kind of mass exodus the moment colonization of garden worlds in space became an option.

Oh I'm aware of the lore regarding Terminus Systems. But Freedom's Progress apparent had a population of over 900,000 before the abductions! And obviously, the Alliance started to investigate in some trivial capacity as Kaiden/Ashley were on Horizon installing those guns.

Citadel governed or not, 900,000 persons from your species disappearing from a planet once, let alone numerous times should set of a state of emergency.

Yes, but if the Council (or at least the Alliance) was acting reasonably early in ME2, there'd be little reason to be 'forced' to work with Cerberus! 

Modifié par Belisarius25, 04 février 2013 - 09:51 .

[nos_astra]

fr33stylez wrote...
Citadel governed or not, 900,000 persons from your species disappearing from a planet once, let alone numerous times should set of a state of emergency.

This remindes me how whole colonies disappear WITHOUT A TRACE ... other than the giant crater the collector ship tends to leave behind ... and possibly tons of footage from security cameras.

Modifié par klarabella, 04 février 2013 - 09:53 .

[Maxster_]

Also : thanix missiles.

[Sebby]

klarabella wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...
Citadel governed or not, 900,000 persons from your species disappearing from a planet once, let alone numerous times should set of a state of emergency.

This remindes me how whole colonies disappear WITHOUT A TRACE ... other than the giant crater the collector ship tends to leave behind ... and possibly tons of footage from security cameras.

The ME sequels are the gifts that keep on giving when it comes to derp.

[Applepie_Svk]

synthesis

evac scene

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 04 février 2013 - 10:12 .