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[shodiswe]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

There are uncollonized Dextro planets out there, even planets that the council doesn't know aobut and which they havn't claimed.

So now a planet meeting their living requirements is just supposed to magically fall into their laps?

They didn't evolved to grow dependant on the plant life but the plant life on rannoch had grown a dependancy on the Quarrians to spread their seeds.... Like animals are spreading seems on earth.

Actually, they did. They tell you this, Rannoch's codex entry tells you this. Without flowering plants, a butterfly would starve to death.

The Quarrians coudl adpt to another planet with in a cnetury. They can adapt to Ranooch within approximately 60 years, I think it was said....

"It's the difference between sixty years and six hundred. For anyone alive today to see a sunset without a mask, we must take back our home."

But, in the end 60 years or 100 years makes no difference when offloading people for a war tahts happening right now. If they loose then they wont be around 60 years from now.
We also know they can eat turian food, they jsut have to make sure it's sterile. In other words, they could eat stuff from other Destro planets np. They could also introduce their own flora and fauna even if that takes a few years.

The Liveships only carry those used for foodstuffs. The plants they depend on for immune development aren't necessarily edible. And again, the Turians have their own refugee crisis on their hands. What Turian colony is both not under attack, and willing and able to accept 17 million high-maintenance refugees? On the other hand, there's a completely unexploited planet with food they can eat, air they can breath, and symbiotic flora which exists nowhere else in the galaxy, held by a faction which the galaxy (minus Shepard and crew) believes to be a Reaper proxy faction.

The thing is they would have had a world if they had worked on it during those 300 years...

They did. The Council blocked their colonization efforts at every turn, even threatening to bomb them off of one which wasn't technically Council space until the Quarians themselves came forward to proposition for colonization rights.

However, they never stopped wantign their homeworld back so they never put any serious enerygy into finding a planet of their own that wasn't already claimed by another empire...

That "other empire" being a Council race with the firepower to threaten them with a war they couldn't win whenever they found a suitable candidate.

It would have been a lot easier for the quarrians to find a home that it woudl have been for the Geth to leave the Veil without starting a war.

The Geth could, you know, talk, or not shoot down one of the emissaries the Council sent to them. And it's spelled "Quarians."

However if they had settled down then the Reapers would probably be there already, stomping them out.

Nowhere is really safe for them, but offloading their civies grants them the mobility to be of assistance to the wider war effort.

Like Legions said, the Quarrians these days don't even know Rannoch, they have no connection. It's just a resentful memory passed on generation by generation.

And health problems stemming from being denied access to their native environment. Legion was talking out of his ass a bit there.

They had 300 years to find that planet, they didn't even try, they prefered war!

The Quarrians don't die without Rannochs specific plant life.. it's the plant life that needs the help. The Geth are taking care of that while the Quarrians are gone... Keeping the plantlife alive... Maybe the feel more sorry for the other life on Rannoch than the Quarrians them selves.

[DeinonSlayer]

If you're not even going to read what I'm telling you, there's no point to perpetuating this discussion, Shodiswe. The Quarians were looking at places like Gei Hinnom (Varren Attack mission in ME2) because all of the better, more suitable worlds were already claimed. They discovered and tried to settle Ekuna (which was barely habitable to them to begin with), went to the Council to seek the right to claim the world as their own (which made Ekuna part of Council space because the Quarians recognized their authority), and the Council promptly used this newfound authority to drive them off of the planet at gunpoint. "Civilized" areas like Illium actively tried to keep the Migrant Fleet away.

They don't die without the plant life, but the dependency goes both ways (hence "symbiosis"). Here - let me show you the planet's codex entry verbatim:

Rannoch has no insect life. As a result, its pollinating plants evolved to rely on animals for propagation. This symbiosis between flora and fauna is responsible for the quarians' weakened immune systems, which made colonization of other planets extremely difficult after their exile from Rannoch. For many quarians, reclaiming their homeworld from the geth is a matter of both cultural and physiological necessity.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 11 février 2013 - 07:33 .

[shodiswe]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

If you're not even going to read what I'm telling you, there's no point to perpetuating this discussion, Shodiswe. The Quarians were looking at places like Gei Hinnom (Varren Attack mission in ME2) because all of the better, more suitable worlds were already claimed. They discovered and tried to settle Ekuna (which was barely habitable to them to begin with), went to the Council to seek the right to claim the world as their own (which made Ekuna part of Council space because the Quarians recognized their authority), and the Council promptly used this newfound authority to drive them off of the planet at gunpoint. "Civilized" areas like Illium actively tried to keep the Migrant Fleet away.

They don't die without the plant life, but the dependency goes both ways (hence "symbiosis"). Here - let me show you the planet's codex entry verbatim:

Rannoch has no insect life. As a result, its pollinating plants evolved to rely on animals for propagation. This symbiosis between flora and fauna is responsible for the quarians' weakened immune systems, which made colonization of other planets extremely difficult after their exile from Rannoch. For many quarians, reclaiming their homeworld from the geth is a matter of both cultural and physiological necessity.

That exploration that lead them to Gei Hinnom (Varren Attack mission in ME2) was part of half hearted exploration attempt started after the events of ascention. it took them almost 300 years to actualy consider it, and it wasn't given any real resources. If they had put some effort into it 300 years ago they would have been in a better position.
Their weakened immune system makes them vulnerable, but they can addapt. It might take them a century to adapt to a more agressive environment than they are used to. But it would still take them 60 years to addapt to Rannoch.

They consider the difference of 40 year a necessity since the first generation/s won't be able to enjoy the freedom otherwise... And they fear that those precious ships that maintains the population will give in soon.
They don't need to be polinated by the plantlife of Rannoch. Also if you read the book it tells you that the real problem is that a lot of the old ships, like liveships are in such bad shape that they wont last very much longer... meening they need a collony or fleet assets they can't readily aquire with ease. So yes, they are growing desperate but it's partialy their own fault.
They spent their time plotting instead of collonizing.
"Cultural" necessity? There are no Quarrians alive to remember the homeworld! they died off at least 2 centuries ago! Cultural necessity would be a warmongering necessity to wage war to claim realestate, or reclaim... Rannoch has become their Israel. the promised land. (It says for many quarians it's a matter of cultural and physilogical ncessity. That's an opinion, not a fact, however as time goes on and their food supply start failing they will get more desperate and feel forced to throw themselves at the Geth because they are starving and they can't affort to buy all their food from other races or replace the Liveships.)

So, yes it's a tragedy, they put themselves in it. I feel sorry for them but they did it to themselves.

What were they thinkign anyway? There's only a few of us left! Let's not collonize and get a home for these people... No that's stupid, lets try and start an arms race instead and atempt to bolster a force that can beat a for that we coudln't beat when we numbered billions of people!
Lets throw outselves at trying to beat that "enemy" with 17 million instead and old overpopulated ships and salvaged discarded ships from other races!

I think the problem was they were run by a military fachist state that cared little for what they people thought, they did listen to the conclave when it didn't affect their longterm goals, but when it came to building a future, the Military took the front seat.

So if you check those sources you will find that the reason for their desperation was their three hundred years of inability to face the truth. The thing gettign them so desperate is their inability to sustain their population in the longterm due to a lack of a dextro planetary body to take the pressure of the liveships that are long past their decommisioning time and are starting to fall appart.

And seriously, Varren are nothing compared to billions of armed Geth, if that was their main concern. After all, Human collonists with no armor and only basic weaponry can hunt Varren...

Modifié par shodiswe, 11 février 2013 - 09:49 .

[DeinonSlayer]

[quote]shodiswe wrote...

That exploration that lead them to Gei Hinnom (Varren Attack mission in ME2) was part of half hearted exploration attempt started after the events of ascention. it took them almost 300 years to actualy consider it, and it wasn't given any real resources. If they had put some effort into it 300 years ago they would have been in a better position.[/quote]I hate to break it to you, but Ekuna's description says that happened about eighty years before the events of ME2. They've been looking, but the worlds they found were either inhospitable or their efforts were blocked by other parties. The Council is absurdly slow to react to, say, Geth attacks in the Attican Traverse, but they break out the dreadnoughts to stop the Quarians from settling on Ekuna.

[quote]Their weakened immune system makes them vulnerable, but they can addapt. It might take them a century to adapt to a more agressive environment than they are used to. But it would still take them 60 years to addapt to Rannoch.[/quote]Not a hundred years. Six hundred, per the quote I provided earlier, with extensive, wholly experimental (and currently illegal) genetic engineering to remove their dependency on Rannoch's plant life. Try writing a human with no dependency on Vitamin D. Try re-coding the entire species for it. You act like settling on a different world would be a minor inconvenience that they're too stubborn to commit to. It is, in fact, VASTLY more difficult.

[quote]They consider the difference of 40 year a necessity since the first generation/s won't be able to enjoy the freedom otherwise... And they fear that those precious ships that maintains the population will give in soon.[/quote]Again, six hundred years - and per Ascension, the fleet will be dead in eighty.

[quote]They don't need to be polinated by the plantlife of Rannoch. Also if you read the book it tells you that the real problem is that a lot of the old ships, like liveships are in such bad shape that they wont last very much longer... meening they need a collony or fleet assets they can't readily aquire with ease. So yes, they are growing desperate but it's partialy their own fault.[/quote]They're paying the price for crap that happened generations before any of them were born. You can't handwave their dependency on their native plant life any more than you could completely cut calcium from your diet.

[quote]They spent their time plotting instead of collonizing.[/quote]They spent their time getting kicked around by a galaxy that didn't care.

[quote]"Cultural" necessity? There are no Quarrians alive to remember the homeworld! they died off at least 2 centuries ago! Cultural necessity would be a warmongering necessity to wage war to claim realestate, or reclaim... Rannoch has become their Israel. the promised land.[/quote]"Physiological" was the key word in the bolded section. The part you've consistently ignored. As for culture, if someone occupied Mecca, would you expect the followers of Islam to take it lying down? Should the Native Americans shut up and suck it up? Arguments can be made, but you can't just dismiss it.

[quote]So, yes it's a tragedy, they put themselves in it. I feel sorry for them but they did it to themselves.[/quote]Again, you're blaming them for things some of them did generations ago.

[quote]What were they thinkign anyway? There's only a few of us left! Let's not collonize and get a home for these people... No that's stupid, lets try and start an arms race instead and atempt to bolster a force that can beat a for that we coudln't beat when we numbered billions of people![/quote]You'll notice they never made an attempt on Rannoch until the Reaper invasion drove them to desperation.

[quote]Lets throw outselves at trying to beat that "enemy" with 17 million instead and old overpopulated ships and salvaged discarded ships from other races![/quote]Yes, "enemy." If you have a viable alternative they could have pursued besides colonizing a nonexistent undiscovered Dextro planet or offloading on a nonexistent Turian colony that is willing and able to take them, please share.

Before you bring it up, Legion already severed communication, and the Reapers are here now.

So, Admiral, what's your call?

[quote]I think the problem was they were run by a military fachist state that cared little for what they people thought, they did listen to the conclave when it didn't affect their longterm goals, but when it came to building a future, the Military took the front seat.[/quote]If they overrode the Conclave, they'd have to resign. They didn't break their own laws. Ultimately, the Admiralty is a comic-evil conglomerate only if you choose to see them as such - meaning, if you give no consideration to their motives and handwave the concerns that drove them here in the first place. They were forced to take this action because they had no other choice.

[quote]So if you check those sources you will find that the reason for their desperation was their three hundred years of inability to face the truth.[/quote]Please re-read the codex entry I quoted above. They were well aware of their own situation, as much as you try to dismiss it.

[quote]The thing gettign them so desperate is their inability to sustain their population in the longterm due to a lack of a dextro planetary body to take the pressure of the liveships that are long past their decommisioning time and are starting to fall appart.[/quote]And if they A: cannot find a suitable planet, or B: aren't permitted to settle said planet, that problem isn't going away any time soon. Even if A and B are met, we're back to trying to (illegally) genetically re-engineer the entire species to eliminate their dependency on an ecosystem they no longer have access to. Technical issues aside, who's going to bankroll that? Seems to me the galaxy wouldn't give a damn if they all died out (and in ME3, disgustingly, they don't).

[quote]And seriously, Varren are nothing compared to billions of armed Geth, if that was their main concern. After all, Human collonists with no armor and only basic weaponry can hunt Varren...[/quote]Six hundred years.

Thank you for your time.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 11 février 2013 - 10:45 .

[silverexile17s]

Indy_S wrote...

No, because his morality is strict and not accommodating of the morality of others. Genocide of the Geth is an abhorrent idea in his view. Some do not even believe the Geth are alive, from a philosophical perspective. Others hold that genocide of the Geth is preferable to the extinction of the Quarians. There are a few that do not trust the peace between them and are forced by their own views to pick a side. Wulf will accept none of them.

Damn. Sorry about that. Didn't know he was that bigoited on those ideas.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 16 février 2013 - 03:32 .