CynicalShep wrote...
Dunabar wrote...
Yeah politics are like the Quarian-Geth conflict, messy business with one side yelling at the other.
Or discussed in a civilized matter. The topic matters not, the participants make the difference.
1. I agree that the Council should've given them the world. Sure, Quarians broke the law by settling a lot of their own there before asking but it would have saved some trouble. I don't agree with the "priority list", however. Quarians, generally, had two big dreams. One was getting a home and anoher was destroying the Geth. One comes true - there's only one left to fulfill.
And there is nothing wrong with feeling Rannoch is their "spiritual home". I'm just saying both their methods and their timing were bad.
2. Well, I don't think Hackett meant that the flotilla passed by with boomboxes. Hackett is a pragmatic leader, he wouldn't mention it if it was something trivial. And they did both sign it. That treaty was signed after the first Geth war. I'm not surprised they chose to ignore it either but that doesn't help their already shaken trustworthiness.
3. The same applies to the true Geth. they have been shot on sight by everybody except one man. Organics didn't trust them, Quarians wanted them gone. Legion's cooperation was more than anybody deserved at that point and it still happened. The quality of the ships doesn't quite matter in the circumstances. Reapers made no difference between Turian dreadnoughts and regular shuttles - they had an easy time destroying either of the two. Quarians could have had a bunch of Destiny Ascension's and they would have been still destroyed. Mobility is what ultimately made the difference, not the age or the specs of the ship.
4. What I meant is staying airbourne. We keep arguing about this but there are Reapers everywhere in the galaxy. On the ground liveships are a sitting duck. In the air - they have mobility and an escort who is ready to die to buy them time. As soon as a Reaper touches down on Rannoch their non-combatants are toast. I would have understood their reasoning if they did it before the war. During the war it's just causing extra trouble.
5. Most Asari don't live in a suit and know how to hold up a biotic barrier. Their ground forces were actually quite successful (or at least that's what the codex says). I still believe every single Quarians would have been dead or processed in a matter of hours (depends on how many Reapers were sent to Rannoch).
6. But that doesn't change the fact. The way they waged war was both careless and ultimately wrong. If they were to first take care of the Geth that took up arms their people wouldn't have had to defend non-hostile Geth. When the biggest threat is down you can decide what to do with the rest of the Geth. Instead they went in blindly with guns blazing and lost. It's "divide and conquer", except the Quarian Admiralty must be one of the first military leaderships that did that to themselves.
7. I haven't argued about arming the ships. I questioned making the liveships a top firing priority. It's one thing to arm them for self-defense purposes and a whole other thing to strap the biggest guns you have on them so that Geth will go out of their way to destroy them. Our playthroughs might have been different but at the very least Tali spoke with Legion(if you have both). About the Dyson sphere - the game says Geth sided because of getting stupider after the attack in combination with being backed in a corner. Legion isn't a leader for the Geth, he is just a platform smart enough to interact with people. He was captured by his own and crucified "Overlord" style. If Quarians never attacked Geth would have never been in that position.
8 Raan followed through because the alternative was Gerrel's fleet getting destroyed in an instant. She was kind and somewhat smart but ultimately spineless. Gerrel took advantage of that. Regardless of what you told them he acts rashly and unbecoming of a military leader. What if the dreadnought is down for good? Why assume that Shepard pressed the "snooze" button? Why not ask a simple question: "I see the dreadnought is down. What happened, Shepard? Of, and THANK YOU for saving our asses again". Even if you told him to attack the dreadnought he could have at least make sure he's making the right call. No, "Kill Shepard, Tali and the SB!!!" to save a couple civilians! Pity he wasn't on the ground in Koris' place.
9. It still says that it's a special platform with 1183 programs. Just like Legion. No other platform would have cut it as a signal booster.
10. I didn't say that all Quarians knew about Liara. In fact, I'm sure most didn't. I said that the admiralty board could have known, since Tali does. Civilians don't matter anyways, they have absolutely no power in the Quarian Flotilla.
I didn't say anybody had to abide by Shepard's wishes but that doesn't make him/her any less important. He is empowered by the SA to talk on their behalf. At that point he is arguably the most important human in the galaxy. If it wasn't for the Reaper war that would have been quite the diplomatic incident, to put it mildly. And Gerrel knew that all too well. That's all I was trying to say
1. But when the galaxy is on the verge of ending, there's a chance that they never WILL get their homeworld back if they don't act now.
2. That was before the Heretics raged bloody hell across the Attican Traverse. I doubt the Council was goint to willingly support an anti-provocitation agreement on the geth, when they seemingly already attacked unprovoked. The Heretics already broke any agreement the quarians made, so Koris' statement about the Council agreement is already redundant, given that the Council never recinded the "State of War" decree they had on the geth, and the "Reaper allies" idea that the rest of the gelaxy sees them from, thanks to the Heretics. So no, that statement Koris made about the Council agreement, and not provoking the geth, has been a redundant topic for going on three years.
3. They in turn did nothing to alter that opinion of them. They just resigned themselves. They GAVE UP on organics, and let that hatred fester. Look what their isolation brought them. Had they at least kept trying to be more open, they could have changed public opinion of them over time.
Those ships need to be constantly supported by each-other, compaired to a self sufficant warship. They are also slower then normal, as it normally took days to move the entie quarian fleet through a relay safely.
Tali herself says that most of the ships are patch-jobs that are always on the verge of falling apart. That REALLY doesn't sound like how most military ships would work, especally when many of the quarians ships are packed with civilians.
And specs DO matter, as the quarian ships are near outdated. Look at how the cutting-edge geth dreadnought cut through the quarian afttackers.
And they don't have the firepower to take on Reapers without backup. Especally while they have to split between attacking the enemy and defending the liveships at the same time, EVERY time they fight.
4. UGH.
THE LIVESHIPS THEMSELVES AREN'T STAYING. JUST THE PEOPLE. WHERE THE HELL DID YOU GET THAT?
Only the civilians are staying, as well as all the food production equipment, and at least one liveship left behind to canabalize into a makeshift town/city for them. The now hollowed-out liveships would then be fully converted into full-time combat ships.
And they CAN'T EVER split up. The whole REASON the Migrant Fleet IS the Migrant Fleet is becauset they CAN'T be divided. The military ships need constant re-supply from the liveships, and likewise, the military ships must always be close to the liveships, because they hold the core of their race.
No one else is going to accept them, and empty space is where they will either run out of resources, since the fleet needs to constantly mine, repurpose, and scavage to survive. Also, empty space si where no one will be able to aid them if the Reapers DO find them.
The risk of staying mobile, and taking the last of their species into battle where, unlike the other races, the loss of the majority of their ships WILL be the end of their race, is FAR too high, compaired to giving them a stable power base.
5. Not true for the volus, whose world was attacked, yet the population was
still fighting quite well.
Not true for Dekunna, where the elcor are still wageing a greulla war.
Not true for Earth, despite the damage.
Not true for the hanar, whose world seems to be somehow too much trouble to take with it's auto-defenses active.
If the
volus can last months on end, the quarians should be just fine. Especally since they won't head for the Veil that quickly,
6. The geth are networked. When one group made the decision, they all did. All geth were moving to the same path, because they ALL shared networked information. And look at rebellions in our own hsitory. Simply killing the ringleaders didn't always garuntee the end of rebellion. With the conciousness-sharing geth, even MORE so.
And after all, the quarians initally had hopes of recovering the geth. The geth were the ones that killed 99% of the quarians. The quarians that resisted that - small fry compaied to how many the geth killed. They DIDN'T do it to themselves. The people's fears did. It wasn't anything the leadership did.
7. The geth would have gone out of their way to destroy them anyway, because now they think it was a mistake to let them go, as their decendants came back to kill them, so now, they won't show any mercy.
They would have destroyed the liveships regardless of being armed or not, and regardless of Reaper upgrade or not. And because that Reaper couldn't have gotten past the Migrant Fleet without anyone knowing, it seems likely that the Reaper was there well before the quarian attack. They were still on the fence. Legion never specified
when the Reapers made the offer. Just that they took it after the quarian attack. If anything, it seems to indicate that the Reapers made the offer to the geth before the attack ever took place.
After all, seeing how the Reapers handled the other races, the geth were probably wondering of they
could win.
8. He acted when no one else WOULD. Look at the Council. The did squat while at least Hackett and Anderson were prepping. Raan is a diplomat and politicion. Gerrel is a proactive military man. You either act first, or take the hit in War, and the quarians couldn't afford to take hits.
Gerrel knew that if they left the dreadnought, it would be repaired and used against them, and potentally all the OTHER races, if the geth got past them and aided the Reapers. The quarians had the geth's attention, but if that changed, the geth would potentoally send forces after the other races and reinforce the Reapers.
At this point, either the quarians run, and the geth spill out into the galaxy at large, or the make their stand here and now. That dreadnought couls cause problems for the quarians, and if the geth remain under Reaper control, could be a threat to other races. Gerrel made the safest choice, and I believe it was the right call.
9. But it's also much colder then Legion. An indication of the way the geth turn out without interaction with Shepard - cold and uncaring of anyone else's problems but their own. Legion is the one that starts to change the geths view of organics.
10. If anything, Gerrel had the highest respect for Shepard.
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