82 réponses à ce sujet

[No Snakes Alive]

Hey Chris, do any of you fighting-game fan devs play MK? Because I'd love to kick your asses and steal your souls.

[HiddenInWar]

Medi-gel cancelling? Feel free to slowpoke me but what is it and how exactly would that even work?

[Kristen Schanche]

Cyonan wrote...

Chris Schanche wrote...

When we run damage numbers and DPS tests on weapons we factor in both normal firing time and reload cancel firing time. Some of our gameplay devs are big fighting game fans, and we overall feel that having some animation cancels available open up play and provide interesting skill growing opportunities, weapons and powers both play with this. Though we certainly want to be sure all our weapons still feel accessable and solid to people who don't do it.

And lets keep this thread civil, it looked like it was in danger of getting heated for a bit there. Everyone has a different platform and playstyle preference, lets respect those.

One thing, if you know, that I'm curious about is medi-gel being used to reload cancel. Since I'm told that it only works on PC, is it intended to work or not work?

Medi-gel being used for reload cancel was not intended behavior, however we do not consider it to be concerning enough to change at this point.

[clopin]

HiddenInWar wrote...

Medi-gel cancelling? Feel free to slowpoke me but what is it and how exactly would that even work?

Not sure if it works on consoles (I generally play Batarians/Krogans and use the A button to cancel, also the 360 d-pad is garbage), but on PC you can hit the medigel key to cancel the reload animation.

[Asebstos]

HiddenInWar wrote...

Medi-gel cancelling? Feel free to slowpoke me but what is it and how exactly would that even work?

On PC players can tap the medigel key while not downed to reload cancel. On console tapping the medigel button while not downed does absolutely nothing.

[N7Dropout1]

I could care less, but it's silly to think you can keep firing a weapon by half-loading it. The Claymore for example is practically unplayable unless you reload-cancel. It's kind of dumb to have a gun that functions as such. The key to using it properly is to reload it improperly. lol

[stinekandts]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

What exactly is wrong with doing it? I was going to ask this sooner but had forgotten, but oh well. 

I am open to any reasons you may put forward on why it's bad for MP.

There is nothing that corresponds to that for power users.   Why should gun spammers get all the advantages?  Because they are less skilled?  :innocent:

Gee, I sure wish there was a gun I could shoot once at a Banshee and then walk away only to have her die 15-20 seconds later (Dark Channel).:innocent:

[jaqome]

Beerfish wrote...

Nopthing wrong with people taking advantage of how it works. The problem is this. Part of the make up of a gun is it's refire or relaod rate. If you have a gun with monster damage it should have the drawback of taking longer to reload than other guns. Reload cancelling negates this. Thus with a gun like the Claymore, you get the huge damage but not the long reload.


I equate this to if you could negate the weight of a gun by doing something in game, Hey this weapon deals massive damage but I can also negate its huge weight by pushing a button that has nothing do with the gun,

You mean like Tactical Cloak?

[Maeson]

I use it because... it lets me be "competitive". The more I'm shooting, the less of a "drag" I feel that I am to the team. I would like it if it isn't in the game, honestly. Why? Because it basically narrows down the possible weapon combinations to a few.

This is weapon balance 101. Powerful weapons' damage is always curbed by either small magazine size or long reload times or both. This is to curb the damage of a weapon so it doesn't become a near instant "I WIN!" button.
While as low damage weapons are balanced to either have big magazines or very short reloads or both, so you can keep chipping away at the target longer and faster.

Reload canceling pretty-much takes away one of the "shackles" of these powerful weapons. While I agree that this is a cooperative game, this has a detrimental effect on all the possible weapons builds when out of the dozens of weapons only a handful are in general use because they are "the best" of the lot.
The imposed "rarity" is also a factor. But I honestly would of preferred if the weapon pools were smaller in general, but with each weapon having a place in a playstyle and being equally viable in the right hands. Currently we simply have weapons that are basically meant to be the "Rusty sword" of an MMO, the weapon you toss away once you get something else... anything else.

[Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd]

In Battlefield 3 each weapon has a "Reload Gate" that must be passed during the animation. If said gate is passed before canceling the actual animation, then your gun is reloaded normally.

I would assume they use this with the ME3 guns, therefore, they would balance the gates if they thought the canceling was cheating or unfair.

[jlee375]

You can animation cancel without medi-gel, even on consoles. Before I ever came to the BSN, I figured out how to reload cancel just by using my powers or sprinting right before the final animation and to this day, I still reload cancel using one of the aforementioned methods (though I am a member of the master race).

It is a co-op game in any case, so why should it matter whether some people utilize it or not?

Modifié par jlee375, 03 février 2013 - 12:21 .

[Kinom001]

I suspect that those who are opposed to it's use are gaming purists, which isn't the same as elitism. Personally, I use the crap out of reload canceling.

[nanotm]

N7Dropout1 wrote...

I could care less, but it's silly to think you can keep firing a weapon by half-loading it. The Claymore for example is practically unplayable unless you reload-cancel. It's kind of dumb to have a gun that functions as such. The key to using it properly is to reload it improperly. lol

there are guns like that in real life as well,

if you perform the correct reload drills its takes about 30 secodns between shots howevr if you cowboy it (this takes a lot of practice not to kill yourself in the process) you cna litteraly shave 25 secodns off that.

its not an abnormal idea to see implimented in a game in that respect.

as for the whole mechanic being 15 years old, its been around for longer than that, back in the days of quake /doom (the original versions) it was possible to reload cancel certain weapons by performing a dodge move although i suspect the majority of players probably arnt old enough to remeber that far back


oh and you could even do it on the orignal nintendo console in the first mass produced pvp shooter

[Someone With Mass]

If I can skip a pretty tedious animation because I see a bunch of guys that are about to kill me, I sure as hell will do it.

I can also skip that animation by using any power, dodging or start running for not even half a second. No need to mix in medi-gel and accidentally use it.

[khannoir]

I'm in the minority but I don't see a difference between Missile Glitching and Reload cancelling. Doesn't matter how much damage it allows you to do, if you can fire faster than intended its cheating, plain and simple in my eyes.

[SOMETHING_FOR_NOTHING]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Chris Schanche wrote...

When we run damage numbers and DPS tests on weapons we factor in both normal firing time and reload cancel firing time. Some of our gameplay devs are big fighting game fans, and we overall feel that having some animation cancels available open up play and provide interesting skill growing opportunities, weapons and powers both play with this. Though we certainly want to be sure all our weapons still feel accessable and solid to people who don't do it.

And lets keep this thread civil, it looked like it was in danger of getting heated for a bit there. Everyone has a different platform and playstyle preference, lets respect those.

One thing, if you know, that I'm curious about is medi-gel being used to reload cancel. Since I'm told that it only works on PC, is it intended to work or not work?

Medi-gel being used for reload cancel was not intended behavior, however we do not consider it to be concerning enough to change at this point.

GG

/ROLL CREDITS.exe

[Kushiel42]

Kinom001 wrote...

I suspect that those who are opposed to it's use are gaming purists...

What do you mean by "gaming purist"?

[Tokenusername]

Maeson wrote...

I use it because... it lets me be "competitive". The more I'm shooting, the less of a "drag" I feel that I am to the team. I would like it if it isn't in the game, honestly. Why? Because it basically narrows down the possible weapon combinations to a few.

This is weapon balance 101. Powerful weapons' damage is always curbed by either small magazine size or long reload times or both. This is to curb the damage of a weapon so it doesn't become a near instant "I WIN!" button.
While as low damage weapons are balanced to either have big magazines or very short reloads or both, so you can keep chipping away at the target longer and faster.

Reload canceling pretty-much takes away one of the "shackles" of these powerful weapons. While I agree that this is a cooperative game, this has a detrimental effect on all the possible weapons builds when out of the dozens of weapons only a handful are in general use because they are "the best" of the lot.
The imposed "rarity" is also a factor. But I honestly would of preferred if the weapon pools were smaller in general, but with each weapon having a place in a playstyle and being equally viable in the right hands. Currently we simply have weapons that are basically meant to be the "Rusty sword" of an MMO, the weapon you toss away once you get something else... anything else.

Well said. Reload times are an important factor in managing DPS for super hard hitting weapons. When you can bypass the reloading mechanic to use every shot you have for the Javelin in 15 seconds, it ruins the balence for the weapon. It makes no sense to even include longer reload times when it is so patheticly easy to bypass them. At least a game like GoW has a sort of skill check with a penalty for failure.

[clopin]

khannoir wrote...

I'm in the minority but I don't see a difference between Missile Glitching and Reload cancelling. Doesn't matter how much damage it allows you to do, if you can fire faster than intended its cheating, plain and simple in my eyes.

You do realise that the devs have confirmed in this very thread that reload cancelling is purely intentional?

[GallowsPole]

clopin wrote...

khannoir wrote...

I'm in the minority but I don't see a difference between Missile Glitching and Reload cancelling. Doesn't matter how much damage it allows you to do, if you can fire faster than intended its cheating, plain and simple in my eyes.

You do realise that the devs have confirmed in this very thread that reload cancelling is purely intentional?

I hate when people say this. I think by now, we all know it was added intentionally. That doesnt mean people cant think it unnecessary or cheap.

[Battlepope190]

It's cheating, plain and simple.

Justify it any way you want, you're still cheating.

[clopin]

Battlepope190 wrote...

It's cheating, plain and simple.

Justify it any way you want, you're still cheating.

It's not cheating when it was intentionally added by the creators of the game. That's like calling three pointers in basketball cheating, or when you get a king in checkers.

GallowsPole wrote...

I hate when people say this. I think by now, we all know it was added intentionally. That doesnt mean people cant think it unnecessary or cheap.

Because as someone that loves the Scimitar, I will take any bloody advantage I can get.

Modifié par clopin, 03 février 2013 - 01:05 .

[GallowsPole]

Tokenusername wrote...

Well said. Reload times are an important factor in managing DPS for super hard hitting weapons. When you can bypass the reloading mechanic to use every shot you have for the Javelin in 15 seconds, it ruins the balence for the weapon. It makes no sense to even include longer reload times when it is so patheticly easy to bypass them. At least a game like GoW has a sort of skill check with a penalty for failure.

This is what I wouldnt mind if it remains in the game. I think it should be a little more difficult than a simple button press. Even now, we get confirmation that a remapped E key is unintended behavior. Not ot mention that most console users arent even getting the intended benefit of the mechanic.

[Kinom001]

Kushiel42 wrote...

Kinom001 wrote...

I suspect that those who are opposed to it's use are gaming purists...

What do you mean by "gaming purist"?

Those who feel that the game should be played as is, no use for shortcuts or using game mechanics to gain an advantage.

[Tallgeese_VII]

Reload cancel does not affect game too much.. because it does not affect survivability of most players...
mostly
if you can do it, it`s an advantage. if you cannot/don`t do it, it can be convinient too.