82 réponses à ce sujet

[Kittstalkur]

Chris Schanche wrote...

When we run damage numbers and DPS tests on weapons we factor in both normal firing time and reload cancel firing time. Some of our gameplay devs are big fighting game fans, and we overall feel that having some animation cancels available open up play and provide interesting skill growing opportunities, weapons and powers both play with this. Though we certainly want to be sure all our weapons still feel accessable and solid to people who don't do it.

You could just use something similar to the active reload system used in Alien Swarm or Gears of War. Make it an actual thing so Gallow can stop complaining every time it's mentioned.

[Grunt_Platform]

Tokenusername wrote...

Well said. Reload times are an important factor in managing DPS for super hard hitting weapons. When you can bypass the reloading mechanic to use every shot you have for the Javelin in 15 seconds, it ruins the balence for the weapon. It makes no sense to even include longer reload times when it is so patheticly easy to bypass them. At least a game like GoW has a sort of skill check with a penalty for failure.

It is very very easy to misstime a reload cancel when you're under fire. The penalty for failure is that it takes longer to reload a weapon if you screw up the cancel than if you had just let the animation play (this is especially true if you're under fire or canceling with a power). Reloads are also limited by the weapon's rate of fire, so weapons like the Wraith can force you to wait a while Skilled players won't make this mistake. More average players will do it all the time. And even reload canceled, you can't fire the Javelin remotely that quickly.

The idea that reload canceling is completely risk free and allows people to unload all ammo from a heavy weapon in 15 seconds is kind of a strawman. It's just not true (minimum reload time for a Javelin is 1.38 seconds.. and a Javelin X has 16 shots. Though you could get off 6 shots). You still can't run, aim or use powers while reloading. And if you screw up the reload cancel when there's an enemy nearby, you're stuck with an empty weapon and you've wasted your opportunity to get out of there.

And, in case you forget, every weapon has an eject ratio, that determines what percentage of the reload animation must play before the animation can be effectively canceled. This allows BioWare to control and balance for reload canceling with even greater precision.

In the case of the Javelin, even when canceled its reload time is fairly long. So you still need to make those shots count when enemies are getting close.

Modifié par EvanKester, 03 février 2013 - 01:43 .

[LeandroBraz]

I don't have problem with people using it, most now that I know Bioware put it there intentionally, but I don't like to use it, it's just my personal taste, I enjoy the tension between two Claymore's shots...

[DJ Airsurfer]

Not this again...

[Reizo Ryuu]

Tokenusername wrote...

Well said. Reload times are an important factor in managing DPS for super hard hitting weapons. When you can bypass the reloading mechanic to use every shot you have for the Javelin in 15 seconds, it ruins the balence for the weapon. It makes no sense to even include longer reload times when it is so patheticly easy to bypass them. At least a game like GoW has a sort of skill check with a penalty for failure.

Cept GoW's system is almost exactly the same as what's happening in ME3;
In GoW if you fail the active reload the gun jams and takes longer to reload, but still reloads. Alternatively you can just cancel the reload animation if you passed the active reload mark and try again.
If you've seen any pros play that game you will see that they cancel all the active reloads they miss so they can try again.

The reason for this is because a perfect active reload nets the player a huge advantage in the form of a crazy damage boost, in fact the cut reload time isn't the big draw of the system in GoW, it's that huge boost you get from a perfect active reload.

And there really isn't a skill check with a penalty for the normal active reload, since you get a pretty reasonable amount of time to do it, and even if you fail the gun still reloads, in ME3 a failed canceled reload means that you must try again, cause the reload cancels completely; it's exactly the same "skill" scenario cept GoW made it visible specifically because of the perfect active reload boost.

If you think reload canceling a javeling is imbalanced, how crazy do you think it would become if ME3 had the same system and supplied that insane damage boost to it? Platinum would become the new bronze.

tl;dr it's not a visible mechanic because it doesn't need to be, in GoW it does.

[HiddenInWar]

Someone With Mass wrote...

If I can skip a pretty tedious animation because I see a bunch of guys that are about to kill me, I sure as hell will do it.

I can also skip that animation by using any power, dodging or start running for not even half a second. No need to mix in medi-gel and accidentally use it.

+1

Basically summed up my feelings on it. 

[Leonia]

I don't like it but I don't begrudge people who do use it to great effect. It's not an exploit so why should anyone worry about it.

LeandroBraz wrote...

I don't have problem with people using it, most now that I know Bioware put it there intentionally, but I don't like to use it, it's just my personal taste, I enjoy the tension between two Claymore's shots...

This, basically. I've grown used to not using RC and timing my shots and need to reload. A Claymore shouldn't fire off shots in quick succession but that's just my feelings, if other people want to go crazy and chew through the Claymore ammo at a faster rate that's their perogative. I've always been a slow and methodical player, there's no need to rush a glorious battle.

Modifié par leonia42, 03 février 2013 - 02:42 .

[cronshaw]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Chris Schanche wrote...

When we run damage numbers and DPS tests on weapons we factor in both normal firing time and reload cancel firing time. Some of our gameplay devs are big fighting game fans, and we overall feel that having some animation cancels available open up play and provide interesting skill growing opportunities, weapons and powers both play with this. Though we certainly want to be sure all our weapons still feel accessable and solid to people who don't do it.

And lets keep this thread civil, it looked like it was in danger of getting heated for a bit there. Everyone has a different platform and playstyle preference, lets respect those.

One thing, if you know, that I'm curious about is medi-gel being used to reload cancel. Since I'm told that it only works on PC, is it intended to work or not work?

Medi-gel being used for reload cancel was not intended behavior, however we do not consider it to be concerning enough to change at this point.

That isn't exactly a glowing endorsement