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Miranda Lawson: Dull or Interesting Character?

Débuté par Wanderer_Jones , févr. 03 2013 06:47

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#276
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 05:28

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ImaginaryMatter wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

In my mind she is a victim of the polarity of ME2. If your content is side content you're golden. However, if your content touches the main plot it gets fried.


Can you clarify this more?

I just think LotSB changed a lot of their priorities. What was DLC and side content became the basis for the main story.


This is just my reflection on ME2 as a whole. I do think ME2 does have good writing, actually some of the best writing in the series. However, that writing isn't in the required missions of the game (Shepard dying, joining Cerberus, the Collectors, the Collector Base decision, etc). That writing is in the recruitment and loyalty missions, the flavor text, world building on Illium (I really love Illium, don't like typing it though -- so many parallel lines!), etc.

In Miranda's case her Loyalty mission kinda defrosts her ice-queen image through touchy feely goodness. At the end of the game though, everyone is suddenly all set to leave Cerberus because TIM wanted to keep the base?


Oh, OK. Forget what I said about LotSB. That's another issue.

But yeah, I agree. That's why it's still my favorite too. The side missons/character writing/hubs. I just don't think they themselves realize how good they did that stuff. ME3 seems like a game that didn't borrow any lessons from it. It tried to drive "main plot" even more than ever and threw most of those characters they made under the bus.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 14 janvier 2014 - 05:29 .

#277
Ryzaki
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 05:34

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Seboist wrote...

She was promising until the point where she gets on the ship, where she switches personalities with Jacob and becomes an ice cream queen.


Thank you.

I thought I was the only one who felt that way.

#278
Jorji Costava
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 05:43

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MyChemicalBromance wrote...

My main complaint is that I never again got the impression she was the super-genius that defeated brain death after ME2's intro.


Agree with this. I think that Miranda could have easily been made into a polymath-type character, someone who knows more about engineering than the engineer, knows more about medicine than the doctor, knows more about the classics than most literature professors, etc. Miranda's mind should have received at least as much emphasis as her body, and it stands to reason that a genetically superior mind would come across as a know-it-all who makes everyone else feel insecure about their own competence. In turn, ordinary folks' lack of comparable mental prowess would probably make her rather impatient in her dealings with them.

Additionally, one thing we could do without is the whole angsting about her genetic background: "I don't deseve any credit for my accomplishments because of my genes! Waaah!" There's more I could add I guess, with Miranda's sister and whatnot, but I'll just leave it there.

#279
DeinonSlayer
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 05:47

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osbornep wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

My main complaint is that I never again got the impression she was the super-genius that defeated brain death after ME2's intro.


Agree with this. I think that Miranda could have easily been made into a polymath-type character, someone who knows more about engineering than the engineer, knows more about medicine than the doctor, knows more about the classics than most literature professors, etc. Miranda's mind should have received at least as much emphasis as her body, and it stands to reason that a genetically superior mind would come across as a know-it-all who makes everyone else feel insecure about their own competence. In turn, ordinary folks' lack of comparable mental prowess would probably make her rather impatient in her dealings with them.

Additionally, one thing we could do without is the whole angsting about her genetic background: "I don't deseve any credit for my accomplishments because of my genes! Waaah!" There's more I could add I guess, with Miranda's sister and whatnot, but I'll just leave it there.

Ugh, no. You're turning her into a bigger Mary Sue than Liara.

#280
Ryzaki
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 05:50

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Miranda's flaws could've just been her having a massive ego and it coming to bite her in the ass.

Would've been more amusing than the woe is me.

#281
Steelcan
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 05:51

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Ryzaki wrote...

Miranda's flaws could've just been her having a massive ego and it coming to bite her in the ass.

Would've been more amusing than the woe is me.


Come now


"Woe is me" is par for the course in ME...

#282
CronoDragoon
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 05:52

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osbornep wrote...

Agree with this. I think that Miranda could have easily been made into a polymath-type character,


I categorically hate this type of character, even if in this case it would be narratively justified. Maybe JRPGs have just given me too many bad examples.

#283
Jorji Costava
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 05:53

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Ugh, no. You're turning her into a bigger Mary Sue than Liara.


Don't see how this follows even slightly. We all know that technical know-how doesn't always translate into execution. Having tremendous booksmarts doesn't translate into having the most empathy, the most personal charisma, the most life or field experience, or any of those things. This is pretty much why political science PhD's don't automatically make the best world leaders.

#284
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 05:54

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It seemed like her genetic tailoring just became a reason to talk about Shepard. A sort of contination from Liara's comments in ME1. If you recall, Liara was all about advising Shepard to care about the galaxy more and how he/she is the best humanity had to offer. Miranda succumbs to similar thinking, but in this case, her genetic tailoring becomes a footnote to Shepard. That even with the best genes, she's not the best humanity can offer.

It could have been interesting by giving her more traits on her own, instead of just making it all about Shepard. They don't do this to Jack. Jack is the most powerful human biotic - and she has her own story and own struggles, regardless of Shepard. Shepard can't take any of it away.

#285
Steelcan
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 05:57

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StreetMagic wrote...

It seemed like her genetic tailoring just became a reason to talk about Shepard. A sort of contination from Liara's comments in ME1. If you recall, Liara was all about advising Shepard to care about the galaxy more and how he/she is the best humanity had to offer. Miranda succumbs to similar thinking, but in this case, her genetic tailoring becomes a footnote to Shepard. That even with the best genes, she's not the best humanity can offer.

It could have been interesting by giving her more traits on her own, instead of just making it all about Shepard. They don't do this to Jack. Jack is the most powerful human biotic - and she has her own story and own struggles, regardless of Shepard. Shepard can't take any of it away.


I think they could have done that easily, especially with a character WHO IS THE SECOND IN COMMAND OF A NOTORIOUS TERRORIST ORGANISATION

#286
Ryzaki
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 05:58

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Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Miranda's flaws could've just been her having a massive ego and it coming to bite her in the ass.

Would've been more amusing than the woe is me.


Come now


"Woe is me" is par for the course in ME...


That's the problem tho :crying:

#287
DeinonSlayer
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 05:58

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Ryzaki wrote...

Miranda's flaws could've just been her having a massive ego ass and it coming to bite her in the ass ego ass.

Would've been more amusing than the woe is me.

Tee hee hee.

Image IPB

#288
Steelcan
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 05:59

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Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Miranda's flaws could've just been her having a massive ego and it coming to bite her in the ass.

Would've been more amusing than the woe is me.


Come now


"Woe is me" is par for the course in ME...


That's the problem tho :crying:


But there's....

How about....





I got nothing, Javik at least puts it behind him

#289
Ryzaki
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 06:01

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Steelcan wrote...

But there's....

How about....





I got nothing, Javik at least puts it behind him


:lol: So sad but so true.

@Deinon: LMAO

#290
Steelcan
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 06:03

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Does this thread technically violate the moratorium on character discussion in the threads?

#291
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 06:04

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Steelcan wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

It seemed like her genetic tailoring just became a reason to talk about Shepard. A sort of contination from Liara's comments in ME1. If you recall, Liara was all about advising Shepard to care about the galaxy more and how he/she is the best humanity had to offer. Miranda succumbs to similar thinking, but in this case, her genetic tailoring becomes a footnote to Shepard. That even with the best genes, she's not the best humanity can offer.

It could have been interesting by giving her more traits on her own, instead of just making it all about Shepard. They don't do this to Jack. Jack is the most powerful human biotic - and she has her own story and own struggles, regardless of Shepard. Shepard can't take any of it away.


I think they could have done that easily, especially with a character WHO IS THE SECOND IN COMMAND OF A NOTORIOUS TERRORIST ORGANISATION


I agree, they could have. They just didn't.

Even Joker is the "best damn pilot" in the fleet. He got his thing that Shepard will never top him with.

#292
Steelcan
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 06:05

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StreetMagic wrote...

I agree, they could have. They just didn't.

Even Joker is the "best damn pilot" in the fleet. He got his thing that Shepard will never top him with.

well Shepard will never have assets quite as extensive as she does

#293
Jorji Costava
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 06:06

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CronoDragoon wrote...

I categorically hate this type of character, even if in this case it would be narratively justified. Maybe JRPGs have just given me too many bad examples.


Fair enough, although outside of Chrono Trigger, I've got no experience with JRPGs. I'd just say that it's not necessarily the job of the character to make us like her (I'd say that's part of the problem with Miranda as it is; her genetic tailoring is largely a way of making her into an object of desire for Shepard). In the context of an ostensibly SF story, what a character like Miranda ought to do, among other things, is give us a hint of the plausible consequences of there existing people genetically modified for physical and mental superiority. And I find it at least somewhat plausible that I wouldn't necessarily like such people.

#294
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 06:08

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She could've been a female Khan.

But that works better as a villain.

Still cool though.

#295
DeinonSlayer
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 06:09

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Steelcan wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

I agree, they could have. They just didn't.

Even Joker is the "best damn pilot" in the fleet. He got his thing that Shepard will never top him with.

well Shepard will never have assets quite as extensive as she does

Genetically engineered for buoyancy in case of nautical disaster! :wizard:

#296
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 06:10

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Well, I was thinking someone who had the traits of both CloneShep and Maya Brooks in one person. If they had waited to reveal someone like Miranda until now, she could've been that badass.

edit: I guess they were trying to convey some of this in Kai Leng too.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 14 janvier 2014 - 06:11 .

#297
Steelcan
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 06:11

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DeinonSlayer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

I agree, they could have. They just didn't.

Even Joker is the "best damn pilot" in the fleet. He got his thing that Shepard will never top him with.

well Shepard will never have assets quite as extensive as she does

Genetically engineered for buoyancy in case of nautical disaster! :wizard:


I am reminded of Donnelly

So...much...padding

#298
Steelcan
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 06:12

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StreetMagic wrote...

Well, I was thinking someone who had the traits of both CloneShep and Maya Brooks in one person. If they had waited to reveal someone like Miranda until now, she could've been that badass.

edit: I guess they were trying to convey some of this in Kai Leng too.

That's what it looks like to me, Kai Leng was supposed to be Shepard 2.0 and Brooks was Miranda 2.0

#299
CronoDragoon
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 06:14

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osbornep wrote...
Fair enough, although outside of Chrono Trigger, I've got no experience with JRPGs. I'd just say that it's not necessarily the job of the character to make us like her (I'd say that's part of the problem with Miranda as it is; her genetic tailoring is largely a way of making her into an object of desire for Shepard). In the context of an ostensibly SF story, what a character like Miranda ought to do, among other things, is give us a hint of the plausible consequences of there existing people genetically modified for physical and mental superiority. And I find it at least somewhat plausible that I wouldn't necessarily like such people.


Yeah, like I said in this case it would actually be justified, compared to 15-year-old prodigies that somehow know neurochemistry, existential philosophy, and the history of European art while still going to a normal Japanese public school. I suppose bad examples of supercompetence have spoiled good examples for me.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 14 janvier 2014 - 06:14 .

#300
Ryzaki
Posté 14 janvier 2014 - 06:17

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Steelcan wrote...

Does this thread technically violate the moratorium on character discussion in the threads?


It probably does but honestly *shrugs*


also replaying Jade Empire Master Li is such a better antagonist than any ME antagonist. It's goddamn sad.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 janvier 2014 - 06:18 .

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