404 réponses à ce sujet

[UnknownMercenary]

cato_84 wrote...

Cyonan, regarding phantoms & their DR, obviously I hate on them on host but I thought that their on host behaviour was considered by Bioware to be 'working as intended' and the lack of DR off-host was the issue. How are they bugged exactly?

Cerberus would quickly become a contender for most annoying faction if Phantom DR worked off-host.

A squad of near invincible flipping ninjas and lolgoons with lag?

[Zero 48444]

Cyonan wrote...
Some people also would actually call Phantoms a legit complaint(Air Quotes for sure) as well. It being a legit complaint or not is a subjective thing. Either way they are actually bugged on-host with their damage reduction.

Who is the authority on what is or is not a legit complaint?

BioWare ultimately has the final say on what they deem is legit.  Obviously, missile glitching had to be priority #1 on their "TO DO" list because of how detrimental it was to the entire 360 community, and the saturation of UR weapons "earned" from those matches spiked.

but, from a Cost vs Benefit analysis, it doesn't make sense to spend a ton of cash to research into Phantom DR or Geth Stunlock or Sync Kills when their time can be better spent on more game-breaking issues, like PC players not getting credits for matches, or the infinite loading screen of doom, or Missle glitching.  What drives me bonkers is the people of this forum (not all, but a lot) don't realize that BioWare doesn't have the time/money/resources to pick apart the complaint of the week at the drop of a dime.  You do, because you get it.  But the sense of entitlement is nearing that of those who send hate mail to players because they out scored them:  they didn't get their way.  They lost credits and can't own the fact that it maybe was their own fault, and want to blame something else other than themselves.

[Ubergrog]

I hope I can help solve some of this with my little token insights.

1. The game is winding down. It has been a year, it's over after the next DLC. It is not worth the money to patch the game beyond this final amount.

2. The other issues do not destroy playability of the game. Missile glitching does.

3. It costs a LOT of money to make a patch, some $40k. I confess the last one seemed like a waste of time, but making another would be another 40k lost.

4. Finally, they don't have to answer to any of you. They have their own priorities, stop assuming you know better then they do. 

Modifié par Ubergrog, 04 février 2013 - 06:06 .

[Zero 48444]

Ubergrog wrote...

I hope I can help solve some of this with my little token insights.

1. The game is winding down. It has been a year, it's over after the next DLC. It is not worth the money to patch the game beyond this final amount.

2. The other issues do not destroy playability of the game. Missile glitching does.

3. It costs a LOT of money to make a patch, some $40k. I confess the last one seemed like a waste of time, but making another would be another 40k lost.

4. Finally, they don't have to answer to any of you. They have their own priorities, stop assuming you know better then they do. 

+1
I like this human!  He understands!

[KiraTsukasa]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

I just love how people seem to think it takes a single button press to fix game code.

 

Nobody thinks that. Don't be obnoxious and holier-than-thou please.

That makes me grin, coming from you.

 

I may be obnoxious but rarely do I act holier-than-thou. 

Acting like people don't know something that is common knowledge is probably one of the best ways to annoy them and make them say nasty things to you.

He doesn't seem to show his "common knowledge" by demanding that everything be fixed yesterday.

[Uchimura]

Nothing's so broken unless you're really adamant about letting a bad match get to you. (Or if you're in some of the PS3 players' situation) If you feel every match that the game is too broken for you to enjoy it, then you should just move on.

[Cyonan]

Zero 48444 wrote...

BioWare ultimately has the final say on what they deem is legit.  Obviously, missile glitching had to be priority #1 on their "TO DO" list because of how detrimental it was to the entire 360 community, and the saturation of UR weapons "earned" from those matches spiked.

but, from a Cost vs Benefit analysis, it doesn't make sense to spend a ton of cash to research into Phantom DR or Geth Stunlock or Sync Kills when their time can be better spent on more game-breaking issues, like PC players not getting credits for matches, or the infinite loading screen of doom, or Missle glitching.  What drives me bonkers is the people of this forum (not all, but a lot) don't realize that BioWare doesn't have the time/money/resources to pick apart the complaint of the week at the drop of a dime.  You do, because you get it.  But the sense of entitlement is nearing that of those who send hate mail to players because they out scored them:  they didn't get their way.  They lost credits and can't own the fact that it maybe was their own fault, and want to blame something else other than themselves.

Yeah BioWare has the final say, but you said this forum needs more legit complaints. We don't know if BioWare thinks it's a good cost vs benefit before we post =P

All we can do is post our opinion as to what bug fixes we want the most, and let them pick out the best ones to go after.

I do think that people could stand to be more constructive, though as I said before that often doesn't happen on pretty much any gaming forum. It's hardly something that'll change any time soon.

cato_84 wrote...
Cyonan, regarding phantoms & their DR, obviously I hate on them on host but I thought that their on host behaviour was considered by Bioware to be 'working as intended' and the lack of DR off-host was the issue. How are they bugged exactly?

On-host their DR applies whenever they are moving, rather than just while they are flipping like off-host.

If the on-host is the working as intended version, then I'd have to agree with the people who say Phantoms should be nerfed since that gives them insane amounts of effective health if you don't have a stagger.

[cato potato]

Thanks Cyonan, given that info it does definitely seem like they're bugged on host, not off. At least I hope so, phantoms and 3 shot raiders are about the only upsides of being off-host compared to a myriad of downsides.

Also I need to mention ps3 collector freezes again as the only legitimately game breaking bug left now. A fix for that is needed, any other fixes would just be a bonus.

[samb]

 So what if they prioritize the bottom line?  What's the big deal?  Are there other bugs and problems? Sure but focusing on issues that directly affect profits is just sound business practice. You should never be naive enough to think EA is trying to uphold so social contract with gamers. They are a business and they want to make money, not friends. 

That being said; I don't think BW has been as evil or negligent as you say. They did do an extended cut for free didn't they?  And that was completely out of their own pockets. It didn't really benefit them in the slightest from a financial point of view. 

[MrGoldarm]

I gotto say i agree with the topic title and most of the OP.
It was the first thing that came to mind, when i read the changes after the patch.... I was so hoping for Phanthom host DR getting patched.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

KiraTsukasa wrote...
He doesn't seem to show his "common knowledge" by demanding that everything be fixed yesterday.

You really are coming across as having an axe to grind, Kira. I brought up multiple times that my issue was not that these were fixed yesterday, but that there's no way to claim that these issues have not been discussed, and, indeed, have been up in the air for several months if not longer. Nowhere did I say, or even imply, that OMG TIHS MUST BE FIXED NAO BIOWER.

Now what I did say was that these have been issues that have been brought up ad-nauseum for quite a while now, and that perhaps as this game winds down, they might want to focus on the biggest issues players have complained about, since we've had patch after patch where issues brought up were promised-to-be-fixed, and then weren't (the Geth for example).

[LoboFH]

First, a lot of dramatic issues in your OP are not bugs, are gameplay decissions, sync-kill and stunlock are not bugs, are gameplay features.

Yes, there are a lot of bugs that need to be fixed in this fantastic game, but BioWare fixed the most important ones that were ruining the experience:

1) Missil hack, luckily I am on PC, I would left the game if I play in a plataform where missile hackers are rampant and ruin all kind of challenge and gamey sense.

2) Vanguard glitch, that was ruining a whole class off-host.

A bugged evolution or mod or power needs to be fixed, indeed, but are not pressing matters, BioWare are not amateurs, they know how to priorize.

[JamesDobry]

I'm bumping this... for funzees.

[JamesDobry]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...
He doesn't seem to show his "common knowledge" by demanding that everything be fixed yesterday.

You really are coming across as having an axe to grind, Kira. I brought up multiple times that my issue was not that these were fixed yesterday, but that there's no way to claim that these issues have not been discussed, and, indeed, have been up in the air for several months if not longer. Nowhere did I say, or even imply, that OMG TIHS MUST BE FIXED NAO BIOWER.

Now what I did say was that these have been issues that have been brought up ad-nauseum for quite a while now, and that perhaps as this game winds down, they might want to focus on the biggest issues players have complained about, since we've had patch after patch where issues brought up were promised-to-be-fixed, and then weren't (the Geth for example).

Best consructed arguments i've seen about the issues of this game. Well said, for a Krogan. 
I'd like to add this if it's cool: http://social.biowar...index/15793907 
Cheers dude.

Modifié par JamesDobry, 04 février 2013 - 11:21 .

[ArcaptSSX]

The OP put very just words on what i thought about the patch and the issues that bother me the most.

[Fortack]

Signed

[nicethugbert]

/signed

Ever since EA bought Bioware, Bioware game support has diminished.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 04 février 2013 - 11:58 .

[jvaz]

* The Geth In General: They get stunlock because they have no synckill ability. The bomber was made to make camping less viable. Have you seen the range on flamer when you take the distance evo? Pyros have the same (15 m) distance for their flamer but don't actually activate it from that far away. You have to be with 8m of the Pyro before they will flame you. For reference, that 15m distance can cover almost the entire length of the long back staircase of Glacier. How fast can you fire your Cobra Missiles? Faster than the Rocket Trooper. Barring Hunter shots the Geth are ok. To call yourself a "veteran" player and having trouble or unwillingless to fight a faction means you just arent that veteran....

* The Collectors in General: The Collectors are overpowered as hell to people who don't know how to fight them. The Scion is slow, takes double damage on its weak spot and is very easy to get headshots on using right hand advantage. Collector Captains are supposed to be stronger than phantoms. Enemy prioritization and staying on the move is key when fighting this faction. If you are a power reliant class that means you need to stay situationally aware of seeker swarms. Barring the Praetorian eye lasers, the Collectors are a refreshing and fun faction to fight when you fight them correctly.

* Assault Rifle Inefficiency: Are you new to Mass Effect? AR's never really did that much damage in most instances in all titles barring the OP ones (HWMA Spectre AR and some others in ME1, Revenant <only with AR active>, Mattock in ME2, Particle Rifle and Harrier in ME3.). The point of assault rifles is that their damage is rather low compared to other weapons but they can reliably inflict that damage and more when the right set up, kit, and consumables are used. YES i include consumables because barring the Harrier and some other weapons, the damage numbers for weapons were made with the use of consumables, passives, and headshot multipliers in mind.

* Weapons Being More Accurate When Hip-Fired Than When Aimed: I'll give you this somewhat. But you are primarily talking about SMG's right? You know they are meant to be hip fired even in real life? Also they are meant to be used at close to close-medium range to be most effective with the exception being the Locust

* Sniper Rifle No-Scope Penalty: This was done as a necessity. Not having the no scope penalty would completely break the game. Can you imagine people going around just no scoping with high powered SR's doing full damage?

* The Spawn Issues: I'll give you this one.

* Countless class Bugs: I'll give you SOME of this one. But specifically the shadow strike not working on the Atlas was intended after they added back in bonus damage to a weak point on the Atlas.

* Pet Power Overnerf/Power Issue.: Another one that I will give you SOME of. However, if you spec your kit out right and use these power in the proper context you're still fine to a degree. Turrets and Drones and Decoys, though are meant to DISTRACT the enemy not kill them. I mean if they kill an enemy that is a bonus but their main purpose was always to distract.

* Sync-Kill Issues: Made to balance the game against stagger immune and resistant kits and melee kits. Easy to avoid when you know the attack pattern of your enemy. If you know a Banshee is nearby, either damage her so she stops teleporting or get the hell away from her. Nuff said.

[FataliTensei]

I agree with all of these issues and I think they should have come first, but let's cut the crap, this EA, their bottom line is all that matters to them and they're in charge of Bioware now. That's the essence of capitalism, it's not an excuse, but it's the reality of it.

[Xeraphas]

All enemies should have cooldowns between power/skill uses. Few actually have one at this time though.

All weapons have some issues working as they should per type. Shotguns, wide area damage short range, inaccurate (are they? How many can hit more than one target?) SMGS, rapid fire, low accuracy, low stability (That should be able to be overcome by using short bursts of fire), Sniper rifles with a hip shot damage penalty? LOL. That is so believable.  NOT!  Pistols? They typically use the same ammo as SMGS but have more punch per round because they usually have larger cartridges. End result, medium range, powerful, accurate, power dips off over longer distances more than rifles but less than shotguns and smgs. Assault rifles? Some assault rifles were actually used as sniper rifles. Assault rifles have alot of power and fairly high rates of fire but not as high of a rate of fire as SMGs which are basically pistols with machine gun rates of fire. Assault rifles are supposed to be the most versatile of all the gun types in the game. They should be powerful, accurate, good rates of fire, and should be able to fire at hight rates of fire or at slower rates of fire. It would not be unrealistic if an assault rifle could fire one round with careful aim or switch and fire 30 rounds in a minute at a target with short bursts of fire to keep some semblance of control for the aim. They use larger rounds than pistols or smgs. Some may even use the same rounds as sniper rifles.

Geth are crappy right now. The Geth Bomber is the best melee unit. If BW removed that part of them, then bombers would not be so silly. Factions do not need to be made like one another. Part of each faction's appeal are their differences. Drones stun more frequently than any other Geth unit. Some units are invulnerable, like the cloaked hunter. How come players do not get to be invulnerable when cloaked or even when standing up after a revive long enough to move just a step even?

Collectors are weak to biotic attacks. That is cool. But they have struggled for months before recent changes still under evaluation of receiving combo explosion attacks. Praetorians have all the benefits of every boss unit from every faction, speed, sync kill, high health, high damage close and high accurate damage at range plus since they fly they have a slightly harder to hit advantage. I have to agree with an earlier post that offered the idea of recharge. In the case of Praetorians, their shield bubble or their laser eyes should not be usable if they are moving. Scions need a charge time on powers and some kind of accuracy debuffing factor if players are say, behind good cover, dodging, or running.

There are alot of issues that should take priority over missile Glitch. I have never used it and I do not even think I ever saw it but maybe, just maybe one or two times in all the games i ever played.

Some that come to mind:

Why do Geth Rocket troopers have gatling guns yet shoot rockets? 

Why are Geth hunters invulnerable when cloaked?

Why do so many enemies walk sideways now?

Why do enemies aim and look at a wall but shoot you on their right hand side?   (100 degree firing guns with mirrors on them?)

Why are phantoms better snipers than Cerberus Snipers? LOL
by the same token, why are Cerberus snipers more agile than Phantoms? Are their traits swapped here?

How can enemies sync kill you before you even complete the stand animation? or just redown you?  They know you are recovering before you do?  Apparently in the future all enemies of Earth and their alien allies have super psychic powers.  They can also tell where you will be before you do and shoot you where you are going.  

Why is the Geth bomber a better melee unit than EVERY other Geth unit?

Why do Dragoons need so little cool down time and why do they not swap to some generic melee attack with every other attack as opposed to using whips constantly? Do they even have a gun?

Why do banshees jump more than they walk now? Why are there 3 banshees and 4 brutes at once in each wave on gold? Why do both respawn faster than a Geth Prime respawns a drone or turret (Which is pretty fast).

I agree with pretty much all what you posted. Generally speaking what is good for the goose is not good for the gander. In other words, the same rules and physics do not apply to players as which apply to enemies and vice versa. If these rules were more similar would it not be easier to evenly balance everything and make things a bit more bug and glitch free?

It has been said before where some forum members argue, players have more advantages than enemies or where enemies have more than players or more bugs or more cheats. But there are a few differences. One, enemies do not get banned for cheating, though they do and ALOT. Even by the game's own rules and so called physics. Players do get banned for cheating. Enemies do not lose if they all get downed. Players do lose if they all get downed. Enemies do not need to complete any objectives, but players do. Every enemy unit save a handful has more health and shields than every player character, plus they have armor components and agility defense components which players do not have at all. Players can use missile mass destruction, but technically so do enemies (like the Atlas, Banshee, or something nearly equivalent), the difference is the enemy usually has a wider area of attack but less damage though they have more accuracy and more rounds available plus their missile like attacks do not have to hit the players directly to do the damage. Most have such a high damage over time added effect that even if the player escapes they can still drop dead long after the enemy that shot them is gone.  Enemies do not need to replenish ammo, players do.

If all things worked as they were supposed to though, I could potentially see the game as what it should be. PURE FUN. I can see that players could potentially decimate hordes of enemies with the right team work or combo attacks, if they act first and can catch said enemies in the right places at the right times. I am not say it is not fun but it does carry alot of frustration with that fun caused by all the bugs and glitches.

Modifié par Xeraphas, 05 février 2013 - 12:33 .

[Arctican]

jvaz wrote...

* Countless class Bugs: I'll give you SOME of this one. But specifically the shadow strike not working on the Atlas was intended after they added back in bonus damage to a weak point on the Atlas.

 

That is a bug. If that was intended why only penalize Shadow Strike?

[Flambrose]

jvaz wrote...

* The Collectors in General: The Collectors are overpowered as hell to people who don't know how to fight them. The Scion is slow, takes double damage on its weak spot and is very easy to get headshots on using right hand advantage. Collector Captains are supposed to be stronger than phantoms. Enemy prioritization and staying on the move is key when fighting this faction. If you are a power reliant class that means you need to stay situationally aware of seeker swarms. Barring the Praetorian eye lasers, the Collectors are a refreshing and fun faction to fight when you fight them correctly.

Statistically, they are more durable and stronger than any equivalent unit on any other faction. Seeker swarms are popularly regarded as way too durable for what they are. Scion, in my opinion, should not be able to stagger with a shot that does so much damage, not to mention its stupidly large blast radius on impact. They are overpowered compared to other factions. That is a fact. I don't mind them being stronger to a point, but some of the design decisions are just flawed.

* Sniper Rifle No-Scope Penalty: This was done as a necessity. Not having the no scope penalty would completely break the game. Can you imagine people going around just no scoping with high powered SR's doing full damage?

Wouldn't be broken at all. If anything, an accuracy penalty would have been justified.

* Countless class Bugs: I'll give you SOME of this one. But specifically the shadow strike not working on the Atlas was intended after they added back in bonus damage to a weak point on the Atlas.

There is no proof whatsoever that this is the case. Baseless assumption. We've had comments from Bryan that they altered Shadow Strike in a way to prevent other glitches. This is also consistent with height targeting issues that SS has had since the retaliation patch.

* Sync-Kill Issues: Made to balance the game against stagger immune and resistant kits and melee kits.

Yeah, gotta nerf those awful DPS melee builds into the ground.

Modifié par Flambrose, 05 février 2013 - 12:37 .

[The Renegade Fem-Shep]

In the end its all a fantasy.

[Lucky]

OP, while some of the things you mention in your post are gameplay decisions and not bugs, I agree with your point wholeheartedly that this last patch was a real letdown and showed just where their priorities lie. I'm on PS3 and it was easy enough just to kick missile glitchers out. However, there is nothing I can do about the collector hard freezes or the numerous bugs associated with powers and/or their evolutions.

I mean c'mon things like snap freeze and electric slash's tech detonation evolutions are still broken this long after they came out? Atlas mechs still take double or triple damage on parts of their canopies. Geth bombers still randomly ignore powers (not dodge just ignore) like overload or dark channel.

To those who say 'of course the bottom line is profit and fixing what brings in the cash' all I can say is that is a very short term view for a company to take. If they want to sell new games in the future they have to make their games work soundly now.

[samb]

 I just wanted to make a stealth brag that all of OP's points are invalid because I find this game way too easy. Anyone who complains about it just suck at it. I solo plat on collectors with an avenger I in under 5 minutes. 

And since I'm better at this game than you, my opinion automatically matters more so STFU.