404 réponses à ce sujet

[ToaOrka]

nicethugbert wrote...

/signed

Ever since EA bought Bioware, Bioware game support has diminished.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

samb wrote...

 I just wanted to make a stealth brag that all of OP's points are invalid because I find this game way too easy. Anyone who complains about it just suck at it. I solo plat on collectors with an avenger I in under 5 minutes. 

And since I'm better at this game than you, my opinion automatically matters more so STFU. 

Come on, you can do better than that.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Cyonan wrote...

I think the only one on that list I've played is Perfect Dark(which I always used the Laptop Gun anyway).

Still though, plenty of guns go for the "still accurate but reduced damage" route.

One PvP game I play, Hawken, does this for the Sharpshooter Mech and I actually perfer that to having laughable accuracy since it means I can still reliably finish off wounded targets unscoped with a dual shot from both my guns.

Real men throw Dragons.

I jest. The point I was getting at was that accuracy reduction for no-scoping, rather than damage reduction for no-scoping, makes more sense, is more sound mechanically, and moreover, shouldn't even be that hard to program in. It would be a great boon to the Raptor, Incisor, Viper, Indra, and Collector Sniper.

As an idle corollary question, why are many high-recoil guns (Hornet, Argus, etc) less accurate when aimed than when hip-fired? That doesn't even begin to make sense. If I'm hindering my movement speed by using aimed shots, then I damned well better get better accuracy as part of the bargain.

[Ezmarii]

Don't have much new to contribute, aside from I agree, please use my post as another voice to add to the number who agrees that none of the major issues have been addressed, it's like they're being danced around on purpose.

edit: Unfortunately we all know how this works as a business, as these issues take money in the form of man-hours and there is no return/revenue stream from continuing to update MP, we all know that bryan and his team are just doing as much as they can with what little is given to keep both his team active while on downtime between game releases and us happy just enough to keep the carrot close...conspiracy

Modifié par Ezmarii, 05 février 2013 - 02:30 .

[Cyonan]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

Real men throw Dragons.

I jest. The point I was getting at was that accuracy reduction for no-scoping, rather than damage reduction for no-scoping, makes more sense, is more sound mechanically, and moreover, shouldn't even be that hard to program in. It would be a great boon to the Raptor, Incisor, Viper, Indra, and Collector Sniper.

As an idle corollary question, why are many high-recoil guns (Hornet, Argus, etc) less accurate when aimed than when hip-fired? That doesn't even begin to make sense. If I'm hindering my movement speed by using aimed shots, then I damned well better get better accuracy as part of the bargain.

My point was mostly that games do sometimes go for the damage and sometimes it can even be preferable(though 50% is a little harsh imo. I'm not killing off anything with that except Husks)

The inaccuracies while aiming with certain guns have to do with their recoil. Spread decreases but recoil increases while aiming.

So for the Hornet, the spread is 1.25 - 2.5 hip fired vs 0.85 - 1.65 aiming but the recoil is 0.575 hip fired vs 0.85 aimed.

The end result is that the average player will hit more of their rounds if they aren't aiming.

Except for of course certain pellet based shotguns like the Wraith, which actually do have a smaller spread when hip fired.

[JimmyHeathen]

i agree with most of the op points
espicially with regards to the geth, the introduction of geth bomber and stun drone were seriously bad ideas

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Air Quotes wrote...

Did you noticed how quickly and frequently devs respond to some "non-important" and not even game related threads and how rarely they respond to legitimate bug complains and balance issues?

The last patch was a JOKE. And the new DLC will undoubtedly bring more bugs.

I brought this up in the aforementioned thread I discussed this issue with Bryan in, noble Air Quotes, but it does bear repeating: The very focus on this issue above all else has factored into the overarching opine many have about the store-system and metagame writ large, which is one reason I made the posts I did. This is especially true when you consider how much of Retaliation's content is literally in a fresh-out-of-beta state, with many, many bugs.

Whether the truth is that the lack of dev response to countless issues that have been discussed ad-infinitum is the result of NDAs and the like, or an indication of something darker, the fact of the matter remains that at the end of the day, this has given boundless evidence to those who claim that this is proof of there being no legitimate interest in fixing the game.

When I brought up the synckill issue, and specifically how the game seems to blatantly ignore its own "rules" regarding them (Phantoms synckilling when disarmed, all synckillers capable of synckilling players in the middle of invulnerability (Biotic Charge/Shadow Strike/Havoc Strike/Teleport Dash/Spawning/Reviving) and synckilling when staggered or off-balanced, just to name a few), I did research to see if there had been any dev responses to the sync-kill issue in general beyond the "Magnet Hands" issue. The answer, after three hours of searching with the wayback machine, was a resounding "no," and I brought this up in many a thread. When we had this as the closest thing I could find to an official response, that kind of made me shake my head in exasperation. I'm not one to chime in on the Biower pls bandwagon, but the simple fact is that there was sufficient evidence in the Synckill threads alone to make the argument that no one in the dev team gave a toss, simply by virtue of the Synckill issues mentioned in just this paragraph alone being mentioned since before the game was even properly out, thanks to the demo. And that's just not right.

Would it really be so much of an NDA breach to say "We're working on it?" I don't know. All I know is, there's a lot of bad decisions going on, and a little information here or there could have done a lot of damage control on this.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Cyonan wrote...

My point was mostly that games do sometimes go for the damage and sometimes it can even be preferable(though 50% is a little harsh imo. I'm not killing off anything with that except Husks)

The inaccuracies while aiming with certain guns have to do with their recoil. Spread decreases but recoil increases while aiming.

So for the Hornet, the spread is 1.25 - 2.5 hip fired vs 0.85 - 1.65 aiming but the recoil is 0.575 hip fired vs 0.85 aimed.

The end result is that the average player will hit more of their rounds if they aren't aiming.

Except for of course certain pellet based shotguns like the Wraith, which actually do have a smaller spread when hip fired.

I swear, I learn new stuff every day from you.

Why does the Wraith cone tighten and recoil decrease  when not aimed? I'm readying the weapon to stabilize it, an--  That doesn't even-- You know what, I'm not going to try to pretend to understand the logic here. I get the distinct feeling that if I do, I'm going to get a headache and will start smelling burnt toast despite none being present.

[Cyonan]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

I swear, I learn new stuff every day from you.

Why does the Wraith cone tighten and recoil decrease when not aimed? I'm readying the weapon to stabilize it, an-- That doesn't even-- You know what, I'm not going to try to pretend to understand the logic here. I get the distinct feeling that if I do, I'm going to get a headache and will start smelling burnt toast despite none being present.

Actually I just tested it and it seems as though the spread is not all that different between hip firing, aiming, or being in cover.

I did feel like the spread was a bit more consistent while hip firing(which would help give the illusion of being more accurate) however.

All pellet based shotguns don't increase their accuracy while being in cover or aiming though.

[Noipsaj]

Why do Geth Rocket troopers have gatling guns yet shoot rockets?

Why are Geth hunters invulnerable when cloaked?

Why do so many enemies walk sideways now?

Why do enemies aim and look at a wall but shoot you on their right hand side? (100 degree firing guns with mirrors on them?)

Why are phantoms better snipers than Cerberus Snipers? LOL
by the same token, why are Cerberus snipers more agile than Phantoms? Are their traits swapped here?

How can enemies sync kill you before you even complete the stand animation? or just redown you? They know you are recovering before you do? Apparently in the future all enemies of Earth and their alien allies have super psychic powers. They can also tell where you will be before you do and shoot you where you are going.

Why is the Geth bomber a better melee unit than EVERY other Geth unit?

Why do Dragoons need so little cool down time and why do they not swap to some generic melee attack with every other attack as opposed to using whips constantly? Do they even have a gun?

Why do banshees jump more than they walk now? Why are there 3 banshees and 4 brutes at once in each wave on gold? Why do both respawn faster than a Geth Prime respawns a drone or turret (Which is pretty fast).

This 

All of this make me SAD 

Modifié par Noipsaj, 05 février 2013 - 03:04 .

[Bryan Johnson]

@JaimasOfRaxis and @Air Quotes

I decided to make another post since it seems to be another thing directed to me. The posts that I repond to are ones I can directly influence or respond to. Example the acolyte and character cards, I can point directly to the lines of code/config that caused the issue and it can be fixed via a server, I did the investigation and the explanation of the fix, it's easy. 

As I stated in the other thread there are some bugs that won't be fixed, the very commenting of an issue that will not be fixed. We simply do not exist in a vacuum we see issues and acknowledge them internally. Immediately after that thread I posted in another thread basically saying "we are aware of this issue" instantly was barraged with questions like "how did you guys not see this", "when is this going to be fixed", "what about this issue are you ever going to look into it" etc. 

[Ryu Connor]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

Would it really be so much of an NDA breach to say "We're working on it?" I don't know. All I know is, there's a lot of bad decisions going on, and a little information here or there could have done a lot of damage control on this.

While there may be something like an NDA lurking here or there that stills their tongues, I suspect the predominant reason is more simplistic.  It is a corporate culture issue.  I'm not sure if the issue stems from policy set forth by Bioware internally, from EA, or worse a combination of both.

Regardless of who set the policy and created this culture of silence, it makes for some of the worst community relations I've seen from a gaming company.  It also represents the very antithesis of what an experienced game producer would tell you to do.  The premise isn't just a book discussion, plenty of developer blogs go there too.

I feel the situation creates a self-reinforcing problem as well.  Some truly facepalm worthy things have been said by staff when they have spoken.  Hard to get good at massaging the message when you can't or won't wade in and practice.

[Ryu Connor]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

As I stated in the other thread there are some bugs that won't be fixed, the very commenting of an issue that will not be fixed. We simply do not exist in a vacuum we see issues and acknowledge them internally. Immediately after that thread I posted in another thread basically saying "we are aware of this issue" instantly was barraged with questions like "how did you guys not see this", "when is this going to be fixed", "what about this issue are you ever going to look into it" etc. 

Noise from the minority shouldn't be a deterrent or excuse for avoiding meaningful discussion to the greater majority with a spark of intelligence.

 

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Ryu Connor wrote...

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

Would it really be so much of an NDA breach to say "We're working on it?" I don't know. All I know is, there's a lot of bad decisions going on, and a little information here or there could have done a lot of damage control on this.

While there may be something like an NDA lurking here or there that stills their tongues, I suspect the predominant reason is more simplistic.  It is a corporate culture issue.  I'm not sure if the issue stems from policy set forth by Bioware internally, from EA, or worse a combination of both.

Regardless of who set the policy and created this culture of silence, it makes for some of the worst community relations I've seen from a gaming company.  It also represents the very antithesis of what an experienced game producer would tell you to do.  The premise isn't just a book discussion, plenty of developer blogs go there too.

I feel the situation creates a self-reinforcing problem as well.  Some truly facepalm worthy things have been said by staff when they have spoken.  Hard to get good at massaging the message when you can't or won't wade in and practice.

Very true, and quite insightful. I tip my hat to you, good Ryu.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Ryu Connor wrote...

Noise from the minority shouldn't be a deterrent or excuse for avoiding meaningful discussion to the greater majority with a spark of intelligence.

 

This. If I could give individual posts stars, this one would get a five from me.

I'll also add an addendum, for good measure.

Without responding to discourse from the community, there's no evidence whatsoever that the powers that be are even aware of the problem, which contributes, yet again, to the ongoing belief structure that the insight of the playerbase (I.E. who's playing the game) simplt isn't that important.

When we have thread after thread with information from all across the community about a wide array of topics, from the spawn system, to geth stunlock, to any of the dozens of other issues one might care to bring up, and see minimal - if any - developer commentary about any of them, it lends itself to two considerations that anyone with functioning senses of logic and reason will come to:

1) That they are not aware of the problem
2) That they are aware, and the problem has not been addressed/is being addressed/will be addressed

The result, of course, of both, is obvious, but not responding on these is an issue that makes the situation all the harder. The "EA/Bioware doesn't care" crowd gets literally infinite ammunition by dev silence on the first, and the "the patches are all about the bottom line" crowd gets the same from the first part of the second. Furthermore, if there is progress to be made, in the present or future, does it not follow that some level of information would be forthcoming in order to prevent the first two problems ipso facto?

It's common sense, really. Again, we all know about the NDAs and such, and I used to work in the industry, so I know what's involved, but even with that in mind, there's some serious communications issues going on here.

I understand that Bryan's commenting on a thread generally invites a barrage of posts like "How did this slip past QA testing," and I sympathize, but the simple fact of the matter is that it's because of how ME3 is right now. There's a lot in ME3 that shows very questionable design choices (seriously, how could anyone not see the Krysae being an issue) and minimal testing (the barrage of bugs in Retaliation for almost every class), so one is going to get posts like that whether one likes it or not, and it should not be a deterrant from having productive discourse.

Modifié par JaimasOfRaxis, 05 février 2013 - 03:51 .

[Bryan Johnson]

Ryu Connor wrote...

Noise from the minority shouldn't be a deterrent or excuse for avoiding meaningful discussion to the greater majority with a spark of intelligence.

I do not shy away from intelligent discussion, I am stating that my very presence tends to be overall a negative response based on that minority. Plus if there was to discuss that would be one thing, the general response would be one of the five following:
1. Thanks we will investigate this issue
2. Thanks we have investigated this issue and determined it is by design
3. We are aware of this and are not fixing it
4. We are aware of this and are fixing it
5. I can not discuss this

I am unsure of what of these will actually generate much intelligent discussion. This is generally because the argument would be made to me, regardless of if i have control to influence them or not. You speak about company culture I would agree to a degree, but generally your community support guy is not even on the team directly and to even comment on things would therefore either be handcuffing the team or lying under some circumstances. Furthermore my particular role is generally confined to option 1 and 2 (which is also persued to PM)

[Bryan Johnson]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...
I understand that Bryan's commenting on a thread generally invites a barrage of posts like "How did this slip past QA testing," and I sympathize, but the simple fact of the matter is that it's because of how ME3 is right now. There's a lot in ME3 that shows very questionable design choices (seriously, how could anyone not see the Krysae being an issue) and minimal testing (the barrage of bugs in Retaliation for almost every class), so one is going to get posts like that whether one likes it or not, and it should not be a deterrant from having productive discourse.

There is a certain degree of "what is acceptable" when you get down to a time crunch situation it becomes a question of what is worth it to fix and what is not. Well there might exist bugs like you have mentioned in the Retaliation the question of is there anything that would instantly cause the pack to stop from shipping, one could say that the kits are usable (and people do use them) so it is not a stop ship scenario. Furthermore in that regard it is not a QA problem (which is another problem), the automatic assumption that anything is a bug is simply the fault of a QA missing it. There is a process (I am not directing this at you) called bug triage, where essentially decisions are made about whether bugs are to be fixed or not. 

What you determine to be a stop ship bug and what I determine to be a stop ship bug can be vastly different, as it is a matter of prespective and we are not always going to see eye to eye. In the end though it is a decision that is not going to necessarly be a popular one.

At this time I am going to advocate again to those that haven't to watch the Extra Credits Episode "So you want to be a producer".

The statement of uncaring is one that is an easy blanket to hide behind, because it is one that is very easy to make and examples to show otherwise are just exceptions. Perception, although it may be grounded or not, are one that is very very hard to shake. Case and point this multiplayer, the perception was for a long time that it was about the stupidest decision that would ever be done to the franchise. This perception has changed (mostly through the demo) but the simple fact no matter it is what was said the perception was still there.

[doozerdude]

Morugatu wrote...

In the end its all a fantasy.

Is this the reeeaaaalll liiiiiiife?

[samb]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

samb wrote...

 I just wanted to make a stealth brag that all of OP's points are invalid because I find this game way too easy. Anyone who complains about it just suck at it. I solo plat on collectors with an avenger I in under 5 minutes. 

And since I'm better at this game than you, my opinion automatically matters more so STFU. 

Come on, you can do better than that.

Hey I was trolling for your cause man!! This is the thanks I get?  

[JaimasOfRaxis]

This is true, noble Bryan, but the fact remains that it could have been mitigated.

[Ryu Connor]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

I do not shy away from intelligent discussion, I am stating that my very presence tends to be overall a negative response based on that minority. Plus if there was to discuss that would be one thing, the general response would be one of the five following:
1. Thanks we will investigate this issue
2. Thanks we have investigated this issue and determined it is by design
3. We are aware of this and are not fixing it
4. We are aware of this and are fixing it
5. I can not discuss this

I am unsure of what of these will actually generate much intelligent discussion. This is generally because the argument would be made to me, regardless of if i have control to influence them or not. You speak about company culture I would agree to a degree, but generally your community support guy is not even on the team directly and to even comment on things would therefore either be handcuffing the team or lying under some circumstances. Furthermore my particular role is generally confined to option 1 and 2 (which is also persued to PM)

Even if I have the ratio backwards, that the noise is the majority and the spark of intelligence in the minority, I feel is a task still worth facing.  You're undoubtedly seeing some GIFT issues and to endure that regularly stinks.  I can sympathize with how you feel.

I respectfully disagree with you being a negative, I may not always like the news you bring.  I may not always agree with the choices the team made, but I respect that you were willing to bring them here to us.  Yeah, sometimes the community is unfair and sometimes the community is fair in the lumps it dishes out.  I'm undoubtedly sure that you and the other developers that frequent this forum have at times silently agreed with our vocal disappointment.

Given the fastidiousness of some of the individuals who frequent these forums, your answers might even turn into a handy FAQ.  The theory crafters would totally eat up a more confirmed interaction of bugged, by design, and bad text description.  Personally speaking answers four and five are excellent for me.  Your answers might create a little controversy now and again, but the forums have the means to deal with that through the moderation staff.

As I recall you gave answer six with regard to text based chat for PC.  Yeah, the conversation got a little hot there, but it's not like the flame permanently burned.  We didn't like the answer, it left many perplexed, but we all moved on.  We know where things stand, there's no sense in crying over spilt milk.

Going through the stages of grief (heh) was a better outcome than not knowing at all.  Sure we'd like more robust answers, but hey if wishes were horses beggars would ride.  You are a positive force on this forum even in the event that the answer creates drama.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

samb wrote...

Hey I was trolling for your cause man!! This is the thanks I get?  

Come, noble samb, you have much stronger trolling arts than this at your disposal. Go big! Show your real might! Michael Bay this thing!

[Lucky]

I believe all (or at least most of us) understand that bug fixing and testing are processes limited by resources. That said I think what upsets people most is that the tremendous amount of resources that go into bringing out a patch were poured out essentially to deal with one issue.

Hopefully things such as evolutions of characters literally doing nothing, looking at you tech detonation bonuses, are worth fixing or at least creating an alternative evolution for the power.

[Quikraptor]

This thread so hard.

I understand that people might be upset for "losing" their level 4 consumables, but I tend to think of all these and that I'd have used those consumables anyway. I spent what I planned to spend and I got the result I paid for, even if the extra gear wasn't necessary.

[Bryan Johnson]

Ryu Connor wrote...
Even if I have the ratio backwards, that the noise is the majority and the spark of intelligence in the minority, I feel is a task still worth facing.  You're undoubtedly seeing some GIFT issues and to endure that regularly stinks.  I can sympathize with how you feel.

I respectfully disagree with you being a negative, I may not always like the news you bring.  I may not always agree with the choices the team made, but I respect that you were willing to bring them here to us.  Yeah, sometimes the community is unfair and sometimes the community is fair in the lumps it dishes out.  I'm undoubtedly sure that you and the other developers that frequent this forum have at times silently agreed with our vocal disappointment.

Given the fastidiousness of some of the individuals who frequent these forums, your answers might even turn into a handy FAQ.  The theory crafters would totally eat up a more confirmed interaction of bugged, by design, and bad text description.  Personally speaking answers four and five are excellent for me.  Your answers might create a little controversy now and again, but the forums have the means to deal with that through the moderation staff.

As I recall you gave answer six with regard to text based chat for PC.  Yeah, the conversation got a little hot there, but it's not like the flame permanently burned.  We didn't like the answer, it left many perplexed, but we all moved on.  We know where things stand, there's no sense in crying over spilt milk.

Going through the stages of grief (heh) was a better outcome than not knowing at all.  Sure we'd like more robust answers, but hey if wishes were horses beggars would ride.  You are a positive force on this forum even in the event that the answer creates drama.

"I feel it is a task still worth facing" that depends on what the role it is that you decide to play, my role is to report issues to our team internally, I feel I do that. Furthermore the time that I post is normally during my off hours, so I do not believe I should be faulted for what I choose to respond/not respond to (as I sometimes am). 

You may disagree, but there is a certain infinity of when I post things tend to go off topic (less so now that I post more frequently) mind you. But given that threads will turn there entire focus towards what I say, then it almost becomes an obligation that I am to respond. 

Your example of text chat does state that it got a little heated, but didn't burn permanately. I would imagine jumping from issue to issue might also create such heat and although they might not last long, it certainly would be a constant game of out of the fire and into the firing pan. 

Furthermore I am not of a hive mind, I can not possibly be able to follow up on every single issue. While I may be the one who reports issues, I am not necessarly the who follows up on them and finds out their status whether it is investigation/WNF (Will not Fix)/Being fixed etc. Doing so would be outside of the role with which I have been placed in, and thus make me less of an effective employee.