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[Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd]

Completely agree with everything you listed.

[Shadohz]

Ryu Connor wrote...
When factoring character bugs there might be twelve there.

Warp + Incendiary ammo bug.
Shield Boost stuck character bug.
Annihilation Field visual bug. 
Quarian Marksman Health bug.
Incinerate Freeze Combo bug.
Paladin centered tech explosions bug.
Snap Freeze Tech Combo bug.
Shadow Strike Atlas bug.
Sticky grenade audio loudness bug.
Huntress Tactical Cloak weapon damage bug.
Drell Assassin Tactical Cloak + Recon mine bug.
The new weapon mods that add weight don't add weight to the non-DLC weapons bug.

All these various little bugs means those who don't read the forums essentially end up wasting points in skills and have the class hampered silently by others.  I don't really consider ignorance bliss.

That hits twelve.  I probably could think of more if I sat here a bit longer.  Some are brand new, some are slightly old, some are shipping.

The Shadow Strike/Atlas change was an enhancement, not a bug.

okay i'll stop now.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Bryan Johnson wrote...
You are strickly speaking in terms of balance and although some guns (I agree) are under powered, they do not have to be gold viable (the usual metric people use). To be fair the majority of players do not even play gold, so those weapons might be perfectly acceptable on the lower (more popular difficulties). For example strictly speaking I (personally) think the Hornet is horribly under powered, yet I know people that can make that gun sing. Yet I think of that list the Striker and CAR are quite good guns on gold.

For your information, yes, the Striker is amazing, and it coincides nicely with multiple classes and builds. Human and BF3 Soldier, Destroyer, any Turian class, the list goes on. The CAR, meanwhile, is not; it's underpowered and inefficient, and as someone who's had one since launch day and have labbed the hell out of it, I feel accurate in listing off that opinion. I've been over this in the other thread as well, but suffice to say,  it's not even a marked improvement over the Phaeston, a weapon which is (A) an Uncommon and ( weighs a lot less. And, as described, the Phaeston, which is dramatically  out-performed by the Tempest and Locust, isn't even a terribly good weapon for what it is.

That said:  There are a number of problems with your viewpoint, but I'll sum them up in bullet point form here.


1. Rarity does not equal power.

In this metagame, we have a number of uncommons that are, simply put, good. The Mattock is one of the best "early" rifles and is Gold-Viable. The Tempest is also Gold-Viable, as is the Locust. We also have an inordinate number of rares that are, likewise, simply put, trash. The Geth Pulse Rifle is non-starter on non-Geth, being reliably beaten at its own game by the Locust and even the Tempest. We even have some garbage Ultra Rares, with the Collector SMG being arguably one of the worst SMGs in the entire metagame. Rarity does not equal power, if it did my Paladin X would be the only pistol I ever use when I currently lament its existence for having the audacity of not being the Talon.

When's the last time you've seen someone use the Disciple?



2. Gold is where the Metagame is.

Putting it simply, every major veteran player (and a huge number of newbies) plays gold and platinum, because this is where the actual challenge is and the actual credits are. If you are putting out weapons specifically geared towards Bronze, then you're not setting up the weapons for the playerbase itself - you're setting it up for an area where the weapon literally can't be used outside of that difficulty without becoming a liability. Want to see where that leads? Take a gander at the number of players who use the Disciple compared to the Claymore, discounting challenges. If you make weapons designed specifically for Bronze and Silver, you're making weapons designed to not be used by players.

Do you know why the Avenger still sees use on Gold and higher, despite low power? Because it weighs virtually nothing, making it a good backup weapon that even a caster can cram on in addition to something else (also for challenge vets). Know why the Mattock is used well into Gold, whilst the Geth Pulse Rifle's a non-starter except on Geth? Because the Mattock can pull its weight there, whilst the Pulse Rifle generally can't. The weapons should be balanced around the Gold Metagame, because that is what most players focus on. That is simple logistics.


3. Variety is the Spice of Mass Effect.

Weapon variety is a key component of Mass Effect. That none of the weapons really handle alike (except the rapid-fire ARs, but we'll get to that) is a major advantage of the game, and frankly, each of them should have a use on the battlefield. The Argus hits like a dump-truck full of Anvils at long range if you can control it, the Incisor shoots three-round bursts as a sniper, the Scorpion shoots proxy mines. The thing is, each of these options should carry their advantage into Gold, or there's no point in giving us these choices.

I have never seen a match in which a player, with every scrap of sincerity, cried out "Oh, man, the Scimitar would have been the BOMB right now!!" Nor will I ever. This is because it wasn't a very good gun before Earth hit, and it just slid into the dustbin after the Piranha showed up and took its lunch money.

The irony is, this isn't even that hard. It's mostly a manner of tweaking available values. Sure, it'd probably take work and fine-tuning, but really.... Wouldn't you like to see more rifles used than just he Ultra-Rares? Wouldn't you like to see someone genuinely take the Disciple as anything but a stopgap weapon or for the challenge? Wouldn't you like to see players pick up and fire off things like the Geth SMG without them suffering critical existence failure the second you bring them beyond Bronze?


I know I sure would.

Modifié par JaimasOfRaxis, 05 février 2013 - 06:33 .

[Bryan Johnson]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

Bryan Johnson wrote...
You are strickly speaking in terms of balance and although some guns (I agree) are under powered, they do not have to be gold viable (the usual metric people use). To be fair the majority of players do not even play gold, so those weapons might be perfectly acceptable on the lower (more popular difficulties). For example strictly speaking I (personally) think the Hornet is horribly under powered, yet I know people that can make that gun sing. Yet I think of that list the Striker and CAR are quite good guns on gold.

For your information, yes, the Striker is amazing, and it coincides nicely with multiple classes and builds. Human and BF3 Soldier, Destroyer, any Turian class, the list goes on. The CAR, meanwhile, is not; it's underpowered and inefficient, and as someone who's had one since launch day and have labbed the hell out of it, I feel accurate in listing off that opinion. I've been over this in the other thread as well, but suffice to say,  it's not even a marked improvement over the Phaeston, a weapon which is (A) an Uncommon and ( weighs a lot less. And, as described, the Phaeston, which is dramatically  out-performed by the Tempest and Locust, isn't even a terribly good weapon for what it is.

That said:  There are a number of problems with your viewpoint, but I'll sum them up in bullet point form here.


1. Rarity does not equal power.

In this metagame, we have a number of uncommons that are, simply put, good. The Mattock is one of the best "early" rifles and is Gold-Viable. The Tempest is also Gold-Viable, as is the Locust. We also have an inordinate number of rares that are, likewise, simply put, trash. The Geth Pulse Rifle is non-starter on non-Geth, being reliably beaten at its own game by the Locust and even the Tempest. We even have some garbage Ultra Rares, with the Collector SMG being arguably one of the worst SMGs in the entire metagame. Rarity does not equal power, if it did my Paladin X would be the only pistol I ever use when I currently lament its existence for having the audacity of not being the Talon.

When's the last time you've seen someone use the Disciple?



2. Gold is where the Metagame is.

Putting it simply, every major veteran player (and a huge number of newbies) plays gold and platinum, because this is where the actual challenge is and the actual credits are. If you are putting out weapons specifically geared towards Bronze, then you're not setting up the weapons for the playerbase itself - you're setting it up for an area where the weapon literally can't be used outside of that difficulty without becoming a liability. Want to see where that leads? Take a gander at the number of players who use the Disciple compared to the Claymore, discounting challenges. If you make weapons designed specifically for Bronze and Silver, you're making weapons designed to not be used by players.

Do you know why the Avenger still sees use on Gold and higher, despite low power? Because it weighs virtually nothing, making it a good backup weapon that even a caster can cram on in addition to something else (also for challenge vets). Know why the Mattock is used well into Gold, whilst the Geth Pulse Rifle's a non-starter except on Geth? Because the Mattock can pull its weight there, whilst the Pulse Rifle generally can't. The weapons should be balanced around the Gold Metagame, because that is what most players focus on. That is simple logistics.


3. Variety is the Spice of Mass Effect.

Weapon variety is a key component of Mass Effect. That none of the weapons really handle alike (except the rapid-fire ARs, but we'll get to that) is a major advantage of the game, and frankly, each of them should have a use on the battlefield. The Argus hits like a dump-truck full of Anvils at long range if you can control it, the Incisor shoots three-round bursts as a sniper, the Scorpion shoots proxy mines. The thing is, each of these options should have their own specific use, or there's no point in giving us these choices.

I have never seen a match (nor will I ever), in which a player, with every scrap of sincerity, cried out "Oh, man, the Scimitar would have been the BOMB right now!!" Nor will I ever. This is because it wasn't a very good gun before Earth hit, and it just slid into the dustbin after the Piranha showed up and took its lunch money.

The irony is, this isn't even that hard. It's mostly a manner of tweaking available values. Sure, it'd probably take work and fine-tuning, but really.... Wouldn't you like to see more rifles used than just he Ultra-Rares? Wouldn't you like to see someone genuinely take the Disciple as anything but a stopgap weapon or for the challenge? Wouldn't you like to see players pick up and fire off things like the Geth SMG without them suffering critical existence failure the second you bring them beyond Bronze?


I know I sure would.

1. You are correct rarirty does not equate power, you could easily think of rarity as a lore kind of factor and have that definition completely valid. Also to answer your question, I have used the disciple and CAR (on live stream infact) and done quite well with them. 

2. What if I told you over 75% of matches are still on silver or bronze? What you define as a challenge, what veterans define as a challenge, and what new players define as a challenge could easily be vastly different things. Furthermore a game does not simply revolve around challenge, there are other factors that come into designing games. A gun does not have to be defined by a singular difficulty to make it a unique experience. 

3. Once again you are correct that variety is the spice, but you approach it from an angle of someone who has everything unlocked. I am certain if you saw of the weapon usage stats you would be surprised. 

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

1. You are correct rarirty does not equate power, you could easily think of rarity as a lore kind of factor and have that definition completely valid. Also to answer your question, I have used the disciple and CAR (on live stream infact) and done quite well with them. 

2. What if I told you over 75% of matches are still on silver or bronze? What you define as a challenge, what veterans define as a challenge, and what new players define as a challenge could easily be vastly different things. Furthermore a game does not simply revolve around challenge, there are other factors that come into designing games. A gun does not have to be defined by a singular difficulty to make it a unique experience. 

3. Once again you are correct that variety is the spice, but you approach it from an angle of someone who has everything unlocked. I am certain if you saw of the weapon usage stats you would be surprised. 

I would, except for one little typo on that. I remember only too-clearly my formative days, when we were fighting on Silver and Bronze to so much as get something worth using and improve the flow of not-garbage. And mind you, this was in the days of endless class cards you can't use. For my early career, my weapon of choice was the Collector Rifle; this persisted until I got my first quality Ultra-Rare: The Sabre (which as of yesterday, is Level X). I did not immediately go after commons and uncommons.  After that, most of the rest of my armament rusted from disuse until around the time I started getting the better rares, such as the Graal, Carnifex, and Striker. The second that I got a Plasma Shotgun, I started Golding it up, and that was pretty much the end of Silver and Bronze.

A lot of players do Bronze and Silver, but there's a reason for that: Not everyone playing this game got it on day one, and not everyone is dedicated to playing this game relentlessly like us old guards on BSN have a tendency to do. We just got a massive influx of new players courtesy of the Wii version, and the casual crowd makes up a sizable shred of the playerbase. Additionally, Gold can be a horribly unfun slog in the current metagame for the unprepared: You can immediately run into Geth Stunlock or Collector "Lol we're all possessed" in short order, which, paired with the large number and frequent issues involved with synckill units, fosters them saying "screw this" and keeping at lower difficulties, where these annoyances are minimized. That said, Gold should still be the standard, for the exact reasons I mentioned: If other weapons scale better, are more efficient, and flat out better outside of Bronze, than how the hell are they to compare inside it?

Mark my words, however:  the second the younger players get a high-quality gun they can make use of, their other weapons will fall into disuse. I can guarantee most players who get a Piranha never use a sizable chunk of the shotgun family ever again. I know this because I lived it, and I've seen it countless times from other players. Getting a Piranha spelled the end for Disciple/Scimitar/Etc use for many players I know.

Modifié par JaimasOfRaxis, 05 février 2013 - 07:01 .

[tfoltz]

I would be happy if the game didn't get worse and worse to play on the PS3.

[Bryan Johnson]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

Bryan Johnson wrote...

1. You are correct rarirty does not equate power, you could easily think of rarity as a lore kind of factor and have that definition completely valid. Also to answer your question, I have used the disciple and CAR (on live stream infact) and done quite well with them. 

2. What if I told you over 75% of matches are still on silver or bronze? What you define as a challenge, what veterans define as a challenge, and what new players define as a challenge could easily be vastly different things. Furthermore a game does not simply revolve around challenge, there are other factors that come into designing games. A gun does not have to be defined by a singular difficulty to make it a unique experience. 

3. Once again you are correct that variety is the spice, but you approach it from an angle of someone who has everything unlocked. I am certain if you saw of the weapon usage stats you would be surprised. 

I would, except for one little typo on that. I remember only too-clearly my formative days, when we were fighting on Silver and Bronze to so much as get something worth using and improve the flow of not-garbage. And mind you, this was in the days of endless class cards you can't use. For my early career, my weapon of choice was the Collector Rifle; this persisted until I got my first quality Ultra-Rare: The Sabre (which as of yesterday, is Level X). After that, most of the rest of my armament rusted from disuse until around the time I started getting the better rares, such as the Graal, Carnifex, and Striker. The second that I got a high-level Plasma Shotgun, I started Golding it up, and that was pretty much the end of Silver and Bronze.

A lot of players do Bronze and Silver, but there's a reason for that: Not everyone playing this game got it on day one, and not everyone is dedicated to playing this game relentlessly like us old guards on BSN have a tendency to do. We just got a massive influx of new players courtesy of the Wii version, and the casual crowd makes up a sizable shred of the playerbase. Additionally, Gold can be a horribly unfun slog in the current metagame for the unprepared: You can immediately run into Geth Stunlock or Collector "Lol we're all possessed" in short order, which, paired with the large number and frequent issues involved with synckill units, fosters them saying "screw this" and keeping at lower difficulties, where these annoyances are minimized.

Mark my words, however:  the second the younger players get a high-quality gun they can make use of, their other weapons will fall into disuse. I can guarantee most players who get a Piranha never use a sizable chunk of the shotgun family ever again. I know this because I lived it, and I've seen it countless times from other players.

I am unsure how the omision of having the CAR helps your case (I do think you for your honesty) but the fact that you used it and had fun with it does this not kind of show that power isn't everything kind of arguement is a valid one?

When I quoted you that stat that wasn't including WiiU, every single platform displays this stat and has been fairly consistent in the last 6 months. 

You are certainly correct that players might have guns fall by the wayside over time, but you can't use that as an arguement because if every game was approximately on par people would stay with their crutch the entire time. 

[Cyonan]

I gotta admit I'm a bit surprised that over 75% of people are playing Bronze/Silver. I honestly expected that number to be a bit lower(though I had guessed Silver as being the most played difficulty).

I can only speak from my own experience of pugging Gold(which is how I play ME3 the majority of the time), but I see a lot more variety these days than I did back when I was still gearing up. Back at launch it was all Phalanx or Carnifex on an AA with the occasional Widow on a SI. After reload cancelling was discovered, we all shifted to Claymore Infiltrators and stayed there for a while.

These days though? I can't name a single gun that I see over and over in pugs. I see people complain about everybody using Harriers and Reegars but I rarely see those. The last Reegar I saw was me using it about a month ago, and I see far more Harriers when I do premades than when I run pugs.

I can't even recall the last time I saw a Piranha it was so long ago.

I am the type of player that will do the theorycrafting, and then ignore it and experiment. I take something that is widely considered "bad" and attempt to find a use for it(my most recent experiments include Explosive Rounds).

Maybe it's just because I use consumables pretty much all the time, but I have only found one gun that made me feel like my weapon was just ineffective: the Avenger(and to be clear, I was using it primarily as an ammo power delivery system).

[SeijiTataki]

@Cyonan;

The problem with this metric - that is, the one about seeing a wide variety of weapons use in gold - is that you don't know if people are using a variety of weapons because they wish to challenge themselves or if they genuinely like the weapon, or if they are trudging through a weapon they don't like because they're chasing after points for a banner.

Now, I don't doubt that there's certainly people out there who forgo the mentality of "X is best", and choose to use Y because they like it, or feel it's better to their play style. But the banner system has sort of invalidated any sort of approximation by first look of how or why people are playing in terms of balance. (Which does in of itself require more investigation and testing than it might normally have prior of seeing if a weapon needed a buff or not)

[3XT3RM1N4TUS]

Too bad BioWare do not allow us to mod multiplayer. I am sure there would be some community rebalance patches ( At least I could do one)

[Cyonan]

SeijiTataki wrote...

@Cyonan;

The problem with this metric - that is, the one about seeing a wide variety of weapons use in gold - is that you don't know if people are using a variety of weapons because they wish to challenge themselves or if they genuinely like the weapon, or if they are trudging through a weapon they don't like because they're chasing after points for a banner.

Now, I don't doubt that there's certainly people out there who forgo the mentality of "X is best", and choose to use Y because they like it, or feel it's better to their play style. But the banner system has sort of invalidated any sort of approximation by first look of how or why people are playing in terms of balance. (Which does in of itself require more investigation and testing than it might normally have prior of seeing if a weapon needed a buff or not)

I'll never know their reasons for using that weapon unless I specifically ask each and every one of them. BioWare will not know, either. Attempting to concern ourselves with why people are using a variety of guns it not really all that useful since it's not something that is really feasible to find out.

It's often been mentioned around here that the point of balance in a PvE game is to encourage more variety which leads to more replayability which of course leads to a longer lifespan.

I do not believe that a co-op PvE game needs incredibly tight balance, and have said many times that I think it needs just enough balance to the point where people can use the guns they like and have a solid variety without hurting their performance a great deal.

Whatever their individual reasons are, the variety of guns and kits being used has increased from where I'm sitting.

[Uchimura]

3XT3RM1N4TUS wrote...

Too bad BioWare do not allow us to mod multiplayer. I am sure there would be some community rebalance patches ( At least I could do one)

Oh, the shouting matches that would be had.

[Shadohz]

Cyonan wrote...

I gotta admit I'm a bit surprised that over 75% of people are playing Bronze/Silver. I honestly expected that number to be a bit lower(though I had guessed Silver as being the most played difficulty).

I can only speak from my own experience of pugging Gold(which is how I play ME3 the majority of the time), but I see a lot more variety these days than I did back when I was still gearing up. Back at launch it was all Phalanx or Carnifex on an AA with the occasional Widow on a SI. After reload cancelling was discovered, we all shifted to Claymore Infiltrators and stayed there for a while.

These days though? I can't name a single gun that I see over and over in pugs. I see people complain about everybody using Harriers and Reegars but I rarely see those. The last Reegar I saw was me using it about a month ago, and I see far more Harriers when I do premades than when I run pugs.

I can't even recall the last time I saw a Piranha it was so long ago.

I am the type of player that will do the theorycrafting, and then ignore it and experiment. I take something that is widely considered "bad" and attempt to find a use for it(my most recent experiments include Explosive Rounds).

Maybe it's just because I use consumables pretty much all the time, but I have only found one gun that made me feel like my weapon was just ineffective: the Avenger(and to be clear, I was using it primarily as an ammo power delivery system).

Considering the anti-farm maps changes and the Challenge release over the summer, it shouldn't be surprising that the numbers are askewed to Bronze/Silver. They will most likely shift back to Silver/Gold as more players complete their challenge masteries (Map Mastery specifically lol).

[Bryan Johnson]

Shadohz wrote...
They will most likely shift back to Silver/Gold as more players complete their challenge masteries (Map Mastery specifically lol).

For that statement to be true they would have needed to be the majority to begin with, and silver/gold has never been more popular than bronze/silver

[Mightyg]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

1. You are correct rarirty does not equate power, you could easily think of rarity as a lore kind of factor and have that definition completely valid. Also to answer your question, I have used the disciple and CAR (on live stream infact) and done quite well with them. 

2. What if I told you over 75% of matches are still on silver or bronze? What you define as a challenge, what veterans define as a challenge, and what new players define as a challenge could easily be vastly different things. Furthermore a game does not simply revolve around challenge, there are other factors that come into designing games. A gun does not have to be defined by a singular difficulty to make it a unique experience. 

3. Once again you are correct that variety is the spice, but you approach it from an angle of someone who has everything unlocked. I am certain if you saw of the weapon usage stats you would be surprised. 

Wouldn't the weapon usage stats be skewed simply by what people have available to them (among other things.) ? I still think the difference in power of a common gun to an ultra rare gun shouldn't be so painfully obvious. I also think you could get more people playing gold if they didn't feel that their weapon was spraying pebbles at that praetorian flying right at them.

on a side note, I play on ps3 with a buddy of mine and I'm having great difficulty capping the base uncommon weapon mods. would it be possible to put them along with the uncommon gear in veteran packs? I think if you're looking to improve the experience for new players, that would be a good start.

Modifié par Mightyg, 05 février 2013 - 08:25 .

[Jarno Mikkola]

Cyonan wrote...
I can't even recall the last time I saw a Piranha it was so long ago.

I am the type of player that will do the theorycrafting, and then ignore it and experiment. I take something that is widely considered "bad" and attempt to find a use for it(my most recent experiments include Explosive Rounds).

I have seen a few Piranha's on the Destroyer, but that's about it on Gold games.
And indeed the enhancement usage is there for the Gold matches.
So how did the Explosive Rounds thing go ?
I have myself used them a bit on Gold and I would say that they work pretty good on the Acolyte (X), as even the ERI's can take a few bars off a Titans armor bar(theory being that it works similar like the Reegar's fire ammo  ). Of course the planed change to the weapons firing makes that unusable.

Ouh, and Brian is a cool guy for his replyes.

[Bryan Johnson]

Pretty sure that uncommon weapon mods are in veteran packs ill take a look in the morning. Also the vast majority of things are easier now then they were at launch, the amount of buffs far outweigh the nerfs. Off the top of my head falcon, sabotage, pet "decoys" are the only thing that got needed from base game. But something like gear brought in another thing which made it easier for players.

I know what new players experience I just started up on a fresh account on the ps3 this weekend.

[Mightyg]

They're definitely not prioritized over consumables in veteran packs. Adding the uncommon gear would also really be helpful i think.

Adding in another tier of basic stuff prioritized to the spectre pack might be a good idea too. Like a set of gold weapons that'll get to x first so you have some basic weapons covered in each type.

Modifié par Mightyg, 05 février 2013 - 08:38 .

[Bryan Johnson]

Mightyg wrote...

They're definitely not prioritized over consumables in veteran packs. Adding the uncommon gear would also really be helpful i think.

Priortized and present are two different issues. I am going to take it to mean you do not feel the mod drop rate is high enough?

[Mightyg]

Well, when you get a veteran pack, you're going to get your phaeston tempest etc up to x before uncommon consumables start taking their place in the "guaranteed" slots. At least that's how it seems to some extent.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Shadohz wrote...
They will most likely shift back to Silver/Gold as more players complete their challenge masteries (Map Mastery specifically lol).

For that statement to be true they would have needed to be the majority to begin with, and silver/gold has never been more popular than bronze/silver

Erhm, needing to complete every but two gold maps kinda(including the hazard) put's the whole thing into perspective ... as you can't really go without playing the Gold maps to gain the archivement, and you gain the bronze and silver waves while you do the gold ones.

Mightyg wrote...
They're definitely not prioritized over consumables in veteran packs. Adding the uncommon gear would also really be helpful i think.

To a certain extent they are... as in you get the level I uncommon Gear's far more likely than a consumable to a set number of occurances, then you start to get the consumables and a few unrares until you gain the uncommon gear very rarelly. Happened to me, went to use the Premium Specter Packs early actually and got them before I got all the character Rares. Now only the Ultra Rares weapons left... which have the same exact pattern. On a ~2 mil dry spell currently... nothing to complain about would be the standard reply.

Modifié par Jarno Mikkola, 05 février 2013 - 08:44 .

[Megakoresh]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Shadohz wrote...
They will most likely shift back to Silver/Gold as more players complete their challenge masteries (Map Mastery specifically lol).

For that statement to be true they would have needed to be the majority to begin with, and silver/gold has never been more popular than bronze/silver

And those issues that OP discusses (which are very much correct, like 100% correct) are mostly gamebreaking at higher difficulties. So following on comments with resources and productive efficiency you essentially do not prioritize issues that do not affect majority of the players in a major way.

To that end I have to ask: how much, if at all, are you interested in your game's longevity? Because vast majority of those issues affect exactly that.

I am an endgame player. I play only on Gold and occasionally Platinum. I have less than half the guns, YOUR designers spent time and effort creating and you making sure it works right, that are usable. I can play 2 factions out of 4, because the other 2 are flat out not fun. I am not even talking about controls of this game on PC, dying because you inexplicably decided to take cover is one of the most frustrating things that can happen.

All that results in the fact that I am no longer interested in playing. At least until DLC comes out, and even then with all of the above it will not hold my interested for long either. But I am at endgame so this pretty much means I won't spend any real money on the game. Not that would do such a stupid thing in a Triple-A title anyway, but in this scenario I doubt anyone would actually do it. So it comes down to how you treat your game:

• Your artisitc creation that you want to be successful and people to enjoy as much as possible.
• Your product, which you care ONLY in terms of profit. (your Rich text editor is broken too, by the way)

So which one is it? It can't be both. Not with this many issues. And I am asking how you feel, people in the studio treat the game in general, not just your opinion. I seriously doubt that increasing some stats on underpowered guns actually takes a ton of testing and development time, and those balance changes are one of the primary game-breaking issues discussed here.

I remember when CDPR was presented with the problems they had with their game, they did not do prioritizations. They have gone and fixed it. All of it. And bear in mind that their problems were not mere bugs in combat. They had a problem with Act 3 being too short. Did they say it was out of scope, that they did not have resources or do not deem it a big enough problem? No they added a ton more hours of gameplay to Act 3 for free. And I am damn sure it cost them way more than fixing all of the above would cost you, and more than Extended Cut cost you as well. At least on PC.

Modifié par Megakoresh, 05 février 2013 - 08:53 .

[Dunvi]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Mightyg wrote...

They're definitely not prioritized over consumables in veteran packs. Adding the uncommon gear would also really be helpful i think.

Priortized and present are two different issues. I am going to take it to mean you do not feel the mod drop rate is high enough?

Yo Bryan Johnson, just wanted to throw a thank you your way for hanging around this thread and communicating with us.

[Mightyg]

we're talking about uncommon items though. I'm sure they've got their reasons for making the ultra rares drop rate not guaranteed. basically when I started over on ps3 I got my veteran packs till I capped the weapons. then when it started giving me ammo over the assault rifle barrel and smg ultralight I moved on to spectre and psp. Take a look at my manifest on ps3 and you'll see that I've got about as many rare mods as I do uncommon. I'm sure I can't be the only one that has progressed like that.

Modifié par Mightyg, 05 février 2013 - 08:54 .

[Bryan Johnson]

@Mega your post is a little hostile, and you have taken what I said completely out of context. I was stating not all guns are necessarily gold viable and some are designed more for a silver setting and that the lower difficulties are more popular. It does not mean that the higher difficulties are neglected in fact they get more attention despite the amount of people. I play this game a lot myself, I do not find the geth overly difficult, nor collectors personally.The long term longevity of this game you say, well ask a year ago most people here how long they expected multiplayer to be going, I think you find virtually no one that would say a year.

There are also people who believe that the collectors are the most balanced faction in the game.