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[Fast Jimmy]

I was going to post this in another thread before it got locked and it seemed like a waste not to put somewhere, so here you go. 

The BSN is not a cesspit. 

It's full of negativity, sure. Less so than directly after DA2 and (especially) ME3. But if people feel negative about a product, that's not an inherently bad thing. Many places on the Internet are full of negative people. It's the nature of the Internet. 

So, has the BSN become more negative that previously? Without a doubt. Are many of the people here still angry, confused and/or hurt that things turned out the way they did? I would say that is obvious. But is the BSN a vile place, where the worst people in the Internet gather just to fester and hate? No, I contest it is not. Not the BSN I know. 

The BSN I know has fans who have a passion for gaming that endures, despite disappointment and despair. 

The BSN I know has people who are friends who are fiercely loyal to each other and are there to help and offer support in times of need. 

The BSN I know has fans from all facets of gaming, from the spreadsheet masters who perfect DW rogue Assassin/Bard builds for absolute maximum damage, to the newbie who had never picked up an RPG title but loves the story, characters and choices, to the role-playing connoisseur that seeks to invent new motives, backgrounds and options for their characters. 

The BSN I know does not give privilege or scorn to someone based on their sign up date or the number of posts they have, but by the content of their ideas and the passion of their belief. 

The BSN I know is made up of veterans like Realmzmaster and new blood like Entropic Angel. It's full of people who are passionate believers in character content like Renmiri and those who are focused on the control our own character to the finest detail like Sylvius the Mad. We have people who believe in Bioware's direction wholeheartedly like Plantiff and those who question it every step of the way like bEVEthesda. We have those with scathing, sharp sit like TheAngryOne and we have those who are a gentle balm with their attitudes like Jillabender. 


The BSN I know is not toxic. The BSN I know is terrific. 

EDIT: Took out rant-ish comments in the middle of the post that really weren't relevant to what I was trying to say.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 04 février 2013 - 04:24 .

[Allan Schumacher]

It's the nature of the Internet.

Herein lies the tragedy. Anonymity is a powerful thing, and it's easy to be belligerent if it doesn't come back to haunt you.

I can still be aggressive in internet posts as well, but it's getting easier and easier for me to just bow out of threads that have discussions that I find are becoming to hostile (I'm speaking universally, rather than BSN specifically).

The biggest bothers for me are the complete lack of respect for differing opinions. I think, sadly, that when someone that dislikes a particular product encounters someone that likes a particular product, that person feels threatened because the idea that someone else likes that product gives that product a degree of validation. In the world of scarce resources, that creates a sense of competition for the things that they want.


I tend to hang around RPG focused places of discussion, though I'm hardly an RPG exclusive gamer. I often see lamentations about the sequelitis that publishers have, with more and more sports games and more call of duties and so forth. However, despite this I always see cries for BG3, PST2. It's not so much that people dislike sequels (there's a degree of familiarity in most cases). They just want sequels of the games they like.


But I have long since given up on console wars. Console vs. PC and so forth. I'll occasionally get involved if someone is just being ignorantly belligerent (regardless of which side they want). I'm a PC gamer, but hold nothing against someone that prefers console games. I often find myself deleting responses I write up because I get the feeling that I'm just "feeding the troll" and the conversation will not be fruitful.


I've been called some pretty hurtful things (though my skin has grown thicker) in my time here. On DAO someone suggested that it would have been advantageous for my mother to have aborted me, lest DAO actually get someone actually qualified to QA. Details of the insult aside (it's just an attempt to create a particular nasty example to properly demonstrate just how angry they are), that that level of hostility does exist is surprising to me.


I see people champion a kickstarter and make it adversarial ("that's money you're not going to get BioWare"), or accept that an internet poll placed EA as the Worst Company in America as being examples of how much of a blight EA is (the creator of luxury goods known as video games) and that me pointing out that it's probably not a representative poll is just me living in denial.

(As an aside, read up on something like this.  I'm reasonably convinced that any person that truly feels that EA is the Worst Company in America has had a pretty fortunate life)


The problem I have with falling back on "it's the nature of the internet" is that, as a person, it tends to leave me with jaded feelings towards the gaming population and causes me to spend less time interacting. I'm not talking as a dev, but as a game player. I am significantly less active on posting on the internet than I was 8 years ago, because "the nature of the internet" isn't very fun for me anymore.

There's two forums I regularly post on: Obsidian and this one. Even Obsidian has had me take several year time outs (I returned because of Project Eternity), and my heyday of BioWare posting was around Knights of the Old Republic. I didn't start posting again until ME3 came out and part of me just kinda felt bad for those that were disappointed and wanted to throw some fans a bone and give them a place to talk and even vent/rant towards. I may not have been on Mass Effect, but I think people still liked talking to someone with the "BioWare" tag.


The other problem is that the negative gets so much exposure, especially when it's super crazy (FTC complaints!?). Fortunately, something like this goes around and it's a bit easier to remind myself that video gaming is still fun and enjoyable for people. I think because of the conflict of someone else liking something you hate, it's easier for the fun stories to get drowned out because people feel they have a vested interest in convincing us/the world/whatever to make the game they want and not the game that the other guy liked.


Anyways I'm rambling and my food is ready.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 06 février 2013 - 02:22 .

[Allan Schumacher]

I wouldn't say that.

I do find hostility breeds hostility on the internet though. Wulfram put it quite well, in my opinion.


Sure it may be the nature of the internet, but that doesn't mean it has to be.

[Allan Schumacher]

How does it work on a place like Something Awful? (although their forum is verrrrrrrrrry different).

Positive (as in constructive) discussion does exist. Even about trying to improve the forum (UNESCO or whatever it was called) so that it's more constructive.

Well, from the way I look at it, if you praise their game, or any of Bioware's titles, it will feel like you have "their" back or Bioware will look the other way, but that's not necessarily the case, it's just that vibe I feel or as Allan put it, that "edge" that some users might believe others have.

Tbh, Bioware needs both the postive and negative and I find that the positive feedback gets overlooked because it boils down to "I like it" and Bioware might think of it in terms of "oh if "x" number of people like, I guess I'll continue doing this type of work", yet it still needs to be specific and detailed enough to resassure Bioware in their future titles and the same goes with criticism, but from what I've seen, criticism tends to be more detailed, especially from certain users. I find criticism is easier to give in detail, especially if one has experience in certain fields of gaming; writing, animation, etc... but that's just me.

I think, especially shortly after release, criticism is more apparent because those that are enjoying the game have little reason to vent. Someone that is frustrated and angry will need some catharsis, while someone that is enjoying the game is (hopefully) sucked into the game. This goes doubly so if people are blocked from playing the game for some sort of technical reason.

[Allan Schumacher]

Also, Allan, do you have to pay to partake in the Something Awful forums? I feel like I remember that from somewhere, could be wrong.

Yup. (Although their unregistered user language filter is hilarious)

It has big text "User was banned for this post" and whatnot.

[Allan Schumacher]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

I have as well, but I was wondering if it would be looked on as okay if I just had a PM already set up with every (active) mod on there that I can just post into without having to check on people's schedules or worry if anyone who is online is going to see it.

I don't think people have a problem reporting posts or posters, but when you are never sure if the person you are talking to is even going to see your message in any sort of reasonable time frame, it can lead to "Well, I'll just take care of it myself" attitudes. Which are the starts of many flame wars.

There are some posters that do this.  They don't message *every* mod but they just have a thread with about 5 or 6 people.

[Allan Schumacher]

No worries.

I don't think it's an old policy, and was part of why John Epler put up those stickies in a variety of threads.

The reporting system is apparently less than awesome. I don't even know where to find them, because I'm not really officially a moderator, I just started posting without really telling anyone.

I'm not always able to read my PMs if I'm just logging on for a quick moment between tasks at work, but that "1 message" does jump out at my OCD.