147 réponses à ce sujet

[Fast Jimmy]

I was going to post this in another thread before it got locked and it seemed like a waste not to put somewhere, so here you go. 

The BSN is not a cesspit. 

It's full of negativity, sure. Less so than directly after DA2 and (especially) ME3. But if people feel negative about a product, that's not an inherently bad thing. Many places on the Internet are full of negative people. It's the nature of the Internet. 

So, has the BSN become more negative that previously? Without a doubt. Are many of the people here still angry, confused and/or hurt that things turned out the way they did? I would say that is obvious. But is the BSN a vile place, where the worst people in the Internet gather just to fester and hate? No, I contest it is not. Not the BSN I know. 

The BSN I know has fans who have a passion for gaming that endures, despite disappointment and despair. 

The BSN I know has people who are friends who are fiercely loyal to each other and are there to help and offer support in times of need. 

The BSN I know has fans from all facets of gaming, from the spreadsheet masters who perfect DW rogue Assassin/Bard builds for absolute maximum damage, to the newbie who had never picked up an RPG title but loves the story, characters and choices, to the role-playing connoisseur that seeks to invent new motives, backgrounds and options for their characters. 

The BSN I know does not give privilege or scorn to someone based on their sign up date or the number of posts they have, but by the content of their ideas and the passion of their belief. 

The BSN I know is made up of veterans like Realmzmaster and new blood like Entropic Angel. It's full of people who are passionate believers in character content like Renmiri and those who are focused on the control our own character to the finest detail like Sylvius the Mad. We have people who believe in Bioware's direction wholeheartedly like Plantiff and those who question it every step of the way like bEVEthesda. We have those with scathing, sharp sit like TheAngryOne and we have those who are a gentle balm with their attitudes like Jillabender. 


The BSN I know is not toxic. The BSN I know is terrific. 

EDIT: Took out rant-ish comments in the middle of the post that really weren't relevant to what I was trying to say.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 04 février 2013 - 04:24 .

[mickey111]

Biowares biggest problem is that they're so easy to predict. Why do Bioware games always have to have some damned proud warrior race/faciton cliche? Why do they always have to have this one "I'm an independent woman who don't need no man and am proud to admit it" type? And that's just two of the most obvious examples.

[Fast Jimmy]

mickey111 wrote...

Biowares biggest problem is that they're so easy to predict. Why do Bioware games always have to have some damned proud warrior race/faciton cliche? Why do they always have to have this one "I'm an independent woman who don't need no man and am proud to admit it" type? And that's just two of the most obvious examples.

I feel like you read my first two sentences and then hit reply.

[ObserverStatus]

You lie, I live by the most contaminated nuclear site in the US, and yet, BSN totally puts the Hanford Site to shame in sheer toxicity.  In fact, it's so toxic my avatar has to wear a gas mask to survive.  This is serious business.

Modifié par bobobo878, 04 février 2013 - 03:54 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

But I like toxic waste.

[Cainhurst Crow]

BSN I know is full of highly pretentious and opinionated people, who have no problem insulting people right off the bat and generalizing anyone they don't agree with. And than at the same time will turn around, chew you out for criticizing them in a way less offensive than what they did, and cry like a petulant child about how much their feelings are hurt.

The BSN, and gamer posters and fanatic fanboi's in general, are in my humble opinion, spoiled, arrogant, nasty, brutish, and weak.

They are a prime example of playing the victim card over and over, and of being disingenuous people. Screw them, screw their passion, and screw their extreme fear to things they don't like or don't have experience with.

Done.

[saMoorai]

I know the BSN is not made of toxic waste. I have been here for years and I have yet to gain superpowers and/or cancer.

[In Exile]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
But the responses (and the lack of preparation to some of the most glaring complaints) to both DA2 and ME3 show that Bioware did not have any idea that some of the choices they made would be received SO BADLY. They had no idea of what they were doing in the eyes of their fanbase.

Well, consider PC VO in DA2. Why would Bioware think that the fanbase would go absolutely balistic over it? Or racial choice, which none of its games in the last two console generations (save DA:O) had as a feature?

And, instead of hedging their bets and trying to prepare people for changes from the original formats, they instead bashed their old product at every opportunity and bragged about the new things with shameless marketing concepts. The exact opposite of how you want to transition a fanbase. And the game was (and still is) lambasted for these changes and with complaints about how Origins did things better.

That's not quite true. Bioware has never done some of the things DA2 was criticized for: a living, persistent world, choices with branching consequences (Bioware games pre-DA2 never even followed-up a choice in-game. 

The BSN I know is not toxic. The BSN I know is terrific. 

The BSN I know constantly tells me I'm wrong for how I play RPGs, that I'm wrong about my tastes, that I'm wrong about what PC VO is, that I'm wrong about what features in Bioware are good features, that I'm wrong about how much choice and reactivity matters in games... 

... it goes on. The BSN isn't as bad as some of its biggest detractors say. But it isn't as respectful and tolerant as you make it. 

[Inquisitor Recon]

[Violation of Rule #6 removed.]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 04 février 2013 - 05:39 .

[spirosz]

You're implying that they didn't know what they were doing pre-release. I truly believe they wanted to head in this direction for DA II and ME3, regardless of what the fan reaction would be. Regardless of certain rushed aspects of both games, I highly doubt the developers would of done certain things differently.

[spirosz]

ReconTeam wrote...

*snip epic*

Rofl. 

[Inquisitor Recon]

It's like a self fulfilling prophecy.

[Fast Jimmy]

spirosz wrote...

You're implying that they didn't know what they were doing pre-release. I truly believe they wanted to head in this direction for DA II and ME3, regardless of what the fan reaction would be. Regardless of certain rushed aspects of both games, I highly doubt the developers would of done certain things differently.

You thought that Bioware knew that player agency was going to be a huge complaint in DA2? Or that teh endings would be called by some as some of the worst narratives in history? 

I think Bioware downplayed in their own minds how fans would feel about certain topics. Maybe they wouldn't have changed anything, but the presence of the EC (which didn't do a whole lot for me, but at least was more or less an admital that they did not do a great job on the orignial endings) and the fact that DA3 is being made, from what we are told, with a lot of the complaints from DA2 in mind leads me to think that Bioware did not anticipate the fan backlash these choices resulted in. 

In fact, I'm just going to gut out the part of my OP that talks about Bioware's game development at all. It really doesn't have anything to do with what I was really trying to say.

[billy the squid]

You've managed to find the kernel of competent discussion and criticism in a sea of asinine, inarticulate factionalism which constitutes many of the forums, but not all.

The character and romance forums are a perfect example. The threads dealing with same sex romances, character conflicts over who's character is best, accusations of sexism, misogyny, labelling posters as privileged to divert  and undermine criticism etc.

Yeah the BSN has the full gamut of nut cases and hypocrites. For every articulate criticism and thread we get 2 which are pure idiocy or consist of nothing more than thinly veiled bias, which I don't deny I scorn and deride without hesitation.

I think the key aspect of the BSN is the need to sift the wheat from the chaff, before engaging in any reasonable discussion.

Modifié par billy the squid, 04 février 2013 - 04:29 .

[spirosz]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I think Bioware downplayed in their own minds how fans would feel about certain topics. Maybe they wouldn't have changed anything, but the presence of the EC (which didn't do a whole lot for me, but at least was more or less an admital that they did not do a great job on the orignial endings) and the fact that DA3 is being made, from what we are told, with a lot of the complaints from DA2 in mind leads me to think that Bioware did not anticipate the fan backlash these choices resulted in. 

In fact, I'm just going to gut out the part of my OP that talks about Bioware's game development at all. It really doesn't have anything to do with what I was really trying to say.

I'd take the whole "DA3 is being made with the complaints from DA2 in mind" with a grain of salt, tbh.  From my viewpoint, the lack of quality of DA II is because of development time, as the same goes with certain aspects of ME3, where I believe certain moments in the game shined brightly and I'll credit them for those moments.  You're right though, the development doesn't really add anything to this, but I agree that this place is not toxic, it's toxic (from a fan's standpoint) if you go looking for it, IMO.  You can easily find very great threads with both sides respecting each other, but who wants to dive into those boring threads, right?  

[Halfdan The Menace]

mickey111 wrote...

Biowares biggest problem is that they're so easy to predict. Why do Bioware games always have to have some damned proud warrior race/faciton cliche? Why do they always have to have this one "I'm an independent woman who don't need no man and am proud to admit it" type? And that's just two of the most obvious examples.

Indeed. Why can't we have some poor homeless tattooed freak cliche? why not some beggar mutants? how about some loser like Peter Parker?

[Clover Rider]

The BSN has me, so it can't be all that bad.

[Jarl Johnnie Walker]

I do my best not to harken to the negativity.
Dwelling on the negative just leads to more of it.
Thus I focus on the positive attributes of BSN.
But I am not unconversant to the sour side.

Each being only holds so much energy. I don't know about any of you, but the energy I sustain will only go towards positive sentiments. Chortles, elation, and gaiety.

BSN is full of the narrow-minded and self righteous, but so is the rest of the world.
Thereupon it is best to repudiate it. Life's too short to let someone be an issue in your life.

Carry on.

Modifié par Johnnie Walker, 04 février 2013 - 06:01 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Ballistic Rebel wrote...

mickey111 wrote...

Biowares biggest problem is that they're so easy to predict. Why do Bioware games always have to have some damned proud warrior race/faciton cliche? Why do they always have to have this one "I'm an independent woman who don't need no man and am proud to admit it" type? And that's just two of the most obvious examples.

Indeed. Why can't we have some poor homeless tattooed freak cliche? why not some beggar mutants? how about some loser like Peter Parker?

What about hawke? Started as a criminal and pretty much broke and only got out of it due to sheer luck and or willingness to trick a demon out of it's treasure.

[Homebound]

the BSN isnt toxic as it is volatile. Everything's pretty nice until somebody gives the place a little shake.

[ObserverStatus]

Homebound wrote...
Everything's pretty nice until somebody gives the place a little shake.

Pretty boring you mean.

[Homebound]

bobobo878 wrote...

Homebound wrote...
Everything's pretty nice until somebody gives the place a little shake.

Pretty boring you mean.

In conclusion, Bioware should sticky the pony thread again.