311 réponses à ce sujet

[GriM_AoD]

I would say no, due to it being situational, and there are times other shotguns that could probably work better on some shotgun builds.
But I only use it as a secondary on some of my Quarian classes. So what would I know?

Maybe it might be on a vanguard with the weapon boost from BC.. I wouldn't know. I've not tried it, nor am I interested in trying it.

[Deerber]

Lolreegar :sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick: :sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick:

Modifié par Deerber, 04 février 2013 - 12:55 .

[Felhand]

Its fine, they should actually return the piranha to factory settings (Pre buff, but pre nerf too....basically ground zero was fine.) As its another good example of a 'easy' gun or noobtube, this argument has been applied to the harrier and the GI as well. That being a easy but not crappy gun will always seem to be OP because you take a easy gun and put it in a veterans hands and well people die horrible deaths quick like.

A good pair of counter arguments are the Talon and Wraith, the talon can be very class specific, anything that boosts accuracy or allows you to get in close will make this little handgun a beast (Talon + marksman accuracy turian soldier = ERMEHGERD) while the wraith is a vicious monster with the new HVB mod combined with a choke barrel, capable of decapitating centurions at medium range and two shotting dragoons (or one shot depending on your setup and a head shot) while still being able to deal nasty damage to boss units with out having to absolutely close into banshee squeel range.

[cronshaw]

The reegar is a stupid weapon
It requires no substantial aiming and kills bosses faster than most other weapons in the game
The "oh you have to get in close range" argument is BS because no one ever uses it on classes that can't take the heat
That being said I really don't care what they do to it

[Apl_Juice]

It needs to do less damage to armor. Like, very little to none at all

[millahnna]

Felhand wrote...

As its another good example of a 'easy' gun or noobtube, this argument has been applied to the harrier and the GI as well. That being a easy but not crappy gun will always seem to be OP because you take a easy gun and put it in a veterans hands and well people die horrible deaths quick like.

Yeah while I have been in favor of some nerfs that have gone down, the "too easy to use" argument never really worked for me.  I don't feel the Harrier is 1) particularly easy to use (for some folks yes but not universally) or 2) all that overpowered really.  Harrier has a bit of a learning curve (I personally suck with the blasted thing though I'm great with my hurricane). 

The reegar though, I see why the argument people come up with is the "ease of use" one.  I've used it exactly once to try out a valkyrie build that folks recommended and it really took no effort at all to just melt the crap out of stuff.  I truly can't bring myself to use the gun again because it felt OP using it (and I'm not awesome at this game most of the time so if I'm melting the crap out of stuff with no effort...).  I say "easy" is the wrong argument as it hints at the symptom but not the true problem. 

[ThatGuyThatPlaysThisGame]

Cyonan wrote...
So is it overpowered?

In the hands of the average player I would say no.

In the hands of the skilled player I would say yes.

This can be said for everything that has been balance changed .... 

[HolyAvenger]

Apl_J wrote...

It needs to do less damage to armor. Like, very little to none at all

This.

[Fortack]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

The Reegar is a very powerful weapon but there are better weapon choices for classes that are not capable of sustained close quarters combat. The Reegar occupies a niche role, it is SUPERB at what it does, but its a weapon that lacks versatility.

Every class is very capable of sustained CQC. In fact, anyone who wan't to do well has to go CQC anyway - it's the most effective way to kill stuff. It's also much easier to kill a closely packed group of enemies than waiting for them to spread out. True, most newbies won't do this simply b/c it doesn't seem to be the most logical thing to do. However, anyone who has the lolreegar at a high level should have enough experience with the game to know these things.

The range argument is also kinda lame b/c you need to get (equally) close with pretty much all shotguns to be effective (unless you use the GI or TSol who can snipe with everything). Unlike what some misinformed people are saying, you will not OHK basic enemies (Centurion, G Rocket Trooper, Marauder, C Captain etc) with the Claymore (or Wraith, Talon, Raider, etc) beyond lolreegar-range unless you shoot them in the head and even that doesn't guarantee a OHK beyond lolreegar-range.

Even inside lolreegar-range the Claymore (and other shotguns) still require(s) a headshot to OHK those enemies. When you are moving, and your target is moving, headshots are not as easy as some people suggest. The lolreegar cannot miss at that range and it melts anything nearby too.

The lolreegar melts bosses like they are husks. It makes all other shotguns look like garbage in comparison and you don't need to aim for the head either. It also is very forgiving b/c everything is death without the need to properly aim whilst missing a shot with the other shotguns means you are in trouble. Plus the lolreegar is also one of the lightest shotguns around.

To round things up: The lolreegar does everything better compared to all other shotguns / close range weapons without any skill- / aiming requirement. If that isn't OP I don't know what is. Sure, the Harrier can kill stuff at longer range (yet it does require proper aiming) but you can equip the Harrier and the lolreegar and have roughly the same cooldown as rolling the Claymore only.

[Grunt_Platform]

Can't say for sure if it's OP on its own, but a bit of rebalancing probably wouldn't hurt it.

The proximity weakness isn't much when combined with incendiary glitches, but without that it is enough to put you in danger from anything it doesn't kill instantly. Plus, it blows through and wastes its clip so easily there's plenty of room for anything that you don't kill to make you pay for the reload—not that a smart player will have this problem too often.

It matters, just... not a whole lot.

Modifié par EvanKester, 04 février 2013 - 01:52 .

[Zjarcal]

I only have one question....

WHERE IS ANNOMANDER?

Anyway, I agree with the OP about the lolreegar not being OP in the sense of there being better options for skilled players and how certain setups work much better with other weapons (I never use it because I don't like it and I know I will do better with other stuff), but at the same time, the damn thing takes so little skill to use and rewards it so disproportionately high, that it just feels meh. If at least the armor penalty actually applied to ammo damage too (or if the penalty was higher), and the lolreegar actually sucked against armor even with full consumables, maybe that could make it balanced.

The thing about it isn't that it's as broken as the old Krysae was (there's a reason that one was nerfed and the lolreegar hasn't been, other than a small weight increase), it's that it's ridiculously cheesy, boring to use, and a very bad application of the "high risk, high reward" concept, because in reality it's a "low risk, EXTREME reward" weapon.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 04 février 2013 - 02:58 .

[lightswitch]

Zjarcal wrote...

I only have one question....

WHERE IS ANNOMANDER?

QFT

TheKillerAngel wrote...

2. The Reegar is a very powerful weapon but there are better weapon choices for classes that are not capable of sustained close quarters combat. The Reegar occupies a niche role, it is SUPERB at what it does, but its a weapon that lacks versatility.

Which kits aren't capable of sustained close quarters combat?

Also, I wouldn't call any combat involving a Reegar 'sustained'. It's generally over absurdly quickly.

Modifié par lightswitch, 04 février 2013 - 07:36 .

[ShinTheZero]

Zjarcal wrote...

I only have one question....

WHERE IS ANNOMANDER?

Anyway, I agree with the OP about the lolreegar not being OP in the sense of there being better options for skilled players and how certain setups work much better with other weapons (I never use it because I don't like it and I know I will do better with other stuff), but at the same time, the damn thing takes so little skill to use and rewards it so disproportionately high, that it just feels meh. If at least the armor penalty actually applied to ammo damage too (or if the penalty was higher), and the lolreegar actually sucked against armor even with full consumables, maybe that could make it balanced.

The thing about it isn't that it's as broken as the old Krysae was (there's a reason that one was nerfed and the lolreegar hasn't been, other than a small weight increase), it's that it's ridiculously cheesy, boring to use, and a very bad application of the "high risk, high reward" concept, because in reality it's a "low risk, EXTREME reward" weapon.

I heard, somebody tried to challenge Trollvik. Now guess what was thrown out of the airlock

I agree with KillerAngel. If the Reegar is OP, then there are plenty others. And the Reegar is for me a gun that I cannot handle well because I prefer everything in distance (Tali would critize me though).

Though I wonder what will happen with the Adas Synthetic Rifle when it is implemented in the game. The Reegar is not OP, but what will people say about this bad-Boy.

Modifié par ShinTheZero, 04 février 2013 - 03:14 .

[Tonymac]

SgtPepper667 wrote...

I personally don't think so because of how close you have to be to use it. Especially if you're in a large group of enemies. Things can get messy fast.

^

[TheKillerAngel]

lightswitch wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

I only have one question....

WHERE IS ANNOMANDER?

QFT

TheKillerAngel wrote...

2. The Reegar is a very powerful weapon but there are better weapon choices for classes that are not capable of sustained close quarters combat. The Reegar occupies a niche role, it is SUPERB at what it does, but its a weapon that lacks versatility.

Which kits aren't capable of sustained close quarters combat?

Also, I wouldn't call any combat involving a Reegar 'sustained'. It's generally over absurdly quickly.

Every kit is "capable" of close quarters combat but that doesn't mean they are optimally played that way. Most engineers, adepts, and some sentinels are mid-range combatants. They will be better played by killing enemies with a combination of powers and weapons fired at distances past the Reegar's effective range. You can slap a Reegar on them, and they will kill things, but it will expose you to unnecessary risk for not much better performance.

In the context of the Reegar, close quarters combat is near-melee range. The classes that genereally do best with the Reegar are ones that have viable melee-centric builds.

modok8 wrote...

The reegar is a stupid weapon 
It requires no substantial aiming and kills bosses faster than most other weapons in the game
The "oh you have to get in close range" argument is BS because no one ever uses it on classes that can't take the heat
That being said I really don't care what they do to it

That is exactly why I don't consider it overpowered. It has limited applications and because it's only optimal on some classes, it doesn't "break" the shotgun metagame. It's powerful and easy to use but these factors in themselves don't make a weapon overpowered. You have to measure something's "OP'ness" by its destabilizing effect on the metagame.

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 04 février 2013 - 03:20 .

[FataliTensei]

On paper i might look so but in practice you have to be fairly skilled to use it effectively (not die).

[Fortack]

FataliTensei wrote...

On paper i might look so but in practice you have to be fairly skilled to use it effectively (not die).

Are there other short range weapons that don't require the same level of skill?

TheKillerAngel wrote...

That is exactly why I don't consider it overpowered. It has limited applications and because it's only optimal on some classes, it doesn't "break" the shotgun metagame. It's powerful and easy to use but these factors in themselves don't make a weapon overpowered. You have to measure something's "OP'ness" by its destabilizing effect on the metagame.

What applications are you referring to? You can't be serious saying that to use the Talon, Claymore, Wraith, Raider, Piranha effectively you don't have to get within lolreegar-range. If you try to snipe with any of those weapons you're probably better off using the Avenger or something.

[BridgeBurner]

Zjarcal wrote...

I only have one question....

WHERE IS ANNOMANDER?

My answer:

Deerber wrote...

Lolreegar

Modifié par Annomander, 04 février 2013 - 06:40 .

[Cyonan]

Annomander wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

I only have one question....

WHERE IS ANNOMANDER?

My answer:

Deerber wrote...

Lolreegar

Is there anything you don't find overpowered in this game? =P

[ShinTheZero]

Fortack wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

On paper i might look so but in practice you have to be fairly skilled to use it effectively (not die).

Are there other short range weapons that don't require the same level of skill?

TheKillerAngel wrote...

That is exactly why I don't consider it overpowered. It has limited applications and because it's only optimal on some classes, it doesn't "break" the shotgun metagame. It's powerful and easy to use but these factors in themselves don't make a weapon overpowered. You have to measure something's "OP'ness" by its destabilizing effect on the metagame.

What applications are you referring to? You can't be serious saying that to use the Talon, Claymore, Wraith, Raider, Piranha effectively you don't have to get within lolreegar-range. If you try to snipe with any of those weapons you're probably better off using the Avenger or something.

Talon, Claymore and Wraith are looking at you very strangely. Also, a Krogan defying the Claymore? Shame on you.

Also, you know that the N7 Piranha outdamages the Reegar in CQC and Close range?

[TheKillerAngel]

Fortack wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

On paper i might look so but in practice you have to be fairly skilled to use it effectively (not die).

Are there other short range weapons that don't require the same level of skill?

TheKillerAngel wrote...

That is exactly why I don't consider it overpowered. It has limited applications and because it's only optimal on some classes, it doesn't "break" the shotgun metagame. It's powerful and easy to use but these factors in themselves don't make a weapon overpowered. You have to measure something's "OP'ness" by its destabilizing effect on the metagame.

What applications are you referring to? You can't be serious saying that to use the Talon, Claymore, Wraith, Raider, Piranha effectively you don't have to get within lolreegar-range. If you try to snipe with any of those weapons you're probably better off using the Avenger or something.

The Reegar's effective range is like <7 meters - practically melee range. I am not trying to say you can snipe with shotguns on all classes. I clearly delinate three modes of combat - close quarters, midrange, and long range. For the other weapons you mentioned, I'll give you their effective ranges, on average, based on my experience:

Talon - Close to mid range. <15m
Claymore - Close to long range <25m
Wraith - Close to long range <25m
Raider - Close to mid range. <15m
Piranha  - Close to mid range <15m

One of the big things you're forgetting is that the above mentioned hitscan weapons do not have to connect all their pellets or even 1 hit kill something to be effective. I can shoot a target 20 meters away with my Claymore drellguard, charge it/grenade it, and detonate an explosion. If I try that with a Reegar, I have to get close before priming the target. All of the above mentioned weapons are better choices on vanguards like the slayer, drellguard, and novaguard, as opposed to the Reegar. because 1. they have no firing delay and 2. can connect with the target at midrange or better. The Reegar, on vanguards, is optimally used on the Batarian and Krogan - no surprise - they are melee-centric vanguards. The other vanguards get more benefit from other weapons.

The Reegar's impressive damage output is notable, and if damage were the only thing that mattered in the game, it would be overpowered. However, I think a lot of people underestimate how the firing delay and limited range prevent this weapon from breaking the shotgun metagame.

[Deerber]

ShinTheZero wrote...

Fortack wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

On paper i might look so but in practice you have to be fairly skilled to use it effectively (not die).

Are there other short range weapons that don't require the same level of skill?

TheKillerAngel wrote...

That is exactly why I don't consider it overpowered. It has limited applications and because it's only optimal on some classes, it doesn't "break" the shotgun metagame. It's powerful and easy to use but these factors in themselves don't make a weapon overpowered. You have to measure something's "OP'ness" by its destabilizing effect on the metagame.

What applications are you referring to? You can't be serious saying that to use the Talon, Claymore, Wraith, Raider, Piranha effectively you don't have to get within lolreegar-range. If you try to snipe with any of those weapons you're probably better off using the Avenger or something.

Talon, Claymore and Wraith are looking at you very strangely. Also, a Krogan defying the Claymore? Shame on you.

Also, you know that the N7 Piranha outdamages the Reegar in CQC and Close range?

I can assure you... Fortack does not defy the Claymore. He is simply honest about its limits, which most people around here seem not to be.

Also, the Piranha only outdamages the Reegar in 2 situations:

- outside of the Reegar maximum range, or

- in your dreams 

[llandwynwyn]

The fact people are trying to deny this is very funny to me.

[BridgeBurner]

Cyonan wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

I only have one question....

WHERE IS ANNOMANDER?

My answer:

Deerber wrote...

Lolreegar

Is there anything you don't find overpowered in this game? =P

Here's a comprehensive list of things that I think are overpowered:

(in no particular order)

1. Shadow strike
2. Kroguard
3. tactical cloak (though not due its damage boost)
4. iWin packs on an infiltrator
5. lolreegar
6. screenshake
7. grenades
8. snap freeze (admittedly, it is bugged)
9. Volus (but only if you know how to play them, arguably the best tanks (on host) in the entire game and the engineer is just as good a spawn nuker as the QME if you know how to use him)

That leaves a lot of stuff that I think is balanced or underpowered.

Modifié par Annomander, 04 février 2013 - 06:54 .

[Cyonan]

Deerber wrote...

I can assure you... Fortack does not defy the Claymore. He is simply honest about its limits, which most people around here seem not to be.

Also, the Piranha only outdamages the Reegar in 2 situations:

- outside of the Reegar maximum range, or

- in your dreams 

I'm not sure if I would say that saying the Claymore has an effective range roughly equal to the Reegar is being honest about its' limits =P

And certainly not about the Wraith's limits, which is the second most accurate hitscan shotgun, even if you include the Talon(Crusader is first. Kind of).