12 réponses à ce sujet

[brad2240]

I'm not a numbers guy, I don't dig under the hood of games, so I apologize if this is an obvious question or has been asked and answered previously.

Using a rapid-fire weapon with low damage per shot (ex: GPR, Phaeston, Revenant) with Explosve Burst Incendiary Ammo, does the time dilation of ARush actually cause me to lose damage by slowing the RoF?

Since the Burst is the bulk of the damage with this build, it seems that the extra 50% or 75% of a small base number would not make up for he number of bursts lost. Or am I way off base here?

[capn233]

It depends on your reference frame.

If your time measurement is real time, then yes it does less explosive burst damage per unit of time because of time dilation. "Game time" would measure the same as without Adrenaline Rush. If you mod the game to remove time dilation from Adrenaline Rush, that won't happen any longer.

This was like an argument people used to make about the power in ME2... you "didn't gain DPS" since time was dilated, despite the 100% damage bonus.

So it depends on what your goal is. If you simply are trying to do more damage while avoiding fire it isn't a big deal, since from an enemy's perspective you are doing more damage, and you are taking less damage per unit time so you could potentially fire longer for more sustained DPS. If you are interested more in speed-running, then it is conceivable that your time could be hurt by Adrenaline Rush's time dilation.

You are not going to make up for the damage of explosive burst with Adrenaline Rush's weapon damage bonus if the weapon has low damage per shot. But again, you aren't exactly losing any bursts. They are just spaced further apart because game time is moving more slowly.

[brad2240]

Good to know. Thank you for answering.

[capn233]

GPR X
Shot damage: 27.4
ROF: 900
Incendiary Ammo bonus: 20.5%
Explosive Burst: 105 @ 50% chance

Assume real world 1 second burst length

15 shots, 411 damage, somewhere between 735 - 840 for EB (15 is an odd number), Incendiary DOT is 84.255. Grand total ~1231-1336

Hardened Adrenaline Rush, Damage Bonus 50%, Time Dilation 30%

If I am correct in how the dilation works, 1 game second takes 1.3 real world seconds, or 1 real second is .77 game seconds.

Now burst length is only 11 shots in 1 real second. Weapon damage is 452.2, EB is 525-630, IA DOT 61.787, Grand total 1039-1144 (192 less damage)

Factors that push towards real time damage:
-Less base damage or lower rank weapons
-More additive weapon bonuses from other sources
-Higher rates of fire

Factors that would otherwise favor Adrenaline Rush
-More base damage, or higher rank weapons
-Less additive bonuses from other sources
-Lower rates of fire

The base weapon damage versus bonuses being opposite is because a larger base weapon damage number will receive a bigger bonus from Adrenaline Rush. But if you have more additive weapon damage bonuses from other sources, Adrenaline Rush's contribution will be relatively smaller, since it acts as an additive bonus with the rest.

Another thing to note is the above base damage was from Cyonan's weapon sheet for SP. If all the guns are now the same as in MP (which has been reported) then it is a little different:

GPR I-X
Base Damage: 28.8-36

Out of AR, 15 shots at 28.8: 432 weapon damage, 735-840 EB, 88.56 IA DOT, total 1256-1361

In Hardened AR, 11 shots: 475 weapon damage, 525-630 EB, IA DOT 64.944, total 1064-1170 (191 less damage)

Or for MP style GPR X

Out of AR - 540 weapon, 735-840 EB, 110.7 IA DOT, total 1386-1491

Hardened AR - 594 weapon, 525-630 EB, 81.18 IA DOT, total 1200-1305 (186 less, getting closer)

Assumes 900 ROF... he has MP GPR listed as 800 ROF though. Not sure why.

edit: it appears GPR has an inconsistent rate of fire in practice, which is averaged out to something like 785 in MP, but hits as high as 1016 or as low as 571.  That means numbers above are more theoretical than actual, but are still somewhat useful for illustrating the point.

Modifié par capn233, 04 février 2013 - 07:32 .

[humes spork]

Short answer, no.

Long answer is with the high-RoF weapons, explosive burst's damage output is limited by its internal cooldown. As far as I know, the internal cooldown operates in "real" time opposed to dilated time which means you're still getting the same number of procs over "real" time. It just feels like you're dealing less damage because you're in time dilation.

[UnknownMercenary]

For a low base damage rapid fire weapon, Hardened AR is still the way to go, right?

The extra 25% damage doesn't seem noticeable to me and if it's true that the explosive burst works on its own timer then I'll want the DR to make the most out of a weak automatic gun.

I'm working on an optimal Soldier build with the Typhoon and with the multiplayer buffed version of Fortification and a Typhoon X I can get the cooldowns low enough for constant AR usage (55% total DR) without giving up weapon damage in the passive.

[RedCaesar97]

UnknownMercenary:

Hardening would probably be the way to go so you could stack the damage reduction and keep the time dilation to a minimum. For the most part I would assume it comes down to preference. If you find Hardening better, go with it.

[Abraham_uk]

Hardening in a way improves damage per second.

More hit points ---> more time spent out of cover shooting at the enemy.
Less hit points ---> more time spent behind cover waiting for your shields to recharge.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 09 février 2013 - 07:09 .

[capn233]

AFAIK, EB does not have a timer, it has a chance per hit of 50%. This was a modifiable value in coalesced (and was reduced in Spectre difficulty...).

Your per shot EB chance does not change with time dilation, it is just that since time is dilated the time between shots and bursts is elongated. If you modded the game so Adrenaline Rush did not have time dilation (as in MP), then it would do comparable DPS to Marksman for a variety of weapons. Specifically, anything with decent base damage.

I would probably go Hardened with the Typhoon as well. At least in SP.

[brad2240]

Wasn't it said by a dev that EB has a cooldown of 1 second, but then that was proven to be false? Or didn't make it into the final product or something.

But there is no cooldown on it. That's why it's so ridiculous with a GPR's fire rate.

Modifié par brad2240, 10 février 2013 - 04:36 .

[capn233]

I have no idea if that was said by anybody. I don't remember seeing that, but could have missed it the first time around. A link would be great if anyone knows.

But as you say, it almost certainly does not have any cooldown worth mentioning, or else you couldn't abuse it with the rapid fire weapons.

[brad2240]

Found it in this thread:


http://social.biowar...4112/2#10917818

Eric Fagnan wrote...

There is a 1 second cooldown in between every fire explosion

But apparently this proved to not be the case.

Modifié par brad2240, 10 février 2013 - 03:26 .

[capn233]

Interesting. Don't know if I missed that or forgot it.

As in this thread, and what Athenau said in the other, it doesn't seem like the cooldown actually exists. Maybe I will try to take a closer look later today.