454 réponses à ce sujet

[Sloth Of Doom]

Ok I missed this thread somehow, and looking through the suggestions I think a lot of people didn't really read the OP but...anyways....



I would like to see some creatures that are dangerous without being your typical 'When stereotypical carnivores attack" The bronto was a good example of this, and I would like to see the idea expanded upon. Take a look at the top ten most dangerous herbivores (the bronto neatly fills the rhino slot) for some ideas. Wild Boars? (a bit overdone), a cassowary type bird? A herd animal like the peccary that is only dangerous in numbers? (Somewhat like how the deep stalkers were only dangerous in large numbers)



If you want to go with something different, consider 'creatures' like a swarm of insects (the entire swarm being considered one creature.) Make it very susceptible to flame based attacks and immune to standard attacks. (Think a variation on the 'swarm' spells, only as a natural opponent) Might be a bit too 'gimmicky' but it would definitely break the mold.



Something else I flt was underutilized was enemies with stealth. Ambush predators are deadly, and putting stealthy enemies in the game would make players a lot less likely to just blunder about. Ferelden doesn't seem like it would support many of the really big cats or their equivalents, but it smaller cats such as the lynx or bobcat would fit well. Also, the climate is wrong for alligators, but there is no reason for a thedas-based creature of a similar behavior not to hang out in the wetlands.



Personally I think moving plants as enemies are incredibly unbelievable and do not fit the lore of DA at all.

[Chateau Migraine]

Hello Sloth, to answer your post...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Ok I missed this thread somehow, and looking through the suggestions I think a lot of people didn't really read the OP but...anyways....

Point taken. While I did read the first post, I should have made sure that I understood everything of it first. (English isn't my former language) I haven't really said anything to contribute to the actual question, so... thank you for pointing it out, I will edit my former posts adequately. 

I would like to see some creatures that are dangerous without being your typical 'When stereotypical carnivores attack" The bronto was a good example of this, and I would like to see the idea expanded upon. Take a look at the top ten most dangerous herbivores (the bronto neatly fills the rhino slot) for some ideas. Wild Boars? (a bit overdone), a cassowary type bird? A herd animal like the peccary that is only dangerous in numbers? (Somewhat like how the deep stalkers were only dangerous in large numbers)

Your idea is definitely one to consider. Seeing as the Darkspawn force the herbivores out of their natural space of living (what is the English word for it, habitat?), it is very likely that adventurers will encounter some of them during their travels. 

However, seeing as Ferelden is quite particular in its climate, which struck me a little like Europe, I wonder which animals to use as inspiration. Boars and peccary strike me as appropriate (yet the boar is a generic enemy in a lot of RPGs - perhaps a little adaption would be in order?), but I have a problem with the cassowary. For me, it seems like a bird that would not really fit into the Ferelden climate, except maybe for the Brecilian Forest. What would you think about a bird that resembled more some kind of... grouse? Or a turkey? I am not informed about their danger, but I guess they are a force to consider when threatened.

If you want to go with something different, consider 'creatures' like a swarm of insects (the entire swarm being considered one creature.) Make it very susceptible to flame based attacks and immune to standard attacks. (Think a variation on the 'swarm' spells, only as a natural opponent) Might be a bit too 'gimmicky' but it would definitely break the mold.

I think that I understand your point. Your example would probably fit into the Korcari Wilds, but maybe that is just my perception... Finding any special creatures that truly fit in both the lore and DA's kind of setting (especially considering the type of fantasy) is not easy... Your suggestion would fit as there exists the spell of the Shapeshifter that hints at the existence of it; and while digging through the thread there were some (not all of them, but that's just my humble opinion) that struck me as appropriate. Anyway there are enough suggestions to be satisfied with and I'm sure there are a lot of yet unmentioned good ideas out in the sea.

Something else I flt was underutilized was enemies with stealth. Ambush predators are deadly, and putting stealthy enemies in the game would make players a lot less likely to just blunder about. Ferelden doesn't seem like it would support many of the really big cats or their equivalents, but it smaller cats such as the lynx or bobcat would fit well. Also, the climate is wrong for alligators, but there is no reason for a thedas-based creature of a similar behavior not to hang out in the wetlands.

Hm... I think that depends on how you imagine the kind of stealth to be. While I realize that a stealth similar or equal to the Rogue skill is definitely possible, I would prefer creatures that blend in into their surroundings due to their color. I also found the ambushes created by the spiders (I remember the Mage Origin) very satisfying, at one point I nearly fell out of my chair.

But to stop my brainless blabbering, would you be so nice and explain how exactly you imagined it to be?

Finding lynxes would be a pleasant surprise, you are right... Maybe, if that wasn't too... odd...a pack of these very large weasels (Gluttons?) would be refreshing to encounter in a northern part of Ferelden...

Personally I think moving plants as enemies are incredibly unbelievable and do not fit the lore of DA at all.

Point taken again. Rethinking (and rereading the informations) reveals that a blight-possessed plant is close to impossible, for it destroys the flora of an area. So I guess that idea can be put ad acta, given that the Sylvans already fill out that niche. And even recite poems.

And to answer your question, Upper_Krust...

Upper_Krust wrote...

Sounds a bit like what you are describing are Half-Darkspawn? For all we know the Architect is one such creature.

The idea is going slightly in the direction I intended, but I'd rather disagree. I wouldn't even portray them as a type of enemy, but rather as a kind of adapted sort of dwarves. It is... I am unsure how to make it possible to compare it to something without stepping onto someone's feet or make myself look dumber than I already do.

One could probably say that they suffer from the bone protrusions the blight causes in the diseased animals, maybe have a more disheveled appearance, given that they probably had to fight the Darkspawn for a long time until the adaption settled in. But they stay dwarves in the core - Very cautious towards people that do not hail from their city (especially if they are from Orzammar), traditional and of course bound to the stone.

[Sloth Of Doom]

Chateau Migraine wrote...

Something else I felt was underutilized was enemies with stealth. Ambush predators are deadly, and putting stealthy enemies in the game would make players a lot less likely to just blunder about. Ferelden doesn't seem like it would support many of the really big cats or their equivalents, but it smaller cats such as the lynx or bobcat would fit well. Also, the climate is wrong for alligators, but there is no reason for a thedas-based creature of a similar behavior not to hang out in the wetlands.

Hm... I think that depends on how you imagine the kind of stealth to be. While I realize that a stealth similar or equal to the Rogue skill is definitely possible, I would prefer creatures that blend in into their surroundings due to their color. I also found the ambushes created by the spiders (I remember the Mage Origin) very satisfying, at one point I nearly fell out of my chair.

But to stop my brainless blabbering, would you be so nice and explain how exactly you imagined it to be?

Finding lynxes would be a pleasant surprise, you are right... Maybe, if that wasn't too... odd...a pack of these very large weasels (Gluttons?) would be refreshing to encounter in a northern part of Ferelden...

Animals the blend with thier environments would be great, but they are relatvely hard to do convincingy in video games.  Some of the creature is the Witcher did this quite well, but I am havng a hard time of thinking of good examples.

Unfortunately, the way the DA engine is makes 3D objects stand out, which would make 'naturally' hidden enemies not very, well.....hidden.  I think the best they could hope to pull off would be to put the enemy "off screen" like they did with the spiders and have them leap out of undergrowth, or holes, or whatever seems appropriate.   An animal that bursts from small holes in the ground with a vicious attack would make people paranoid of every dark spot in the ground, which would really add to the atmosphere of certain areas.

Also, I agree with you about the cassowary, it wouldn't fit the surroundings very well.  I was just tring to think of types of dangerous herbavores that already exist.  The last thing i want to see is another game with a bad cockatrice rip-off.  Turkeys and the like aren;t very dangrous, but there is no reason tha Ferelden couldn;t have more predatory or territorial large ground fowl.

[Chateau Migraine]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Animals the blend with thier environments would be great, but they are relatvely hard to do convincingy in video games.  Some of the creature is the Witcher did this quite well, but I am havng a hard time of thinking of good examples.

Unfortunately, the way the DA engine is makes 3D objects stand out, which would make 'naturally' hidden enemies not very, well.....hidden.  I think the best they could hope to pull off would be to put the enemy "off screen" like they did with the spiders and have them leap out of undergrowth, or holes, or whatever seems appropriate.   An animal that bursts from small holes in the ground with a vicious attack would make people paranoid of every dark spot in the ground, which would really add to the atmosphere of certain areas.

Also, I agree with you about the cassowary, it wouldn't fit the surroundings very well.  I was just tring to think of types of dangerous herbavores that already exist.  The last thing i want to see is another game with a bad cockatrice rip-off.  Turkeys and the like aren;t very dangrous, but there is no reason tha Ferelden couldn;t have more predatory or territorial large ground fowl.

I never played The Witcher, so I'm left to my imagination, but otherwise I think you are right. Survival, the red "Hey, I am an enemy! Stab me!"-buttons on the map and the engine make it nigh impossible for an enemy to use the surroundings. Therefore, your idea with the enemies emerging from the shades is the most reasonable one. It is probably the best improvisation of animals using the surroundings to catch the player in surprise.

Also, it would provide for the most variety of creatures to be used with the method, for example, a path in the forest would trigger an enraged animal (maybe a bison or its European relative, the wisent? The latter lives in the woods, so it's not improbable) to emerge from shrubs or from behind a hill and attack.

My inner child already suggests a kind of very large rodent.

I also agree with your last point - ever since I play RPGs, the point of cockatrices has remained unclear to me. Maybe one could try and think of a species of flightless bird that would fit into the environment of Ferelden? Dangerous herbivores are a relatively small group. I can mostly think of bovines, deer during mating season, some of the large herbivores of Africa and our favorite, the boar... but when looking at the bronto, it might be likely that Bioware has a surprise in store for us.

Modifié par Chateau Migraine, 20 janvier 2010 - 02:45 .

[Sloth Of Doom]

Moose (European elk...not to be confused with North American elk, which are a totally different animal. Stupid entomology.) are very large and can be extremely dangerous. I know a guy that is in a wheelchair due to a moose attack.

[Sloth Of Doom]

Hrm, not sure if someone mentioned this or not, but how about giant centipedes...only like, more giant than actual giant centipedes.





I was bitten by an actual giant centipede while vacationing in the DP some years back I seriously thought it was a fatal bite or something, it hurt so much. Breaking both my legs was less painful than the bite of that little bugger and it was nly about 16 inches long.



Keep in mind that there are an estimated 8000 species of these creeps worldwide, some of which make the bugger that got me look friendly, and I can see a REALLY giant centipede as a valid encounter in DA .

[Brass_Buckles]

If we're talking killer cattle, how about basing it off the extinct aurochs? Supposedly modern cattle were bred from this creature, but it was extremely aggressive, particularly the bulls. Ferelden strikes me as the sort of place where such an animal might still exist. And then add a Blight-tainted version, and you have a formidable foe indeed.

[Maximus741000]

Since we're along the lines of fearsome cattle, what about Minotaurs? Stronger than a qunari and capable of great speed. But where would they live?

[Lotion Soronarr]

How about a large, muscled beast that tears you apart and carries a full litter of young within itself. When it dies, the young burst forth and attack anything organic in their path.

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Chateau Migraine!

Chateau Migraine wrote...

And to answer your question, Upper_Krust...

Upper_Krust wrote...

Sounds a bit like what you are describing are Half-Darkspawn? For all we know the Architect is one such creature.

The idea is going slightly in the direction I intended, but I'd rather disagree. I wouldn't even portray them as a type of enemy, but rather as a kind of adapted sort of dwarves. It is... I am unsure how to make it possible to compare it to something without stepping onto someone's feet or make myself look dumber than I already do.

I wouldn't worry about that, we are only just speculating at this point - anything goes!

One could probably say that they suffer from the bone protrusions the blight causes in the diseased animals, maybe have a more disheveled appearance, given that they probably had to fight the Darkspawn for a long time until the adaption settled in. But they stay dwarves in the core - Very cautious towards people that do not hail from their city (especially if they are from Orzammar), traditional and of course bound to the stone.

Blight Dwarves! When they go berserk they change into Bereskarns!

By the way, previously I suggested a Shriek Alpha and Sharlock Shadowmaster. I think Bioware already have these planned for Awakening. I saw a screenshot on the forums today of the Shriek, and it struck me that the new armoured Darkspawn image on the official Awakening page, has the same arm blades as the Shriek (only he's far more heavily armoured and looks bigger), and also the same type of legs. My guess is thats what he is, some type of powered up Shriek variant...which is cool.

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Maximus741000!

Maximus741000 wrote...

Since we're along the lines of fearsome cattle, what about Minotaurs? Stronger than a qunari and capable of great speed. But where would they live?

Given the look of the Ogres I have wondered if adding Minotaurs is a great idea (they seem pretty similar). However, when I read your post the first thing that struck me was an idea of a giant humanoid with the head of a Bronto!

While Ogres are strong, these creatures would be strong but also very tough. They could be creatures captured by the Darkspawn, or maybe even some sort of Ogre-Bronto crossbreed. They are tortured by the Darkspawn until they go berserk. The Darkspawn lock them inside great suits or armour which are bolted on to the creatures hide, causing it great pain.

When you fight them, you first have to break the armour off them, then you can deal damage to the monster itself.

They are so vicious that the Darkspawn can't control them, once released from their chains they attack anyone in the vicinity, even other Darkspawn.

Okay, we need a name for these monstrousities...the best I can come up with at the moment is BRONTOG(s).

BEWARE THE BRONTOGS!

...well I think its a good idea.

[TheRealIncarnal]

If there is a new creature added, I'd enjoy it if it wasn't just one that runs at you and attacks you. I really liked the behavior of the Corrupted Spider Queen, and I think than an animal a bit more like that would be very interesting. Hit and run attacks.



I'm not sure what you would make it though.

[evilhouseboat]

New types of creates:



(1) I really liked the lore which explained that each race had a broodmother, which resulted in different types of dark spawn. Could the darkspawn take over animals to create, for example, bear broodmothers. A bear broodmother opens up the possibility for some monstrous yet awesome creatures to fight.



(2) More types of demons! The sloth demon was amazing. It would be awesome to discover greed or lust demons in unexpected places. I.E. going to a brothel and being seduced only to find a lust demon or someone produced by a lust demon ( I'm not sure if that's in line with the use of demons in DA lore)



(3) Dracolich. For example, a pride demon can take control of a dead dragon.



(4) Elementals / Elementalists. I always liked the idea of elementals. Along the lines of the demons, a powerful druid type of character could summon an elemental. This opens up the possibility to fight an elemental or for elementals to dominate the person that summoned it. Although it's hard to come up with an idea for an elemental that isn't a blob of a certain colour. One way would be to find a mage who encased an elemental in a trinket which gives him elemental powers. Killing the mage would give you the trinket with three possible actions, break it and fight the elemental, bring the trinket to a mage, who knows how to destroy the trinket (along with the elemental to avoid a hard fight, because fighting an elemental should be Hard) or using the trinket for its power.



(6) A yeti in the mountains. Just one.



(7) (A side note, creature related) I would really like to see persistent summons / animal companions. As a powerful mage I would like to summon a demon or animate dead. As a ranger I could summon the Dog companion to be a persistent party member.



I just wanted to add that the creatures. lore, and party characters blew me away. DA:O ended up being above my expectations (which were high). I was expecting to enjoy the game, but it was full of fun surprises for someone who enjoys fantasy games.



As a fantasy title, Dragon Age has the ability to provide unique battles against characters and creatures in an epic and fulfilling way. Whatever Bioware comes up with, I can't wait for it.

[Upper_Krust]

Hey all!

David Gaider wrote...

Here's an interesting question that maybe some of you can offer feedback on.

For those of you that know something about the lore, we tend to have three types of enemy creatures:

* Creatures resulting from spirit possession.

I'm back with the final part of my monster ideas.

So creatures resulting from spirit possession in this game means one of three things: Demons (possession of the living), Golems (possession of inanimate matter) and Undead (posession of the dead).

Demons: It strikes me that the demons we see in the game are all lesser demons, they are all relatively humanoid in shape and size (yes there are one or two Ogrish types, but on the whole fairly similar). So I think what the demons need (in addition to some new lesser types), is some Greater Demons!

*Rage Demon: Already exists.
*Greater Rage Demon: Yes, the Balrog. The game needs a big fiery winged demon. My idea is that the demons head would be like a volcano, spewing out fireballs. When you kill it, it explodes like an Inferno spell.
*BOSS - DEMON PRINCE OF RAGE: You fight this creature in a volcanic area. The floor is crusted over, but the demon breaks through the floor (you see him from the waist up). After a certain time, he sinks down, then rises up again in another area. But the area he leaves behind is a dangerous lava pool. So the longer the fight goes on the more hazardous the location. 

*Avarice Demon: Copper coloured demon with bird-like features. Drains you of Copper coins equal to the damage they deal. No you don't get the money back - you will learn to fear these demons!
*Greater Avarice Demon: Silver vulture demon. Drains you of Silver coins equal to the damage they deal.
*BOSS - DEMON PRINCE OF AVARICE: Giant golden demon with two birdlike heads (a medieval design of Mammon). Drains you of Golden coins equal to the damage it deals (NB. At this point we should be onto Platinum with 100 Gold = 1 Platinum, or similar, maybe diamonds instead). This boss location is home to hanging cages/cells, which you can pay to open to free souls to help you win the fight.

*Jealousy Demon: This green, female Demon can mimic the attacks/spells and weapons of one of your characters (the first one to attack them). The demon is faceless until either you attack it or it attacks you, then it takes on the face of that character.
*Greater Jealousy Demon: These tall, green, female demons have two faces to them, and four arms. It has the attack power of two of your characters.
*BOSS - DEMON PRINCESS OF JEALOUSY: This not-so-jolly green giantess has four faces, and eight arms. It has the attacking power of all four of your characters.

*Hunger Demon: Already exists.
*Greater Hunger Demon: Huge elephantine behemoths that try and swallow you whole. If they do, that character ends up in a pocket dimension (think small black fleshy room) where they can still attack the walls (but you cannot benefit from healing from allies). Inside the monster's belly you are slowly but constantly drained of health.
*BOSS - DEMON PRINCE OF HUNGER: Inside this great monster is an entire dungeon level where the walls and floor are like mouths, constantly biting you.

*Desire Demon: Already Exists. Maybe change slightly. If they hit you (kiss you) they drain your stamina/mana, not health. When they reduce you to zero stamina/mana, you fight for them.
*Greater Desire Demon: Looks the same but can 'blow you kisses', so they don't need to touch you. 
*BOSS - DEMON PRINCESS OF DESIRE: You desire her so much, you slay your companions (cut scene). Only the shock of what you have done gives you the mental fortitude to battle the Demon Princess alone!

*Sloth Demon: Already exists. Maybe change slightly to have cold attacks as well.
*Greater Sloth Demon: When these walrus-looking demons stop, they become encased in ice.
*BOSS - DEMON PRINCE OF SLOTH: Great chamber filled with icy stalagtites and stalagmites. The boss can shake the roof causing stalagtites to fall. While if the stalagmites are broken they release Sloth demons and Greater Sloth Demons (and possibly an NPC who helps you?)

*Pride Demon: Already exists
*Greater Demon of Pride:
*BOSS - DEMON PRINCE OF PRIDE:

Golems: Naturally we could have golems based on the different metals, Red Steel, Silverite, Dragonbone, Star Metal etc. But those would just be upgrades.
*Force Golem: the significance of the Force Golem is that its clear and can have things inside it! These could be trapped NPCs, other monsters, or spells/elements - like trapped gas.
*Lyrium Golems (with nods to Spehere of Silence - even though I had thought of it too, honest): Big glowing blue golems, covered in those twisty spikes. I think these golems could maybe absorb spells cast at them, their attacks would deal mana damage to wizards and they could use Mana Clash as their strongest attack.
*Rune Golems: These golems are decorated with symbols, and if you hit them with a weapon that has runes attached, that particular rune on the golem lighst up and it hits you with those runes! The more runes you have enchanted - the more powerful these stone warriors.
*BOSS - (ORZAMMAR) COLOSSUS: Anyone remember those massive dwarf statues at Orzammar. The ones with the big double ended hammers? Well, imagine one of those climbing down from its pedestal to fight you.

Undead: Okay, I'll divide the undead into four groups: Bones, Blood, Flesh and Spirit.

Bones: We already have Revenants and Skeletons, with Arcane Horrors filling the 'Lich' role. I have suggested
previously we add Skeletal Horses and Skeletal Dragons (ie. Dracoliches).
*Burning Bones: The Fiery Man (see below).
*BOSS - WICKER MAN: Giant fiery prison. Stomps about trying to attack you. Also opens its 'face' to let out fiery skeletons (anyone remember the Burning Man part of the Fade - well think a dozen of those trapped inside a big fiery wicker giant). 

Blood:
*Vampires: Lets get away from the typical depiction of these and have a more bestial bat-like version (as again also suggested by Sphere of Silence).
*BOSS - BLOOD DRAGON: Okay, so who here ever wanted to take on the Dragon made from blood in the opening of the Dragon Age Origins start-up? The one that morphs into the EA logo. Well nows your chance.

Flesh:
*Zombies: classic shambling fools. Dumb but tough.
*Mummies: Basically a powered up version of the Zombie.
*Flesh Golem: Lets get Frankenstein in there. Just don't zap him with electrical attacks - he likes those.
*BOSS - CADAVER GIANT: A huge giant made out of zombies and other undead (I am sure I have seen this idea used in another game - maybe Castlevania...but that doesn't make it any less cool).

Spirit: We have Ghosts, Shades and Ash Wraiths. But I am a bit of a mark for Grim Reaper type of enemies (yes I loved Devil May Cry 3 as well).
*Reapers: classic scythe wielding bad guys. If slain by one of these guys you cannot revive during a fight (until they are killed).
*Fade Rip: Some shades are so powerful that when pushing through into our world they tear the fabric of reality. These act as a sort of gateway to other demons unless they are stopped (you gain no Experience for the demons which come through). 

Okay, I'll edit that later with the Pride Demon stuf, also need a BOSS for the Spirit based undead.

[DarrenHollywood]

I can't believe I'm late getting to this topic.  Hopefully these suggestions won't fall on deaf ears and the thread is still being looked at.

Beasts
It's important to make the world seem like it has a balance of creatures that support each other.  I feel like it's best to mix creatures together by location and think of them as predator and prey, much like how the dragon's cavern was filled with dead cows.
Deep Road Ideas:

• Slow crawling poison, fat and pulpy, cavernous worms.  They would be at the bottom of the food chain, poison to most creatures, but too fat and plumpy to rest.  The males grow very large and have razor tipped tentacles that they use to ambush creatures that happen by.
• The Moles.  hairless, vicious, and fast.  They excel at charging the worm and taking chunks of it's venomous meat back to it's lair. 
• Deep Stalkers swarm the mole lairs.
• A top of the food chain predator.  Thick heavy arms for burrowing and pulling food into it's giant maw.  It would sett traps like a burrowing spider.  Blind with no eyes, it's head and face is just a gapping maw of teath. 

Darkspawn:
We've seen plenty of Darkspawn humanoids, and we know how the humanoid darkspawn are made from boodmothers of the various races.  Now it's time for something different.
Dive into the mutated flesh ideas that are presented in the game, if a dwarf can become a brood mother, what happens to the most ancient and twisted darkspawn.  Pull some gruesome beasts from the ideas of D&D's far realms or the universe of Cthulhu.

• A dog sized tumor covered brain that pulls itself across the cavern floors using barbed tentacles.  In times without the arch demon these sentient flesh bulbs act as telepathic leaders to the darkspawn that are within several feet.  (Perhaps upon death darkspawn nearby go insane)
• A scarred and scab covered darkspawn that acts as an elite tank soldier.  These darkspawn are ancient, having lost themselves in the deep roads they consumed their own flesh to survive creating a thick hide of scars.  The will to survive of these darkspawn cannot be measured by any sane mortal.
• Hidden in the shadows of of the deep roads exist a mutalited sect of shriekers, that make their elven descended brethren look mundane.  Eyes prutrude from every side of their face, they crawl with long black tongues trailing the ground, and adorn their bodies with the body parts of other darkspawn.

I've got plenty of other ideas, but I would hate to continue posting if the topic isn't being read anymore.

[Upper_Krust]

DarrenHollywood wrote...

I've got plenty of other ideas, but I would hate to continue posting if the topic isn't being read anymore.

Well, we are still reading it...thats two.

I liked you idea about trying to think of the ecology of the monsters within certain locations...very interesting stuff.

Lack of Monstrous 'Themes' may hurt Dragon Age...?

You know, I have sort of been thinking that the Bestiary is very important for the game in general, and also DLC levels.

I think Bioware have almost exhausted the Bestiary themes with regards DLC.

Stone Prisoner: Cultists (and Golem)
Warden's Keep: Demons
Return to Ostagar: Darkspawn

I don't think they have much more to draw upon without repeating themselves.

If we examine the game itself. Dragon Age Origin has (I think) approx. 25 monster models (discounting variants).

If we assume each expansion will be half the length of the full game, then we can hypothesize there should be about 12 new monster models in the game. Looking at the information released so far we already know there are four new models (The Architect, Shriek Alpha(?), The Children and The Big Spider Demon), with two new variants (Spectral Dragon and Inferno Golem).

Now the Architect is a humanoid model, and more of an NPC than a 'monster', so I am not sure he counts. The big spider-demon is a sort of a BOSS we have to assume, so he won't be part of the rank and file.  

But I just wonder, imagine you are designing some future DLC levels for Bioware. Now lets say that for DLC we cannot afford to have any new monster models, but you can have (statistical) variants. Using the current crop of monsters I think you would be struggling to come up with something notably different...a dragon theme maybe (there are four dragon models). I believe the themes are limiting if we want to avoid repeating ourselves. While you can always have humanoid based DLC (Cultists, Slavers, Wizards etc) I think you want to balance the mundane opponents with the fantastical.

(Monstrous) Themes

Demons...(four models) been used
Darkspawn ...(seven models) been used
Dragons (four models)
Undead (five models)

So what NEW themes should Dragon Age have and what existng themes should be expanded upon? By themes I mean a group of between 4-6 monster models, allowing us to expand into new areas?

Giants? Elementals? Insectoid Races? Avian Creatures? Aquatic Creatures?

[evilhouseboat]

^ That's a very good question. I think it depends on the purpose of the DLC and this relates to their long term goals with Dragon Age: Origins. To add onto your train of thought I would like to add a few thoughts on the purpose of the DLC.



It appears as though the DLC and expansions will expand on the story of the darkspawn in such a way that the overall story arc of your main character is concluded. Possible sequels in the same universe might be a Dragon Age 2 or they could be a different era like Skeleton Age: Origins. This new game would be followed by a set of DLC and expansions. It's a type of business model, which I think Bioware has mentioned previously.



In that case, DLC would need to suit the storyline and lore at a deeper level then simply having a new set of creatures.



For example, there could be a tower. In the tower a demon took control of a shapeshifter who began to spawn mutants (half human/ half beast) creatures that infest the tower. The DLC would have you explore the tower. It would be full of fun types of creatures and battles with a final boss battle, but it would not necessarily explore / expand the current lore.



With that being said... I believe there's more potential for new creatures in sequels to Dragon Age that expand different continents / countries instead of DLC. Also, because it's hard to come up with new creatures that can feasible expand the DA lore.



One idea I mentioned previously was having the Darkspawn create Broodmothers for different animals. This would create new types of darkspawn, but would also reveal some of the lore related to darkspawn.



One theme that could also be expanded is spirit possession (sylvans) or placing souls into objects (golems). There could be a Darkspawn / Blood mage who puts souls of beasts into constructs. These could be poorly constructed sheets of metal or stitched together parts of different animals (or a combination of both).

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy evilhouseboat!

evilhouseboat wrote...

^ That's a very good question. I think it depends on the purpose of the DLC and this relates to their long term goals with Dragon Age: Origins. To add onto your train of thought I would like to add a few thoughts on the purpose of the DLC.

It appears as though the DLC and expansions will expand on the story of the darkspawn in such a way that the overall story arc of your main character is concluded. Possible sequels in the same universe might be a Dragon Age 2 or they could be a different era like Skeleton Age: Origins. This new game would be followed by a set of DLC and expansions. It's a type of business model, which I think Bioware has mentioned previously.

In that case, DLC would need to suit the storyline and lore at a deeper level then simply having a new set of creatures.

For example, there could be a tower. In the tower a demon took control of a shapeshifter who began to spawn mutants (half human/ half beast) creatures that infest the tower. The DLC would have you explore the tower. It would be full of fun types of creatures and battles with a final boss battle, but it would not necessarily explore / expand the current lore.

I slightly disagree, and in this thread I am specifically addressing bestial lore.

If we take your hypothetical ('Tower of Dr. Moreau') DLC, then we need new models to represent these half human/half beast creatures. Therefore we have to expand the bestial lore of the game to include these new monster types.

I suppose you coul try and tackle this with simply humans who change into the animals that already exist in the game, but I am not sure how different that sounds from simply using the animals that already exist in the game (wolves, spiders, bears, deepstalkers and brontos).

I mean we have werewolves. If we also had werespiders, werebears, werebrontos and weredeepstalkers then this DLC starts to show some promise.

With that being said... I believe there's more potential for new creatures in sequels to Dragon Age that expand different continents / countries instead of DLC. Also, because it's hard to come up with new creatures that can feasible expand the DA lore.

To be honest I am very skeptical that we will get to see other countries in the Dragon Age expansions. Personally I think they could hold off on showing us the other countries until Dragon Age 2.

I mean Amaranthine (from Awakening) is an area just north of Denerim. Maybe this game will expand into Orlais, but remember this expansion is probably only going to be half as big as the main game. So how detailed would any such treatment of Orlais be, considering Amaranthine is in Ferelden as it is. Dragon Age had about 8 major locations. Awakening might have only four, and one of those is likely to be Amaranthine.

One theme that could also be expanded is spirit possession (sylvans) or placing souls into objects (golems). There could be a Darkspawn / Blood mage who puts souls of beasts into constructs. These could be poorly constructed sheets of metal or stitched together parts of different animals (or a combination of both).

Demon-possessed Golems...that has potential.

[Chateau Migraine]

Upper_Krust, evilhouseboat, both of you have very good points altogether. I think that another problem is that the monster have not only to fit in the lore, but in the whole 'context' of Ferelden. Ferelden is restricted in that it only has specific landscapes (swamp, forest, hills, mountains) and is rather cold in climate. After all these blights that have trampled over the land, it is likely that the amount of animals is rather small, but adapted to hide from darkspawn - the ones who can't end up as ghouls and ultimately succumb to the blight.

That's why I also think that while being interesting and all, the idea with a Broodmother of... for example bears, that gives birth to Bereskarns is a little strange. While it is probably not impossible - humanoids and animals both turn to ghouls when exposed to the blight, but there are exceptions like the Broodmother - the small amount of Bereskarns and Blight Wolves we have seen ingame doesn't really speak for the idea.

However, I think that this idea with a giant, Broodmother-esque creature is possible with parts of the fauna dwelling closer to the 'source' of the Darkspawn. Maybe there exists a creature similar to that for spiders or Deep Stalkers, only in... larger, restricted in movement and very... uh, pregnant.

However, I fully agree on your idea of the expansion of spirit possession and animating objects. It would just depend on what is possessed or animated.
Your idea of creating these chimera-like beasts is particularly interesting. I imagined a quest that would send the player into a village that misses some inhabitants after already having something kill a lot of their cattle. Observation would reveal three or four of the chimeras which are followed to a small hut in the woods... with a fairly large cellar... and so on.

Personally, I'd imagine a little expansion of the animal section to be nice, but that has been mentioned before in the thread.

What I would probably think to be interesting would be the results of being exposed to lyrium for too long and neither be mage nor dwarf. I imagine there might be effects similar to radiation poisoning (apart from insanity) and over time, mutation in life around it. I wonder if we will ever meet templars that have gone mad from lyrium addiction.

What would possibly happen to an area with a lyrium ore lying very close to the surface? Maybe some organisms would react and mutate, or dead creatures would turn into a kind of spirit. I remember the dwarven ghosts in the Deep Road for which I never really found an explanation - possibly that could make their existence clear?

I am not sure what you think, but I am curious whether anything would happen at all and if it will, what results out of it.

Modifié par Chateau Migraine, 22 janvier 2010 - 01:29 .

[abnocte]

I remember someone here suggesting to add hydras, and I thougth that it will be farfetched.... BUT!! yesterday while I was playing DAO I came across some statues that pictured a massive monster with 3 heads!! ( I don't have screenshots since my PrintScr was on a strike yesterday....  )  The models are already ingame, now they only need to be animated!!

The statues I'm refering can be found in the blood mages building in Denerim, they are used as fireball traps. One of them pictures a massive 3-headed beast ( this one can be seen in the Sacred Ashes temple too, I think ) and the other looks more like 3 dragonlike snakes entwined to each other... I think this one would have some issues moving... so I think it will make more sense If the monster was just one of those dragonlike-snakes. It could be interesting to have an area where water reachs your knees and have one of these attack you....

[Peeker2009]

Brass_Buckles wrote...

If we're talking killer cattle, how about basing it off the extinct aurochs? Supposedly modern cattle were bred from this creature, but it was extremely aggressive, particularly the bulls. Ferelden strikes me as the sort of place where such an animal might still exist. And then add a Blight-tainted version, and you have a formidable foe indeed.

I like this idea. A great pity there arent still some around I've always thought, just to remind us humans what physical power really is.

Sloth of Doom wrote...

I was bitten by an actual giant centipede while vacationing in the DP
some years back I seriously thought it was a fatal bite or something,
it hurt so much. Breaking both my legs was less painful than the bite
of that little bugger and it was only about 16 inches long

Surely you use the term "little bugger" as classic understatement. That's a bloody monster!

BTW, The giant bird you seek might be the Elephant Bird from Madagascar, over 3 meters tall, and still around during french colonisation.  If cassowary is anything to go by, it's powerful legs and long claws would have been capable of disemboweling a human. Afaik, never before seen in a game.

BTW, has anyone mentioned large cats? Pantheris I mean, not just the oversized domestic ones seen on Australian current affairs shows lol

Modifié par Peeker2009, 23 janvier 2010 - 02:11 .

[Lord Issa]

Tainted Wardens would be epic! (Wardens who've been controlled by the taint) It would create some moral problems for you and Alistair.....Duncanspawn! Failing that: Sandal, King of......ENCHANTMENT

However, I can think of a pretty good dungeon:

The Tainted Halls

While travelling, your Warden hears of an ancient castle, long since deserted by it's former inhabitants. Locked away in the depths of this castle lies a mysterious creature, which is said to guard an ancient set of equipment. Eventually, you come across an old man who claims he was once a servant of the late Arl Valkon (the owner of the castle) and that he can lead you the castle....for a price. Claiming that he refuses to take the life of more than one fool, he says that only one of your number may enter the castle. At this rate you may kill him, an act which makes Sten and Morrigan approve, but annoys everyone else (bar Shale, who remains impartial). This choice allows you to take anyone you like, other than Wynne and Alistair, who flat out refuse to ignore the old mans wishes. Other options include going it alone, or if you have maxed out coercion, you may persuade him to allow you to take your team. Following this you must complete a long dungeon with monsters such as giant snakes, spiders and a large amount of Darkspawn.  At the end you encounter a locked door, which leads to a dungeon. You are then attacked by a powerful Emissary Overlord, a mighty Darkspawn Mage with Arcane Warrior skills. Defeat it to gain some Silverite armour and a unique blade, Deathstar, which scales in power to your character. You ransack the corpse and find a key. You open the door and there you find a gargantuan serpent sleeping amongst an army of statues. A darkspawn charges towards the serpent, but it awakens and stares at the darkspawn.......turning the beast to stone. You have discovered one of the last basilisks! Upon defeating it you gain Basilisk scales, which Wade can use to make some incredible Light armour. You then explore the dungeon until you find a gaunt man gabbling to himself. In his hand he holds a black sceptre which buzzes with power. Before you can talk to him a darkspawn bursts through the door. It sprints towards the staff, but the man lifts it and a great wave of lightning blasts out of it, reducing the Darkspawn to ashes. The man then glows, mutating into an abomination, but not one you have seen before. It reveals it is a Tainted One, a Pride Demon which has succumbed to the taint. It then proceeds to reveal that it must feed one other tainted beasts, so it uses Blood Magic to compel darkspawn to enter it's abode. He then tells you that the basilisk was placed there by the arl to prevent darkspawn from feeding the Demon. It then attacks you, roaring that the taint of a grey warden will grant it incomprehensible might. Kill it to receive the Shadowed Platerobes, exceptional armour which is incredible for warriors and Mages alike. It forms a set with The Shadowed Helm, Gauntlets and Boots (all received from the demon) and Deathstar OR Shadowrise, which is the staff the demon was using. You then recover a book from the corpse, which allows each class to call forth a Tainted Form, a being created from the strength of will of the warden as well as the taint that resides in their blood.

Warrior: Taintstrike: A deadly blow which has a chance to poison your foe with the power of the taint.

Rogue: Tainted Blood (activated): The Warden empowers their blows with their tainted soul, making them deal high damage, but they take recoil as well.

Mage: Tainted Blast: The Warden blasts every being around him with a dark pulse of energy. High damage, chance to paralyze your foe in fear. Friendly fire possible.

You then leave the castle, finding the treasure hall while you do so: 35 Gold, and some Ceremonial Armour, Scaling armour which defends especially well against darkspawn.

Basically, Basilisk, Snakes, Taintsnakes, Tainted One and the Darkspawn Arcane Warrior.

........I think I just wrote a DLC script  What do you guys think?

Modifié par Lord Issa, 23 janvier 2010 - 03:55 .

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there Lord Issa! 

Lord Issa wrote...

........I think I just wrote a DLC script  What do you guys think?

It was interesting to note how interesting you can make short adventures without requiring too many new monsters.

I do personally think you are throwing too much loot into one dungeon.

If we use Return to Ostagar as a measuring guide for approx. 1 hours play (lets call that the standard length of a dungeon level) then what you want from such a level is roughly 20 encounters based around a single theme but with as much diversity as possible. You probably also want maybe about 4-8 interesting items in total for your party.

My own personal guidelines would be to break those 20 encounters down into 5 sub-themes of roughly 4 encounters each.

Encounters 1-4 = Act One (The beginning)
Encounters 5-16 = Act Two (The bulk of the adventure)
Encounters 17-20 = Act Three (The finish)

Then further break those Acts down into difficulty (repeating for each group of four except the last four of a dungeon)

Acts One and Two
Encounter #1 = moderate (typical Darkspawn Party for instance)
Encounter #2 = tough (Encounter with either tough leaders or challenging tactics)
Encounter #3 = moderate
Encounter #4 = very tough (Encounter with both tough leaders and challenging tactics)

Act Three
Encounter #17 = moderate
Encounter #18 = tough
Encounter #19 = very tough
Encounter #20 = exceptionally tough (BOSS battle) 

You maybe want to give 1 good item for each very tough encounter and maybe 2-3 cool items for each boss encounter.

I posted my own revision of Return to Ostagar encounters here

http://social.biowar...47/index/651436

In brief I had:

Act One, The Hills: A Genlock theme with a Dragon Thrall as the climax
Act Two, The Castle, Part One: An Undead theme with the Ghost of King Cailan at the end
Act Two, Part Two: A Hurlock theme, with a Hurlock General commanding
Act Two, Part Three: A Shriek theme with spiders in tow, some Golems (guarding Maric's tomb), and a Shriek Alpha at the end.
Act Three, The Battlefield: A three part battle with the Necromancer and Ogre Alpha at the last.

So the overall theme is still the Darkspawn, but I tried to break everything down into its sub-components.

If we gave the same treatment to your DLC, I wonder what the sub-themes would be for each Act? Who would be the mini-bosses, and what would be the climax (the basilisk presumably). Also how can we make it as interesting as possible, but use the minimum amount of resources possible (by resources I mean cut scenes and new monsters which take time and money to create).

I was thinking that one way of doing it would be to have the Basilisk show up at multiple points in the adventure (the first two times you get to drive it away, the third (and last) you battle it to the death). The benefit of this approach (used sparingly of course) is that you visually 'sell' the monster to the heroes (ie. the audience) so theres a bit of a build up to that fight, as well as the initial shock. Also we get to use the same monster multiple times, but still keep it 'unique'. 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey all!

Here is something I posted in another thread last night. A dramatic re-envisioning of the Darkspawn mechanics and tactics. Thought it might also interest a few people here:

Darkspawn could really do with a re-envisioning from the ground up (mechanically speaking I mean). Lets see what I can come up with off the top of my head...

Genlocks should be sneaky and 'gobliny'. Good assassins rather than front line troops. Heavy use of poison and grenade-type weapons. Capable of stealth attacks with a good benefit for backstabbing. We can always have a screaming Suicide Bomber type of Genlock (hey it worked for Serious Sam, why not here) Genlock casters should concentrate on miscellaneous spells that harass and annoy (curses, slows) and summoning/animating.

Genlock #1: Genlock Assassin (basic Genlock with Stealth and poisoned weapons, uses hit and run tactics)
Genlock #2: Genlock Grenadier (carries potentially multiple grenade types: grease, fire, poison gas, duds, genies etc.)
Genlock #3: Genlock Suicide Bomber (Genlock Alphas, Dual Weapon style Master Assassins who explode when killed)
Genlock #4: Genlock Emissary (Genlock Alphas with Arcane, Blood Mage and Entropy spells)
Genlock #5: Genlock Forge Master (Genlock 'Omegas' who go around the battlefield setting traps. When they are slain, their spirit can transfers to crude golems ~ their sarcophagi)

Genlocks associate with Blight Wolves.

A note on poison (aka Nature Damage), it should really deal slow trickling ongoing damage rather than a single flat damage bonus. That way it gives the player something else to worry about in a fight.

Hurlocks should be strong, tough and 'orcish', military and regimented. Perhaps even attacking as a phalanx, or strong defensive line with shields giving them a great defense. With a large defense/armour bonus for the number of Hurlock allies adjacent to them. Imagine a 3x3 or even 4x4 unit of Hurlocks advancing like Spartans. We can always have Berserker variants who wield two-handed weapons and just charge right in. Hurlock Emissaries should concentrate on defensive and healing spells.

Hurlock #1: Hurlock Soldier (Basic Sword and Shield Hurlock, gains defense/armour bonus for every adjacent ally)
Hurlock #2: Hurlock Archer (Basic Bow wielding Hurlock...Th-thunk...take that Boromir)
Hurlock #3: Hurlock Berserker (Hurlock Alpha with Two-handed Weapon)
Hurlock #4: Hurlock Emissary (Hurlock Alphas with Arcane, Spirit Healer and Creation spells)
Hurlock #5: Hurlock General (Hurlock 'Omega', heavily armoured, huge shield, has a personal bodyguard around him)

Hurlocks associate with (Tainted) Brontos.

Sharlocks should be fast and frightening, and swarm characters. With a hefty attack/damage bonuses depending upon how many Shrieks are attacking one character. Personally I'd give them the overwhelm ability...though that ability in itself can be devastating, so to compensate I would make Shrieks a bit weaker - why they are tougher than Hurlocks (and Genlocks) when they derive from elven stock was a mystery to me anyway...we can always have Shriek Alpha's for special occasions after all. Sharlocks don't yet seem to have Emissaries, but if they did, they should concentrate on offensive spells and shapeshifting.

Sharlock #1: Sharlock Stalker (standard Sharlock, gains an attack/damage bonus for every ally adjacent to the enemy)
Sharlock #2: Sharlock Shriek (standard Sharlock, but with a stunning 'Shriek' attack...works a bit like a mind blast)
Sharlock #3: Sharlock Alpha (tougher Sharlock also gains the Overwhelm ability)
Sharlock #4: Sharlock Emissary (Sharlock Alpha with Arcane, Shapeshifter and Primal Spells)
Sharlock #5: Sharlock Master (Sharlock 'Omega', but has the ability to 'enslave' one of the heroes, and while enslaved, if you attack the Sharlock Omega, the hero takes the damage instead)

Sharlocks associate with Corrupted Spiders

Ogres are pretty good as they are, easily one of the games better enemies. Though I really would love to see a Regenerator or an Obliterator armoured variant with armour you have to break off before you can hurt the monster itself. If an Ogre Emissary existed, perhaps it would concentrate on personal buffs aiding it in combat.

Ogre #1: Ogre Brute (standard Ogre)
Ogre #2: Ogre Hurler (these Ogres, pick up boulders, stray darkspawn, your heroes and use them as missiles)
Ogre #3: Ogre Regenerator (Ogre Alpha, but with decent regenerative abilities)
Ogre #4: Ogre Emissary (Ogre Alpha with Arcane, Arcane Warrior and Spirit spells)
Ogre #5: Ogre Obliterator (Ogre 'Omega' encased in spiked armour, destroy the armour first then face the Ogre itself which has regenerative capabilities)

Ogres associate with Bereskarns.

...wheres that job offer Bioware?

Modifié par Upper_Krust, 26 janvier 2010 - 01:00 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

I found this site that has deails on my mythical creatures. Interesting read:
www.mythicalrealm.com/mythbeast.html

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 27 janvier 2010 - 08:02 .