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[Upper_Krust]

Hey all!

Okay, monster topic for today...

...How BIG should Dragon Age monsters get? Are they big enough? Do we just need more of the same size as the High dragon? Or should they go bigger, should Bioware super-size its monsters?

The reason I pose this question is because I just watched the Clash of the Titans trailer (trailer 2 that is) and the Kraken reminds me of a ginormous Broodmother.

We already have some big monsters in the game in...

Broodmothers
High Dragons

I think I have suggested some big monsters over the past week or so, but never really specified how big...

High Golems
Demon Princes
Giant Beasts (Tarrasque, Peluda, Cerberus, The Terrible Monster, Roc, Bicorn, Hydra etc.)

One thing I never suggested (at least not exactly) was a type of Big Undead. So I think this might be where I would put my Grim Reaper.

But what about anyone else. Any thoughts?

Modifié par Upper_Krust, 02 février 2010 - 12:23 .

[Upper_Krust]

The following is basically an update of a previous post

So creatures resulting from spirit possession in this game means one of three things: Demons (possession of the living), Golems (possession of inanimate matter) and Undead (posession of the dead).

DEMONS: It strikes me that the demons we see in the game are all lesser demons, they are all relatively humanoid in shape and size (yes there are one or two Ogrish types, but on the whole fairly similar). So I think what the demons need (in addition to some new lesser types), is some big Greater Demons about the size of Ogres, and some Demon Princes and Princesses that are as big as High Dragons!

Lesser Demon = Lieutenant (or Alpha)...normal size
Greater Demon = Boss (or Omega)...Ogre size
Demon Prince = Elite Boss (or Ultra)...High Dragon size

1. Avarice Demons

Looks like: Anthropomorhic Frog, either copper (lesser), silver (greater) or golden-yellow (prince). May have wings, not sure yet.

Behaviour: Aggressive
Formation: None
Strategy: Avarice demons gain a bonus to either attack, damage, defense or armor every time they score a hit (as if they just upgraded using the money they steal from you).
Tactics: Attack nearest enemy

Notes: Might have a cash register 'kerching' when they steal your coin. :+)

- Avarice Demon: Drains you of Copper coins equal to the damage they deal. No you don't get the money back - you will learn to fear these demons!
- Greater Avarice Demon: Drains you of Silver coins equal to the damage they deal.
- DEMON PRINCE OF AVARICE: Giant golden demon with three heads, one a frog, one a man, one a cat (a medieval design of Bael). Drains you of Golden coins equal to the damage it deals (NB. At this point we should be onto Platinum with 100 Gold = 1 Platinum, or similar, maybe diamonds instead). This boss location is home to hanging cages/cells, which you can pay to open to free souls to help you win the fight.

2. Desire Demon

Look like: Beautiful blue Men/Women but with horns and 'smoke-like' wings...however, this form is an illusion, they really look like blue anthropomorphic cows/bulls (ie. minotaurs) with 'smoke-like' wings.

Behaviour: Ranged (Human shape), Aggressive (Minotaur shape)
Formation: None
Strategy: When reduced to 50% Health their illusion drops and they are shown to be blue minotaurs. The minotaurs have far higher strength but lower dexterity, while the humanoid forms have higher dexterity and lower strength.
Tactics: Attack nearest enemy (at range - Human shape, or in melee - Minotaur shape)

- Desire Demon: Can create duplicate illusory images of themselves which only disappear when attacked. Blow you kisses which look like butterflies. These kisses drain your health and give it to the desire demon. In bull form they instead attack with a cone of spirit damage which they breathe out. Immune to spirit damage.
- Greater Desire Demon: Greater desire demons are still normal size, until their true forms are revealed - which are Ogre sized. Their wings can create a Death Cloud effect.
- DEMON PRINCESS OF DESIRE: In humanoid form she can turn one of the PCs against the party (you have to drop them). The Demon Princess of Desire is normal sized until reduced to 50% Health when she becomes High dragon sized, a big ugly cow demon with udders and suchlike. Casts Death Cloud effect at 50% and 25% Health.

3. Hunger Demons

Looks like: Orange, anthropomorphic Boar/Pig, no wings this time...it ate them.

Behaviour: Aggressive
Formation: None
Strategy: Hunger demons gain a bonus to attack every time they score a hit.
Tactics: Attack nearest enemy

- Hunger Demon: When it hits it digests one of your potions (randomly chosen)
- Greater Hunger Demon: Huge elephantine (sized) hogzillas that try and swallow you whole (if they score a crit against you). If they do, that character ends up in a pocket dimension (think small black fleshy room) where they can still attack the walls (but you cannot benefit from potions while inside, if you use a potion inside it, the demon gains the effect). Inside the monster's belly you are slowly but constantly losing health. It can only swallow one character at a time.
- DEMON PRINCE OF HUNGER: This battle is fought in a chamber where the whole chamber is the monster. Multiple mouths can swallow characters into pocket 'stomachs'.

4. Jealousy Demon

Looks like: Green, Wolf-faced humanoid (like a werewolf) with either 2 (lesser), 4 (greater) or 8 (Prince) arms and tree-like wings that look as if dripping with poison.

Behaviour: Aggressive
Formation: None
Strategy: Jealousy demons gain a bonus to attack every time they score a hit.
Tactics: Attack nearest enemy

- Jealousy Demon: This demon can mimic the attacks/spells and weapons of one of your characters (chosen at random). But also deals nature damage. Immune to nature damage.
- Greater Jealousy Demon: These tall demons have two faces to them, and four arms. It has the attack power of two of your characters. Have a breath attack that deals nature damage.
- DEMON PRINCESS OF JEALOUSY: This not-so-jolly green giantess has four faces, and eight arms. It has the attacking power of all four of your characters. Can surround itself in a miasma of green poison gas.

5. Pride Demon

Looks like: Anthropomorphic white horse with wings of purple lightning, carrying a golden mask of a young smiling child (cherub mask), one side is the mask, the other a mirror.

Behaviour: Passive (struts about throwing insults, occasionally attacking you, only after it gets hurt does it attack)
Formation: None
Strategy: Pride demons start off very difficult to hit/hurt, but gain a penalty to defense/armour when they reach 75%, 50% and 25% Health.
Tactics: Attacks first enemy to hurt it

Notes: Pride demons will mock you throughout the battle and sometimes even heal you (to rub it in how much better they are than you) if they still have not been dropped below 75% Health.

- Pride Demon: Uses its mirror/mask like an axe, will also reflect the first spell cast at them through the mirror, then the mirror cracks. Can cast a shocking fingers effect. Immune to lightning damage.
- Greater Demon of Pride: Reflects the first two spells back at you then its mirror cracks. Can cast a thunderstorm effect at 50% Health.
- DEMON PRINCE OF PRIDE: Battle this Elite Boss in a great mirrored chamber. Spells automatically reflect back on you unless you smash all the mirrors in the room (each time a spell is reflected a mirror breaks). Casts thunderstorm effect at 75%, 50% and 25% Health.  

6. Rage Demons

Looks like: Red, Anthropomorphic Bear (ie. Werebear)...with wings made from fire.

Behaviour: Aggressive
Formation: None
Strategy: When the Rage Demon reaches 75%. 50% and 25% Health it gains a bonus to strength.
Tactics: Attack nearest enemy

- Rage Demon: Rage demons explode as a fireball when killed, Can breathe a cone of flame. Immune to fire damage.
- Greater Rage Demon: Yes, the Balrog. The game needs a big fiery demon. Can throw fireballs. When you kill it, it explodes like an Inferno spell.
- DEMON PRINCE OF RAGE: You fight this Elite Boss in a volcanic area. My idea is that the demons head would be like a volcano, spewing out fireballs. The floor is crusted over, but the demon breaks through the floor (you see him from the waist up). After a certain time, he sinks down, then rises up again in another area. But the area he leaves behind is a dangerous lava pool. So the longer the fight goes on the more hazardous the location. Casts Inferno effect at 75%, 50% and 25% Health.

7. Sloth Demon

Looks like: Pale blue anthropomorphic goat (ie. Weregoat)...shivering and frozen with icicles hanging from it including wings of frost. Greater demons of sloth would be the same size goats but covered in far more ice,so think in terms of winged ice golems with goats inside them.

Behaviour: Passive
Formation: None
Strategy: Sloth demons gain a bonus to defense every time you miss them with an attack 
Tactics: Attack first enemy to attack them

- Sloth Demon: Each hit drains not only some of your health but also some of your stamina. Can also breathe a cone of cold. Immune to Cold Damage.
- Greater Sloth Demon: Has an aura that slows you. Can generate a Blizzard effect.
- DEMON PRINCE OF SLOTH: Elite Boss is like a seated goat frozen within a giant high ice golem. You have to break the ice from him to attack him. He re-freezes the ice at 75%, 50% and 25% Health. Great chamber filled with icy stalagtites and stalagmites. The boss can shake the roof causing stalagtites to fall.  While if the stalagmites are broken they release Sloth demons and Greater Sloth Demons (and possibly an NPC who helps you?). Casts blizzard effect at 75%, 50% and 25% Health.

Still working on a few ideas above,but you get the basic gist.

Any thoughts...?

[Solica]

My single comment for this thread, would be that I really don't enjoy killing animals much. Not even dragons (they're probably close to extinction as well).
Of course, wolves and bears attacked already in Baldur's Gate, so it's a tradition (don't even mention Morrowind , but that got a nice user mod eventually). But if that tradition would go away, would anyone really miss it? In DA:O we had a Ferelden supposedly runover by darkspawn, yet so many encounters were with common wildlife?

I've hiked around enough in wilderness in my days, and my point would be that wildlife rarely take every opportunity to attack you. ...Except for the bugs. So maybe we could limit attacking animals to bugs of any kind, possesed or trained animals, and animals cornered in their lair.

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there Solica!

Solica wrote...

My single comment for this thread, would be that I really don't enjoy killing animals much. Not even dragons (they're probably close to extinction as well).
Of course, wolves and bears attacked already in Baldur's Gate, so it's a tradition (don't even mention Morrowind , but that got a nice user mod eventually). But if that tradition would go away, would anyone really miss it? In DA:O we had a Ferelden supposedly runover by darkspawn, yet so many encounters were with common wildlife?

I've hiked around enough in wilderness in my days, and my point would be that wildlife rarely take every opportunity to attack you. ...Except for the bugs. So maybe we could limit attacking animals to bugs of any kind, possesed or trained animals, and animals cornered in their lair.

I think Dragon Age, although a fantasy game, has faux-medieval pretentions and sensitivies and therein, hunting bears and wolves and (vice versa) them hunting you is seen as an everyday occurance.

Also a lot of the wild animals you face are tainted with the blight and are somewhat more monstrous.

Also some of the animals you face have been trained by the Darkspawn (or Humans where Mabari are concerned).

How about this idea...lets say when facing a group of wolves that attack you, you had the option of letting them go (after successfully defending against them for a time). Later in the game these same wolves might come back and help you by attacking your enemies.

Maybe they could give you the chance to just try and scare animals off (though not tainted animals, nor trained animals as you yourself note).

[melkathi]

Has anyone suggested swarms of blight flies?

[ashez2ashes]

What about Unicorns? If Gray Wardens can no longer go into war riding Griffins, maybe we can discover some kind of badass BATTLE UNICORN instead?



Like Black Cleysdale horses with fangs covered in armor? That'd be sweet.

[Maximus741000]

Fangs? doubtful. But maybe the blighted versions of their kind might have them, and have black skin with horns of metal rather than enchanted ivory. But yet I like the idea of Unicorns as mounts, but in their traditional appearance, as mounts for champions of good. But evil counterparts could still exist.

[Deldarian]

A pheonix would be nice, lore-backed as a fade spirit of hope or rebirth possibly, like the one "Spoiler" is bonded with.

[Deldarian]

Also, possibly demons types like deceit could be your "Faeries," Ice elementals could also be covered by Demons of the human emotion Apathy, well lack thereof.

[Randomname1212]

David, I see a surprising lack of horses in the game. I mean seriously, does nobody use a horse in Ferelden? I know oxes are around, but I have not seen a horse in the entire game.

[Upper_Krust]

Randomname1212 wrote...

David, I see a surprising lack of horses in the game. I mean seriously, does nobody use a horse in Ferelden? I know oxes are around, but I have not seen a horse in the entire game.

Its a valid point, I just wonder if Bioware didn't want to get into the whole 'mount' problem and thus simply banned them altogether. I'm more annoyed from an enemy point of view than a PC point of view; I'd like to fight Revenants mounted on undead horses, battle blight tainted unicorns that teleport about the place, or maybe even Unitaurs - half-man half-unicorn...?

Maybe we'll see them in Dragon Age 2?

Haven't posted here in a while (sorry). Busy with work. But was thinking that perhaps every monster could have additional options as dictated by their rank. Just to clarify the ranks:

Normal...such as Wyrmling or Hurlock
Lieutenant...such as a Drake or Hurlock Alpha
Boss...such as a Dragon or Hurlock General
Elite Boss...such as a High Dragon or Archdemon

Lieutenant Options: kick in at 50% Health
Boss Options: kick in at 66% and 33% Health
Elite Boss Options: kick in at 75%, 50% and 25% Health

Possible options could be:

*Drinks a potion (or uses a salve)
*Summons reinforcements
*Changes attacking style (becomes more agressive or more defensive)
*Physical Metamorphosis (giving it different types of attacks/defenses)

[Sylvius the Mad]

I wish I'd sen this topic when David posted it a month ago.

You ahve demons, darkspawn, and beasts, and you want to avoid intelligent humanoids...

I'd suggest magical constructs. Golems are the only example in the game, but there could be more. Everyone loves homonculi.

[Harelda]

Randomname1212 wrote...

David, I see a surprising lack of horses in the game. I mean seriously, does nobody use a horse in Ferelden? I know oxes are around, but I have not seen a horse in the entire game.

 Or at least stop taunting us with constant references to these invisible animals.

 "I like ponies!" indeed.

[AlgolagniaVolcae]

Well you've already got snake venom in the game, but no snakes.

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Chateau mate...just seeing the video of the Children...



...reminded me of this...

Chateau Migraine wrote...

Upper_Krust wrote...

*Broodmother - Stage II. It occurred to me that the Broodmother was somewhat like a caterpillar. So how about the idea that they ultimately metamorphose into a hideous moth-like beastie?

What were the signs for you that made you have the impression of a caterpillar? 

The ideas of the Broodfather and the... eh...Darkspawn larva... are very nice ones, and creepy too.

[Harelda]

AlgolagniaVolcae wrote...

Well you've already got snake venom in the game, but no snakes.

 Venom comes from Toxin Extract which comes from giant Spiders. I do not remember any references to snakes.

[Upper_Krust]

Hey everyone!

Now that Awakening is out, what have we learnt about monsters in Dragon Age? Well, with all due respect my first impression is that Bioware have really not put in much effort at all with new monsters.

Awakening...about 2 hours in...

Fought a single solitary new creature (Disciple/the Withered); which is basically a headswap humanoid with no new powers.

Awakening...about 4 hours in...

Fought some Charred Sylvans; basically palette swap Wild Sylvans with no new powers.

Awakening...about 6 hours in...

Fought the Children (grub form); our first new enemy model.

etc.

Not only are new monsters rarely encountered, but they are completely anonymous by their lack of showcasing anything new (in terms of powers) and the ease with which they are dispatched (even on Nightmare difficulty).

I'm not saying its utterly horrendous, there are a few nice monsters in there (The Children, Queen of Black Marsh), but on the whole its a very disappointing selection. What did the rest of you think?

1. Too few new monsters
2. Those new monsters encountered far too infrequently
3. Most new monsters are just texture swapped reskins with no new types of attacks or defenses
4. All new monsters too easy

[Kipperdee]

Sea monsters of the deep. This would come under the category of 'Beasts', unless they are corrupted too. (Perhaps the Deep Roads are deeper than we think?) Giant kraken, sharks, plesiosaurs and ichthyosaurs. We have the Amaranthine Ocean, The Frozen Sea and the Waking Sea after all...

[Brockololly]

Yeah, sea monsters of some sort would be cool- Given the oceans and bodies of water in Ferelden it would be cool to have some of DA2 or some DA game be on a boat or more naval oriented. We kind of saw a little of that in Awakening when you could get to the coast, but come on lets have some PIRATES!

[Upper_Krust]

Wow - what a blast from the past. never expected anyone to dredge this thread up again.

Kipperdee wrote...

Sea monsters of the deep. This would come under the category of 'Beasts', unless they are corrupted too. (Perhaps the Deep Roads are deeper than we think?) Giant kraken, sharks, plesiosaurs and ichthyosaurs. We have the Amaranthine Ocean, The Frozen Sea and the Waking Sea after all...

The problem you might find with this idea is how the heck can the PCs fight underwater. What might be more plausible are amphibious creatures or the kind of monsters which can exist in water, but reach onto land with certain attacks (Plesiosaur necks and Kraken tentacles for instance).

I have been tinkering away on my free time brainstorming up some new monsters for the game as well as fixing the existing Bestiary. I think I have something like 1000 monsters designed in brief.

One aspect I think is important (that I may have touched on before) is changing level scaling for rank scaling. So that a lieutenant rank monster of Level 3 is only a normal rank monster of Level 8. This allows players to encounter the same monsters but still have that sense of progression.

So for instance you might face a Lion in the Korcari wilds. Its Lieutenant Rank - Level 3. If you face one later in the Brecilian Forest it would be Normal Rank - Level 8.

That way you can plan variants to monster models:

1. Lion (Korcari Wilds area)
2. Glatisant...snake (or dragon?) headed lion with poisonous bite (Brecilian Forest area)
3. Griffon...winged lion with eagle head (Frostback Mountains area)
4. Chimera...winged lion with goat and snake/dragon heads
5. TERRIBLE MONSTER...massive (upscaled) lion with ancient weapons lodged in its body. These weapons can animate to protect the monster.

1. Giant Crocodile (Korcari Wilds area)
2. Basilisk...monster with poisonous bite/spit that can also slow you or even turn you to stone with its gaze (Brecilian Forest area)
3a. Meiolania...shelled lizard - like a giant tortoise, slow but very tough (Frostback Mountains area)
3b. Afanc...sail-backed lizard, faster but more fragile monsters, accompanied by an icy fog (Frostback Mountains area)
4a. Aremag...red, fire breathing giant tortoise, slow but very tough.
4b. Salamander...red, sail-backed lizard that radiates intense heat.
5. TARASQUE...massive (upscaled) shelled lizard. The shell can reflect spells. PCs must destroy the shell whereupon the monster becomes much faster, but less well armoured.

etc.

[shedevil3001]

these are 3 types of creatures i thought might have been around in that time era

1. minotaurs

2. sea creatures of some kind

3. centaurs



also some form of mounts would be awesome too maybe horses, griffons or unicorns, anything really or my warden will waste away from too much walking and not enough rest and lack of eating, especially with how big thedas is if she's going all over it on foot "shudders" scary thought

[Upper_Krust]

shedevil3001 wrote...

these are 3 types of creatures i thought might have been around in that time era
1. minotaurs
2. sea creatures of some kind
3. centaurs

also some form of mounts would be awesome too maybe horses, griffons or unicorns, anything really or my warden will waste away from too much walking and not enough rest and lack of eating, especially with how big thedas is if she's going all over it on foot "shudders" scary thought

Hey there Shedevil!

Would Minotaurs not be too like Ogres in the game though?

[shedevil3001]

no not quite they are a bit cuter lol but still dangerous

[Chuvvy]

David Gaider wrote...
Two, sentient humanoid "monsters" were to be avoided... meaning we didn't want to rely on tribes of orcs, goblins and bugbears populating every remote area that were okay to kill because they're hostile.

You could have had a Goblin Jim like in Oblivion. Best free form quest evar.

[Chuvvy]

Upper_Krust wrote...
4. Chimera...winged lion with goat and snake/dragon heads

This a thousand times this. That would be an epic boss fight.