174 réponses à ce sujet

[Sith Grey Warden]

Steam came with a free copy of Portal, a game that Yatzhee of Zero Punctuation couldn't find as much as a nitpick in. If Origin introduces itself to me by giving me a game of such incredible quality, I will forgive any and all its crimes past, present, and future.

If not, I'll use it when I have to and see how it goes.

[Sanunes]

With previous experiences I find the program itself to be extremely close as far as what I want in functionality, Steam has the advantage because its been out for years. Dealing with their customer support I have had better experiences with Origin over Steam because of poor and rude customer support by Valve.

Modifié par Sanunes, 05 février 2013 - 02:21 .

[nightscrawl]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The point being that I have heard all of your complaints for the past decade for Steam. If it's a deal breaker for you, then fine.  Steam was (and in some cases still is) a deal breaker for others.  I encourage you to stand by your convictions, especially for a luxury good like video games.

Worst case scenario, you skip out on the BioWare/EA games while Origin (and others) provide competition in the digital marketplace which will only help the consumer for the non-EA games it hosts. There's no shortage of PC games out there so it's not like you'll have nothing to play.

Best case scenario, Origin continues to improve (like Steam did) and even find a way to contribute something extra to digital purchasing of PC games that competitors like Steam and GamersGate have to adopt.

I would prefer it be an option. If I were the type of person to buy several games a year then Steam and Origin and all of those services would be useful to me. But I'm not, and I don't want to have a game attached to a service that I will only be using for ONE game.

Origin, sadly, is not a deal breaker for me with DA3. If I am forced to use Origin in order to play DA3 I will go ahead and do that, but I won't be pleased. As it is, I'm already invested in the Dragon Age franchise. As a counter example, I was eager to play Skyrim, and that would have been my first Elder Scrolls game, but I decided not to bother when I found out Steam was required.

I pay a monthly fee for WoW and buy Collector's Edition WoW expansions. I play Dragon Age and buy DLC and other media (novels, comics, movies) for Dragon Age. That's it. That's all I can afford, that is basically all I'm interested in, and it is all I have time for. I don't think it's unreasonable to want my limited games to not be attached to a service I know I will never use.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 05 février 2013 - 02:44 .

[nightscrawl]

AlexJK wrote...

Could we agree that the problem here isn't that services such as Origin and Steam keep your game updated, but that those updates can include undesirable feature changes instead of just bug fixes?

Oh yeah? What about DA2 patch 1.04? That has a GAME BREAKING bug dealing with the Sebastian DLC. I always wait a while after patches are released to see if they introduce game breaking bugs. With Steam you don't have a choice, do you?

[Vilegrim]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The point being that I have heard all of your complaints for the past decade for Steam. If it's a deal breaker for you, then fine.  Steam was (and in some cases still is) a deal breaker for others.  I encourage you to stand by your convictions, especially for a luxury good like video games.

Worst case scenario, you skip out on the BioWare/EA games while Origin (and others) provide competition in the digital marketplace which will only help the consumer for the non-EA games it hosts. There's no shortage of PC games out there so it's not like you'll have nothing to play.

Best case scenario, Origin continues to improve (like Steam did) and even find a way to contribute something extra to digital purchasing of PC games that competitors like Steam and GamersGate have to adopt.

EA wrote:2. Consent to Collection and Use of Data.

You
agree that EA may collect, use, store and transmit technical and
related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address), operating system, Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware,
that may be gathered periodically to facilitate the provision of
software updates, dynamically served content, product support and other
services to you, including online services. EA may also use this
information combined with personal information for marketing purposes
and to improve our products and services. We may also share that data
with our third party service providers in a form that does not
personally identify you. IF YOU DO NOT WANT EA TO COLLECT, USE, STORE,
TRANSMIT OR DISPLAY THE DATA DESCRIBED IN THIS SECTION, PLEASE DO NOT
INSTALL OR USE THE APPLICATION. This and all other data provided to EA
and/or collected by EA in connection with your installation and use of
this Application is collected, used, stored and transmitted in
accordance with EA’s Privacy Policy located at http://www.ea.com"
onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"
onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. To the extent that
anything in this section conflicts with the terms of EA’s Privacy
Policy, the terms of the Privacy Policy shall control.

Move along, no massive piece of spyware here (which by the way you cannot cancel your account for, I tried after ME3) .  When it stops gathering all the information in the world about who I am and what I do with my PC I may be less concerned about it.   And this is becoming standard, Big Brother has to know everything.

[Brockololly]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
 Are there other places besides Steam that I can buy any of the Half-Life/Portal/Left 4 Dead games? (nevermind that many games now come out with Steamworks built in)

Yes. You can get Valve games digitally from Impulse or Gamefly. Granted, they use Steamworks so you have to have Steam installed.

Blair Brown wrote...
Origins' challange  (and uPlay etc etc) is to build something as good as steam in less time  because they are not the first.  It took Steam YEARS to get where it is.
 We will see what happens, competition breeds innovation. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

That's part of my problem with the likes of Origin and Uplay and all of the other me too digital download services- they've had 8 years to watch and see the problems Steam has had to work through. And in the case of many of them, they don't seem to have learned from Steam but rather they end up repeating the same mistakes. Or simply not offering any added value to the consumer to differentiate their service from Steam.

That's why I like GOG- they're for the most part offering a digital download service that's doing something Steam isn't, with older games guaranteed to work on newer systems and offering them DRM free.


I don't really have many issues with Origin in my time using it, mostly through Battlefield 3 and when they made the mistake back in October of offering a ton of games for free. Generally, the download speeds for games are pretty damn good- better than Steam a lot of times.

But that's about it. Whereas Steam has been adding features that make me actively want to buy my game on Steam or make sure I can add the game key to my Steam library. Steam has Steam Workshop which reignited my interest in modding for games and makes it easy, unlike Origin. They have Big Picture Mode, which makes it easy to PC game on my TV, unlike Origin. They have regular sales that are often really good (Origin has sales but they aren't as frequent or advertised as well as Steam). They have a storefront that is easy to search, unlike Origin. They put DLC on sale regularly and I don't have to use imaginary currency to buy it, unlike Origin.

Honestly, I don't mind Origin that much. But its not doing anything that Steam doesn't already do better for the most part, so I don't have much use for it and its another annoying extra login that keeps my PC game library split up. Not having EA games on Steam, Origin or not, just means I don't end up buying as many EA games as I used to since they aren't as visible to me. Whereas I've impulse bought a bunch of games from Steam because that's where they're most visible to me.

Modifié par Brockololly, 05 février 2013 - 03:35 .

[Fawx9]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The point being that I have heard all of your complaints for the past decade for Steam. If it's a deal breaker for you, then fine.  Steam was (and in some cases still is) a deal breaker for others.  I encourage you to stand by your convictions, especially for a luxury good like video games.

Worst case scenario, you skip out on the BioWare/EA games while Origin (and others) provide competition in the digital marketplace which will only help the consumer for the non-EA games it hosts. There's no shortage of PC games out there so it's not like you'll have nothing to play.

Best case scenario, Origin continues to improve (like Steam did) and even find a way to contribute something extra to digital purchasing of PC games that competitors like Steam and GamersGate have to adopt.

Except that Origin hasn't actually leanred anything.

They spent time doing bloody streaming integration rather than putting in group chat.

Not to mention the fact that Steam hasn't actually stopped inovating itself. It just got new community features along with big picture mode and hopefully a tiny thing called Steam Box coming soon. Origin? Trying not to crash itself within a month.

I'm fine with EA thinking they can build a competitor to Steam, but like Apple Maps they have to realize that they are 10 years behind and should just accept that its going to take a while to catch up. Consummers shouldn't be punished in the mean time beacause of this though. It's not like Apple blocked Google from offering their better mapping service on the iPhone.

[Darth Death]

JasonPogo wrote...

 I'm just saying I don't want to have Origins on my computer.  Just make the game stand alone like the first two.  If Origins is required to play this game I will most likely pass it up.

Oops! Completely misread your comment.  

Modifié par Darth Death, 05 février 2013 - 05:07 .

[craigdolphin]

Devs, if your argument is that origin is a good thing for consumers, because it is a form of competition for steam, then I think you're off-base.

If both steam and origin were true competitors then EA and Valve would be publishing on each others services and ACTUALLY competing. While you have publisher integration with the store front, and game exclusivity is used as a hammer to force people to use the store, that's not competition it's just market fragmentation and it certainly provides no benefits to consumers. There's no competing on price. There's no competing on terms and conditions. There's no competing on customer service. There's no competition at all because there's no customer choice to be made.

I would be all for Origin if Origin's T&C and EULA were written so as to ensure our right to control what data is sent to EA, and thereby to whatever 3rd parties EA wants to share it with. If it gave us the option not to send non-transaction related data I would be fine with it. If EA's legal department ensured our enduring right to play what we have paid for is respected(talking about single player obviously) I would be fine with it.

The point is, I would vastly /prefer/ a first party software like Origin over third party DRM provided that the publisher repected their paying customers rights to privacy and to keep playing legally purchased games over time. But Origin is still setup in a way that I find unacceptable as a paying customer. Fix your corporate attitude towards your customer's rights, or get out of retail. In the meantime, I'll buy second hand for console til you decide to start offering a product with an acceptable EULA and T&C for the PC version. And once you do, then I'll go back to buying new for pc.

As for Steam: yep, not a fan of that either. The only real difference is that Valve has, over time, IMO acted like a reasonable and responsible corporate citizen. Perhaps more people would be willing to tolerate Origin if the same could be said to be true for EA. GOG is the only online store I respect and do business with at the moment.

Modifié par craigdolphin, 05 février 2013 - 04:49 .

[AlexJK]

nightscrawl wrote...

AlexJK wrote...

Could we agree that the problem here isn't that services such as Origin and Steam keep your game updated, but that those updates can include undesirable feature changes instead of just bug fixes?

Oh yeah? What about DA2 patch 1.04? That has a GAME BREAKING bug dealing with the Sebastian DLC. I always wait a while after patches are released to see if they introduce game breaking bugs. With Steam you don't have a choice, do you?

No, with Steam you don't have a choice. But I don't see this as a bad thing in itself. Sure, the specific situation you describe is a problem, but only serves to highlight that improvements in QA are needed, especially with DLC becoming more common and when a growing proportion of the audience is being auto-updated.

[Reikilea]

There is always one another way. But I suppose you don´t do it on the west.

And why such a problem. I only have two things on my Origins. Mass Effect 3 demo and Mass Effect 3 game. I had to make some sacrifices.

[AHadley23]

I may not like Origin, and I may not like EA, but this is Bioware we're talking about. Not liking the publisher's pushware is simply not a good enough reason to miss out on one of the best RPG developers there has ever been.

Modifié par AHadley23, 05 février 2013 - 06:40 .

[Anthadlas]

I hate Origin, All it seels is DLC and crappy Digital Deluxe edition which cost twice as much and give you a couple of ingame items with no options just to buy the standard game

[Mykel54]

If this requires Origin then i´m not buying it, simple as that. Its your loss EAware, i won´t support a company that cares nothing for what their customers want.

[Ianamus]

I wish they could just have it on steam. Why does EA expect people to like/use Origin when steam does what it does much better?

I don't think Bioware has any say in it though- I'm pretty sure EA as their publisher decides whether or not it uses Origin. It's a shame because I think Origin is a load of **** but it's not the end of the world.

Modifié par EJ107, 05 février 2013 - 07:17 .

[schalafi]

I don't have Origin on DA:O, I called EA and asked if I had to use it for my store purchased game. They said no, I could play without it. I think I have Origin for DA:2, but it doesn't seem to bother anything, so I leave it alone.

I will NEVER buy a game that uses Steam. I had the game, a store purchase, Fallout: New Vegas installed on my pc. Everything was fine until I tried to download the game Allen Wake from Steam. After three failed tries, I asked for a refund, and was informed that Steam/Valve didn't give refunds. I was so angry I had my credit card cancel the payment, and Steam blocked me from being able to play New Vegas. I don't care how many players think Steam is just wonderful, I think it's a money grubbing rip off!

[Sanunes]

People's opinions aren't going to change on Origin or Steam, but to me they are both sides to the same coin.  They both take information from your computer to maintain their "level of service", but because Valve has been doing it for years its okay.

[Wulfram]

Sanunes wrote...

People's opinions aren't going to change on Origin or Steam, but to me they are both sides to the same coin.  They both take information from your computer to maintain their "level of service", but because Valve has been doing it for years its okay.

They're not different in principle, but in practice Steam offers good prices and useful functions, while Origin offers mediocre prices and no useful functions.

[Sanunes]

Wulfram wrote...

Sanunes wrote...

People's opinions aren't going to change on Origin or Steam, but to me they are both sides to the same coin.  They both take information from your computer to maintain their "level of service", but because Valve has been doing it for years its okay.

They're not different in principle, but in practice Steam offers good prices and useful functions, while Origin offers mediocre prices and no useful functions.

The few games that are on both are the same price as far as I have noticed, but Steam does have an advantage with their sales, but that is something that Origin does offer just not as regularly for they don't have the same library.  As far as other services I just use both to buy and manage my games so I can't talk about them.  To me customer support is what drives my choice for the amount of options don't matter if I dislike using the service and with Origin I have been able to correct my issues almost instantly every time with Steam I have to wait days or weeks to get my issue acknowledged.

Edit:

To me there is nothing wrong with prefering one over the either, for people look at things differently.  What I don't understand are the comments that don't seem to have a reasonable arguement, such as Origin being spyware, but Steam isn't.

Modifié par Sanunes, 05 février 2013 - 08:30 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

AlexJK wrote...

Could we agree that the problem here isn't that services such as Origin and Steam keep your game updated, but that those updates can include undesirable feature changes instead of just bug fixes?

Even a bug fix could be an undesirable feature change.

Medieval II Total War had a feature/bug where besieging armies would hold their lines until attacked.  Sallying forth and flanking them with siege engines allowed the defending army to cripple the attacking force with little or no risk.

I liked that feature, because I didn't like breaking sieges.  Then it was "fixed" in a patch, and the game was suddenly less fun for me.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I encourage you to stand by your convictions, especially for a luxury good like video games.

Excellent advice.

[legion999]

Sorry OP, EA will likely force Origin.

I find it sad that I'm waxing nostalgia for a time I don't even have memories of. Bloody DRM.

[Fugiz]

Dont beg, we are entitled by virtue of...(fill blank with phrase that makes you feel powerful and good about yourself)!!!

Demand that that untrusted resource-hogging spyware Origin be replaced by the equally explotative resource-hogging but trusted spyware Steam.

[Gatt9]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

Why do people dislike Origin?
Why do people love Steam?

Aren't they the same?

Yes. They are.

EA is popular to hate. Valve is popular to gush over.

Now, in all honesty, Valve has had their for many years so it is more polished. But that isn't the issue to most: it's that it's EA.

Not they aren't.  Not even remotely close.

Origin started out with the premise that EA was going to scan every file on your computer,  and every file on any device you might connect to your computer,  transmit the data back to EA,  and do something with it.  With no option to opt out.

Technically speaking,  the new EULA still gives them that right,  as the last time I read it they just started using the word "Media",  which in the IT world actually means all of your storage devices.

Then on release there was significant evidence that even though EA claimed to have changed things,  it did it anyways,  and may have even been doing it before you agreed to allow it.

Then there were the numerous instances of EA banning people from all of their games for forum infractions,  and the recent Simcity Demo EULA outright gave them the right to ban you from all of your games if you so much as heard about a bug and didn't report it to them immediately.

Then EA can also opt to discontinue any game at any time,  and you lose your ability to play,  unlike Steam.

Steam and Origins are nothing alike. 

I'd also dearly love to see real usage numbers,  especially concurrent PC users,  because I strongly suspect EA's padded the heck out of their numbers.  From what I've read,  it looks like a forum account is counted even if you've never downloaded the client,  and it looks like Console gamers are counted even though they don't use the client either.