213 réponses à ce sujet

[Hyperglide]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Hyperglide wrote...
The TS asked for a build I gave him one that is very good and can top a leaderboard and you have to be a condescending ass about it.  Not cool man.  

Well.. let's take a look at what you wrote: 

Go Cobra on the HML b/c it's low-mid tier mobs...

Uhh... the Hydra evolution already does that, and it does it much more consistently. You're limiting yourself to the max amount of targets you can stagger. It's dumb. Do I even need to mention the tracking?

Armor Damage is useless at you won't be killing bosses with the HML.   

Armor damage is useless vs Dragoons/Pyros/Bombers/Bosses huh? Have you ever even specced into Armor Damage? It's extremely useful... the damage increase is very noticeable. I play alot of Plat so I see these units regularly, not just here and there. Now for the best part...

Hydras are pretty useless on anything other than husks/abominations above Silver. MFG's are meh.

This is the comment that brought about the condescending tone. This is just a bunch of stupid BS. Hydras are PLENTY useful on all difficulties, they kill alot more things than husks/abominations.. and they do it on all difficulties. What are you expecting them to do... fully shield strip a Gold Hunter? They already shot him WHILE he was cloaked and gave you a heads up that your being closed in on.

Then... there's the MFG comment. Look... I don't spec into them, but MFGs are downright brutal. Their sheer damage output cannot be denied. They are MUCH more than meh...

Basically... I don't think you know what you're talking about.

I've put 514 hours into this game and have put in my time I think I know what I'm talking about.  Why would you care about Armor damage on a power that shoots almost 4 seconds apart when you can kill more trash mobs faster by about 1 seconds with the refire evo?  That's 4 missiles for every 3 missiles fired in 12 seconds.

If you are relying on HML to kill Dragoons/Bombers/Ravagers you're doing it wrong.  I am not saying that it's useless but I'd rather have a faster HML that will kill units faster than have the chance to kill an armored mid tier unit.  

Way to contradict yourself on the MFG's  You sayd they are downright brutal then totally contradict yourself right after but saying their sheer damage output cannot be denied.  Way to sugar coat it.  <_<  MFG's are inaccurate do average damage and aren't reliable.  They are basically the equivalent of carpet bombing.  But all they are really good for is staggering a spawn points.   I'd rather just use a Cobra on it at that point.  

Hydra's only have force of approximately 300 Newtons when not specc'ed into power damage with the Destroyer.  That is not enough to stagger Mauraders, Pyros and Hunters on Gold.  Also I'd rather have one missile that fires faster and does almost 3 times as much damage then 3 that do paltry damage and cannot stagger consistently.  

So they don't have a good tracking system.  Maybe you aren't in the right area or proximity to use Cobras?  On certain maps and proxmity they are deadly.   

Modifié par Hyperglide, 04 février 2013 - 11:03 .

[Silvair]

Hyperglide wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

Hyperglide wrote...
The TS asked for a build I gave him one that is very good and can top a leaderboard and you have to be a condescending ass about it.  Not cool man.  

Well.. let's take a look at what you wrote: 

Go Cobra on the HML b/c it's low-mid tier mobs...

Uhh... the Hydra evolution already does that, and it does it much more consistently. You're limiting yourself to the max amount of targets you can stagger. It's dumb. Do I even need to mention the tracking?

Armor Damage is useless at you won't be killing bosses with the HML.   

Armor damage is useless vs Dragoons/Pyros/Bombers/Bosses huh? Have you ever even specced into Armor Damage? It's extremely useful... the damage increase is very noticeable. I play alot of Plat so I see these units regularly, not just here and there. Now for the best part...

Hydras are pretty useless on anything other than husks/abominations above Silver. MFG's are meh.

This is the comment that brought about the condescending tone. This is just a bunch of stupid BS. Hydras are PLENTY useful on all difficulties, they kill alot more things than husks/abominations.. and they do it on all difficulties. What are you expecting them to do... fully shield strip a Gold Hunter? They already shot him WHILE he was cloaked and gave you a heads up that your being closed in on.

Then... there's the MFG comment. Look... I don't spec into them, but MFGs are downright brutal. Their sheer damage output cannot be denied. They are MUCH more than meh...

Basically... I don't think you know what you're talking about.

I've put 514 hours into this game and have put in my time I think I know what I'm talking about.  Why would you care about Armor damage on a power that shoots almost 4 seconds apart when you can kill more trash mobs faster by about 1 seconds with the refire evo?  That's 4 missiles for every 3 missiles fired in 12 seconds.

If you are relying on HML to kill Dragoons/Bombers/Ravagers you're doing it wrong.  I am not saying that it's useless but I'd rather have a faster HML that will kill units faster than have the chance to kill an armored mid tier unit.  

Way to contradict yourself on the MFG's  You sayd they are downright brutal then totally contradict yourself right after but saying their sheer damage output cannot be denied.  Way to sugar coat it.  <_<  MFG's are inaccurate do average damage and aren't reliable.  They are basically the equivalent of carpet bombing.  But all they are really good for is staggering a spawn points.   I'd rather just use a Cobra on it at that point.  

Hydra's only have force of approximately 300 Newtons when not specc'ed into power damage with the Destroyer.  That is not enough to stagger Mauraders, Pyros and Hunters on Gold.  Also I'd rather have one missile that fires faster and does almost 3 times as much damage then 3 that do paltry damage and cannot stagger consistently.  

So they don't have a good tracking system.  Maybe you aren't in the right area or proximity to use Cobras?  On certain maps and proxmity they are deadly.   

So again, if I'm going Cobra, how many of the Force/Power damage evos should I be taking in both HML and passive trees?

As in, do I need the 40% bonus if i'm going cobra, or reduce shield penalty?  I know the answer for Hydra but its COBRA i'm trying to figure out.

Do I need Armor Piercing with Cobra over recharge time?

for Battlesuit, do I need the extra 25% power/force bonuses, or should I just take weapon damage from that tree?

Modifié par Silvair, 04 février 2013 - 11:25 .

[megabeast37215]

Hyperglide wrote...
I've put 514 hours into this game and have put in my time I think I know what I'm talking about.  

Why would you care about Armor damage on a power that shoots almost 4 seconds apart when you can kill more trash mobs faster by about 1 seconds with the refire evo?  That's 4 missiles for every 3 missiles fired in 12 seconds.

If you are relying on HML to kill Dragoons/Bombers/Ravagers you're doing it wrong.  I am not saying that it's useless but I'd rather have a faster HML that will kill units faster than have the chance to kill an armored mid tier unit.  

Way to contradict yourself on the MFG's  You sayd they are downright brutal then totally contradict yourself right after but saying their sheer damage output cannot be denied.  Way to sugar coat it.  <_<  MFG's are inaccurate do average damage and aren't reliable.  They are basically the equivalent of carpet bombing.  But all they are really good for is staggering a spawn points.   I'd rather just use a Cobra on it at that point.  

Hydra's only have force of approximately 300 Newtons when not specc'ed into power damage with the Destroyer.  That is not enough to stagger Mauraders, Pyros and Hunters on Gold.  Also I'd rather have one missile that fires faster and does almost 3 times as much damage then 3 that do paltry damage and cannot stagger consistently.  

So they don't have a good tracking system.  Maybe you aren't in the right area or proximity to use Cobras?  On certain maps and proxmity they are deadly.   

I'm at a little under 1400hrs on this account... not to mention the 100hrs I put on my friends account, and about 200hrs on my kids account. I too... know what I'm talking about.  I even got my elitist DB card from Ashen Earth....

Your first comment is about why take armor over refire. There are alot of reasons.. I'll list them:
When you're blasting a scrambling Dragoon in the face and are having trouble tracking him, Hydras will finish him. When you're shooting a bomber and he does his little side dodge b/c someone threw a power at him.. Hydras will finish him. When you put your weapon in the Pyros face at point blank range, often times.. the Hydras will finish him. When you have a brute bearing down on you, you start unloading on him.. he charges, the hydras often give you enough spike damage to kill him before or right after he hits you. When your PPR runs out of ammo, Hydras will be able to take that last little bit of damage off a boss. It has alot more in-game use than how it sounds on paper. I tried it once after ALWAYS speccing for refire time... and I never went back. Refire time often times fires too many missiles... everytime they fire it shakes the screen. I'd rather have less frequent, but better missiles firing than missile spam. Don't act like the difference in time is game-breakingly long.. it's 3/4 of a second.

When I said MFGs are brutal... I meant that as a compliment. Their damage output is brutally vicious to the enemy. They're also good for more than staggering spawns... they're good at completely eliminating them.

I don't know where you got your stagger numbers... but if I take Force&Damage in HML, and rank 5 Power Damage in the passive... it staggers everything that's not a boss. This includes the enemies you listed.

Why should I put myself in the right map/distance/etc. to make the Cobra missile work? It should already work on its own... but it doesn't. The Hydras hit every single time for me... the Cobra... it hits... walls.

[Silvair]

Anyone? I'm going Cobra this time to test out whether its better at close range than Hydras, so i'm trying to figure out if I should go for all the force/power damage bonuses, or get all the other bonuses like more shields, weapon damage, etc.

Also...recharge or armor piercing for a COBRA.

Everyone's responses have been with the Hydra in mind, but i'm trying to gauge both against each other, hence why i'm going cobra this build when i've always been hydra before.

[Pyroninja42]

Guys, I found the perfect Destroyer build.

[megabeast37215]

Silvair wrote...

Anyone? I'm going Cobra this time to test out whether its better at close range than Hydras, so i'm trying to figure out if I should go for all the force/power damage bonuses, or get all the other bonuses like more shields, weapon damage, etc.

Also...recharge or armor piercing for a COBRA.

Everyone's responses have been with the Hydra in mind, but i'm trying to gauge both against each other, hence why i'm going cobra this build when i've always been hydra before.

Just spec it however you want... you're probably going to be disappointed. There's a reason the Hydras are so much more popular... because we've all traveled this path before and came to relatively similar conclusions.

You don't need AP for Cobra. If you're not going to use consumables, take the shield penalty reduction. Always take weapon damage at rank 4 of the passive...

[Felis Menari]

Silvair wrote...

Okay so the main argument for Hydra over Cobra being that it fires three to compensate for bad tracking.

Main argument for Cobra being the increased damage and force.

Well at point blank the tracking shouldn't matter too much....should it?

Also, it says with Hydra, it DECREASES the payload of each missile by 25%, but in the damage listing, it still sits there at what it was. So do the hydras NOT do less damage per missile than a regular Hawk, like they say they do?

And if I'm going Cobra, exactly how many of the power damage/force bonuses should I be getting?

With Hydras, I need to hit 390 force/damage in order to be able to stagger enemies reliably on higher difficulties. So if you're at or above those numbers with Cobras you'll be fine. As for your question about armor piercing, it will only be useful with highly damaging Hydras. Since Cobras do much less damage than a full Hydra salvo, they will also benefit much less from the armor piercing evo since it doesn't help at all with staggering armored enemies.

Modifié par Felis Menari, 04 février 2013 - 11:57 .

[Silvair]

Felis Menari wrote...

Silvair wrote...

Okay so the main argument for Hydra over Cobra being that it fires three to compensate for bad tracking.

Main argument for Cobra being the increased damage and force.

Well at point blank the tracking shouldn't matter too much....should it?

Also, it says with Hydra, it DECREASES the payload of each missile by 25%, but in the damage listing, it still sits there at what it was. So do the hydras NOT do less damage per missile than a regular Hawk, like they say they do?

And if I'm going Cobra, exactly how many of the power damage/force bonuses should I be getting?

With Hydras, I need to hit 390 force/damage in order to be able to stagger enemies reliably on higher difficulties. So if you're at or above those numbers with Cobras you'll be fine.

Regular enemies or bosses?

My first build an atlas' missile couldn't stagger me, but mine could stagger it, and I LOVED that.  Just don't remember what that build was lol.

Or if going overkill with force beyond that will make any difference.

[StrawHatMoose]

The only important number you need to know is phantoms: 1000N for gold/platinum.

[Felis Menari]

Silvair wrote...

Felis Menari wrote...

Silvair wrote...

Okay so the main argument for Hydra over Cobra being that it fires three to compensate for bad tracking.

Main argument for Cobra being the increased damage and force.

Well at point blank the tracking shouldn't matter too much....should it?

Also, it says with Hydra, it DECREASES the payload of each missile by 25%, but in the damage listing, it still sits there at what it was. So do the hydras NOT do less damage per missile than a regular Hawk, like they say they do?

And if I'm going Cobra, exactly how many of the power damage/force bonuses should I be getting?

With Hydras, I need to hit 390 force/damage in order to be able to stagger enemies reliably on higher difficulties. So if you're at or above those numbers with Cobras you'll be fine.

Regular enemies or bosses?

My first build an atlas' missile couldn't stagger me, but mine could stagger it, and I LOVED that.  Just don't remember what that build was lol.

Or if going overkill with force beyond that will make any difference.

I think having a higher force value will allow you to stagger bosses more often, but I can't say for certain.

[ryoldschool]

@mega the build in your manifest takes refire at rank 5.

I did try the stronghold gear with 40% extra shields and its noticeably more tanks on gold ( took shield cell armor consumable )

[Pyroninja42]

I'd just like to point out that the single highest force you can get with a Hawk Missile, going with force and damage at 4b and the Cobra Missile, stacked with a Power Amplifier IV and Mental Focuser V, is 774 newtons.

[megabeast37215]

ryoldschool wrote...

@mega the build in your manifest takes refire at rank 5.

I did try the stronghold gear with 40% extra shields and its noticeably more tanks on gold ( took shield cell armor consumable )

I've been back and forth with it. But my preference is to take Armor Damage... thanks for pointing that out.

Until yesterday... I barely have played on my account. I just finished up getting all the rare weapons maxed for my friend (it took about 3 weeks). I specced my friends for Armor Damage I know

[Silvair]

Felis Menari wrote...

Silvair wrote...

Felis Menari wrote...

Silvair wrote...

Okay so the main argument for Hydra over Cobra being that it fires three to compensate for bad tracking.

Main argument for Cobra being the increased damage and force.

Well at point blank the tracking shouldn't matter too much....should it?

Also, it says with Hydra, it DECREASES the payload of each missile by 25%, but in the damage listing, it still sits there at what it was. So do the hydras NOT do less damage per missile than a regular Hawk, like they say they do?

And if I'm going Cobra, exactly how many of the power damage/force bonuses should I be getting?

With Hydras, I need to hit 390 force/damage in order to be able to stagger enemies reliably on higher difficulties. So if you're at or above those numbers with Cobras you'll be fine.

Regular enemies or bosses?

My first build an atlas' missile couldn't stagger me, but mine could stagger it, and I LOVED that.  Just don't remember what that build was lol.

Or if going overkill with force beyond that will make any difference.

I think having a higher force value will allow you to stagger bosses more often, but I can't say for certain.

More often?  As in, its only a chance to stagger, or what?

[megabeast37215]

StrawHatMoose wrote...

The only important number you need to know is phantoms: 1000N for gold/platinum.

This is pretty much true.

I would like to know the value for Dragoons too... since staggering them is good for your health.

[megabeast37215]

Silvair wrote...
More often?  As in, its only a chance to stagger, or what?

Boss stagger has a cooldown (around 10 seconds I believe)... you can't chain stagger them like mooks.

[waltervolpatto]

you do not dodge...

1) you want DPS? --> damage
2) you feel not so sure of your ability? shield

[Silvair]

megabeast37215 wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

@mega the build in your manifest takes refire at rank 5.

I did try the stronghold gear with 40% extra shields and its noticeably more tanks on gold ( took shield cell armor consumable )

I've been back and forth with it. But my preference is to take Armor Damage... thanks for pointing that out.

Until yesterday... I barely have played on my account. I just finished up getting all the rare weapons maxed for my friend (it took about 3 weeks). I specced my friends for Armor Damage I know

So...3 missiles, 270 force and damage each, vs 1 missile doing 754 damage.

3 hydras hitting 1 target would do a little over 800 damage, around there.  But its extremely rare to ever get all three missiles to hit one target, so...not sure if that's even worth counting.  So it seems to come down more to whether I want to do 754 to one target at a time, or 540 to one target occasionally while doing 270 to 3 different targets most of the time.

With THAT in mind...Armor Piercing...recharge...or do you think that 1 second difference doesn't really matter?

[ryoldschool]

megabeast37215 wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

@mega the build in your manifest takes refire at rank 5.

I did try the stronghold gear with 40% extra shields and its noticeably more tanks on gold ( took shield cell armor consumable )

I've been back and forth with it. But my preference is to take Armor Damage... thanks for pointing that out.

Until yesterday... I barely have played on my account. I just finished up getting all the rare weapons maxed for my friend (it took about 3 weeks). I specced my friends for Armor Damage I know

lol, ok, I speced my destroyer based on your build - another respec card will get used...

[Silvair]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Silvair wrote...
More often?  As in, its only a chance to stagger, or what?

Boss stagger has a cooldown (around 10 seconds I believe)... you can't chain stagger them like mooks.

Did not know that...so then i'd more want straight up damage when dealing with bosses, rather than refire time for staggering.

[megabeast37215]

Silvair wrote...

So...3 missiles, 270 force and damage each, vs 1 missile doing 754 damage.

3 hydras hitting 1 target would do a little over 800 damage, around there.  But its extremely rare to ever get all three missiles to hit one target, so...not sure if that's even worth counting.  So it seems to come down more to whether I want to do 754 to one target at a time, or 540 to one target occasionally while doing 270 to 3 different targets most of the time.

With THAT in mind...Armor Piercing...recharge...or do you think that 1 second difference doesn't really matter?

You're way too absorbed with the damage values. It's a staggering power... the damage output is just bonus. Just make sure it can stagger everything that can be staggered and you're good.

I do not think the 1 second difference matters much. I do notice it... but it's nothing major.

Do you know how to aim the Missile Launcher? You can actually control it's targetting by putting the power targetting brackets on the enemy you wish them to shoot. If you start aiming it... you will have less misses (because the flight paths will be simpler).

[megabeast37215]

ryoldschool wrote...
lol, ok, I speced my destroyer based on your build - another respec card will get used...

Sorry about that

I feel bad knowing I wasted someone's UR respec card... sometimes those things cost a million credits to get just one...

[megabeast37215]

Silvair wrote...

so then i'd more want straight up damage when dealing with bosses, rather than refire time for staggering.

The HML is pretty much a non-factor when dealing with bosses... the greatest benefit it will give you in this example is staggering nearby mooks and stopping them from shooting you... while you deal with the boss.

[Pyroninja42]

And apparently, it's possible to get enough force to stagger a phantom with Hydra Missiles.

Modifié par Pyroninja42, 05 février 2013 - 12:22 .

[Silvair]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Silvair wrote...

So...3 missiles, 270 force and damage each, vs 1 missile doing 754 damage.

3 hydras hitting 1 target would do a little over 800 damage, around there.  But its extremely rare to ever get all three missiles to hit one target, so...not sure if that's even worth counting.  So it seems to come down more to whether I want to do 754 to one target at a time, or 540 to one target occasionally while doing 270 to 3 different targets most of the time.

With THAT in mind...Armor Piercing...recharge...or do you think that 1 second difference doesn't really matter?

You're way too absorbed with the damage values. It's a staggering power... the damage output is just bonus. Just make sure it can stagger everything that can be staggered and you're good.

I do not think the 1 second difference matters much. I do notice it... but it's nothing major.

Do you know how to aim the Missile Launcher? You can actually control it's targetting by putting the power targetting brackets on the enemy you wish them to shoot. If you start aiming it... you will have less misses (because the flight paths will be simpler).

Are you saying the brackets in Devastator Mode or the regular aiming reticle?